77700+ entries in 0.634s
Framedragger: seriously,
i'll write an mp-bot with markov model to rebuke any arguments people throw at me.
i'll reap ca$h.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: as regards that particular point, you are probably right. but what do you mean by "
i-ontology"? the latter becomes wibbly-wobbly
Framedragger: waitwait, algebra, okay [
i'm trying to actually follow]
mircea_popescu: it's just whether one is inclined to allocate either both of these domains to
i-ontology, or just one of them.
mircea_popescu: it's not just that computing isn't thought ; what happens in the brain is also not reason. as far as the logic is concerned things may be whatever they are, but in the objective development of the subject there's an
i-ontology and a world-ontology. this disjunction is or is not resolved in time ; but from the subjective development it was never a problem in the first place.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this distinction stands at the very root of naive notions of "
i'm creative" vs "
i'm good with math"
Framedragger: (and just for the record,
i'm interpreting any remarks by anyone here charitably, assuming no snide, and trying to be snide'y myself.)
mircea_popescu:
i just pointed out the method works ; didn't say it's the only approach.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: just to clarify so you don't think
i'm trying to fuck around,
i mean that all predicates would be true under null set.
i don't find that to be a good idea. that's all
mircea_popescu:
i really appreciate though that this topic can still get the blood going. you should see what it did to the monks of 1016.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah,
I just forgot to ever rate phf for his work.
Framedragger:
i don't know how a logician can entertain the latter. well, many things can be entertained, but it's not exactly.. how shall
i put it.. ontologically economic?
Framedragger: well, okay,
i'm not sure. but all predicates obtain in null set.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 17:13 mircea_popescu: as to the blue hair issue : if you can't produce a member which has non-blue hair, the proposition stands ; and if
i can prove you can't (which
i prove by showing there's no elements in the null set) then the proposition evaluates to true.
phf:
i usually just switch context when stupid shit is said, but this time
i politely pointed it out, which tbh produced an opposite effect of what
i expected. in polite circles when somebody goes as far as to point out that somebody is confused, it's an invitation for further introspection, not to loudly double down.
Framedragger: anyway,
i agree that there is a way to construct an "every" so that given a null set, it spits out true. however, "every" of what? usually there's a predicate, and then the way you'd test "every" with a predicate is that you run that predicate on every element encountered. and you test that it *obtains*, not that it *does not obtain*.
Framedragger: hey
i thought trinque unrating phf was a stupid reactionary thing. don't use this as a red herring.
mircea_popescu:
i think it's a fabulous testament on the very matters at hand that the ~only guy who has a very introspective, quiet, slow and complete approach to thinking/speaking got derated for emotionals.
mircea_popescu: but
i shall discuss logic with you, if you do not appease us.
mircea_popescu: hey,
i'm not here to defend extant programing language design choices.
Framedragger agrees. (but fwiw
i don't think it's legit even in terms of logical analysis, even before practical considerations)
mircea_popescu:
i still love the captatio of that sort of guy. it always reduces to "here we show this is controversial". as if THIS has some sort of merit or value.
phf:
i just found this thing, and this should've been that, and that should've been the other, va a fare in culo! :E
mircea_popescu: if
i were to endeavour to prove all primenumbers larger than 2 are odd, you'd count yourself satisfied if
i showed a number that's prime and larger than 2 can not exist, yes ?
trinque: proceeding from falsification
I can understand.
mircea_popescu: as to the blue hair issue : if you can't produce a member which has non-blue hair, the proposition stands ; and if
i can prove you can't (which
i prove by showing there's no elements in the null set) then the proposition evaluates to true.
☟︎ trinque:
I understand the difference, was saying lisp *should* have a separate false.
Framedragger: note, strawson, frege would say that the king of france *expression* fails to provide a *(logical) proposition*.
i.e., it does not have one. imho this is a valid thought,
i.e. the matter is not 100% clear.
mircea_popescu:
i know it's commonly taught as equivalent, but saying "x doesn't have an y" is not the same as saying "x's y is nil"
trinque: so then,
I just said "is every element in this set true" and got a true on the empty set.
trinque: were ther a distinction between nil and false,
I would expect (and) -> nil (and f) -> f
trinque: from where
I sit one can't ask a question of nothing regarding properties nothing doesn't have.
phf: trinque:
i don't get it
mircea_popescu: "dear abby -
i noticed today that while wearing my chastity belt,
i can't seem to have sexual intercourse. please advise."
shinohai:
I do now, my img block was on ;p
a111: Logged on 2016-03-28 13:11 mircea_popescu: upon consideration,
i see no reason to continue supporting or otherwise encourage kakobrekla's bizarre worldview. on the contrary,
i view further involvement with the nonsense as considerable moral hazard, and a miserable thing to do altogether.
shinohai:
I spoke to him about that too actually xD
phf: ohno
i wonder if
i broke it
thestringpuller:
i thought most engineering schools wouldn't allow you to use calculators for math classes? We weren't allowed to use anything but our brains for all Math even DiffEq.
