log☇︎
81800+ entries in 0.049s
asciilifeform: there is no indication that there ever ~had been~ a 'why'. d00d designs like child picks his nose.
mircea_popescu: ~why~ did it have to change, and ~why~ was it there in the first place then. these gotta be addressed, wtf pseudo-rational process is this.
mircea_popescu: somehow the idiocy of democracy, "we have a new senate" "what was wrong with the old one ?" "huh ?" is supposed to steal our wits with the eyes attached, and leave us believing that "this is how it goes" or something ?
asciilifeform: observe how the unix folx, richie & thompson, also proceeded similarly, doubled down on the 'unix philosophy' in e.g. 'inferno'
mircea_popescu: it's readily suspicious, when the following elements meet : a) a new set is promoted that includes some of the elements of the previous set but b) there's no discussion of why exactly some were left out, in substantial terms of what was wrong with them that reach all the way to the root and c) the author is apparently unaware that the a-b combo is the principal signal of idiocy.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 21:11 mircea_popescu: the necessary correlate to "no, you can't have your lunch and eat it too, just as you couldn't when you asked me earlier, and just as you won't later on", ie, "you won't get the answer you wish to hear no matter how many times you ask", ie, immutably in front of idiocy -- there's not that much to lose, not really, out of public conversation.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform s. strikes as exactly the sort of fellow who;d be trying "the same thing" in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841629 ☝︎
Mocky: gotta earn that gray beard
Mocky: good times... "fun never ends"
asciilifeform: the eulora folx can prolly add to this kunstkammer
asciilifeform: 'this proggy is faux-multithreaded, so of fuckingcourse there's a lock around erry variable toggle' ☟︎
asciilifeform: 'you concated two strings, of course this uses unbounded heap space and frags'
asciilifeform: 'aah you put something in a hash table, why now surprised that it uses half a meg each time, dontchaknow it has to rebalance red-black'
asciilifeform: 'how much memory this uses' 'this q is turing-complete, try asking something else'
asciilifeform: ( naggum had the observation, went like 'brokenness of unix is the brokenness of c , of winblows -- of c++ '
asciilifeform: the man carries moar of the responsibility for microshit ecosystem than prolly any other single malignant shit alive.
asciilifeform: if one were to ~set out to~ take the merely convoluted pointersandoverflowslang aka c, and turn into ~permanently~ indecipherably stateful churning liquishit, it would be quite difficult to do a 'better' job of it than stroustrup did.
asciilifeform: whereas 'no , motherfucker, what c++ actually is, ~is~ the the microshit crock of shit'
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/08/ny-times-attempting-to-meddle-in-brazilian-election-by-publishing-essay-by-corrupt-motherfucker/ << Qntra - NY Times Attempting To Meddle In Brazilian Election By Publishing Essay By Corrupt Motherfucker ☟︎
asciilifeform: sorta the polar opposite of vtronic development : 'this is c++, this always was'
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 21:39 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841573 << this is all new to me, I've been learning cpp from Stroustrup 4th ed. where he goes out of his way to act like cpp11 is the only version that ever existed
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841639 << actually quite pertinent to the thread -- stroustrup spent virtually entire past 20yrs , in successive attempts to coverup his n-1-st warcrime by pretending 'neverhappened' and... carrying on with moar of same! ☝︎
mircea_popescu: "I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. " << that poor guy. i'd say on reflection this is utterly the engineerhead problem, "takes a whole adult life to unlearn five lines of socialist idiocy a stupid woman poured into the 3yo head"
mircea_popescu: "In the first incident a SEATAC ground crew member 29 year old Richard Russell" << could use some commas.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 18:54 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/08/joe-stacking-takes-off-with-2-incidents-in-recent-days/ << Qntra - Joe Stacking Takes Off With 2 Incidents In Recent Days
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841375 << ahaha. the joe stack report. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 17:43 asciilifeform: my understanding was that mircea_popescu refrained from giving signal 'build us a fleanode' in the past on acct of (but not limited to) the reason where heathens (e.g. fetgurlz) would have difficulty visiting . but we already have the +r hoop for them to jump, i dun see how much worse would be own fleanode.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841367 << no, the "on account" was very specifically "count of free hands". ☝︎
mircea_popescu: how did the monk that hated laughter go, "but a splendid, eternal recapitulation".
