log☇︎
459800+ entries in 0.305s
mircea_popescu: (same holds true for the recent downturn in actual marriages ended that way too)
mircea_popescu: the only reason there's no coke machine murder-suicides is the low value of the item.
mircea_popescu: imo most coke drinkers do about the coins and machines what they do about their hopes and wives
asciilifeform: again, the proposition is that there exists 'small change wizardry' which would find a place in a coke machine.
mircea_popescu: don't come to me with a model that requires turning wizards into coke machines. there's no power to do so and the effort would be overall -ev anwyay
asciilifeform: i wondered, often, if most 'coke' drinkers simply amortized the lost coins, mentally
mircea_popescu: the usg did NOT survive eating the coin merely a few times.
asciilifeform: by all rights the machines ought to have disappeared by now
asciilifeform: even though occasionally it eats the coin
asciilifeform: sorta like most folks are happy to use 'coke' machines
mircea_popescu: but when i tried that you said "it is a mistake to ask"
asciilifeform: i.e. the secrets are sufficiently cheap (not of cosmic significance)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only way he might consider it is if it were a ~bounded~ negative
mircea_popescu: why would THE WIZARD get involved in this, when there's an unbound negative result on the table.
asciilifeform: i must point out that i have sat on both sides of this (entirely absent) bench. both in search of secrets, ~and~ sitting on a small stash of 0days that will be buried with me ☟︎
mircea_popescu: anyway, by "magical dragon" i meant what you seem to mean by "wizard" just ftr.
mircea_popescu: your system goes to infinity.
mircea_popescu: that's ok, the rule is 0 1 infinity. ☟︎
asciilifeform: must be so impeccable that it does not visibly diminish from a single dissatisfied dragon - any more than planet earth visibly loses gravitational pull from a rocket launched to outer space
mircea_popescu: not an easy task for angels to actually walk the earth.
mircea_popescu: and the past few years have taught me a whole lot about the value and complexity of maintaining impeccability.
asciilifeform: on account of the impeccable reputation of the wizard who built it ?
mircea_popescu: why would magical dragon risk his magic to get involved in a system that may well tarnish it for no reason ?
kakobrekla: you need to call in ethereum
asciilifeform: i'm not certain that it does require it
mircea_popescu: the mistake is not to ask for it, the mistake is to contemplate a system that requires the question answered.
asciilifeform: it is a mistake to ask for a universal resolution to such a dispute, like asking for 'absolute velocity' in physics
mircea_popescu: so, he put in his key, and the result came out negatory. what now.
mircea_popescu: how are you going to resolve dispute between party a which claims it ate its key and party b which claims the key was junk ?
asciilifeform: the question of 'how do i know this candy dispenser contains candy and won't simply eat my key' is to be resolved using popescutronium (substance which powers atomic dirigible)
mircea_popescu: then again... the past 50 years would look a lot different if i were actually right.
mircea_popescu: i am inclined to believe the solution to this problem is psychanalisis not software development.
mircea_popescu: if that reason can be descreibed, is that reason anything but psychogenic ?
asciilifeform: if the human element is maximally removed.
mircea_popescu: is there any particular reason the amateur that's not in a kool dude wot now will manage to get in the kool dude wot of the proposed market ?
asciilifeform: because the incentive to actually sift through the raw data isn't presently there.
asciilifeform: the concept of 'if random d00d pwned $victim, so has everyone' is only approximately true.
mircea_popescu: it'd seem very superficially that if this is true the other name for it is "polichinelle's secret"
mircea_popescu: how we'd evaluate the "very often" ?
asciilifeform: very often, the secret in question is in possession of folks who presently have ~no~ way to monetize it - i am speaking specifically of amateurs who pwned, by way of idle exploration, the target - but are not in a 'k00l d00dz wot' where they can safely sell the result to anyone
mircea_popescu: and yes, chocolate bar. to the right bloke.
mircea_popescu: a) monkey b) possesses the key c) will let go IF - c1. not painful c2. food and shelter.
asciilifeform: whereas u.s. corporate monkeys ~will~ sell their login for a chocolate bar (empirically proven)
mircea_popescu: what you said is a metaphor for womanhood, not the other way around.
asciilifeform: woman is terrible metaphor here - there's ancient (pre-mammalian, even) 'egg defense' firmware at work
mircea_popescu: see how that's a metaphor for womanhood ?
asciilifeform: (monkey possesses the secret, will let go of it if he can do it at little personal risk and adequate reward)
mircea_popescu: you are trying to take the personal relationship out of sex.
asciilifeform: say i have a chip, from a certain vendor, for which no public documentation is known. it nominally allows firmware to be written, but not read back (most microcontroller vendors feature this.) i connect it to a programmable i/o board, and say 'supply the signals that cause it to spit out fw.'
