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mircea_popescu: a damn, that's why i wasn't finding it on her blog -- cuz it was on mine

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i think that was it !

mircea_popescu: incidentally re http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131257 diana_coman , where's the article detailing the time we attempted to amber linux over it breaking eulora compile process ? is there one even ?

asciilifeform: re ^ PeterL i recommend #a .

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933381 << this is precisely the case ; do me a favour and move out of here to whatever lords' castle that'll have you on your own power so i don't have to strap on my tool belt and do it in a more permanent fashio,

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i used it all the way to the last day when the university shut down their unix cluster and expelled all 'zombies' who were still connected. which -- ~decade after graduating -- still included asciilifeform

mircea_popescu: eg, guy maintaining the server where i was pico-ing my email in the 90s, kept wanting to get me to emacs.

mircea_popescu: i knew some back in the day also.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 09:56:12 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933354 << am i the only habitual emacs user who never wanted to do anyffin other than ~editing text~ in it ?

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933370 << i was being sarcastic!

mircea_popescu: that i dunno

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i recall you had another similar , sumthing like 'da-mi mama dupa Iura'

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i see it nao, but i eat slowly, lol

asciilifeform: i'ma stfu and give mircea_popescu the needed air atm

mircea_popescu: by the time i pen a comment another 5 are in there, and then the log scrolls and omgwtfbbq

mircea_popescu: holy shit i can't keep up here.

asciilifeform: btw diana_coman actually #20 contains mistake, in temp mirrors 1st set up 'nginx' as in older system, then 'apache' to compare whether made diff in re performance (it did not) . ( putting this here, rather than to spam mp's www with 9000 errata comments.. )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect he has >1 point, but that this indeed was 1 of'em. but i expect he'll clarify, i'ma refrain from guessing.

diana_coman: i.e. not http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131256

diana_coman: fwiw I don't think that's MP's point at all.

asciilifeform: ^ not only worx, but i posted not only proggy, but full explanation of algo, here. and yet folx ~still~ bashing heads over 'pinger threads' and other ???! epicycles?! ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933337 << spyked et al: i am finding this thread a puzzler. here's why :

asciilifeform: i agree w/ diana_coman tho -- try it yerself

diana_coman: asciilifeform: I'd tell him to implement it, run it and document the results; he'll figure out what you are saying much faster that way + he'll learn something from it at least.

PeterL: I don't mean two full bots, I mean split the function of your bot into two, so you sould have, e.g. snsabot-listener who never talks, just puts lines in the DB, and when somebody quotes something then snsabot-talker reads it out

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 09:57:41 PeterL: I'm not sure I understand what you mean "anti-oscillation logic" and why you would need it?

PeterL: I was pretty lazy over the summer, camping with the fam, etc. I have not done much constructive lately.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 05:54:11 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131245 news, the list of random innocents dragged in by nomination extends to also trinque diana_coman leaving aside the explicitly unnamed.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933339 - I read it but I'm still thinking of it.

PeterL: I'm not sure I understand what you mean "anti-oscillation logic" and why you would need it?

asciilifeform: i dun irc in it, or read www, or compose music, or...

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933354 << am i the only habitual emacs user who never wanted to do anyffin other than ~editing text~ in it ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 06:09:49 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933332 << why should text mode be troublematic ? i would not even mind an irc client that works ~like screen, have a main window for each channel and then ctrl-a number to toggle etc.

PeterL: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1933103 << I don't want to overcomplicate things, but what about having two bots, one who listens and puts things in the DB and another who talks?

snsabot: Logged on 2018-11-12 11:44:19 asciilifeform: even on asciilifeform's home planet, good chunk of marriages were 'soft-arranged' -- i.e. 'comrade colonel, you have a bachelor son, i have a ripe daughter' 'comrade lt colonel, let's box'em in a room, wainot'

mircea_popescu: i wasn't necessarily implying cl ; screen is iirc c

spyked: hm. would require doing tty stuff a la termios, and I expect (haven't looked, tho) the existing cl code for that is cffing to ncurses, which... ugh.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933332 << why should text mode be troublematic ? i would not even mind an irc client that works ~like screen, have a main window for each channel and then ctrl-a number to toggle etc.

spyked: mircea_popescu, woah, huge response. it's gonna take me a while to process, currently stuck in saecular swamps. but I promise to get to it the first thing once I free my attention

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 20:40:01 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933248 << atm i suspect the chore of 'new clients' won't be escapable, in light of gossipd

mircea_popescu: meanwhile in http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131245 news, the list of random innocents dragged in by nomination extends to also trinque diana_coman leaving aside the explicitly unnamed.

spyked: (possibly because the call is not done on the main thread? I didn't look into it further than that, tbh)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 12:35:01 asciilifeform: spyked: mine disconnects strictly when a send() or recv() actually return eggog (i.e. indicating dead tcp pipe)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 20:21:45 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933151 << how do I know when to reconnect if I do this?

BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in aging and oxidation https://i.imgur.com/MR6r9hp.jpg

BingoBoingo: trinque: GPG me the tracking number and I'll retreive it in the morning

a111: Logged on 2014-11-05 04:47 asciilifeform: as a student, i was once told by a greybeard: 'you're young, but know that you have X lines of code in you. after that - log cabin.'

