log☇︎
78800+ entries in 0.565s
mircea_popescu: i guess in his terms this makes me an ai weenie. you know, like hofstadter.
mircea_popescu: i must confes : that i am not sufficiently an idealist to presume some sort of "human-brain-substance" that's somehow irreproducible in any other paradigm than via cunt-perl.
asciilifeform: the way i read it, he was talking about something like http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/07/wolfram-alpha-and-hubristic-user.html .
mircea_popescu: as the idea is to make ai not a"i". THAT we already have.
mircea_popescu: "If the thing is even remotely close to "intelligent", you can no longer issue commands; you must explain yourself and ask for something and then it will misunderstand you." << he's wrong, incidentally. intelligent and obedient are not in any way orthogonal, a matter i have verified experimentally to my satisfaction.
mircea_popescu: to my eyes the whole "social media" is running out of attraction juice, but what do i know.
asciilifeform: ( i suspect that this is one of those perpetuum mobile attractors that will continue to eat people more or less forever, this 'bbet reddit' thing )
phf: dc punk scene reminds me of this story i read at some point by an отморозок trying to run some hustle in london. at some point he says he saw some suspiciously clean looking skinheads, so was about to go "how are you brothers" until he saw that the two were holding hands. after that he goes on a long rant about how london skinheads are all fags, etc.
phf: oh yeah, of course i remember it as "everyone was children", but there was a cutoff point. "younger brother" sort of thing
mircea_popescu: phf i dunno wtf punk schene this is, but children were never allowed anywhere near, to my knowledge.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: interestingly, in so far as that type of joint goes, pedopizza is imho pretty good. i guess small chillunz make good pizza topping
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ah i assumed that the students were expelled, jailed
asciilifeform: http://www.truthcoin.info/images/jeremy-rubin-affair.txt << i recall this! but had nfi how it ended
asciilifeform: i.e. orcs who don't particularly care how densely packed ? and in b.a. they do..?
asciilifeform: lel i think that's mircea_popescu's lair
asciilifeform: mats: i strongly suspect that the vast tracts of UNINHABITED suburban shitboxes pull the overall fire stats downwards.
BingoBoingo: I await Twitter and startup creatures complaining about more street people.
shinohai: Last month was my driest since I started.
mircea_popescu: game accounts from what i currently known are compromised through 1) "dude used password as a password", perhaps with debian-strengtheners as per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-24#1558621 and 2) drive-by flash / activex / webshit exploit. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i was thinking maybe someone gets abused cs done in time.
mircea_popescu: no i mean symmetric something.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for some reason i thought that the client src was published
phf: "can't login" is literally one symbol. obviously i've seen that on compromised machines, somewhere in that large column of of id:*:... there would be a random system account with :: go look
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally i intend to use this in eulora - have the privkey file encrypted, and have both a client-wide settable prefix and a password
phf: asciilifeform: i think it's specifically to prevent rainbow tables
mircea_popescu: i think it's just a pw hash.
mircea_popescu: yeah not a very good scheme. anyway, convention is pw field uses $ver$pw, and i see ubuntu sets it to 6.
phf: it's a glibc2 variant, i wonder what openbsd does..
phf: actually i'm wrong again, crypt takes special $id$salt$encrypted format, where id is 1/2/5/6 for md5/blowfish/sha256/sha512. on the box where i looked that up all the passwords are $1$
phf: actually i'm wrong it's not even md5, it's a version of DES
Framedragger: ahyeah, i also remember reading about folx extracting /etc/shadow due to bad file permissions, god knows why
asciilifeform: phf: you can still enumerate usernames with /etc/passwd, which i assume is the point of shooting in the dark at it
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ya but iirc folx have attempted to crack things, and maybe it was some shitty hashing scheme before? dunno. but i've seen similar in old logs
Framedragger: i bet `GET /../../../../etc/passwd` still works often enough :p
shinohai: I didn't have a prior copy of thestringpuller 's key in that instance.
