asciilifeform: sorta like in miller-rabin.

asciilifeform: grind luby's soliton distribution, and you get a calculably vanishing probability of failure

asciilifeform: ( now it should be obvious how )

asciilifeform: luby has one. ☟︎

asciilifeform: or rather not i have one, but

asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu it so happens that i have what looks like a solution to 'sign a TB with a 4096bit key with no hash'

asciilifeform: i'd like to find what trinque had in mind re accounting for collisions. ( but let's encourage him to put it in the article! )

asciilifeform: ( and i say this after making 'v', where proposed to put all of human knowledge to sit on hash! lol )

asciilifeform: we have no such thing for hash.

asciilifeform: you know roughly how much stress a thing can take, before you put stress on it

asciilifeform: in other walks of life, when, e.g., building bridge, there is a notion of material strength

asciilifeform: and not a 'year is 2020 and keccak broke'

asciilifeform: only if it's an ideal roulette

asciilifeform: which is IS.

asciilifeform: but did say 'fractional reserve'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did not say 'let's all quit using hashes', nao

asciilifeform: 0 proof of strength.

asciilifeform: they are vooodoo.

asciilifeform: just as there is not for block cipher.

asciilifeform: there is NO theoretical proof of strength for any hash algo

asciilifeform: and nobody promised you a fair roulette here.

asciilifeform: that ain't a zero.

asciilifeform: i don't see a zero

asciilifeform: i dun mean 'retrocompatible with usg', i mean -- with self.

asciilifeform: cares.

asciilifeform: anyone verifying a freshly synced node?!

asciilifeform: yes but you cannot retro-elongate hashes of the past.

asciilifeform: the past has no 'now'

asciilifeform: hash collisions cannot be fixed by 'we use THIS OTHER hash NAO! haha' because now enemy can monkey with the past.

asciilifeform: gotta fixedtimespace.

asciilifeform: there is no place for blank cheques in network protocol.

asciilifeform: ( old thread )

asciilifeform: we already established that a hash collision is asteroid event for blockchain. ☟︎

asciilifeform: lol

asciilifeform: but on my planet -- hash.

asciilifeform: can call bzortl if you want.

asciilifeform: well what else is it called.

asciilifeform: what's the final bit ?

asciilifeform: there is nothing hard-linking the chunks to your particular transmission.

asciilifeform: he takes chunks from diff occasions.

asciilifeform: why not ?

asciilifeform: he now has an 'alphabet' of signed chunkolade

asciilifeform: enemy takes your 0001what someotherdays00002 moraff02930005 .... etc and yer phucked

asciilifeform: what are the blocks ?

asciilifeform: aite. your block size is 5.

asciilifeform: let's work example ?

asciilifeform: if not... a hash.

asciilifeform: what means 'more compact construct'

asciilifeform: and enemy takes fullblock, block1, and block2 and rearranges on the wire and naowat.

asciilifeform: if you split into chunks and sign each chunk, enemy can shuffle'em

asciilifeform: what means count

asciilifeform: and how do you prevent rearrangement ?

asciilifeform: there ain't no such thing as fulltext signing if fulltext is bigger than your modulus ( and padding also takes space )

asciilifeform: trinque: if you worked out a clean answr to this puzzle in your article, i'll enjoy reading

asciilifeform: because 'take this Q, gimme X where H(X)=Q' can resolve to infinitely many X

asciilifeform: you can't treat hashes as 1:1 with your set.

asciilifeform: world -- unravels.

asciilifeform: what is it to do if it has 2+ ?

asciilifeform: it takes a hash and gives back a warez ( or opposite )

asciilifeform: point of concern is the indexer -- it has nfi re the signatures or any such detail

asciilifeform: that's just another hash.

asciilifeform: worx great until actually pressed to capacity and then suddenly worx not at all.

asciilifeform: it is a type of fractionalreservebanking.

asciilifeform: this is kinda why asciilifeform isn't overly fond of hashing .

asciilifeform: because it's a when, not an if.

asciilifeform: trinque: the other thing, if you are going to put entire weight of the known universe on a hash, gotta specify what happens in case of a collision.

asciilifeform: no mouse -- infinitely

asciilifeform: some mouse bangs against the glass 900 times, others -- 9,000

asciilifeform: as ethertardium is to btc, etc

asciilifeform: htm is to actual hypertext as koch is to rsa.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: in exactly same way and for same reason as the rest of www stack

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: htm anchors suck balls

asciilifeform: ( or to show any relation b/w objects other than how you ~got to it~, which is wholly incidental to the object ! )

asciilifeform: www browser was made by monkeys and is ill-equipped to flip b/w variant views of an object

asciilifeform: aa

asciilifeform: wai which

asciilifeform: ( why -- i still have nfi )

asciilifeform: (1960s...)

asciilifeform: called the xxxxx 'tumblers'

asciilifeform: tnelson understood this

asciilifeform: then and only then, the middle.

asciilifeform: separation of flies and cutlets algo works best by starting from the peripheries -- take off the flies which clearly touch only flies, and the cutlerstuff that clearly touches solely cutletstuff.

asciilifeform: the former is ffatronic ( bound! ) ; the latter -- potentially unbound

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho trinque hit upon a potentially good 'engineer cut' tho -- separation of 'fetch me this thing, that we know exists' from 'perform the following computation with these-here params'

asciilifeform: and now we have whatwehave.

asciilifeform: i can see where mircea_popescu is going. they had nfi, then some 'kind' soul 'helped'

asciilifeform: anykey!

asciilifeform: !!up Barbarossa_

asciilifeform: trinque convinced.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, i'm sold

asciilifeform: trinque: still done

asciilifeform: winblowz has a hosts.txt, wat

asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: meet mircea_popescu

asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: there are arcane approaches to solving the problem mathematically ( see shamir's poker , etc ) but afaik none in battlefield use today.

asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu !

asciilifeform: designated losers -- get 'chance'

asciilifeform: claiming trng is unprovable. they might have a fg, or they might have a wad of bytes generated in 2014 and designated winners get a copy.

asciilifeform: this does not actually solve the problem of proving that the output of prng was not known in advance to one or more of the players. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ^ was in fashion for a while. prng is used, and the next day (week, month, etc) seed is published. however,

asciilifeform: !#s provably fair