log☇︎
45900+ entries in 0.299s
asciilifeform: naggum was chair of 'SGML SIGhyper' , an iso subcommittee as i understand
asciilifeform: i suspect that the search at one time worked.
asciilifeform: written by either shilbert or similar ( i fughet who ) , so lotta 'we pushed the sun uphill' 'history' mostly
mircea_popescu: but note that i don't give anyone the address to said bookshop if they seem confused as to who they're talking to.
mircea_popescu: from naggum's own self-characterization, he was a not-particularily-wanted epicycle in the whole sgml thing. am i missing something ?
asciilifeform: aha i think we had this thread
mircea_popescu: "oh if some fucktard who thinks he's a jew because his mother's an idiot says he is holocaustoffended ima say i studied goebbels!!1". wtf already.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i think proposing goebbels is a sort of ziggler-skinner is dismissive to the man.
asciilifeform: i'd be surprised if 'no original' , given the comment re 'I found was that (1) a whole bunch of nutcases thought that only neo-Nazis could be interested in Joseph Goebbels' works and movies...'
mircea_popescu: and i find it superlatively dubious that "i have made a study" relies on having reviewed no original materials but read chomsky's as cliffnotes. this is no way to get anywhere, and i suspect a large portion of chomsky detractors are actually almost-intelligent folk who tried to use him in this manner, got hurt in the process, and decided to assign blame, if possible to the tool they misused. chomsky is fine, but not if you're
asciilifeform: i was waiting for mircea_popescu to notice the bigger oddity
mircea_popescu: leaving aside the remarkable poverty of reference, i'd like at least for the few popitems he uses to be at the fucking least correct! ☟︎
mircea_popescu: that aside, there's a different serious problem : "Joseph Goebbels were _not_ concerned with propaganda towards the Jews. this is an historical fact." is what he says, but he says this in the exact manner of the man he otherplaces despises, "who forms a knowledge without having had the curiosity to study". the reason i even wrote http://trilema.com/2017/jud-suss/ is ~specifically because~ there's a lot of similar ignoramuses
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, i can't miss that for someone who read and traveled and so on as you say, naggum has a lot of trouble destructuring nubbinisms.
mircea_popescu: so i think the correct working of the system is well understood. similarily, that this system is not implemented correctly is also obvious. in this context, gat's one liner is perfectly sensible, what's the problem with it ?
asciilifeform: oddly enuff it is cop who 'explains', 'от имени Союза Советских Социалистических Республик , i now get in your way , for your having exceeded 10 times the speed of an unladen snail on this tuesday...'
asciilifeform: i dun have nearly enuff contact with the tv insanity
asciilifeform: sometimes i wonder if it's actually mircea_popescu working without gloves on the hot smoking factory floor of the insane asylum, and asciilifeform somehow is the one looking down from dirigible
mircea_popescu: bitch, i'm not explaining jack shit to you. YOU fucking explain to me how exactly you ended up with all this crap.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't see how the linked item supports the theory.
asciilifeform: i've looked for how to get him before.
mircea_popescu: "since about say 2010, there's a new generation of programers, whose mantra is “help”, “be positive”. They shy away from negative things, even occasional swearing. I consider them scumbags." << http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766301 not even terrible ; anyone know how ti invite the dood ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i'll confess i'm not very impressed with the nonsense. it's one thing to flame some idiot into the ground, but it's not clear to me gat/garrett met the criteria.\
asciilifeform: ( all i got is archaeology, i wasn't there; never met anybody who was there , only have the shards of the old pots. )
asciilifeform: that was the picture i got. largely from the c.l.l articles.
mircea_popescu: https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3242228166365080@naggum.no.html << sample eggregious piece ; dated 2002 so i guess the theory here is gat got depressed cca 2001 pissed off naggum who didn't know how to express self better ?
asciilifeform: to which naggum , not surprisingly , answered 'shuddup bitch, i am making money with payware lisps, my systems work, go be emo chick somewhere else'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's his issue with gat anyway, i always thought he was one of the more level headed mid generation lisper folk.
asciilifeform: but no, nobody gets to reinvent in the idjit-schoolboy-dreams sense of 'and then they forgot how to do it and i Show Them and Become Newton' or whichever
asciilifeform: ( the supurious concretization of 'future' i suspect is a root philosophical ill of 20th c, like the humanization of computer )
asciilifeform: i suspect mircea_popescu nailed the orig problem in the old article where 'and then they began to began to imagine that the machines are alive'
mircea_popescu: but when i have to tell the machine ~what I want~, as opposed to ~what the world is~, we're lost for sanity.