asciilifeform: ftr it was a spot check, i had existing copy of BingoBoingo's key
mircea_popescu: 1st seems more like spot check and 2nd i'm not sure the two did have a prior relationship
Framedragger: (i guess WoT trust had been simply deferred to deedbot until those points in time, etc)
Framedragger: hm. i could be wrong. maybe http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569436 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-28#1549905 ? ☝︎☝︎
Framedragger: right, right. it just appears that !!key is being used for established relationships, too. but, again, i guess, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578425 etc ☝︎
phf: i think key reliance here is very much ~wot~ very similar to how otc used to operate. i.e. if there's no identity outside of key, then key-identity-trust are all tied together. nobody sends anybody sensitive command/control/comm without knowing them first. i had a version of asciilifeform's key for years, and my knowledge of asciilifeform was build on multiple verifications of asciikey-asciilifeform-rating entity
Framedragger: (this whole "request key before i encipher" seems weird to me at any rate. store the keys, have some out-of-band way of verifying them, and use them when needed. but i understand that the current mechanism is useful, and iirc i must have used it myself, even)
mircea_popescu: maybe i have a really important message and i send it 2nd, what.
Framedragger: hmh. i guess it counts as "key verification" then. hm
Framedragger: (i kid)
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: but what oftentimes ends up happening when you request key from deedbot is that the requester then promptly uses that key to encrypt $text, and ping recipient with a public url to $text. the fact that there's been no mitm, i think, only shows that the lizards do not find this place important enough (for better or worse, etc)
Framedragger: oh, sure, i understand that the scheme as currently implemented *actually works* :p
Framedragger: hmm. i mean, sure, it just.. seems awfully promisetronic, to peruse local lingo.
mircea_popescu: not only is it done, and done tons, contrary to his "never" : but it is eminently administrable and accountable, as i just proved.
trinque: point being the "I am responsible for some" becomes meaningless because no one will ever be pinned down by that.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 14:23 mircea_popescu: "I never ever ever successfully used the WoT to validate a public key." ie what we do here multiple times a day ?
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578290 << for completeness sake, i'm not sure if what is done here multiple times a day is the thing he meant, i.e.: key verification :/ ☝︎
trinque: the signed curse would be stood by in court / at the gallows, whereas something like "I am responsible for some of this" is what, the part that killed my goat, or "always not that part" ?
trinque: and the -1 doesn't undermine the opposability with "eh, I never actually read this" and etc
diana_coman: fwiw I kept trying to digest asciilifeform's proposed categories, but I must confess I would still have trouble deciding on one or another; basically my clear categories would really be binary: I'm USING this or I WILL NOT USE this; the rest I would rather expect to be sorted by competence meaning that one who wants to write a patch for eulora would better get a "I'm using this" from someone involved with eulora, not from his t
phf: i know a guy who lives in a shipping container (actually mutliple shipping containers welded together) in that area, but he built it himself, he works with steel and propane and is generally a competent person (he lives on his shop grounds). when i read the story i though maybe a warehouse rave caught on fire, but apparently the idiots were living there? it'll just make the authorities take a closer look at oakland warehouses and fuck
mircea_popescu: i r writing a reply fwiw.
phf: this happens to squats all the time, but i don't think that the fatalities are as high in civilized world, because people tend to understand what they get into when they squat. sucks, because it's likely to make getting warehouses for legitimate use trickier in the future
shinohai: I had nearly all my stuff in claims until I found out they vanish sporadically, so back to Electron it all went.
jurov: i doubt it, gave up on creating tools long before that
jurov: mircea_popescu: just looked into storage to be sure, nope. but by time screens came out, i got scared by amounts you(plural) invested into eulora and gave up on it
mircea_popescu: oh i thought you bought one of the first ones.
jurov: mircea_popescu: no and iirc i never used them
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578252 << the two are different beasts. alexandria by design is a set of helper functions that wouldn't be out of place in the standard (complete with sometimes obtuse names!), some like with-gensyms doplist flatten iota if/when-let i've seen reimplemented all over the place. bind is more of a everything and kitchen sink replacement for builtin operators ☝︎
Framedragger: (the 79.98.25.168 pop is interesting tho, as some of these hosting-company-i-use boxen get provisioned with everything installed, and i'm sure as fuck that "not all" customers regen ssh host keys. so there may be more pops, or other interesting goodness. probably the whole /16 is worthy of getting properly port-scanned, lots of broken stuff there i'm sure - if anyone has time etc)
Framedragger: for logs, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578325 ^ is what i meant ☝︎
Framedragger: "i dug the dirt myself and now gotta eat it"
asciilifeform: i had nfi.
