log☇︎
72900+ entries in 0.044s
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855391 << this is why you're even going. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, managed to mount a " ", which is now unmountable.
mircea_popescu: could stack these infinitely.
Mocky: just need to breed strong pigeons that can carry 'return trip counterpart' plus payload
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 16:26 asciilifeform: i.e. you'd have to ship'em out of BingoBoingostan in boxes.
mircea_popescu: frenode's teh shit.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in lulz, "* You are banned from this server- You have a host listed in the DroneBL. For more information," YEAR OLD listing in some obscure bs "database". ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 16:15 Mocky: asciilifeform, O(1) crapolade packet rejection is already available in software with your FFA lib, if RSA over non-frag UDP was built on top, no?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855353 << actually the winning conjunction here is that a) rsa message size is capped and b) udp packets are capped at ~same size. this is rapidly becoming a case of 4096 bit keys and 2048 bit packets and sayonara. ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: but, yes, alf has a point : meanwhile read up ~on tcp~. despaired.
mircea_popescu: "worst thing for trying to maintain websites is that udp exists"
mircea_popescu: Mocky ah ah. this was all from pov of web though.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-30 15:22 mircea_popescu: atm, im blaming udp. and i would very much like to see it go away, right now.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-30 15:08 mircea_popescu: and the general point is udp does not belong.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-30 14:41 mircea_popescu: udp is the problem atm.
Mocky: mircea_popescu, 2015 thread including http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-30#1218061 http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-30#1218108 http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-30#1218171 ☝︎☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: to mathematize : if the validity of a received datum can depend not only on past , but on ~future~ data, you have a 'to allcomers' ram giveaway. precisely like the 'orphanages' etc
asciilifeform: it's what gives ddosism its teeth.
asciilifeform: one of the dozen foundational idjicies of the arpa people , was permitting 'allcomers' to clog up routing tables with state.
asciilifeform: i grasp that sometimes cannot avoid stateful protocol, but the state belongs in the multi-opteron pc running the user proggy, not in the 32kB of misfortunate routers along the way
asciilifeform: udp is in fact quite popular for ddos, and the fragging mechanism that drags folx into supporting stateful reassembly is the major enabler there
a111: Logged on 2015-07-30 15:22 mircea_popescu: atm, im blaming udp. and i would very much like to see it go away, right now.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-30 15:33 mircea_popescu: but yes, it was practically shown that a) no actual protection from ddos exists, outside of the ostrich method discussed above and b) udp is the key to this state of affairs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he was prolly thinking of the http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-30#1218223 threads ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 16:01 Mocky: old log threads appear to have mircea_popescu with hatred of UDP, which has meanwhile dissipated ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 15:13 asciilifeform: i for one would rather have no frag reassembly at all if writing ip stack. not only b/c complexity but also this.
mircea_popescu: hey there.
asciilifeform: in other noose, BingoBoingo's crate seems to be moving
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=32 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 9/23/2018
asciilifeform: ( these already , not counting i suppose mircea_popescu's chix, cannot escape anywhere, the 'education' mutilated'em into permanent usaschwitz inmates )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: re the loans lulz -- i regularly wonder when they'll dispense with the pretense and finally herd the debtors into work gulag
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/09/pantsuit-drones-failing-to-qualify-for-pantsuit-loan-forgiveness-program/ << Qntra - Pantsuit Drones Failing To Qualify For Pantsuit Loan Forgiveness Program
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> right, but iirc it was some outrageous sum, that made mircea_popescu's torpedo look economical << Closets from 3kiloUSD monthly
Mocky: from appearances, qa version has similar "looks better to approvers if mega bucks will be invested" but also they are trying to 'silicon valley in Doha' so maybe some room at the 'bottom' ☟︎
asciilifeform: right, but iirc it was some outrageous sum, that made mircea_popescu's torpedo look economical
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Uruguay's cost mega-moolah AND imports USG/EU pantsuitism absent on the other side of free-zone border wall
Mocky: yeah, gotta find some people to talk to there
BingoBoingo: Mocky: Uruguay has a similar "freezone" system, gotta read the fine print
Mocky: they seem keen on most new tech, and particularly comms tech
asciilifeform: Mocky: you're a likeable fella... get'em to like you
Mocky: re: ice40 x250 and other projects: If I get a toe hold in Qatar, they have a 'free zone' to entice foreign R&D and tech startups which permits a new company to have 100% foreign owners, 0% tax on profits, duty free import/export. But requires them to like you and what you're trying to do. ☟︎
mod6: *nod* makes sense. Once I get all of the info back I need, I'll send around a board comm so we're all on the same page, and will list some possible options.
asciilifeform: if BingoBoingo doesn't pull off the ransoming of the crate, it will have to happen asap
asciilifeform: mod6: i'm pinching pennies in case i gotta do an expedition in near term
mod6: I've asked a number of times in both castles, and a few individuals direclty (whom previously said they'd be willing); no takers yet -- however, still waiting on some info back before we're on our own. Will let you know.
asciilifeform: mod6: i'll do it if absolutely nobody else wants to , but stretched rather thin, so give it coupla days if you can
mod6: We still need fiat, any takers? ☟︎
asciilifeform: and sits down in budget. ( nuke subs are prolly out, for the time being )
asciilifeform: not even necessarily in jest. i'm not averse to using absolutely anyffing, if it worx.
mod6: im just sayin', overall, that's a suprisingly long way for a winged-rat.
asciilifeform: mod6: if there were a place within 500km of BingoBoingo with sane customs regime, he'd be there already, neh.