asciilifeform: can i persuade mircea_popescu into writing an essay
mircea_popescu: you'll have to excuse me while i make snese of what's actually left under this lid. so far -- not even a proper word for it.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 19:52 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766238 << this is a lot like "oh, handjob-appropriate tools, we have these leftower early sewing machines". no thanks. if i can't edit by hand it's a binary format.i want source.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766473 << i can't speak for mircea_popescu , but i have never edited a file 'by hand' , a la http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-25#643502 ☝︎☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766253 << same reason to do anything at all if we can't hope to overturn bitcoin. what, i'm going to invent periodic numeration systems now so various moderntards can feel euclid ? the idiocy pioneered by pantsuit "computer science" is an absces not a species. it shan't spread to other parts of human culture nor will it manage to hold on to computing, innovation-for-tyhe-sake-of-inca-distrib ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 14:44 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766223 << i parsed the sentence differently --' idiot individualist' implying the existence of 'smart individualist', who is able to make use of a platoon of hands, rather than be crippled by 'committeeism'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766238 << this is a lot like "oh, handjob-appropriate tools, we have these leftower early sewing machines". no thanks. if i can't edit by hand it's a binary format.i want source. ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/so-the-dollar-vigilante-scam-ring-is-going-to-jail/ << here, i think, it is
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you're curious, by the way, the origin of the "corporatization" so to speak is that ancient trick from, if i memory serves, dickens (but could be any other pulp copywriter) : that the visible boss prefers to pretend a silent partner is there disallowing the whatever, so he can have both cake and eat it too (ie, comiserate with worker but not indulge worker idiocy).
asciilifeform: this is what i meant in 'and then the hump of the bellcurve came for it'.
mircea_popescu: yes, when they decided it is "a goal". there's an exceptional line in mimi, metalurgico ferito nel'onore, where some idiots go "ma figli ce li abbiamo tutti, e c'e chi si fa cazzi di tutti e chi si fa i cazzi suoi!"
asciilifeform: i'm curious re the 'they all grow up into the same thing if given the chance' item.
asciilifeform: i dun have a mechanized pill against this.
asciilifeform: i dunno that this is false. but seems to resemble what i said re revolutions killing civilizations -- that errything senesces , bloats, dies in the end.
mircea_popescu: i suppose it was, at that.
mircea_popescu: epicycles are the idea that "i justwant to", which is neither single nor coherent. it is however a simple and comfortable idea.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 16:44 esthlos: o course, like you have been saying asciilifeform, it's epicycles. but at least epicycles are a single coherent idea! (i.e. fourier transform)
esthlos: o course, like you have been saying asciilifeform, it's epicycles. but at least epicycles are a single coherent idea! (i.e. fourier transform)
mircea_popescu: i guess the above was #1 ; but in more general form : how would a PSTP ("plaintext" sexpr transport protocol) actually look ? ie, use sexpr to deliver the above required property.
mircea_popescu: i don't recall a handshake of this sort. but many years.
asciilifeform: now this i cannot say.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform different meaning, which is why i used quotes.
mircea_popescu: if i don't get the topstruct and if i can't throw out any up to n-1 elements out of n on my own time, it's broken.
mircea_popescu: "really, i don't use it either, but i like to talk about it"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i don't use it.
mircea_popescu: and no, i don't use https ; and no, not gzipped. and so on.
mircea_popescu: I DO NOT WANT the images to be part of the samestream ; or ANYTHING ELSE. half the time i don't even download the images.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 14:23 asciilifeform: gzip was never purpose-built for this. nao picture if it were. naggum, as far as i can tell, wanted a compactly-encoded binform of sexpr as standard, to put plaintextism into its overdue grave.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766234 << no dude, he a) doesn't have any fucking idea what he wanted, which is shocking enough, but b) what he SAYS he wanted is nonsense beyond the pale. "images could have traveled in the same stream!!!" says the man whose signature says "hey, i have nigerian scam options in excess of a trillion that i'm not exercising, you can stop sending me more". really ? wtf is wrong with him ? ☝︎
asciilifeform: fg per se is , i will argue , ~also~ a comp, it has a few bits of state, accepts input , of a kind, over time, computes a certain function, emits output.
esthlos: i know buzzword, 'register machine'
esthlos: I suppose I don't know, then, what i'm misisng. but certainly I couldnt cogently argue why x86 sucks besides 'von neumann lol'
asciilifeform: this is entirely separate problem from 'i don't know how a 6502 worked'
esthlos: o course, like you have been saying asciilifeform, it's epicycles. but at least epicycles are a single coherent idea! (i.e. fourier transform) ☟︎
esthlos: i've read https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Elements_of_Computing_Systems.html?id=THie6tt-2z8C&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button#v=onepage&q&f=false
asciilifeform: shinohai: so did i
asciilifeform: where e.g. 'since about say 2010, there's a new generation of programers, whose mantra is “help”, “be positive”. They shy away from negative things, even occasional swearing. I consider them scumbags. Many young star coders are of this ilk.'