I think statistics was the only class where there was an exception.
mircea_popescu:
i don't teach math by computer either. it's like teaching cooking by washing socks.
Framedragger:
i agree, and there is the whole utilitarian framework to be considered in specific instances, such as, "make bloodmoney now, to be invested for quantifiably more good later", etc.; still, it's a nuanced thing...
Framedragger: (that being said, /me considers working part-time in the future to come, and working more on personal/worthy projects on the side.
i don't know how asciilifeform is tmsr-productive while doing other stuff full-time - maybe
i should go on a modafinil diet heh)
Framedragger: (it may however be noted that lacking material wealth, the extreme case of the above appears to be gabriel_laddel (
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1570190); and
i *do* prefer to have a friggin' mailing address; and there are places to work which do not do heaven-important things, but are not microshit, either;
i.e., there's a spectrum.)
☝︎ mircea_popescu: "
i just want to"
i get it,
i get it. it's stupid and disastrous.
mircea_popescu: except, in typical "
i'm a thinker not a doer" puppy style, figured out after.
mircea_popescu: on which note
i should wish to muchly encourage the ~competent~ youth to not fear "suicide" of this nature. it's a control artefact implanted by the socialist motherhood for their detriment, a sort of imaginary pain box of the bene gesserit. there's no reason to even HAVE a "group of women who don't fuck" as a political entity, let alone ridoinculous imaginary boxes.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 12:47 mircea_popescu: not only does it mirror how we learned programming as kids (
i did circles in a for loop in basic, obtained a nice worm guy!) but it gives an immediacy to lisping absent ANYWHERE else.
Framedragger:
i would avoid inducing all of this confusion if
i wrote all of this shit up in place - mea culpa. will be done eventually.
Framedragger:
i guess one should standardise terms here. the larger number corresponds to "something's running there" servers, found via 1st scan phase. the lower 15M number corresponds to "actually speaks ssh protocol" servers, found via 2nd (ssh-keyscan) scan phase.
mircea_popescu: not only does it mirror how we learned programming as kids (
i did circles in a for loop in basic, obtained a nice worm guy!) but it gives an immediacy to lisping absent ANYWHERE else.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: actually
i would propose it's a very fine way if not the best way to learn lisp.
Framedragger: apparently
i'm behind on linux graphics software
Framedragger: "
i wanted to try something new, and now
i have sharks."
mircea_popescu:
i swear gedit is like the emacs of the art world. once you learn how to use its lisp parts you can never leave.
Framedragger: `sudo apt-get install pinta` << is what
i did. default ubuntu repos, default ubuntu install fwiw.
mircea_popescu: ftr it's /usr/share/ca-certificates ; and
i got like... 7
Framedragger: wait
i'm checking. there's a chinese root authority there... maybe package name denoted something else... still, who in their right mind?...
Framedragger:
i'm actually pissed, which just means that
i was too optimistic about ubuntu. *
i was installing a simple image editor*
Framedragger will consider testing it. would be useful knowledge,
i.e. OVH *is* cost effective for not-super-important "lower grade hardware ok" deployments
Framedragger: (oh oh, and also trying out masscan (the first-stage scanner,
i.e. the one which sends TCP SYNs) with maybe 30-100k packets per second stable))
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: well, didn't *serve*, but benchmarked myself.
i can try again tho, that was long ago
Framedragger: (
i use tor to access things like library genesis while still in airstrip one, but that says more about airstrip one than anything else.)
mircea_popescu:
i honestly don't know anyone (who is someone,
i don't mean kids with no money, no power and no value dicking about ; and who isn't actually nsa) is still using the thing.
shinohai:
I shall make haste to leave these walls the day you recommend using signal+tor
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it's an iffy thing from my pov, because on one hand you know, you did it
i should link it ; but on the other
i dunno how many people'd click and how well you're set-up for it. anyway if you'd like a blog linked or something do say.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 06:40 trinque: yeah
I guess it checks out.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-15 15:54 Framedragger: (numbers in filenames and internal line order maps to openpgp files
i gave you, fwiw)
trinque:
I don't think much of luck, so
I'll say do well instead!
mircea_popescu: anyway, this will be a pretty big one, as far as these go.
i imagine it'd soak up 1-2 hrs of your time.
mircea_popescu:
i can link you to the proceedings of a coupla past ones if you wanna see
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: sure thing (assuming it's just in #eulora irc chan). on one condition :
i do it pro bono.
mircea_popescu: hey listen pete_dushenski ,
i need someone to be the auctioneer for the next s.mg auction in eulora because
i want to be able to bid myself. do you wanna do the job ?
i'll pay ya 1mn ecus.
mircea_popescu:
i even tried reloading the map billion times to see if useful peasant pops up. some give you major bonuses.
phf: hmm,
i'm giving it another three days
phf: ha,
i'm not falling for that one!
i'm right now in the process of trying to kill that damn dragon
mircea_popescu:
i'm basically following around a swarm of angry mobs cutting up a different swarm of angry mobs.