Framedragger: i think he's just young (https://github.com/FiloSottile). i remember his heartbleed test tool, it wasn't innovative but was useful. (but i hear what mircea_popescu is saying)
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess all this gives a very interesting answer to the "how does tmsr gpd compare to fiat states gdp". apparently they produce 2 gpgrams/year/capita, and consist of what, 1k of the herbivores ? meanwhile ben_vulpes 's thing deals in what, dozens/day ?
mircea_popescu: schmucks really came a long way from the 80s. srsly, consumer-mentality based fud "oh noes, i worry about my key! government should come and give me certainties! putin influenced elections! guns kill people!"
mircea_popescu: dude wasn't using pgp, what can i say.
mircea_popescu: "I never ever ever successfully used the WoT to validate a public key." ie what we do here multiple times a day ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: why does he figure himself as a "perfect user" i have nfi - before a business comms system works for you, YOU GOTTA HAVE A BUSINESS.
mircea_popescu: whatever, he gets at least 2 encrypted mails a year i get about two dozen an hour.
shinohai: "I'm gonna quit using gpg, but you can contact me using signal + tor!"
a111: Logged on 2016-10-11 20:26 mircea_popescu: no, i'm implying that nobody in plato's cave knows how badly the cave sucks until someone comes in riding a pegassus
mircea_popescu: trinque apparently this was the first time you commented under that name. i dunno, i thought i saw you before. anyway, should go straight through next time.
BingoBoingo: I mean "shooter" conviced of pedophile pizza but doesn't shed pedophile blood?!
asciilifeform: 'Electronics: Magnetic Cores I: Properties 1961 US Army Training Film'
asciilifeform: trinque: the fundamental question i want to answer, and which the linked piece was an attempt to answer, was whether signatures naturally fall into equivalence classes.
asciilifeform: whole thing came from 'how do i negrate patches' or even 'negrate prb'
trinque: as I pondered the thing it also brought from the dark recesses of my mind the "semantic web"
shinohai: Sure I expect with that ~$6 price it has dropped to today has something to do with it
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577753 << both of'em, mikrotik 'RouterOS v6.35.2' >> i now say let's pronounce as in 'necrotic'. ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: i've monumentally nfi, why. possibly for historic reasons (not everybody is mpex and happy to have links die every 6 months)
mircea_popescu: i have nfi who would be idiotic enough to use "country" domains like .uk (afaik you can't even do that, gotta get subdomaons off their holy site "co") or .ro etc.
mircea_popescu: i thought we already lolled at this
mircea_popescu: i think it's actually a matter of sexual preference.
mircea_popescu: anyway, when i say "don't have these problems but others" i specifically mean as evident in sexual behaviour (cue that "scandal" when sarkozy took some random woman to random event and the london-based journo-hos had a collective aneurism and kept blathering about how they'll bus supporters over)
asciilifeform: last i heard, 'the french' are blackening and eating Moar Kouskous
mircea_popescu: the simple notion that i shall read the string X as /y" rather than /z" because the entity labeled X "knows how their name is spelled", for instance, is exactly of the nature of "you must include X in your item because Y law" ; or of the "sexual harassment" ; or of ALL OTHER THINGS.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how familiar the reader is with early us colonial history - but the british uniquely pretended that all trade must go through british warehouses. in london. they kept laoding and unloading things. so they can be taxed. exactly like the notion that an imaginary "right" of someone to something may require me to do specific things. ie, the fritz chip.
mircea_popescu: and now, on the thread of this analytic approach, i may present the theory that the problem aren't the idiot consumers, but very specific opression of the english sort upstream.
asciilifeform: kreinin's piece is imho quite relevant, it is about the consequences of the ~wrong things being cheap~. and i cannot help but wonder if gutenberg did the same thing to the written word
mircea_popescu: i mean i've been toying with it in pieces such as "what's the tmsr gdp", which is very much exactly the same thing as discussion here, but anwyay.
mircea_popescu: it's a fucking large problem i'll tell you that.
mircea_popescu has been on a "pricing in tech" mental kick for the past half hour, so i was looking at that angle.
asciilifeform: which is why i said 'martian tech we'd like to know about.' so, if mircea_popescu knows how to 'undo vlsi' and mass-manufacture individual transistors again, instead of cpu, and put'em together how he likes ~later~, and have result resemble pentium more than univac -- then, for instance, yes, cultural form
asciilifeform: i disagree. if you remove the lolcat users, you get 10,000x unit cost. unless you have martian tech we'd all like to know about.