shinohai: It may sound retarded, but I learned how XOR and NAND gates work by reading Forrest Mimm books and building the shit on a breadboard.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. ' i know how addition works but not how to make a cpu that fetches instructions ...' ? )
esthlos: effectively, electronics are black boxes. I know how to use logic gates to add, store stuff, etc., but only the theory
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766198 << neato PeterL. though apparently the resolution of the timer is better than i thought, so probably the weight test should have been written like this, ☝︎
asciilifeform: the gprbuild thing hasn't changed since ch1, also, and i dun expect that it ever will ( unlike makefiles, these dun need to )
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 08:39 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766177 <- I switched to adacore at some point, when I had enough of all sorts of weird trouble essentially; never had that specific type of problem though
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766206 << after ffa i'ma necessarily move on to the chore of nailing down gnat. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 09:01 mircea_popescu: and holy shit the indescribably mixed bag that naggum brings to the table. take https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3216002118211980@naggum.net.html as well as anything : the post-scriptum reads "the past is not more important than the future" NEET cultish wank (re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763821 ), even as the text reads "the past is STILL, and NECESSARILY forever will be, more important than the future -- if it i
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766211 << the classical j00z have the 'past is moar important' jumpers set to max: iirc they have a 'the further we get from moses, the moar of god-given wisdom is lost', i.e. nonrenewable resource. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 11:29 mircea_popescu: https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3242173964750774@naggum.no.html << take this gem. "The idiot individualist with megalomania will think that others are his inferiors, that people who work in groups never get anything done while he can get a lot done alone." vs "I am far more conscious in general than other people." BITCH WHICH IS IT!!!1
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766223 << i parsed the sentence differently --' idiot individualist' implying the existence of 'smart individualist', who is able to make use of a platoon of hands, rather than be crippled by 'committeeism' ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: i vaguely suspect that without periodic catastrophes where elite is butchered ( dun matter so much by whom, barbarians, jacobins, or plague ) you end up with the castes of india . but naturally not testable.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 10:18 mircea_popescu: "but mp, work here is intended to mean that the niggers can spawn a replacement society that'll be just as good as the thing they originally pillaged". "sure, and for the same definition of just as good i could replace you all with cultured strep, how about that."
asciilifeform: gzip was never purpose-built for this. nao picture if it were. naggum, as far as i can tell, wanted a compactly-encoded binform of sexpr as standard, to put plaintextism into its overdue grave. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: now, that the whole "french people can technology too!" olivetti-document-format went nowhere is, i think, neither surprising nor in anyone's estimation a bad thing ; but divorced from that, the claim that pdf-ttp would have been an improvement ?! wtf is this guy talking about ?
mircea_popescu: rt to keep the ODA and ODIF folks at bay and was a purely political stunt, not intended to be implemented. When I went ahead and did it, I was not exactly applauded for the effort. The fact that it was /vastly/ more efficient in all respects than the stupid character syntax was /most/ unwelcome by the community."
mircea_popescu: "By the way, the SGML Document Interchange Format (ISO 9069) uses ASN.1 to ship SGML documents around. I wrote an implementation of SDIF in three days. Test runs showed that a major CALS application consumed approximately 40% of the character count of the SGML file, and with the then commonly available tools to parse and process SGML documents and ASN.1 processors, the SDIF data stream took around 1/200th as much CPU time and
mircea_popescu: https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3242173964750774@naggum.no.html << take this gem. "The idiot individualist with megalomania will think that others are his inferiors, that people who work in groups never get anything done while he can get a lot done alone." vs "I am far more conscious in general than other people." BITCH WHICH IS IT!!!1 ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "but mp, work here is intended to mean that the niggers can spawn a replacement society that'll be just as good as the thing they originally pillaged". "sure, and for the same definition of just as good i could replace you all with cultured strep, how about that." ☟︎
mircea_popescu: and holy shit the indescribably mixed bag that naggum brings to the table. take https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3216002118211980@naggum.net.html as well as anything : the post-scriptum reads "the past is not more important than the future" NEET cultish wank (re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763821 ), even as the text reads "the past is STILL, and NECESSARILY forever will be, more important than the future -- if it i ☝︎☟︎
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766177 <- I switched to adacore at some point, when I had enough of all sorts of weird trouble essentially; never had that specific type of problem though ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766190 << i see it. ☝︎
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1766126 << so I was like "how hard could this be?" and I am trying to wrap my head around what this comes from, so I open up the gpg source code, and bleh, code is sooo much easier to read when it is written in ada by asciilifeform! ☝︎
esthlos: i will try on eulora box once its spun up.
mod6: i did just press & compile up through chapter 6 successfully. so that works at least.
mod6: i use that adacore version fwiw
mod6: ok. i've not seen any error like that for sometime now, definitely predates the recent loper-os posts.
esthlos: i got no acl/selinux nonsense or whatever
asciilifeform: presently i suspect that gpl-gnat has succumbed to the work of wreckers. ~100% of the barfology to date, has been from gpl-gnat users with astonishingly variously rotted carcasses in place of a working compiler
asciilifeform: ( there is no reason why this ought to be necessary, this is the 1st report of this type of barf i've seen , in reading yr+ of various barf reports re gnat )
esthlos: if you don't have any leads i'll mess around i suppose