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trinque: if we get to a week's uptime I'll update deedbot

asciilifeform: in principle could then have a mircea_popescu-style php reader, and e.g ada bot .

asciilifeform: btw i dun recall if mentioned this, but it is possible to bake the bot in sumthing that doesn't know about pg, but only knows how to socket. ( i.e. if one were to move the 'insert new line' into reader , and have the latter take a http 'put' on 127.0.0.1 for same )

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 10:14:41 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933373 << situation where N bots sequentially trigger one another, in a circle, is prohibited

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it's a recurring topic, but no, let them read each other.

asciilifeform: currently asciilifeform's logotron kit takes list of other-bots in config file. these are used atm strictly in www displayer's colouration ( grey, a la phf's )

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> bung ? lol << You know, like a barrel of fun

asciilifeform: ^ hm mircea_popescu , do you think bots oughta ignore outputs of bots ? ( i deliberately did not, as specifically requested in mircea_popescu's spec ; but it would be a trivial change )

ossabot: Logged on 2016-09-30 10:25:26 diana_coman: it sounds like we should mirror them ; probably/possibly a bunch of packages for each distro at the end of the day, sigh

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 16:44:37 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: re the repo von minigame approach I searched a bit more and the starting point I think is possibly http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2016-09-30#922530 but sadly the concrete madness seems to have never made it fully into public view

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 16:42:07 diana_coman: in other unrelated stuff: I keep getting emails from Romanians that use those bac data sets but a. it's only and exclusively when they *need* something more/else and b. they somehow never seem to notice that they could also offer what other data sets they have to add there; GRRR

asciilifeform: btw in re http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131271 -- i have no objection if someone would like to put the proposition to a -- announced or otherwise -- torture test

diana_coman: mircea_popescu: that's an idea though in fairness I can't say I'd *want* them; so far I just kept pointing out precisely that a. learn to write also when you use something, not only when you need something b. send me those other data sets and then who knows

diana_coman: I suppose in time there'll be plenty more similar stuff that I should have written about but what can I do *now* about it - there's still plenty waiting in the queue to be done, yet more to be written and both queues seem to get only longer, a bit balaur-style, cut one head and 2 pop out

ossabot: Logged on 2016-09-30 10:25:26 diana_coman: it sounds like we should mirror them ; probably/possibly a bunch of packages for each distro at the end of the day, sigh

diana_coman: mircea_popescu: re the repo von minigame approach I searched a bit more and the starting point I think is possibly http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2016-09-30#922530 but sadly the concrete madness seems to have never made it fully into public view

diana_coman: in other unrelated stuff: I keep getting emails from Romanians that use those bac data sets but a. it's only and exclusively when they *need* something more/else and b. they somehow never seem to notice that they could also offer what other data sets they have to add there; GRRR

asciilifeform: linux file permission model is a joak even in comparison to microshit's, fwiw

mircea_popescu: he has a point there.

snsabot: Logged on 2017-10-09 11:45:35 asciilifeform: re 'why would anyone think to use threads' -- this is not mega-puzzle. naggum described similar situation in the bulldozer essay. imbecile sees an obstacle, reaches for the most obvious available power tool that seems to push aside the obstacle; without giving half a shit what's behind it, woods, swamp, mountain, or where the earth he pushed aside will go, and how it might interact with him later, etc

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'm aware that it is also used as a kludge to 'naggum's bulldozer' over broken www proggies .

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fwiw i've never succeeded in detecting a performance diff b/w the 2 (in the use scenario where they can be interchanged)

mircea_popescu: was it you that had a near death experience with the thing ?

asciilifeform: point being, a search box query costs approx same as ordinary page load.

mircea_popescu: a damn, that's why i wasn't finding it on her blog -- cuz it was on mine

asciilifeform: was iirc a pre-cuntoo attempt to cuntoo. but unfortunately not publicly given in detail .

mircea_popescu: that's a pity

asciilifeform: ( a surprisingly well-populated штрафбат . and asciilifeform makes an effort to read its log and reply 2-3x / daily )

asciilifeform: re ^ PeterL i recommend #a .

