log☇︎
78300+ entries in 0.472s
asciilifeform: ftr i found bitcoin to be a very interesting thing (after, like many other people, very narrowly failing to come up with it) but couldn't stand ~bitcoin enthusiasts~ at all, barfed immediately when saw tardstalk, and #bitcoin, and will also admit, early #b-a
mod6: yeah, i feel like you came in, talked for a few weeks, checked it out... then vanished again for a while. then you were here.
asciilifeform: at the time i was doing a great deal of passive lurking, trying to draw a picture that might lead to the shangri-la where the smart folx live
mod6: <+asciilifeform> but how the hell did i wander into #b-a, i still cannot remember. << you were invited to checkout MPEx right?
mod6: for sure. it was unreal. i did like a quadruple take.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 remember that time someone put a mega sdice order in and flooded the book ? << Oh yeah, Sir. I'm still doing a O_O from that.
mircea_popescu: confirmed, there's a hole in my log for the 12th. asciilifeform apparently you didn't merely meander in, but managed to do it when i was off.
mircea_popescu: mod6 remember that time someone put a mega sdice order in and flooded the book ?
asciilifeform: but how the hell did i wander into #b-a, i still cannot remember.
a111: Logged on 2012-08-11 03:55 BTC-Mining: I lost 40 BTC due to a typo
phf: ah so there's a break on oct 12 from 04:56 to 15:08 which falls under
asciilifeform: Oct 11 15:48:50 <mircea_popescu> There's no drama like Bitcoin drama. The "will pirate make contact" storyline returns tomorrow and the new season of "will BFL deliver" starts in a couple of weeks. It's like reality TV without the ads. Which well-known Bitcoin business will suddenly fail next? Who should be voted off the libertarian island?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in what year was 'Oct 06 11:33:00 <PeterLambert> I guess there is no need for glbse trading funds without a glbse' on your machine ?
mircea_popescu: Oct 17 22:08:30 <asciilifeform> nubbins`: shitcoin was a crackpot proposal of mine (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988). << this is 2013.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: #b-a
asciilifeform: Oct 11 22:25:56 <asciilifeform> Please comment: "Shitcoin: a Modest Proposal." (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988)
mircea_popescu: as what, like a diff nick ?
asciilifeform: hm.. looks like i was in #b-a on oct. 6, 2012, and after, but apparently never spoke....
a111: Logged on 2013-02-02 19:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009 re-doing that would be a worthy exercise
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-02#-142550 , http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-02#-142536 << lel, there must be a missing piece, did i really appear in the log before saying anything ☝︎☝︎
phf: it's a redirector so not very convenient
phf: ok, so we have a new beginning of log, which is http://btcbase.org/log/2012-04-13#-325969 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: yes, when i teach a 15 yo to fuck, she ~has good instincts~ about what's slutty and what's not ; and works to clear the shit her mother shat on her so the slut within can shine
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the thing is a flame, and it was not obvious to me either on 1st pass.
mircea_popescu: see, the man looked in the jaguar's eyes, and SAW a soul there. little bit of circularity.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588683 << actually that's a perfectly fine meaning whatever he meant. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: now we know what it means when phf tells a girl he'll be 10-15 minutes.
phf: i'm about to upgrade btcbase, which in this case is an invasive procedure so bot's going to be down for a bit (15 minutes or so if everything goes well), after that there might be some bugs so feel free to yell at me
mod6: mircea_popescu: this is a solid point for testing, let me give this a test and see how it goes. will report.
mircea_popescu: s V implementation, it is in no way obvious that the time cost of his learning the language combined with the risk that he misses details in the audit is a better resource expenditure than simply implementing the tool again in his language of choice."