BingoBoingo: 500km is Brasil, Buenos Aires, the Atlantic Ocean, and Paraguay
mod6: lol, that's a long way
asciilifeform: but i suspect not a winner, they do what, 500 km.
BingoBoingo: End then we'd have to strip down tcp over carrier pigeon to get UDP over carrier pigeon
asciilifeform: i.e. you'd have to ship'em out of BingoBoingostan in boxes. ☟︎
asciilifeform: and gotta be manually transported in the other
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the tricky bit , as i understand, with those, is that they only work in 1 dir
BingoBoingo: The national rolling pigeon club is a few blocks away. Could see if those would work
mod6: can we get a squad of these seals to blockade runners for us:?
asciilifeform: and i'ma never recommend to anyone the use of heathen 'rsa chips'. not even because they all, without exception, work with only 'toy' key lengths, but because srsly wtf. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Mocky: I have the local news playing in the background. But they are talking about these guys. https://archive.is/RRHQ Mind the publication date and remember this country was Lego free until that awful movie came out.
asciilifeform: Mocky: in the past i attempted a fpga rsa also. sadly the 'ice40' would need to be about 250x bigger, for it to be bakeable
asciilifeform: Mocky: the constant in that O(1) unfortunately matters.
asciilifeform: Mocky: in theory you already have rsa with Ch. 4 . but nowhere near line speed.
BingoBoingo: In other news Japanese robot seals (the ones for keeping the elderly company) have made it to Uruguay
Mocky: it's not constant time without asm?
Mocky: asciilifeform, O(1) crapolade packet rejection is already available in software with your FFA lib, if RSA over non-frag UDP was built on top, no? ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( on sw , the sun ddoses you 24/7/365, as well as washington )
asciilifeform: ( and really quite different thread... )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: very diff set of problems, there
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: whole reason ddos even exists as a concept is the short-sighted idjicy of arpa designers. i'd like to avoid repeating it.
BingoBoingo: Gone from cover of "loud redditards" pissing UDP at webservers to bloat blocker shitting turd boluses at trb nodes
asciilifeform: this is a temporary peace.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: they're still pestilential
BingoBoingo: <Mocky> old log threads appear to have mircea_popescu with hatred of UDP, which has meanwhile dissipated ? << There was a period when reddit hadn't yet given up on marginalizing the Republic and DDoS's were pestilential.
asciilifeform: fragola makes this impossible in principle, you gotta stow N frags to get any sense of whether the full packet is friend or foe
asciilifeform: the only final solution to ddos is O(1) crapolade packet rejection. ( preferably in iron )
asciilifeform: Mocky: incidentally, it is possible to do what i suggested to him then, which is to change the protocol # in the ip header and be generic ip, rather than udp . but only once we have own ip stack.
asciilifeform: Mocky: i suspect that he's rtfm'd since
Mocky: old log threads appear to have mircea_popescu with hatred of UDP, which has meanwhile dissipated ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: Mocky: my suspicion is that under ddos conditions, loss of frags will approach 100%
asciilifeform: i'll observe that if you dispense with fraggism, ip stack becomes fairly easy to write ( i.e. if you support only unfragged udp and nuffin else )
asciilifeform: the ip stack's frag/reasm is one of those things that 'worx until it doesnt'
asciilifeform: imho if you want large messages, oughta have own fragger/reasmer, not the ??? in linux/ciscolade ☟︎
Mocky: I don't see the benefit of building in a reliance on an external UDP fragment reassembly mechanism when the algo is 'all or nothing'.
asciilifeform: i for one would rather have no frag reassembly at all if writing ip stack. not only b/c complexity but also this. ☟︎
asciilifeform: which not only complicates ip stack ( for when we write one ) but opens up to ddosability ( frags are take-it-or-leave-it, they dun even carry the port # )
asciilifeform: even if seems that 100% of 2/3-frag packets make it through in 'laboratory' conditions, still gotta remember that the frag reassembly buffer is the ~exact~ equivalent of the pre-trb 'block orphanage' ☟︎
asciilifeform: re : udpism : at the risk of rehashing some of the ancient gossipd thread, i'ma put a few notes re fragging :
mod6: I'm about ready to start hunting too. It's getting close to that time of year.
mod6: mmm, i wanna throw some ribs in the smoker.
mats: BingoBoingo: 2019 is year of the pig
mod6: how goes today?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, what's the shortest delay you tried?
BingoBoingo: Apparently it is going to be a good year for pork and problematic year for snakes, of which I have yet to see any in this country
BingoBoingo: In other news, the morning news program "Buen Dia Uruguay" has a fat wrinkly bag on right now reading Tarot cards and making predictions for 2019
asciilifeform: diana_coman: all of my testfires thus far ended up 'no loss, no reorder, as if on lan'
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 06:24 diana_coman: asciilifeform's published test data seems to match what I got on my initial tests with 1 second delay; my current plan is to collect first at least 1 week worth of data and then to repeat the experiment with a. smaller delays b. several senders perhaps
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855291 << lemme know if you'd like sumthing in particular tested with my path, diana_coman ☝︎