tmsr - Search: i

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phf: i'm pretty sure that's the one with genera heritage, so as close to the mothership

gabriel_laddel: nfi - it has a bunch of C, so I skipped it

asciilifeform: phf: i dun recall anything franz released ever working properly with anything other than allegro

phf: gabriel_laddel: also have you looked at CLIM source code that i think allegro people have released

gabriel_laddel: phf: I did - it requires more work than it is worth atm

gabriel_laddel: Oh yeah, I'm /very/ much on board with that.

gabriel_laddel: Even unpacking and then repackaging it causes this - so must be that I have two versions of cpio installed or some nonsense..

gabriel_laddel: I can unpack the thing, inspect & modify the tree, but when repacking it and writing it to the USB == kernel panic

gabriel_laddel: I looked into it previously, and it seemed that simply modifying the working initramfs I have now would be much faster - but no such luck yet.

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i suggest taking my buildroot configs as example

yangwao: and I might found another in JOSE, in X25519.. but looks its still in rfc draft thing

yangwao: NaCl is ok (hope), I think, there just problems in libsodium, ehm this one https://github.com/jedisct1/libsodium

mircea_popescu: "Saluteremo il signor padrone per il male che ci ha fatto che ci ha sempre maltrattato fino all'ultimo momen' Saluteremo il signor padrone con la so' risera neta pochi soldi in la cassetta e i debit da pagar..."

trinque: I'm going to have to watch this

a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 16:45 ben_vulpes: in other OTHER OTHER news, i upgraded this laptop to 10.11 and now the second mini hdmi port doesn't work

mircea_popescu: im just sad i don't have a 9gag account.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i specifically disclaim any relation to the crap. either part of it.

ben_vulpes: most expensive x11 terminal i ever seen.

thestringpuller: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-30#1493506 << oh god. this is my life. maybe I should ask asciilifeform how long until I succumb to radiation poisoning ☝︎

ben_vulpes: in other OTHER OTHER news, i upgraded this laptop to 10.11 and now the second mini hdmi port doesn't work ☟︎

ben_vulpes: "i heard that if people bop you on your head, gold coins come out of your butt" ok i died

mircea_popescu: you know, i'm mildly surprised webcam companies haven't built the arcade scroller irl yet. you could have this special obstacle course built, have the camhos try and complete it, people could pay to watch, bet on whether they manage or not...

mod6: i fucking hate java btw

asciilifeform: i thought it was supposed to coincide with the halfocalypse

asciilifeform: 'i didn't shoot him in the head to kill, just gave his brains CHOICE OF WHERE TO GO!111'

mircea_popescu: this, needless to say, i hope, ISN'T HOW YOU FUCKING WRITE. code or anything else.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so do i! but it dun always fire.

mircea_popescu: jesus i'm having a bad memory day.

asciilifeform: i disagree - they are excellent examples - along with, e.g., mr mold - of failed autoappendectomies

mircea_popescu: anyway, back to phf 's thing : i frankly dun think rms/frf/etc are relevant here, not anymore than aunt molly's mole is relevant in a discussion of dermatology.

a111: Logged on 2014-10-21 01:30 asciilifeform: 'As progressively dumber programmers build progressively more complex systems we will see more of this kind of attempt to paper over coding mistakes with lawyers, sanctions, policies, and laws. Hollywood and the RIAA are usually the most successful at getting the government to do their bidding. Thus I predict that one day Disney will have a Web site where you can buy access to any of their movies. Because

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can't find the one with "buy computing" like old dudes/church wanted to "buy women". darn.

mircea_popescu: so in general, i expect the notion of "code secrecy" to be as nonsensical today as when stallman was a wee tyke getting started on other people's emacs.

asciilifeform: it isn't simply about 'he's my chum, i will lend him my pistol, and i trust that he will only shoot coke cans'

trinque: and I have 0% doubt that he will do that

trinque: I gave ben_vulpes an OS image a while back, asked that he use it internally only

trinque: but I don't want to sign onto a talmudic interpretation of WoT-o-tronics, either generally or in this instance

trinque: phf: I see software being "shared" in such a personal way that you should expect me to ask you directly whether I can give to my L1, whether I can post sauce on www, so on

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dealt with them for a living.

asciilifeform: the way i see it, withholding source for a safety-critical mechanism like bitcoin client is a hostile act - unambiguously poisonous offering.

mircea_popescu: i dunno, meteorite fell from sky, seems to work a certain way, gotta look what it does now.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i supppse maybe as a black box item, i dunno.

phf: trinque: nah, not ~entire~ wot and not forever. but let's say i give you code under wotgpl, it means that the code has certain propagation properties within wot, and i don't have to negrate you if you abide by a certain set of pre-discussed rules

trinque: suitable for some, but I'm not going to sign it.

asciilifeform: which is why i see deliberate obfuscation as an admission of guilt

mircea_popescu: sure, i run coherence checks on all data, such as recent trilema article is testament.

asciilifeform: quite often i ~will~ do the measurements. by hand.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if said data is obfuscated against me, i regard it as an attack.

trinque: phf: it's not WoT-tronic if I'm making decisions based on WoT and also this overarching religion about software

asciilifeform: i run other folks' binaries solely for purpose of reversing and exploitation.

asciilifeform: trinque: fact remains, if you think i'm gonna run a binary, ANYONE's binary, for whatever reason, yer smoking dope. ☟︎☟︎

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except i don't see anyone has an implicit freedom allowing him to review other people's notes.

mircea_popescu: phf i don't think stallman, for all his posturing, was muich in the philosophy department. seriously, ima have a special right to use code ? tell you what - have the inalienable freedom to use weapons, in any manner i deem fit, such as against the us president, and to use the penis, and plates of pasta, and napkin scribblings and anything else.

