log☇︎
99600+ entries in 0.715s
phf: you have a changing subtrate, changing interfaces. you can hot iron parts while it's at a manageable size and localized, but at some point you start dealing with systemd type situation where the tendrils are inside either the code that you use OR inside the subtrate/interfaces part (i.e. connection to outside world)
phf: he forked and maintained his own mule-less emacs, wrote i believe a unicode based i18n module for it, etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 03:45 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455044 << i don't comprehend how this can even be a thing.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 23:01 phf: freedesktop strategy is to create an abstraction layer on top of base tools that makes things "simpler", and then transparently switch the base. in this case value of gtk & sdl to wreckers is that they both operate on wayland already. sdl seems somewhat sane but i wouldn't be surprised if gnome deprecates their X support at some point
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455256 << http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450737 same strategies in a scope of a single codebase. naggum came up not for his later escapades (i don't know much about that) but because of his early attempts to fight a braindead internationalization module "MULE" ☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: punkman: i will note that phuctoring wasn't even ~happening~ yet, it was only filling the tank and running heuristics on keys
asciilifeform: shinohai: the one problem is that i don't have physical control of whole motherfucking net.
asciilifeform: i will prolly wind up putting it ~in my house~ only to start suffering from mysterious daily fiber cuts.
asciilifeform: i have nfi what it would take to keep this thing from getting unplugged.
mircea_popescu: i estimate the log coudl do with some
mircea_popescu: yes i reckon if they manage this, pulling themselves into orbit can't be far behind
mircea_popescu: and yet inexplicably i'm sure this will son be was already found-ed and documented by research that nevertheless fails to exist etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-21 16:33 mircea_popescu: in other news i see phuctor numbers marching steadily up, 440/562 by now ?
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 02:02 asciilifeform: (last i recall mircea_popescu gave somewhere close to 1/10th of a damn, he is to be commended for this)
mircea_popescu: i also do not credit the "dictatorial education -> no diaries" argument from experience. there are NO BETTER jokes than the ro/ru/etc jokes from that time.
trinque: asciilifeform: sure, and your blog is a big part of why I ended up interested enough to hang around
asciilifeform: as i had to excavate, e.g., 'Refal'.
trinque: in what I'd say is a rather despotic society
trinque: I ended up writing CL because I got drunk at ben_vulpes' shop one night; knew of it but hadn't bothered with it yet.
mircea_popescu: he is discussing and i quote " Philosophers, writers, artists, even scientists"
asciilifeform: and had to excavate diligently to turn up the necessary materials, i have 0 meatwot connection to the folks who built'em.
asciilifeform: i for instance found out that lispm even existed by sheer stroke of luck
mircea_popescu: so blair would like an audience. fine. good. i didn't wet my bed as a child.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't credit his "man needs the herd" nonsense worth halfpence.
asciilifeform: rmans really got to England my acquaintance of the Cafe Royal would soon have found his painting deteriorating, even if the Gestapo had let him alone. And when the lid is taken off Europe, I believe one of the things that will surprise us will be to find how little worthwhile writing of any kind -- even such things as diaries, for instance -- has been produced in secret under the dictators.' ☟︎
asciilifeform: Why is this idea false? I pass over the fact that modern dictatorships don't, in fact, leave the loopholes that the old-fashioned despotisms did; and also the probable weakening of the desire for intellectual liberty owing to totalitarian methods of education. The greatest mistake is to imagine that the human being is an autonomous individual. The secret freedom which you can supposedly enjoy under a despotic government is nonsense,
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 01:28 phf: i.e. my cmucl runs on a clearly compromised intel cpu and can even do interesting things. imagine future(tm) where only way to run cmucl is by crosscompiling into x86 emulator inside your web browser ;]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455101 << i have a difficult to explain and perhaps dubious proof as to why this imagined future is not a possible future. ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: by defensible i mean, in terms of fiction.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah it's a kinda usable/powerful metaphor to work on i thought
mircea_popescu: i laid down to sleep and instead had this vision of you know, dreamers fucking around on reddit while suspended in vats,
asciilifeform: quite good, i'd love moar.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this brings to mind tales of african throwbacks who tried to use condom ~after the fact~ and genuinely believed, i'm told, that it will save them from syphilis/aids/etc
mircea_popescu: i suspect that's part of propaganda ministry orders.
asciilifeform: same reason every policy i ever took ruled out nuke war
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i meant dinosaur-wiping kind.
mircea_popescu: mats i'm kinda typical eastern european dude.
mats: i struggle to determine ethnic origins through facial features in p much all not-asian races
mircea_popescu: if i tripped, fell, and set boston on fire it'd have probably paid.
mircea_popescu: and by trims i mean a list. civil judgements for accidents, including hunting! included.
mircea_popescu: and re the fine print... there's a lot of suckers and retail in there. last i went to the states, i got full insurance, from lloyds of london no less. for, if memory serves, #159.
asciilifeform: anyway i'm not convinced that ~anyone actually ~chooses~ to become a naggum
asciilifeform: trinque: i did not say it was a mega-promising career choice.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again i had this, and it was a real laugh, read the fine print sometime.
asciilifeform: i had this, it was a joke
mircea_popescu: i always thought it was the eyes
mircea_popescu: look, the dilemma here isn't "either i be eunuch or else i go fight for odin as a berserker"
mircea_popescu: "i didn't expect solid items to be where the atmosphere goes"
mircea_popescu: how do you perceive what he did (hurr durr i'm going to be a business) is different from average tardstalk forumite (hurr durr i'm going to be an exchange) ?
asciilifeform: i.e. what he 'could have earned'
asciilifeform: the one option was, i suppose, to go stack.