Mocky: re: hacksaw skills, yes, I can see the need for this quite clearly
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 20:50 asciilifeform: http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-08-14.log.html#t01:52:40 << incidentally asciilifeform coupla yrs ago made failed attempt to replace 'boost' in trb with cpp11isms. principle obstacle was that gcc 4.9x doesn't really have 100% working cpp11.
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841573 << this is all new to me, I've been learning cpp from Stroustrup 4th ed. where he goes out of his way to act like cpp11 is the only version that ever existed ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ( granted , literacy only worx if there exist reader also, and not merely chuckcha-is-a-writer )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho log is important labour-saving device, lack of ability to point n00b to $oldlog , instead of having to say same thing 10,000 times, is one of the plagues that killed usenet
asciilifeform: ( somewhere i got a GB+ of faqolade from the golden usenet days, some are pretty lulzy reads )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall thread where ( i fughet which one of us ) posed gedankenexperiment, put in an eliza made out of collection of ' n00b: $input mircea_popescu: $output ' pairs, and see what it does to n00bs
mircea_popescu: if she whispers "i love you, master" just as you feel her asshole tear you might deeply regret having missed hearing it ; but if alf says (yes ? name not pronoun ?) c++ bungled smart pointers, what am i going to miss ? it's not fucking going away. if only it did. it's not. the reason he fucking said it, even is because the damned thing won't go away already.
mircea_popescu: the necessary correlate to "no, you can't have your lunch and eat it too, just as you couldn't when you asked me earlier, and just as you won't later on", ie, "you won't get the answer you wish to hear no matter how many times you ask", ie, immutably in front of idiocy -- there's not that much to lose, not really, out of public conversation. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: the counterbalance, however, being that public conversations are by their nature immutable. what can you possibly ever say in public ? the ~same~ thing over and over again, yes ? hence the http://trilema.com/2018/let-me-tell-you-how-bad-i-have-it/#selection-29.0-29.43
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 17:35 phf: i'm pretty sure we had pocket conversations during netsplits, that none of the bots heard
a111: Logged on 2018-05-29 17:28 mircea_popescu: trinque, the whole fucking idea is to replace it once and good, with gossipd.
mircea_popescu: (but yes, i readily admit that the original notion in my head is for replacement to eventually grow, organically, out of the loggers, and this is what informs the "meh, too soon" recurrences http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-29#1819587 ) ☝︎
mircea_popescu: otherwise this mega-logotron is actually larger than the freenode it logs. might as well use IT then instead.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 17:34 phf: i mean to do reliable logging you need to track the whois "on server", and spawn 2 bots per server, which then all negotiate a single consensus message to promote to canonical "this is what was said"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841351 << this sounds like the fucking lamborghini of all logotrons. seriously, connect ~two~ clients to ~each~ ircd and then have them ring-vote ? i agree it's the correct design, fwiw, but maybe hold off on implementation some time ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: otherwise what, one day you accidentally cut your kbd cable while playing with cnc mill, phf is stuck putting code into a111 to bridge electric airgap ?
asciilifeform: i suspect that playing 'let's patch winblowz' but with fleanode, is not winning proposition, yes
mircea_popescu: ok, but the problem is how to solve. "speak otherwise" seems right thing ; "change its hearing" seems wrong thing.
asciilifeform: rrright but thread was specifically re 'sometimes it dun hear on acct of $lameness'
mircea_popescu: how is logotron going to decide for you what you ~meant to~ have public.
asciilifeform: unreliable scribes suck tho
mircea_popescu: or from the other structure looking in towards this same thing, the ~state~ of being public is something to be set by the participants, not by the fucking scribe.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 18:04 mircea_popescu: aand in today's cogitations, "all machines are milling machines -- some self-milling, some not entirely".
asciilifeform: what was the line with the mills , from mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: is the proper honorific for this weather mr or ms ?
asciilifeform: sure does. if mircea_popescu speaking into a gpgtron, then deliberate off-forum. if he's talking into a wire that turns out aint plugged into nuffin, then weather.
mircea_popescu: if you did it, it was deliberate. that's the definition of "you".
mircea_popescu: error : abstract symbol "deliberate" doesn't admit to be defined formally.