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933381 << this is precisely the case ; do me a favour and move out of here to whatever lords' castle that'll have you on your own power so i don't have to strap on my tool belt and do it in a more permanent fashio,

asciilifeform for many, many yrs -- used pine ! and when moved from last flat in fact threw out a crt with pine screen burned into the phosphor.

asciilifeform: sumbody send him a rubidium clock!1111

asciilifeform once worked through a collection of icelandic tales, by third ch was approx as edible as current engl

diana_coman: asciilifeform: it's a song afaik lolz.

mircea_popescu: by the time i pen a comment another 5 are in there, and then the log scrolls and omgwtfbbq

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933337 << spyked et al: i am finding this thread a puzzler. here's why :

asciilifeform: PeterL: if you do, will learn, that moving parts have a cost -- even if they're invisible, mass-less, and supposedly 'phree'

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933373 << situation where N bots sequentially trigger one another, in a circle, is prohibited

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 06:09:49 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933332 << why should text mode be troublematic ? i would not even mind an irc client that works ~like screen, have a main window for each channel and then ctrl-a number to toggle etc.

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933348 << nah, just talking about the blockages in my skull. going to keep putting out these weirdo pieces for a bit.

snsabot: Logged on 2018-11-12 11:44:19 asciilifeform: even on asciilifeform's home planet, good chunk of marriages were 'soft-arranged' -- i.e. 'comrade colonel, you have a bachelor son, i have a ripe daughter' 'comrade lt colonel, let's box'em in a room, wainot'

spyked: hm. would require doing tty stuff a la termios, and I expect (haven't looked, tho) the existing cl code for that is cffing to ncurses, which... ugh.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 20:09:12 mircea_popescu: nfi that anyone's getting into fixing extant clients, and no intention to make anyone write a new irc client, so...

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 04:25:12 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933248 <-- technically speaking ircbot can act the part of an irc client, just not sure how easy it is to write a ui (whether text or graphical) on top of that

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933332 << why should text mode be troublematic ? i would not even mind an irc client that works ~like screen, have a main window for each channel and then ctrl-a number to toggle etc.

spyked: mircea_popescu, woah, huge response. it's gonna take me a while to process, currently stuck in saecular swamps. but I promise to get to it the first thing once I free my attention

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 20:41:13 asciilifeform: imho it's not a waste of time to at least think about how sane chat client oughta behave, tho.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 12:35:01 asciilifeform: spyked: mine disconnects strictly when a send() or recv() actually return eggog (i.e. indicating dead tcp pipe)

spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933263 <-- imo this oughta happen when irc bot returns from recv, a la http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930111 ; cl-irc oughta expose some event for when connection is abruptly ended, so that ircbot reconnects from there

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 20:09:12 mircea_popescu: nfi that anyone's getting into fixing extant clients, and no intention to make anyone write a new irc client, so...

spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933248 <-- technically speaking ircbot can act the part of an irc client, just not sure how easy it is to write a ui (whether text or graphical) on top of that

a111: Logged on 2014-11-05 04:47 asciilifeform: as a student, i was once told by a greybeard: 'you're young, but know that you have X lines of code in you. after that - log cabin.'

asciilifeform searches for that 'errybody has a finite N loc in'em before 'black lung'' thread, but cannot presently find.

trinque: people who think for a living oughtn't dull themselves with programming

trinque: about to stand up the newly muntzed item in #trinque for a bit before swap

trinque: asciilifeform: no, but toiled once inside a yuge Qt beast

asciilifeform: gtk itself is quite a... mass

asciilifeform: trinque: ever try, btw, to write a proggy for gtk ?

asciilifeform: ( some time, with barf bag prepared in advance, take a peek at what e.g. 'xchat' consists of. )

asciilifeform: imho it's not a waste of time to at least think about how sane chat client oughta behave, tho.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 19:53:40 mircea_popescu: nfi that anyone's getting into fixing extant clients, and no intention to make anyone write a new irc client, so...

ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:37:59 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228 <-- until I get proper patches published, here's an idea: 1. abolish "ping-thread" from ircbot; 2. instead, set up a ping handler for the bot, and have it respond with pong; this has the disadvantage that there's no more lag tracking, but it's simpler. proof-of-concept patch: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LohMF/?raw=true

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933234 << no frost there. makes a diff.

mircea_popescu: i just want it to frag correctly, treat [][] as a single word, if not fit, put in new line.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd like a client that warns when about to frag line ( but can't be currently aroused to try an' patch 'xchat', 'irssi', other horrors )

mircea_popescu: nfi that anyone's getting into fixing extant clients, and no intention to make anyone write a new irc client, so...