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, no, i know.

asciilifeform: trinque: i've yet to encounter the hypothetical marvel where pile of opensores reads other than like e.g. gcc, i.e. tumour mass.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933248 << atm i suspect the chore of 'new clients' won't be escapable, in light of gossipd

ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:37:59 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228 <-- until I get proper patches published, here's an idea: 1. abolish "ping-thread" from ircbot; 2. instead, set up a ping handler for the bot, and have it respond with pong; this has the disadvantage that there's no more lag tracking, but it's simpler. proof-of-concept patch: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LohMF/?raw=true

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933151 << how do I know when to reconnect if I do this?

mircea_popescu: i just want it to frag correctly, treat [][] as a single word, if not fit, put in new line.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd like a client that warns when about to frag line ( but can't be currently aroused to try an' patch 'xchat', 'irssi', other horrors )

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 19:09:53 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933203 << i wanted this in the 1st draft, but not yet thought of how to do this without mutilating the line ordering (i.e. merging fragmented lines into 1)

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933229 << i don't think there's anything wrong with removing the fragment of a [][] from the 2nd line and putting it in 1st.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: initially i wrote perlisms to generate'em, then thought 'wtf' and rewrote in peh proper

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933228 << i don't even think it's a cheat, fwiw. more like mastery.

BingoBoingo: 13kg tank of "supergas" is ~month of cooking for most folk's I've talked to.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933168 << the 'ru-ar' d00d claimed that current fuhrer had these cleaned. but i'd believe when see with own eyes (and i dun have expedition planned to peronistan just to find whether troo..)

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933203 << i wanted this in the 1st draft, but not yet thought of how to do this without mutilating the line ordering (i.e. merging fragmented lines into 1)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 15:54:34 mircea_popescu: i expect going forward tests will be 10x to 100x the vpatch bulk

asciilifeform: ( fwiw i suspect that there's no escape from the 2cycle motors anywhere, with possible exception of where Mocky went, where only dukes get driver license and commoners must instead camel )

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933213 << ty diana_coman ! i'ma put'em on my www tomorrow

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/ << Trilema -- So I was thinking...

diana_coman: mircea_popescu: hm, I don't seem to have gotten that pingback though?

diana_coman: I've finally got around to making the changes from http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/ and it works wonderfully! e.g. http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/?b=Logotron&e=#select

diana_coman: oh, nice work billymg ! I can fully appreciate having a testing suite esp reflecting the spec like that, nice.

mircea_popescu: not that i see the benefit of retargetting to say python or bash ; nor does it seem sensible to do php work in cl. but as a principle.

billymg: looking forward to when i can get out of the salt mines and dedicate more time to this, especially when the test suite is complete and i can get back to the mass deleting

mircea_popescu: i expect going forward tests will be 10x to 100x the vpatch bulk

mircea_popescu: i can imagine why

mircea_popescu: i suppose the air is cleaner than in, say, bogota. on account of all of argentina having less industry than bogota.

mircea_popescu: it is not true re area around obelisk. i lived there, for like a year, literally on the block 1 of corrientes, within 50m of the actual obelisk.

BingoBoingo: And yet the derps protest "But Buenos Aires is so clean! Buenos Aires has a METRO!"; I counter protest they've gutted and crippled every industry they tried to the point all they do is groom each other an ride the metro.

spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932832 <-- hm. when I debugged feedbot, 1st thing I checked was how precisely it disconnects; found out that it was the ping-thread consistently calling ircbot-reconnect, which means that it timed out, i.e. [http://coad.thetarpit.org/feedbot/ircbot/c-ircbot.lisp.html#L91][ircbot-handle-pong

mircea_popescu: i find it really satisfyingly funny, the sort of problems we manage to trivially summon

asciilifeform: presently i doubt that this sorta thing can ever be safely 100% automated.

asciilifeform: currently closest thing i have to a workable idea for this is a ~semi~-automatic item that'd eat N dbs and display, to operator, the divergence points, and propose all possible cuts for how to resolve; then select one.

diana_coman: asciilifeform: indeed; though atm I can't think of anything that isn't ~= automated walk of N dbs

diana_coman: the above mainly because it's a cleaner solution i.e. no more sed on the db dump (re db user I simply changed manually precisely *that* and not touched any log lines)

diana_coman: asciilifeform: in the end I did use your most recent dump, thank you.

asciilifeform: re 'why the fuck bot doesn't see own output' -- mircea_popescu had a piece re the idjicy of 'nat' , where same, q of 'what is my ip' becomes suddenly irresolvable w/out external help. i suspect in both cases 'sleep of reason breeds monsters', no one even considered to fucking think.

asciilifeform: irc per se as i understand is a 'dark ages' creation, before ~anyone stopped to even try to think about ~anything

asciilifeform: i already despaired in re the very idea of 'synced time' ; but this is in re absolute ordering.

asciilifeform: maybe -- not. but as i understand if the above can be had, than so -- later -- could this.

mircea_popescu: but i dunno that it extends as far as an expectation of functional retrospective backlink decorations

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm trying to draw an exact map of this 'cthulhu beast' .

mircea_popescu: yes, but i never contemplated this ctulhu beast of it.

mircea_popescu: i dunno i'm so crazy about redirecting the links, either.

asciilifeform: imho line rewriting is Wrong Thing entirely. errybody oughta have identical (to extent possible) db. q was re ~display~ in www , i.e. where the links point.

mircea_popescu: i am not discussing db divergence ; i am discussing line rewriting.

mircea_popescu: if i use logger a it is because i use logger a ; i wouldn't appreciate seeing my lines edited to use logger b, and especially not by logger b.

mod6: (Mainly follows what I talked about in the logs a couple of days ago.)

diana_coman: asciilifeform: yep, as I said to start with, lol.

asciilifeform: ooh hm i think i get it

diana_coman: and I don't see any need to change the urls anyway

diana_coman: yes; but not for changing urls (anyway it doesn't help with that, or I don't see how since url uses nosuchlabs /ossasepia, no?)

asciilifeform: hm i was thinking diana_coman actually ran 'sed' on the db dump