asciilifeform: as in !later tell mircea_popescu http:...gpgturd
asciilifeform: speaking of fleanode weather, rather than deliberate off-forum conv
mircea_popescu: involuntary privacy is to be resolved by the parties involved, not by the logger.
mircea_popescu: but then explain "had convo". if i http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-30#1838270 it's netspliut yes ? ☝︎
asciilifeform: right. and then netsplit, and suddenly not
mircea_popescu: but this is in the logs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this being so, still imho suxx when , we yes had convo, but then it aint in any logs anywhere
mircea_popescu: the very deliberate, and very plain gossipd-philosophy roots of logotrons are indeed not to be forgotten, either.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 17:31 phf: we've had this conversation long time ago, that irc loging is a purely gossip-like thing. at best you can say that "a111 received this message at such and such time, was claimed to be from X"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841344 << this is so. ☝︎
asciilifeform: quite likely was attempt to copy ada behaviour while retaining 'compatibility'
asciilifeform: e.g. the spectacular clusterfuck of 'smart pointers'
asciilifeform: it's part of how i ended up with ada : found that just about all of the 'good parts' of cpp11ism were lifted from it
asciilifeform: ( but also that it introduces massive batch of unknwown deviltry in place of ~known )
lobbesbot: Logged on 2018-08-14 01:52:40: <Mocky> is it permissible to use c++11 features with the client/build? I couldn't tell from the jamconfig. it seems like the int64_t type is a c++11 thing and that's in there.
asciilifeform: http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-08-14.log.html#t01:52:40 << incidentally asciilifeform coupla yrs ago made failed attempt to replace 'boost' in trb with cpp11isms. principle obstacle was that gcc 4.9x doesn't really have 100% working cpp11. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 17:11 phf: so +r drops the reliability of all logtrons
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841309 << i'm persuaded the problem exists. now wut do ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to want it... and another thign to dream it.
mircea_popescu: the guy that was going to make a working satellite fell into latrine and sunk under weight of wristwatch (that included laptop).
asciilifeform: this is recurrent motif , e.g. self-enfooding tablecloth
mircea_popescu: "why did russian inventors not develop airplane ?" "and many did the stove crush as it went."
asciilifeform: ( he drives it to the palace and takes over kingdom )
asciilifeform: btw the orig folktale included mega-line 'and many did the stove crush as it went' ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yup! that, very 80s, visually!
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 17:07 asciilifeform: prolly the Right Thing would be to have the actual logtrons ( phf's, ben_vulpes's , Framedragger's if he were still alive , etc ) sync to one another as fallback
asciilifeform: but typical of genre
mircea_popescu is just giving hard time
asciilifeform: ( lazy son (tm)(r) likes to sit on warm stove all day, makes threewishes, gets magic stove & other 'just works'en )
a111: Logged on 2014-02-14 17:22 asciilifeform: where 'honey don't forget to refuel the reactor, milk the bear, and turn us in to the kgb.'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think you ro folx had ~similar tale, with the pike fish and the magic stove
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform first time i saw a steam-powered sledge. russian technology ?
asciilifeform: there might be, but you gotta drill through 500 metres of rock and 100 of liquishit, to get to'em.
asciilifeform: ^ that is where it is. ( in fairy tale )
mircea_popescu: i suspect "he'd just like something that works".
asciilifeform: d00d is gonna have to lay it all out , by hand.
asciilifeform: cuz as it stands, to this day the state of the art re hacksaw work, is the plain old chalkboard...
asciilifeform: oh mircea_popescu , recall the flowgraph project ?
lobbesbot: Logged on 2018-08-14 01:30:42: <Mocky> the only thing I can think is if I can pull out those includes from worldhandler.h and put them in worldhandler.cpp, but I just don't see it. 90% of the methods have csString, or EID, csPtr, csVector3
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 20:09 trinque: that "touch bar" thing is the saddest shit. they literally put the stupid watch they made in the laptop.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the ice sculpture ? it's http://trilema.com/2012/generatia-fara/#selection-141.0-141.68 ; and the strange beasts, it's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841452 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: "this most prestigious rhino has a cat's head inside the chicken head on each of its four wingtips. SO MUCH MORE PRESTIGIOUS than the flying whale of that other temple"