mircea_popescu: i admit, and admitted above.
mircea_popescu: i meant us specifically.
asciilifeform: and yeah i recall, in logz, 'whichever hungry london barrister buys'
mircea_popescu: i've so far netted more money than the average us citizen's net worth out of simply selling cases.
mircea_popescu: but in general - not that i expect this to be practically useful to anyone, as it isn't without the rest of the tools involved - the matter hinges on that fine thin line when liability can be personally attached. once you can start going after individuals rather than their precious "government" construct in the abstract, they pop like watermelons in august.
mircea_popescu: [yes, i've beaten tax authorities into the dirt on multiple occasions]
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 00:49 phf: naggum tried to maintain his own versions of everything (i.e. burn it out with hot irons) and...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455048 << i think naggum was an incredibly poorly managed project. i wouldn't think his experience informative, for anything ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 00:46 phf: oh i understand. it's like the cl mode. they've been fighting cl mode for years, without success, because it's hellof useful. not only has cl mode now been replaced with cl-lib which prefixes ~everything~ with cl- (cl-first, cl-defstruct, cl-fuck-your-mother) but they also disabled highlight of all the cl forms. so cl-defstruct highlights, defstruct doesn't. to discourage the sins of the flesh, y'see.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455044 << i don't comprehend how this can even be a thing. ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: he just hates me because i'm beautiful.
mircea_popescu: mats> anglos go rite to hell, etc << but i'm not anglo ?!
BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/pXIE2y6.jpg
phf: ok, i'm going to sleep. this was an entertaining conversation, even if a recap of many past threads
asciilifeform: there is also the advantage i described earlier, re 'specificity of diddling'
asciilifeform: and i have no reasonable expectation that anyone could recoup the costs.
asciilifeform: (modern vendors succumb to the temptation to put a great many special-purpose parts in fpga, e.g., multipliers, even whole cpu cores, etc. i am specifically not talking about their rubbish.)
asciilifeform: also 'greenarray' i will nitpick is not an fpga
phf: for example i don't quite grok why can't press low density vlsi at home. seems like all or nothing kind of proposition.
asciilifeform: i.e. there is no effective way to subtly sabotage the thing if you do not know the victim's intended circuit layout.
phf: i'm very vague on the whole process, i'll have to read up on it
asciilifeform: if i could make one thing, on a traditional si process, it would be an fpga.
asciilifeform: (last i recall mircea_popescu gave somewhere close to 1/10th of a damn, he is to be commended for this) ☟︎
asciilifeform: but i did not - to date - get far.
asciilifeform: for a while i got into the question of cupric oxide and other exotic semiconductor
asciilifeform: the protocol was documented, i sat down, started doing it
asciilifeform: used, as i understand, in critical infrastructure which runs on 1980s minis.
asciilifeform: i have nfi how well it worx.
asciilifeform: other than a tall (shrinking, as i understand, today - to nothing) pile of drives.
phf: i know some folk who can restore 3620 drives, but's that's because that's what they do. i'll ask them what their solutions are at the moment
asciilifeform: so i could get rid of the brick and replace with $1 sd card.
asciilifeform: i actually spent the first ~6 mo. after i bought the lisp machine, trying to rig up, with fpga, a mechanism to read the fucking disk ☟︎
asciilifeform: (though schmidt did sell me an ~empty shell~ of a tape drive, in case i can ever locate the drive raw !)
asciilifeform: contents can only be loaded onto it from tape, and i have neither the tape, nor the tape drive !
asciilifeform: even if i find identical disk elsewhere
asciilifeform: i haven't switched the thing on in some years
asciilifeform: i went to the house, where this was done
phf: i didn't realize it until you said it, and it's fucking hilarious, because i'd mock the strategy elsewhere
phf: i.e. my cmucl runs on a clearly compromised intel cpu and can even do interesting things. imagine future(tm) where only way to run cmucl is by crosscompiling into x86 emulator inside your web browser ;] ☟︎
phf: i'm more concerned that there's very little ground left that's unpolluted on which i can build a house or possibly raise a barn with other people
phf: i'm ok that there exists a superior tool that solves a class of problems. kind of like right now paying for intellij ensures that i can do a certain paid work in the most effective way available. perhaps if i have another interesting lisp project, i'll call alegro people again, etc.
asciilifeform: i know of no even vaguely similar item elsewhere.
asciilifeform: actually carrying the exercise to a usable-to-other-people, well-documented conclusion is somewhere Nth on the list of things i would do if i had mircea_popescuesque levels of free time
phf: well, it reveals that core infrastructure is rotten, i assume "few proggies" is what's needed on your battlestation, because on a laptop i'm still for example missing power management tooling. even shell script based stuff depends on dbus or somesuch
phf: naggum tried to maintain his own versions of everything (i.e. burn it out with hot irons) and... ☟︎
phf: there's no solution to this kind of shit outside of "i use cmucl with emacs 19 and ilisp" or whatever, which is programmer's equivalent of mp's 2005 thinkpads
phf: oh i understand. it's like the cl mode. they've been fighting cl mode for years, without success, because it's hellof useful. not only has cl mode now been replaced with cl-lib which prefixes ~everything~ with cl- (cl-first, cl-defstruct, cl-fuck-your-mother) but they also disabled highlight of all the cl forms. so cl-defstruct highlights, defstruct doesn't. to discourage the sins of the flesh, y'see. ☟︎
asciilifeform: just as i would have never even known about 'flycheck' if i didn't come across a broken (since fixed, by hand) macos emacs.
asciilifeform: the case of flycheck was especially instructive because, near as i could tell, the thing provided ZERO advantage over flymake