phf: indeed, and it's also very idiosyncratic, to the point where i don't think anyone but Fare can work on it. on a whim i switched my system to asdf 1.* (last release before peanut gallery took asdf over) and not surprisingly everything works, ~except~ when project explicitly relies on asdf3 functionality, which is exclusively test hooks, uiop and hardcoded "needs asdf>3" requirements

phf: i think asdf is evil, version 3 is doing some straight up systemd shit. for those who don't know asdf 3 comes with fare's own portability layer called uiop, which in a very systemd agressive and underhanded style is superseding existing utility libraries. ☟︎

phf: trinque: i was being fanciful. i used most of the ircbot for a111, so had to at least stackoverflow read it ;P

phf: asciilifeform: being updated in a sense that we can't have a meaningful v conversation, since your b-t is from 2009, mine is from 2011 and trinque's is from 2016 most likely. all logbot has is a pointer to "cl-log". for all i know tomorrow's version of cl-log is not even going to have b-t in ir

phf: asciilifeform: i remember when i was talking about asdf, you were saying that the problem has been solved by v. in this case the split exists explicitly because logbot/ircbot are mutually dependant by asdf, but no in any v way

phf: the patches in question, http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot . i actually have no idea how they overlap if at all. ☟︎

phf: i think mod6's v is trying to solve bootstrapping problem, by pretending like it's not one. you have to have v tools, and you also have to have your ~/wot. those are created organically, at which point picking up a tar.gz of vpatches or picking them manually is a nobrainer. but if you're a trb newb, you want all three at the same time, which seems like a subversion of v design. why not just have a v starter kit? you unpack it, you have

phf: i just reinstalled everything, so no rss reader at the moment. missed recent qntra

phf: asciilifeform: we started with a single canonical log though, where kako's testimony was implicitly the word of tmsr. there was some anathem/"A Canticle for Leibowitz" jokes about it, the log files were deeded, etc. while working on btcbase i realized that there can be no canonical log without arbitration, i.e. because of netsplits, lost messages, out of order, clock skews you need a single authority to decide what ultimately goes into ☟︎

phf: in the old definition of log, i.e. illuminated scroll "thus spoke saint alf"

phf: i walked right into that one

phf: i kind of want to believe that dogen wasn't a bore, nor a stickler, but otherwise their goals are unrelated to each other.

phf: i like the one about old women, http://www.harms.ouc.ru/vyvalivayuschiesa-staruhi.html

phf: mircea_popescu: i read nishijima translation, and the guy went out of his way to make it unreadable, but as precise as he could render. i can read japanese grammar, and nishijima's version comes with a lot of kanji annotations. i've checked some of his claims, and they check out as far as it goes.

phf: further obscurantism comes from people who don't see clearly, but in a markov chain thinking relay what they heard before "of course that's how it is, i heard it from joe, and it was tired then, what dogen is actually saying is this flowery shit i pulled out of my ass"

phf: i think it's impressive how he manages to think his way out of nothingness. his baseline is basically 15 year old monks in training, who need to be taught not to shit on their hands, etc. knowledge transfer consists of dialogues about buddha teachings. it's very much the case of grinding lens by hand to study astrophysics

phf: pete_dushenski: there's a lot of vague, mystical takes on dogen, but i think that most of the time he makes very straightforward points, like in the wild fox koan, he just says that everything is bound by cause and effect, and if you think you can have a magic talisman against it, you're going to suffer