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this incidentally is a very cogent point you bring, "Multiple implementations of an ambiguous specification provide far more value than the "many eyes" mantra of open source advocates. An implementation in Python might burn the eyes of a Perl hacker, and the Perl be entirely inscrutable to a man who's never touched it before, and even were such a man to sit down and learn Python for the purpose of auditing another'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can easily simulate this by deleting a seal
mircea_popescu: mod6 i read through http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace.txt and indeed it seems right and proper vtronics. one q though : was there any patch not signed by asciilifeform interspersed in the flow ? because that's the only not tested case i think, if you have say a->b->c->d where a, c and d are signed by x. does it stop at a ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: randos throw in pgp keys still, half dozen or so in a month typically
phf: fwiw if shinohai can give me a state format, i could trivially produce a seen table for anyone pre split
phf: well, it probably keeps a state somewhere, but i mean since it got deployed, which was probably around the ba->tmsr
asciilifeform: on the other hand, if asciilifeform were to decide to speak ebcdic one day, we would have a problem talking.
asciilifeform: a hypothetical vtron with a correct forum-end and a disastrously broken harem-end can only hose ~the owner~
asciilifeform: possibly my point re 'harem v' was ambiguous. what i wanted to say was that ~every~ vtron has a harem end and a forum end
ben_vulpes: very much a harem-v. but -- works for me.
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/a-pox-upon-your-house << CH - A Pox Upon Your House!
pete_dushenski: i've heard of burning trees and i've heard of burning litres... but putting them together results in little more than a vw hippie wagon in my head.
phf: yeah, i remember mp scoffing at "a measure of sacrifice" few months ago
phf: it must've been down for a while, because wikipedia uses archive.is to link to his homepage
phf: it sort traced western history from the perspective of time measurement. "and then they had a city clock to synchronize everyone"
phf: i feel like there was a neat article about the history of seals somewhere inthe logs, but i can't find it
mircea_popescu: reseal = the act of signing a patch with your own key.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 18:49 mircea_popescu: you ~can~ after all rebase a patch ; not just because of the patch, but also because of the sig.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588519 << 'rebase' in my mind entails changing vpatch to have new hashes, or some other mutation. just transmitting a new sig does not change where a patch might lie in the tree. ☝︎
ben_vulpes: can you cook a diff between v9..5 and v9..4 ?
mircea_popescu: if you have a collection of keys you're - for whatever reason, maybe they're all me, maybe they're my harem, maybe they're all the people from russia, whatever - interested in, yes you can build the set of all pathes they signed.
asciilifeform: a blind man may well have a machine with many fewer moving parts than cat, read his balzac.
mod6: So I have made a couple small changes to my V99995, and have put together an output trace of what we were seeing with V99995 and what we now see with the changes made in a possible V99994 version. Review of this would be nice to validate that the behavior is correct: http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace.txt
asciilifeform: yes but let's suppose that mircea_popescu mistyped, deliberately or otherwise, a character(s) in the string, and wrote 'kye x is ym key'
mircea_popescu: yes, once you populate a db with the keyids of "known mp's subservient keys" you can
asciilifeform: gedankenexperiment. say i have a billion signed texts, from all over the galaxy, and also a number of keys, can i mechanically query 'documents signed by all of mircea_popescu's known subserviant keys' ? is the notion that anyone trying to do this is by definition up to no good ?
mircea_popescu: universality and hardness are orthogonal, how hard a diamond is as a standard of realistic hardness has entirely nothing to do with how many cunts wear one around their whatever appendage.
asciilifeform: it is not infinitely hard, but is a standard, like diamond, for what is realistic hardness.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i have a perfectly serviceable way to harden keys for the record. it's just not ~standardized~, and it's unclear it should be.
asciilifeform: all of the extant vtrons, i will point out, run on linux, which is a monstrous horror of the deep that no one in my wot has signed, ditto python, perl, etc.
asciilifeform: if you have 'soft' linkages between subservient keys, and no way to 'harden' them for the record, a slick operator could simply shed subpersonalities like snake skins, and there will be doubt in re the contiguity of identity, where there ought be no possibility of doubt.
asciilifeform: actually the relevant mircea_popescu article was another, where he had example of a man who is about to be hanged, but argues that the man who did the crime, is not the one who is bound and led to the gallows
mircea_popescu: facts are opposable. intentions aren't a thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has a pretty good exposition of this, not long ago, in the 'opposed' thread
asciilifeform: a rsa signature is a canned, if you will, piece of volition.
asciilifeform: so we have here a suit of armour where the leather straps rot, but the iron -- does not.
asciilifeform: well iirc in mircea_popescu's original sketch, the sole linkage between mircea_popescu-royalkey and mircea_popescu-apocryphakey is a wot rating. and wot as we have it is an ephemeral thing, which relies on ability to interrogate living people, and not only living but near to the interlocutor in wot.
