56300+ entries in 0.364s
phf: that's
a good kind of spy bus though, back when names for things were innocent. it's not like some kind of "Putting You In Control Bus!11(tm)(c)"
phf: there are extant lisp machines that have both hardware documentation and system sources, for example MIT's CADR, but cadr specifically predates symbolics by
a dozen of years, was developed by academia, so it's nowhere near as advanced as genera
phf: in
a sense that it's
a massive code base that works, but if you want to have full ownership, you'll have to fill the source-less bits yourself
phf: fwiw, if the goal is to put an existing lisp machine onto an fpga, then i don't think macivory is
a particularly good target. the goal would be to run Genera, which is severely lacking sources for critical components.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: well in truth it was kind of
a single name for many random items
mircea_popescu: if i decide to reconfigure my car into an electric generator or
a super strenght fridge or lawn mower or helicopter, I SHOULD BE FUCKING ABLE TO.
mircea_popescu: the correct move is towards
a |ing of hardware, and of software, and everything else.
spyked: yeah, but must still be of some use though. I don't know if there's even
a genuine Lisp machine in ro
mircea_popescu: this is artisanship, after
a fashion, but not to be confused with the genuine article imo.
mircea_popescu: spyked see, the thing with orc lands is that they have this. borz, chechen made smg. the egyptians made engine parts to VISUAL spec, by hand. i saw this. guy here offered to produce
a replacement pressure hose for me, by visual inspection.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman aha. most of anything left standing were parts of that. "greaua mostenire
a epocii ceausescu"
mircea_popescu: spyked was it
a cartpenter you hired, ie,
a guy who worked in wood, or was it an ikea clonal system you hired, ie
a guy who went to
a central warehouse where they cut some glue-dust planks to his spec ?
spyked: it's cheap enough to hire
a carpenter that I didn't need to buy ikea. and yeah, it's probably cheaper
mircea_popescu: ie, was custom made out of ikea materials by
a local craftsman with shittier tools ?
mircea_popescu: i assemble my computer out of parts to no great sufferance, and get for my trouble
a much better computer than any of the pre-made buying dorks.
mircea_popescu: spyked consider that most consumer products come kitted anyway, and when you buy
a car your question is "well is the engine from mexico or brazil or germany ? is this the original transmission ?" etc.
spyked: diana_coman, but giumale retired. btw, I know he made
a Lisp machine clone back in the 80s. the hardware might be lying around somewhere in the faculty.
mircea_popescu: software is the worst offender here, but hardware is also pretty bad. consider -- i don't want to buy "
A fridge", i should buy standardized compressor units, and so on. why do i want "the fridge" ? there's no need to debate "whirlpool" vs "obamacare". compare discrete items.
mircea_popescu: ted, ie, natural size + natural boundaries, you are left with
a pile of usable tools which naturally construct
a solution for any ~possible~ problem.
spyked: hi diana_coman. somewhat. I resigned
a year ago, but I'm around for various teaching stuff and wasting time on PhDing.
mircea_popescu: eh, the paradigm gotta shift from this pasty ass "ima try and make
a lot of moneyz so maybe im left with something after wife dolchstoss)
spyked: I resisted many attempts to turn the "programming paradigms" (Lisp/Haskell/Prolog) course into
a Java thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ro social-democrats are rather
a sort of "central republicans".
mircea_popescu: was possibly romania's first online item,
a joint blog/ezine thing
mircea_popescu: sort of like
a self-licking ice cone, except these'd be the lickers.
spyked: he's okay, we chatted
a few times, but I don't know him very well. it's hard to judge most people in the faculty higher than by "mint rubber or not", and he's pretty hard working at least.
spyked: he has
a start-up where he employed an army of "proof engineers" to work on systems verification. I'm pretty skeptical about it, since I tried very hard to understand his papers some years ago and now it's completely paged out of my brain
mircea_popescu: "We may informally state that "reversing
a given list yields the list which has the same elements but in the exact opposite order (e.g. right-to-left, as opposed to left-to-right)", but we have no way of accurately specifying this in our language other than by defining rev and postulating that "rev reverses any given list". The same goes for appending lists."
spyked: yeah, it was very easy to conflate "list can be described as either nil, or pair between something and
a list" and "list is defined as". I could rewrite sometime if you think it's worth it; I don't think it is, I was just trying to show how reasoning about software isn't trivial even when you have
a framework for that, let alone when void *p = ...;
mircea_popescu: spyked no, see, you already reference "arbitrary order" without having even discussed the matter. why is
a list ordered ? how is it ordered ? can penis pushe ice cubes not be
a set ?
spyked: hm. you mean, there's
a long way from "enumerated set" to 1:2:[] which I skipped?
mircea_popescu: it's
a set, and enumerated because computers lack the ability to construct ~described~ sets, such as "the set of prime numbers" or w/e.
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with "
a list is an enumerated set" ? which is what
a list is.
mircea_popescu: you're equivocating between definition and constructor! wtf is "
a list is... : is the list making operator so
a list is 1:2:[]" nonsense!
mircea_popescu: are you aware i think your "formal" model is
a piece of shit from paragraph one ?