phf: i'm not so much interested in "freedom" aspect of it, but as a way to construct a coherent position on tmsr computing

phf: well, i'm trying to see if this could use this as a glue to tie V and stan's laws of sane computing

asciilifeform: and for some reason i thought that the above was also the one where mircea_popescu had the bit re 'usg tries to claim the ability to delegate the right to use software, as the church claimed the right to delegate use of woman'

mircea_popescu: yeah, that's more of a practical philosophy thing, but i see what you mean.

a111: Logged on 2015-01-30 05:51 mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.

mircea_popescu: take 0 : "agent has agency". i'm not willing to reduce that to this, not just because http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-30#998185 but in general, as a matter of sovereignity. if your ethereum works in this way, there's no "criminal thief" blabla. ☝︎

trinque: phf: my point above is that, if you asked me for sauce I'd provide it for reasons entirely other than philosophy

mircea_popescu: phf i'm game for a full analysis of them if you care to state any. the problem broadly is that they're nonsense as-found.

phf: asciilifeform: erm, yeah, i didn't mean gpl, i meant stallman's code freedoms

mircea_popescu: phf i don't see a problem with gpl per se, but i'm not going to enforce it myself.

asciilifeform: phf: i find myself agreeing with naggum - gpl was a weapon against microshit, and makes very little sense in any other context

phf: wouldn't this sort of statements of philosophical position (i don't know a better term) still be effective among the aristoi? there's that idea that u.s. constitution was written for the privileged classes, and that you had to a) be able to write b) own a pen c) own a piece of paper to participate in voting process. or would gpl still be a bad idea if was restricted to in-wot?

mircea_popescu: now i have rum all over my desk wtf. why's that so funny

mircea_popescu: anyway. i'll concur with you saying that it's one lousy fuck, how about that.

mircea_popescu: i thought god taught through pestilences.

trinque: ^ what determines whether I provide source

mircea_popescu: i don't see value in this. what, there's a universal right to understand ?

asciilifeform: trinque: i was speaking of the missing 'freedom' from stallman's 'freedoms list' - '... to UNDERSTAND'

a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 14:31 asciilifeform: i still say that source availability is a red herring here

phf: and the attitude went from "docs??" to "ha ha i guess reading documentation pays off ha ha" to "let me check the docs"

phf: at least i no longer think that i should just send him to the farm

phf: one dev told me he gets sweaty palms when submitting a pull request, and i'm like "good. gooood"

thestringpuller: it's just part of working with sewage I guess. :(

mircea_popescu: discussing teh principle of the thing moar than the cases i exemplify with.

asciilifeform: i posted all the interesting parts anyway

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in any case, while the value of "bright young fellow wants to learn boyer-moore through checking out phf's code" is there ; i'm not about to push you to publish phuctor code for some vague fetishist love of foss. which i don't have.

phf: thestringpuller: and requires extensive training to undo, for example i make sure all my devs have copies of the documentation for relevant code on their machines, and direct their attention to it whenever i can. you'd be surprised™ how many people don't even know where the docs for their framework etc. are

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 1) nobody of the "background and experience in management experience spawns many years" derps running ethereum built from source, or COULD build from source. i've seen enough of those lolz in eulora to have a pretty close idea ; 2. nobody's asking you to run trinque's shit on your box, so there's a difference here. but 1 and 2 aside, absofuckinglutely wtf. this isn't about tivoization of code.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think on the lowest level complexity actually has a positive perceived value. "check out all the complex shit i <<handle>>". much like kids in the same age bracket / cultural space in africa laud themselves with their voodoo accomplishments.

asciilifeform: all of this being said, if anyone expects me to run something on local box without publishing plausibly-readable source i can build it from, he is smoking dope.

thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: perhaps. but i think its as simple as "adding idiots to something good ruins it". usenet was similar...

asciilifeform: i still say that source availability is a red herring here ☟︎

mircea_popescu: not one bothering to mention that hey, i got inspired by mp, and look, the prediction he made was in fact correct : there WERE more holes. which circumstance clears any possible objection to the whole process being jealousy driven.

mircea_popescu: NOBODY fucking read it. not even the two idiots writing it. then AFTER i publish on trilema, suddenly it's sexy, they get jealous of all the exposure and find various other holes.

thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "copy/paste me but don't ever read me!" << *sigh* In fact this just happened today. Developer tells me, "Hey copy this snipped into the codebase from github". I respond with, "Have you read the code?" They tell me, "Nope. But it works!" So guess who is stuck reading the code...

asciilifeform: there is also a bookcase-sized case law, i will leave it for danielpbarron

mircea_popescu: shinohai kinda why i put this in the open, so people can come up with a good name maybe. ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-30#1493176 << very cheap pet. but i sometimes get it pet treat ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 12:51 mircea_popescu: i want you to research the legal status of a registered church in the us, as well as the practicalities of registering one. this is a serious project, and i expect 100s of hours spent reading up on it. gpgram me about it.

shinohai: I am seriously researching buying some cheap field in India for this purpose

shinohai: lol yeah I actually was going to put it up on bitfunder but naturally got rejected.

mircea_popescu: i want you to research the legal status of a registered church in the us, as well as the practicalities of registering one. this is a serious project, and i expect 100s of hours spent reading up on it. gpgram me about it. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: danielpbarron hey listen, your latest posts inspired me, an' now i have a project for you.

trinque: it's bitching about that. after which I will have a $wot command that pastes the whole thing

trinque: phf: how do I get prin1 (or something more sensible) to barf an sexp with a euro symbol in it?

phf: and THEN i'm going to do wot

phf: and then i want to make search case-insensitive, which turned out to be iffy with boyermoore