asciilifeform: to not give the enemy a place to stick the knife.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's grandfather had a gigantic tray of rubber stamps, of what must have been a dozen different shapes, and when signing a document would first stamp it with the rubber that corresponded to the imperial role in which the signing was to take place. this was orc sop. and i suppose the concept is doomed to stick around.
phf: i guess the multiple keys idea was already introduced in gossipd (in the original spec i suspect it was a solution to "no automatic RSA-ing" problem)
mircea_popescu: ~same as of a pastebin
asciilifeform: may as well sign with a phuctored key
asciilifeform: there's no 'fixed form' from a key made on public comp tho
asciilifeform: that a naked, barbaric pastebin would not
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a fixed form.
asciilifeform: a 'helpful' fella can simply repaste it.
mircea_popescu: you can literally come up with an idea for a thing while travelling ; go to internet cafe ; spin up gpg to make you a new key while you bash it down ; then sign the patch with that key which you don't even bother taking from there.
phf: mircea_popescu: correction in this case can come in a form of another vpatch either by original author after the discussion or by anyone who wants to make annotations, etc. in which case the dialog becomes valuable on its own, because it preserves the differences that have didactic value
mircea_popescu: ie, item X enters life signed by "doubful matter key Z" and then a year later is signed by "ok this is it key Z" and makes it to the stable press
mircea_popescu: you ~can~ after all rebase a patch ; not just because of the patch, but also because of the sig. ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: recently mircea_popescu suggested a cleaner scheme where everybody has multiple signing keys, and they rate one another, as if they were people. which is probably as mechanized as this will ever get.
mircea_popescu: phf you don't have to post a snippet of code as ~vpatch~. can just pastebin it also
asciilifeform: phf: i stabbed at the problem of formalizing a way to specify what it is you actually commit to when signing a patch. it was the 'vectorized' thing, and everybody barfed.
phf: but the reason i made those statements yesterday is because i think that like saying things in log is an opportunity to be corrected, so does posting a vpatch, it could be a learning experience. instead the mindset seems to be http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-20#1411214 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-01-19 14:46 mircea_popescu: you could technically run a chan off v.
asciilifeform: and also from a comment by mircea_popescu that went something like 'i must be able to put finger on a line of code and get names'
asciilifeform: it was a fairly unambitious generalization from things we had already been doing by hand in trbdom
mircea_popescu: but yah, seems v was born principally out of a discussion on august 5th
phf: actually the subject is an ongoing, year old conversation about about V as a way to represent knowledge starts with http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-12#1271598 and then gets revisited every couple of months ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-08-08 04:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in somewhat related nyooz, i've been experimenting with what for now i call 'v' - a very dumb 'versioner' that i've been writing, which eats solely 0) pgp keys 1) patches 2) signatures for same, many-to-many mapping of (2) to (1)
a111: Logged on 2015-08-05 14:11 mircea_popescu: how would this b-a versioning system work ?
a111: Logged on 2015-08-05 14:00 mircea_popescu: there's no reason for this to take a week to do.
a111: Logged on 2015-08-05 13:38 mircea_popescu: one is USE. specifically - hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces. and ima use her as a stand-in for "intelligent and willing to work, but not able to grow a beard".
a111: Logged on 2015-08-05 03:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he still has a point. a) we're careening dangerously towards -dev levels and b) people can't fucking follow wtf is on that list.
a111: Logged on 2015-04-03 21:41 asciilifeform: trinque: when you use a version control apparatus, it is very easy to produce patches that cannot be applied using your mind
mircea_popescu: making us a sort of argentina with slightly better developed oil expoitation.
mircea_popescu: ah whatevs. dude what a fucking tabloid this nytimes is. no, us didn't "blacklist" anything.
asciilifeform: ok i'ma guess 'a,s,l?' or similar
asciilifeform: maybe http://trilema.com/2016/how-the-other-half-lives-a-very-seriously-funny-article/ ?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, speaking of misfortunate subhumans : anyone care to guess the most frequent answer my bot gets ? it's "most frequent" in the sense that the next-frequent is like 2 std deviations rarer. hint : it's a question.