☟︎ spyked: mircea_popescu, no. I know Inria guys made
a verified compiler. with the caveat of "abstract nonsense". anyway, tmsr search yields stuff :)
spyked: anyway, I'm interested in getting
a Lisp machine up. also, getting
a trb node up once I get some hardware for it
spyked: true, but it seemed like
a good idea at the time. and I can do it incrementally (the current blog works. it lacks comments, that may piss people off, but it's not like I get too many readers)
spyked: btw, I'm working (at snail's pace) on getting
a somewhat workable blog software in Common Lisp
spyked: I'm guessing
a lot of people here use Lisp for their implementations. :) I got into it after first reading asciilifeform's laws of sane computing
spyked: my initial thought on getting
a Lisp machine run was using
a RISC machine as microcode. and implement the whole thing bare metal in software. it's
a lot cheaper, albeit probably hard to verify
mircea_popescu: turns out the whole hello & welcome works out
a lot better when i don't have to ask "so who are you". who could have predictated.
mircea_popescu: either/or. but generally throwing out and redoing comes up
a lot
spyked: I tried to do some homework before joining here. still
a shitload left.
mircea_popescu: are the cuntlets threatened
a little or what is it ? no moar glamour for 1st lady ?
mircea_popescu: nobody gives
a shit about "poverty". let the plebs fucking croak.
mircea_popescu: in labour that's
a wage, in capital that's an interest.
mircea_popescu: because management has to decide optimal usage of capital goods and labour, and thereby there's
a time-value of both of these.
r0nin-: if you take 2 gold coins and put them in
a shelf are they going to copulate and have children?
r0nin-: thats
a made up excuse
mircea_popescu: but the ~reason~ for it is very much found in 1600s trade policy. the dutch had open trade, the english wanted all trade to go through london. their centralist, counterproductive approach is what sunk them. they kept getting freebies, such as when the dutch moved over under wilhelm to become "english", but by and large uk is
a thrown rock. it goes down.
trinque: that's not
a point, you idiot. make one.
mircea_popescu: the decline has nothing to do with that. uk has been on
a decline path since indeed, 1800s, and will continue to decline. and because their women are ugly, there's no italian parachute under their ass either. wales is
a fine example of where england ends up.
r0nin-: UK leaving the EU will lead to
a dramatic decline in the standard of living for everyone there, since they will no longer be subsidized with goods from europe
r0nin-: britian dragged the dumb german kaiser into WW1 because the german industrial base had surpassed anything england could have imagined and he began building
a navy
r0nin-: because the british empire that you so praise was nothing more than
a common understanding of 2 groups
mircea_popescu: was doing
a fuckload better before the introduction of the telegraph empowered the englishtarded concentration of administration. somehow they newver learned anything out of the america defeat.
r0nin-: but it was always
a shithole throughout the last 500 years.
mircea_popescu: countries run by 12 year old girls, and then they wonder why
a) there's no further demand for white males and b) the cuckening.
r0nin-: mircea: the UK does not have
a shortage of goods on shelves for plebs to buy. it may have problems with income distribution.
r0nin-: the entire premise of
a country is to minimize costs and maximize gains, so send as little as possible while importing as much as possible
mircea_popescu: ok. so then : when you run
a trade deficit, you are NOT exporting currency and importing goods..
r0nin-: prices go up, the economy requires more money to pay it, and its
a cycle
r0nin-: hyper inflation is always
a result of
a sudden production shock
r0nin-: the private sector is always
a net saver
r0nin-: because
a household cannot issue its own currency
r0nin-: the government budget isnt
a household
r0nin-: UK runs
a trade deficit with the EU that means EU is 'working' for the UK
r0nin-: if you have
a trade deficit the governmetn has to run
a budget deficit
mircea_popescu: it literally is the capital of
a large, bn-strong spanish gypo world.
r0nin-: obviously im
a bit exagerating
trinque: r0nin-: come over; I'll take you on
a tour
r0nin-: the UK is exporting
a financial claim against it
mircea_popescu: this notion that what you're exporting in
a trade deficit situation is "the pound", ie, bezzle, is false. what you're exporting is always the value, bezzle always stays at home.
r0nin-: the UK has
a higher standard of living becuase of the trade deficit the same way the US does
r0nin-: whats it the COST to produce
a pound?
mircea_popescu: it's not that it has it. it's that it went from "empire" to "minor province" through maintaining
a trade deficit. EXACTLY in the manner spain went from world's empire to minor province, two centuries earlier, through maintaining
a trade deficit.
r0nin-: so the countries that run
a trade surplus with the UK
r0nin-: look UK has
a trade deficit.
r0nin-: that why US has
a high consumption level despite producing nothing, while germany everyone is poor
mircea_popescu: understand this ? at first there's 100 pounds of goods and 100 pounds sterling. then the uktards want to live above their means, so some bezzle is printed up, say
a further 20 sterling. then the trade deficit starts, and in the next step there's 80 pounds worth of goods and 100 pounds sterling in the country. discounting the pound sterling from the original 1 to .8.
r0nin-: wahts the cost to produce EU products?
a fucking lot.
r0nin-: the Uk has to run
a budget deficit to add the money that is seeping out of the country