log☇︎
87400+ entries in 0.636s
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542439 << so i've done my own digging and asked a few others to dig as well, and i can't figure out what "the code" i'm supposed to have is. grepping for 'footnote' turns up zilch in my copy of mp-wp. throw me a bone here? ☝︎
ben_vulpes: well reeeeallly you want a turbo for that volumetric efficiency
mircea_popescu: anyway, /me was expecting this protest re "buy a tanker", but never heard it.
mircea_popescu: that it may be ; but it's still a two stroke engine (total oil loss, for example)
asciilifeform: it's still a diesel engine.
mircea_popescu: o hey, skank gas. what a great name for a company.
ben_vulpes: the jit economy is in for a shock
ben_vulpes: crane draped over a container ship in progress
asciilifeform: missing a few zeroes ?
asciilifeform: if i'm buying six antimatter bombs from thestringpuller, and nominally they cost 1000btc each but he realizes that he owed me 1000btc of iridium from asteroid, and we settle without creating btc tx, this is honest - but is not a btc transaction.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: 'offchain transaction' is a harmless thing so long as it is not fraudulently presented as 'in bitcoin'.
thestringpuller: well there is a subset of folks who want bigger blocks for reasons you specified (for coffee), but still think physical btc is "good idea"
asciilifeform: they go 'i'm gonna try to make a string of bits that tells me if someone copied it' and end up in same idiot spots as copyrasts making 'copy protection' etc.
asciilifeform: the reason i even started this thread is that there is imho a 'sleep of reason breeding monsters' among folks who partake in 'physical coins' and similar.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it also isn't clear to me why anyone would want to walk around with a paper privkey.
asciilifeform: bitcoin is moved between holders by issuing a tx. attempting any other method, under the guise of 'transacting in bitcoin', is fraudulent of the sender, and idiotic of the receiver.
asciilifeform: it is altogether unclear to me how 'more descriptive' would help. subj is a dead end.
asciilifeform: eh this here's a high-class latrine, with imperial human pigwimminz
mircea_popescu: wait, this was a "basics of hardware reverse engineering" class ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when, e.g., mod6 goes into the forest to teach woman how to shoot a turkey, he presumably does not do it because the individual turkey was important.
mircea_popescu: by a factor of about 500
asciilifeform: but with moar faux 'proof' slathered on (it signs a helloworld with the privkey every time it is switched on, etc.)
asciilifeform: really 'opendime' is a small variation on the tired old 'physical coins' theme.
asciilifeform: fire is not a sham sold under wholly spurious pretense.
asciilifeform: 'Yes. It's like a piggy-bank. You must destroy it to spend the funds. At first that seems expensive and wasteful, but it's a key part of our security model: you can trust a sealed Opendime, and it's obvious when it's been opened.' etc. is a lie. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, to be a consumer means - you get comfortable X, and no possibility to scale it.
asciilifeform: problem begins when it is a $1000 bill.
mircea_popescu: so buyer is getting literally what was promised him : a small USB stick that allows you to spend Bitcoin like a dollar bill.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the protection here is that if indeed this item is to be used "like a dollar bill", then that's protection enough.
asciilifeform: 'Restrictions. You shall not: (a) except as expressly permitted herein, reproduce, duplicate, copy, disclose, sell, resell, sublicense, distribute, assign, transfer, give away, loan, lend, lease, publish, pledge or create a security interest in the Software or use the Software other than in connection with the Product on which it is included; (b) modify, port, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, unbundle, repackage, decompile, disass
asciilifeform: but rather it is a carefully-designed weapon against the buyer, who pays for, aims, and fires it with own hands...
asciilifeform: it is not especially hard to make physically-indistinguishable device where i know privkey in advance before giving the 'uncopyable' item to a chump.
asciilifeform: 'Can I re-seal after breaking the center? No. A permanent change is made inside the flash memory of the processor.' << which i can't remove and replace with identical-looking one, containing same procedure, exactly why...? ☟︎
asciilifeform: 'There are a number of ways to verify the device; first, you can click on a link shown in the index.htm file present on the device. That link includes a signed message, that only an Opendime with access to the private key can generate.' << who wants to buy one of these things and see what the nonces look like. ☟︎
asciilifeform: re: earlier link, https://github.com/opendime/opendime/blob/master/unsealed/advanced/rngverify.py << if you read this, it is trivially obvious that the manufacturer can trivially supply a secret (presumably a pill against their rng) that would allow a user to silently spend the contents of a 'sealed' drive. ~how~ is left as exercise for readers.
