asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i would not be opposed to selling off 1 of the 2 spares ( either for pizarro-credits, as mircea_popescu earlier sold FGs, or for coin, or come combination of the 2 )
asciilifeform: or, how it is taught to young children, 'don't eat things picked up off the ground?' 'but what if they're delish' 'but consider'
asciilifeform: ^ ( goes without saying? ) for pro entomologists only
asciilifeform: no particular reason. but d00d figures prominently in asciilifeform's cabinet of curios -- 'old, sane, technically literate bl0gz'
asciilifeform: some folx have a strange attitude to own writing. i can even better understand the folx who burn their symphonies; but the indifferent -- i have nfi what broke in their heads.
asciilifeform: he was defrocked from his professorship iirc; then sued, won, opened new blog, then some time in 2012 it happened again, but after this vanished. ( see thread )
asciilifeform: but if looking for continuous ones -- i've nuffin
asciilifeform: prolly i oughta preemptively answer the q of 'where are the hashes'. answ: hashing belongs in vtron, and would be of entire shebang produced by ^above .
asciilifeform: anyways i've cluttered the l0gz enuff, that's all there is to this item currently.
asciilifeform: ( or rather, just the whole-program representation therein -- it is not a vtron )
asciilifeform: quite possibly only trinque will find this tool interesting : it implements , i think, his favoured variant .
asciilifeform: all it does is the 'human readable tarball' trick.
asciilifeform: don't burn too much time on this item, mod6 , it is strictly for vtronology.
asciilifeform: to see how this applies to $thread, take this , and then try gnudiffing the 'crystals' , then rename files, or move'em between dirs, and diff the resulting 'crystals' again, observe how only the 1 line that defined that 1 file's path, ends up changing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, phf , mod6 , trinque , et al ^^
asciilifeform: oook so asciilifeform dug out his old experiment, in case anyone can win from it :
asciilifeform: if the 'must artifically touch files to maintain clean-looking flow tree' is to be considered a problem ( and i do see this pov ) then 'only 1 file ever gets diffed, and it contains metacommands to create actually separate unix files out of its sections' is in fact 1 possible solution. and creates the 'every hash stands for whole project's state' thing.
asciilifeform: mod6: not really, no. it becomes just another text transform. ditto renames and redirs.
asciilifeform: but result was 'ugly inbandism', though it may be possible to do it without magic-symbols
asciilifeform: ( observe, we are -- for foreseeable future -- stuck in unix world, where files exist, and at the very least Makefile, .ads, .adb, etc are forced to occupy separate ones )
asciilifeform: phf: i actually tried this, into a drawer, but gave up -- ugly and inbandistic
asciilifeform: phf: how would this look , so that mass of patches stays similar to classical ?
asciilifeform: the way classical v can be , in times of need , reduced to naked eye.
asciilifeform ftr biased in favour of pills that leave the orig vtron simple ( while potentially introducing a separate tool for testing conformance to chronology )
asciilifeform: (because they have properly low expectations)
asciilifeform: heathens do not have this headache in their pigstys
asciilifeform: problem is that most meaningful transforms are ~not~ attainable automatically, and the otherwise spiffy vtronics create unwarranted expectation of automatism
asciilifeform: phf: in this sense -- correct, it was never automagically 'omit 1 d00d's key and still get otherwise wholly-valid set of same presses as before'
asciilifeform: by same logic 'v is a bother and let's all shithub', conceivably, neh ?
asciilifeform: just cuz the lorica is too heavy does not prove 'armour is Wrong Thing' , lol
asciilifeform: not sure that anybody got around to trying it
asciilifeform: i no longer try to actively persuade folx 'it oughta be Like So!' , at this point it is up to phf , mircea_popescu , diana_coman , et al, folx who very actively work on multi-author projects , to determine a Troo Vtron
asciilifeform: can make it narrower. but then you lose the multiverse aspect, aha.
asciilifeform: phf: which is why i wrote the classical vtron the way i did -- wanted max flexibility of form. and yes this has cost.
asciilifeform: phf: can you give a concrete press head for current-trb that will barf if the lateral-walk is removed ?
asciilifeform: i will also add, classic vpatches were verifiable with simple gnu tools 'by hand', and even creatable 'by hand' similarly. complex hash mechanism, not so much, and imho this is a downer
asciilifeform: 'hash everything' is tricky tho : do you also hash the manifest ?? (presumably up to the exact point where new hash gets inserted ?? )
asciilifeform: ah yes iirc trinque proposed to remove the illusion created by classical gnupatch , that of file-independence
asciilifeform: original v left chronicling as a per-project convention, to the pleasure of the project operator, rather than part of vtron
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu proposed once an algo where , for a patch to count as a Troo Patch, it must modify a chronicle.txt (along these lines)
asciilifeform: i was somehow quite certain that trinque had a pseudocode-algo for his improved vtron
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-30#1791427 << i proposed this at one point, and mircea_popescu (imho correctly) barfed, and one of the reasons was that it makes pressing irreversible (or at least reverse-walking becomes np-hard)☝︎
asciilifeform: phf: nothing fundamental or desirable or ever for that matter explicitly proclaimed, about pressing adjacent (sibling) patches that happen to get alphabet-sorted upward of $presshead
asciilifeform: phf fixed it immediately when he wrote his patchviewer vtron.