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933229 << i don't think there's anything wrong with removing the fragment of a [][] from the 2nd line and putting it in 1st.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933228 << i don't even think it's a cheat, fwiw. more like mastery.

asciilifeform: there's a pretty large pile of broken []isms in the historic log

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 16:00:20 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933149 << the one thing that logger could readily improve on, is fixing these split-line issues. can it look ahead in next line if current line has a broklen [][] structure ?

diana_coman: oh, nice work billymg ! I can fully appreciate having a testing suite esp reflecting the spec like that, nice.

mircea_popescu: not that i see the benefit of retargetting to say python or bash ; nor does it seem sensible to do php work in cl. but as a principle.

mircea_popescu: the one cool thing about a complete testing suite is that it'd even allow rewriting into other langs.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 04:27:57 spyked: ] didn't get called in a long time (bot never got to that because it was stuck doing other stuff)

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933149 << the one thing that logger could readily improve on, is fixing these split-line issues. can it look ahead in next line if current line has a broklen [][] structure ?

mircea_popescu: a nice!

BingoBoingo: Punta del Este has no industry for 10 and a half months out of the year.

BingoBoingo: Finns also brought a "We're free to walk away from the pulp mill at any time" clause in their development contract.

BingoBoingo: Right now Uruguay's a hyrdro country with some wind wank. There's rivers here. There's no coal though, only basalt. Finns recently committed to pulping the Eucalyptus.

mircea_popescu: it is not true re area around obelisk. i lived there, for like a year, literally on the block 1 of corrientes, within 50m of the actual obelisk.

BingoBoingo: The Montevideans are just butthurt actually trying to build a metro on in the local basalt would bankrupt anyone.

BingoBoingo: If you're going to sell a groom each other economy, the main streets better look clean.

BingoBoingo: And yet the derps protest "But Buenos Aires is so clean! Buenos Aires has a METRO!"; I counter protest they've gutted and crippled every industry they tried to the point all they do is groom each other an ride the metro.

BingoBoingo: ^ The pretense lasted a full 21 days before they went to to being retarded in the ways they were before. New boss, same as they old boss.

spyked: ] didn't get called in a long time (bot never got to that because it was stuck doing other stuff)

ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 21:33:22 trinque: btw, spyked did you actually have a theory whereby my irc bot sits doing w/e for so long it doesn't respond to pings in time?

diana_coman: a sort of diff & merge

asciilifeform: currently closest thing i have to a workable idea for this is a ~semi~-automatic item that'd eat N dbs and display, to operator, the divergence points, and propose all possible cuts for how to resolve; then select one.

diana_coman: the above mainly because it's a cleaner solution i.e. no more sed on the db dump (re db user I simply changed manually precisely *that* and not touched any log lines)

asciilifeform: re 'why the fuck bot doesn't see own output' -- mircea_popescu had a piece re the idjicy of 'nat' , where same, q of 'what is my ip' becomes suddenly irresolvable w/out external help. i suspect in both cases 'sleep of reason breeds monsters', no one even considered to fucking think.

asciilifeform: ( lamport did not offer a 'wat-do if N parties can't agree on 'prev line'', if he had thought about this, bitcoin would have existed, at least as algo, in 1990... )

asciilifeform: e.g. bitcoin -- seen through this lens -- is simply a generalization of lamport's sync .

asciilifeform: ( incidentally -- as gedankenexperiment -- even 1980s irc ~could~ have been built so as to force a sync. simply force erry issued line to carry a checksum of the prev. seen. and if wrong -- you get eggog back, and asked to resend. but no one was even giving a nanoshit about 'agree on order' etc, quite obviously )

asciilifeform: irc per se as i understand is a 'dark ages' creation, before ~anyone stopped to even try to think about ~anything

mircea_popescu: such wunderbar winful scheme, it's a fucking wonder they didn't come up with it / use it

mircea_popescu: we ~could~ have a rule asking bots to log themselves as they receive the echo rather than as they send the line ; but that'd only work in a sane world where it echos, afaik irc does not

mircea_popescu: so this is a reason to introduce it as standard practice for live links ?!

mircea_popescu: seems fundamentally disingenuous, "oh, you clicked on a.com ? here's my own version"

asciilifeform: yes, in that when errybody has own logger, and uses it to echo, nobody will have anyffin resembling a complete index of backlinks