mircea_popescu: in that example a) why would anyone accept to be paid less than the "cost to fuzz", and b) why would anyone opt to pay more thanb the "cost to fuzz" ?
mircea_popescu: i may be too slow for how fast this conversation has become, so gimme an example
asciilifeform: 'if you can supply a bitstring that makes mechanism x do y, get coin c'
asciilifeform: defined here specifically for the 'circumvented ~= passed' scenarios
mircea_popescu: because this computer may well save academia.
mircea_popescu: will the computer test if the thing it is testing has met the test or merely circumvented the test ?
asciilifeform: not proposing anything complex, really. something on the order of a bear trap
mircea_popescu: 100% of a meal made by tractor ?
mircea_popescu: 80% of a meal made by tractor - cheap
mircea_popescu: which is precisely what they be.
mircea_popescu: think of computers at tractors.
asciilifeform: and this could make the deal
asciilifeform: really? i'da thought human power is too expensive
mircea_popescu: the 100% automation is too expensive
asciilifeform: i.e., if some bozo announces the box, no one plays, but if mircea_popescu does - possible
mircea_popescu: ah, i wasn't. an' i'm not about to link the theory wqith the practice formally yet.
asciilifeform: i was speaking specifically of an automated system (riding on wot, naturally, for the 'why should i potentially waste valuable $secret' bit)
mircea_popescu: eh it's all over teh place :)
asciilifeform must have missed this ?
mircea_popescu: no lol, somewhere on trilema
mircea_popescu: well you might have noticed i AM making experiments in that province.
mircea_popescu: it is obviously new territory all this
asciilifeform: where, e.g., 'get btc if you can get this chip, connected to the net, to execute undocumented instruction'
asciilifeform: the reason i asked is not that i was whacked with a club over the head and turned into a tard overnight, but that instead i was thinking of certain very limited special cases of jurov's suggested '0day prize box'
asciilifeform: arguable that they didn't buy it, but only magic-amplifier
mircea_popescu: but that some is important and it falsifies a ~fundamental~ property of markets.
mircea_popescu: just, not you, and not for the being.
mircea_popescu: it works privately. there ~are~ dudes who get girlies to throw their soaking wet panties at them
mircea_popescu: they have a lot of common characteristics, yes, and the people "in" like to joke about it and pretend it's "the same". but... it is not.
asciilifeform: and yes, it'd be a kind of 'assassination' and therefore doesn't work in a public wot, and therefore - at all...
mircea_popescu: but the market you propose, like the market which consists of assassins, like the market which consists of whores, is eminently NOT a market like the market that consists of grain, or ddram chips.
mircea_popescu: contrary to public idiocy, bitcoin's not particularly adequate to the latter. then again, public idiocy thought trains go too fast so it'll make passengers asphixiate out of lack of oxigen and cars explode.
asciilifeform: it is trickier than first appears, because 'i want the s00p3r-s33kr1t floor plan for $fpga' is turing-complete (that is, whether the trade was an honest one is not resolvable by machine)
mircea_popescu: the connection i see is that the proposition of this market is about as silly as the proposition of the trivia bot. there are fundamental differences between what a market is and what an assassination market is.
jurov: reverse-engineered/leaked specs ==== trivia?
asciilifeform: i'd -like- to think there is a connection. just not sure what it is, quite yet.
mircea_popescu: or so you'd like to think.
assbot: Logged on 14-06-2015 01:46:51; HeySteve: yes, I was thinking trivia contests - maybe for BTC - would be fun
asciilifeform: !s trivia bot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean the trivia bot ?
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu who was that fella a while back who wanted to set up a btc-denominated market for reverse-engineered/leaked specs? (think, easily verifiable...!) and did it go anywhere ?
assbot: Logged on 14-06-2015 05:16:21; scoopbot_revived: Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Hits An All Time High http://qntra.net/2015/06/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-hits-an-all-time-high/
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-06-2015#1163764 << lol, do we get a newspiece every time this happens? 'you're older than you've ever been and now you're even older, ..., and now you're older still!' (tm) (r) ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: mats: good intro to subj. recall, perhaps in childhood, drawing 'random' pixels to screen, with atrocious prng ? could see pattern with naked eye.
scoopbot_revived: Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Hits An All Time High http://qntra.net/2015/06/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-hits-an-all-time-high/ ☟︎
mircea_popescu: lol and when's the click-ad thing expire ?
copypaste: your ad expired on the 13th so that's why it was removed
mircea_popescu: only in that it;s a coupla years late.
asciilifeform: reads like a usg disinfo, though
asciilifeform: from link, 'RUSSIA and China have cracked the top-secret cache of files stolen by the fugitive US whistleblower Edward Snowden, forcing MI6 to pull agents out of live operations in hostile countries, according to senior officials in Downing Street, the Home Office and the security services.' supposedly.
asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/06/ru-cn-snowden-1m-docs.htm << today from the lulzfarmz