mircea_popescu: within a tolerance of o.01%
mircea_popescu: this'd be the exactly counterpart to the very common "mp is in heaven and i am in hell, life is so unfair" ever-so-common approach. "oh look, i thought i too had a blog ; except check out what a proper one actually does!"
asciilifeform: https://opendime.com << moar great promisetronics. 'There is no way to input data as the drive is read-only. Also, a new random nonce is signed each time you power up device. You can also plug/re-plug to get a new nonce and matching signature.' etc.
asciilifeform: phf: then keep a (gensym) thing on the server you can call.
phf: mp's footnotes have a nifty feature, where each footnote is unique over the publishing history. would be hard to do it manually
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it isn't clear that the thing needs to be a plugin
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo, pete_dushenski: recommendations for wp footnote plugin? footnotes-in-footnotes would be a grand feature if any can do that and it's not a mp-wp-footnotes custom job
mircea_popescu: such pravoslavnic folk and they can't find themselves a stable situation.
mircea_popescu: "one day, orlov got indigestion from a pea dish, and died. krilov, hearing such, died too. spiridonov however died all by himself. and his wife fell from the cupboard and also died. and his children drowned in a pond. and his grandmother took to the bottle and started hitchhiking."
adlai hasn't had a ~good~ deed poem in his entire life
trinque hasn't had a good deed poem in a while
asciilifeform: looks like fella got a 1st class barbed wire education.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 15:22 asciilifeform: Framedragger: https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_symbolics << a start
shinohai: add trilema.com to twitter bot and get 250k impressions in a week
mircea_popescu: Framedragger there's this deep pastoral root of his specific flavour ; he sounds in a sense like twain, and like jerome k jerome, and like the arab absurdists.
asciilifeform: (per my estimate of the transistor count, i'd say that a 100% cycle-for-cycle clone could handily sit down in a $100 fpga and leave plenty of room for, e.g., modern colour vga, etc.)
phf: i'm hoping that for my deeds dks will grant me a boon, "i asked 'er for a hair from her head. she gave me three"
asciilifeform: takes up most of a shelf.
asciilifeform: i have the dead tree version, it was given to me as a gift by an old and tired ex-mit fella
phf: Framedragger: alf's archive link ~is~ bitsavers, it's just not like 1 pdf. it's about 200 of them, so you kind of need to narrow it down a bit
phf: Framedragger: entire set of symbolics documents is on the bitsavers, i can track down relevant bits for you, but it'll take a bit, since i was reading it on a lispm
asciilifeform: Framedragger: https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_symbolics << a start ☟︎
Framedragger: phf: is that spec available online somewhere (or, keywords) by any chance? curious to take a peek at some point.. is it published by symbolics?
phf: in related news i finally read genera's defsystem spec and not only does it ~makes sense~ it's also obvious that first takes on c-land defsystems was a pale imitation of original functionality, i.e. слышит звон но не знает где он
phf: indeed, and it's also very idiosyncratic, to the point where i don't think anyone but Fare can work on it. on a whim i switched my system to asdf 1.* (last release before peanut gallery took asdf over) and not surprisingly everything works, ~except~ when project explicitly relies on asdf3 functionality, which is exclusively test hooks, uiop and hardcoded "needs asdf>3" requirements
phf: i think asdf is evil, version 3 is doing some straight up systemd shit. for those who don't know asdf 3 comes with fare's own portability layer called uiop, which in a very systemd agressive and underhanded style is superseding existing utility libraries. ☟︎
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: thanks for reminding me of kharms, that's *one* modern russian writer i've actually read (in .lt), good stuff. recall reading it on a bench in park with friend and a bottle of something strong between us. people smirked at us, i smirked back
Framedragger: # wrapped up in a function so that we have some protection against only getting
mircea_popescu: in sanity, you are supposed to a) be acquainted with functions, objects, structures, etc by name ; and on the grounds of having read and wrote them until they revealed all their secrets, no "we got to second base" bullshit ; b) import them, and them only. which is why "require library" is so fucking idiotic.
mircea_popescu: the concept of "library" as "this collection of primitives" is meta-syntactic, and strictly personal idiomatic. that a bunch of anglotards try this thing where they "all mean nigger in the same sense - and everyone always does!" is just you know, anglotards being anglotards.
trinque driving for a bit, will rejoin thread in ~1hr
trinque: asciilifeform: yeah, and I said a while back I will perhaps sign an implementation of RSA, but *never* a large crypto library
asciilifeform: trinque: a fully vtronic replacement for asdf and quicklisp would rock
deedbot: peterl rated scoopbot 1 << A bot I made
asciilifeform: trinque: read the thread. and, for that matter, the tinyscheme thread. mircea_popescu has a very particular idea of what 'abolish libraries' entails.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542182 << they overlap in that one contains a class ircbot, which is then extended to be a logbot (i.e. one who reads and writes from postgresql) ☝︎
thestringpuller: well salt mine is actually a latrine too. everything pretty much smells like shit when clean latrines all day.
thestringpuller: I was knee deep in a project that used all 3 a couple days ago. I'm still washing off the stench :(
thestringpuller: Also not eating latrine pit, I have to work in it. Not all of us are blessed enough to have kooshy uranium mine job like asciilifeform or mats. As for the type of work >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-23#1488309 << is a good description. ☝︎
asciilifeform: why are you eating in the latrine pit thestringpuller ? you ain't a pig
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: lulzy pinoy campaign. appears to promote the idea that there is such a thing as being successfully double-spent against as a user of actual bitcoin.
thestringpuller: double spending as a service >> http://archive.is/n7rMW << i really wish the VER-ified crowd would stop saying unconfirmed transactions are a yoose case
mircea_popescu: (the guy being impersonated is kinda interesting, a sort of rhodesia.fr)
mircea_popescu: and in other jours de la francophonie news, "Please carefully read. Sorry for the inconveniences it might occur to you, maybe if youЎЇre not interested in this my proposal I will be offering to you now, and again also I will be very sorry if my English writings do not meet your expectationЎЇs, please try to understands my country is officially a French speaking country, but I have to use English language for writing you
mod6: ok, yah. his thing basically figures that you make a new dir and so-forth
mod6: <+asciilifeform> anyway this is not a bug report for mod6 << no worries either way. more than anything, I want to help you use it successfully. :]
phf: asciilifeform: being updated in a sense that we can't have a meaningful v conversation, since your b-t is from 2009, mine is from 2011 and trinque's is from 2016 most likely. all logbot has is a pointer to "cl-log". for all i know tomorrow's version of cl-log is not even going to have b-t in ir
asciilifeform: anyway this is not a bug report for mod6
mod6: i've never even seen his cookbook, but perhaps his doesn't have more than one project in a dir. but indeed, ya, you can do that. even if 'tis ill advised.
mod6: asciilifeform: examine this for a minute: http://dpaste.com/1PZHHA8.txt
phf: (asciilifeform: have you tried reading bordeaux-threads that cl-irc depends on? that thing is nasty. kind of defeats the whole "here's a clean irc bot vpatch" if you're pulling dodgy, constantly changing dependencies)
mircea_popescu: anyway, blessfully there exists this magic librarizing where "kernel" is split from "userland". which can be the border for a while.
asciilifeform: and it wants a gcc when you first build it
asciilifeform: anyway this is a request for trinque .
mircea_popescu: if someone comes up with a way to sort in linear time, you a) READ his way b) UNDERSTAND his way and c) IMPLEMENT it. yourself. that's the golden measure. and ideally you come up with what he came up verbatim. or else you have a discussion on the table!
mircea_popescu: this is not a problem in the constraints presented. "create two copies of this "asdf" platonic solid, place them appropriately, they will be distinct items. and proceed."
mircea_popescu: libraries ; the modern coder's excuse for not reading code. "it's a LIBRARY!!11!!! dude. you don't read that!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as it is i sit on a raft, all day, every day, in ocean of 'things we really shouldn't have to have had'
asciilifeform: i had a great b00k as a kid, where the headsman ends up having to chop own head. i wonder if phf or mircea_popescu remember what it was.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when he finds a bug he goes and hangs himself.
mircea_popescu: they are not mutually dependent on one thing. logbot depends on asdf-logbot ; ircbot depends on asdf-ircbot. these MAY be identical, but the fact that they are identical is a people-knowledge, not a machine knowledge.
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as a "library" ; and there is no such thing as "code reuse". put everything in a directory and build it.
mircea_popescu: because that's the fucking point : for a project to be one project. not two.
mod6: and then, you understood how to do such a thing, even if, ill advised?
mircea_popescu: the fact that you tried to build a badly packaged project (spurious split in two) has ~nothing to do with mod6 's bootstrapping tie-in.