log☇︎
45800+ entries in 0.314s
mircea_popescu: there's nothing fundamentally wrong with a non-mining coin, ie, where all coins are created at t0.
phf: well, if you baked in color support, your code periodically enables a color mode, but doesn't immediately disable it. instead colors spit out as the execution unfolds. but if you catch an interrupt, you end up with a borked terminal. hence fucking complicated ass signal machinery to ensure that color gets restored on hup or suspend
phf: there's a concrete answer to that question!
phf: trick question, why do you need a signal handler in a differ? ☟︎
phf: not to mention a fucking palette parser
asciilifeform: i suspect that if you ditch autoconf, and snip out ALL #ifdef crapola (esp. and inclusive of uniturdism and 'localism' ) you will end up with a sysv-sized util
phf: well, autoconf is not just scripts. it's also compatibility shims, which is a bit tricky in case of a differ, since, unlike mpi, it has a lot of file system interaction code, that might or might not be portable. anyway, we'll see
asciilifeform: to round out the crackpottery : i've described what is more or less a working variant of ye olde warcrime, the multiverse coin ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( to complete the picture above : no pow, but a tx ~does~ carry a lubyism, e.g. three lengths of 64bits , each of these the xor of 3 64bit substrings of the world-state, hashtronically selected based ~strictly on the tx payload's hash~ -- nothing to waltz, yer stuck with so-and-so lubyism obligation to fulfill by virtue of yer inputs being such-an-such and yer outputs such-an-such )
asciilifeform: i modelled this item on paper, and did not find any obvious place in which to put a crowbar and make the thing break apart in the 'rewrite history' sense.
asciilifeform: however there is no block reward. anyone can proclaim a block, so long as he can find one or more valid tx that haven't sat down in a block yet. the 'pow value' of the block , for the purpose of longest-chain, however, consists of the ~total coins moved~ in the tx-en that sat down in it.
asciilifeform: prolly i'm doomed to describe a complete algo nao. so consider : no pow. a block is 2^20 bytes . it can hold a certain # of fixed-length tx ( i will not repeat earlier scheme, with the luby etc., imho it was adequate. ) ;
asciilifeform: ( i.e. when you craft such a tx, you're doing it against a specific picture of whole blockchain, from t==0 to your highestknownblock )
asciilifeform: w for antireplay ? can you picture a scheme where... it doesn't.
asciilifeform: upstack re pow item : i'ma leave an observation for mircea_popescu ( and others, but he's prolly the one to crack this nut properly ) . consider how in classical bitcoin , pow is used for 2 entirely different and quite orthogonal items : initialcoindistribution, and rewindprotection (i.e. preventing history-rewriting) . it's a bulldog-rhinoceros. so q is, suppose that coin distribution somehow took place at t==0. do you still need po
phf does a little jig
phf has been listening to The Dubliners, has a skewed perspective on work at the moment
a111: Logged on 2016-06-20 04:23 phf: which is handy if you're using something else to produce the patch, or if you need to use a non-trivial diff command. for example i sometimes need to exclude files from diffing, so a command might look like diff -x foo -x bar -x qux -ruN a b | grep -v '^Binary files ' | vdiff > foo.vpatch
phf: there's a couple of places where regex is used. exclude filters files by name, (so --exclude=.*c will skip those files by regex), exclude lines filters lines (obviously is not compatible with v), and there's also a function grabber, it's a little piece of code that ensures that, say, c function headers or certain pattern matching lines are in the hunk context
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 23:58 asciilifeform: ( it is specifically a pill against 'can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others' aspect )
shinohai: But I always like my apple kyklos cake a bit crumbly
asciilifeform: ( it is specifically a pill against 'can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others' aspect ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: upstack in re 'mining is a bug' , asciilifeform has a theoretical pill, potentially interesting , but will chew on it for some weeks -- there's gotta be a catch
a111: Logged on 2017-12-02 16:22 mircea_popescu: anwyay, revisiting an ancient conversation re http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mining+is+a+bug : i have to thoroughly concede this point to asciilifeform . the model is as follows : if a) a PoW system exists in which b) a participating entity can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others then it NECESSARILY follow that entity can, and therefore it ALSO follows that it eventually will c) impose further con
asciilifeform: after 5yr of thinking about it daily, asciilifeform still has nfi what even ought to be asked of a pow !! ☟︎
asciilifeform: it's a bad thing if you want 'asic-resistant' or even fpga-resistant
mircea_popescu: not sure that is a bad thing. but yes, evidently large topic for discussion.
mircea_popescu: but the contention here is that picking something like modexp is a better choice than just piling on hashes.
asciilifeform: so miner waltzed his nonce until it's a composite and trivial
mircea_popescu: let's take a = every other bit of n. to mine this block, you must produce an x so that x is twice the bitsize of n, and (x+a)^n is mod congruent to x^n + a (mod n)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: humour me, how wouldja turn this into a pow
mircea_popescu: incidentally...if this is so fucking slow... guess who just found a new pow.
mircea_popescu: (which, i confess, striked/strikes me as a seductively good idea)
mircea_popescu: but the base factor can't be this fucking humongous ffs, it's just (x+a)^n vs x^n+a.
asciilifeform: i was hoping to find that i made a mistake, but the numberz check out.
asciilifeform: if somebody made a practical aks, it is a deep, dark seekrit from asciilifeform . ☟︎
asciilifeform: for a 14 BIT NUMBER
mircea_popescu: it's a finite set of factors, they work together into fixed bitnesses only so many ways.
mircea_popescu: each of these factors will have a bitness. admitting none of them has a bitness = 2048, they can be arranged into a p and a q so that each of these has a bitness of 2048
mircea_popescu: the ~other~ part of it is : suppose (i don't have example ready, but constructively) there's a N that popped into factors f1... fm.
asciilifeform: and the bottom item was reported as a factor on account of each, taken separately, having passed gmp's m-r after the 1st was found.
asciilifeform: only to a numbers that are factors of 2 or moar moduli. and they dun come with any certificate of primality, except for the smallest 'dust' ones
asciilifeform: phuctor finds a divisor. if it is toobig for sieving, i'm left with m-r, when asking whether it is a ~prime~ divisor.
mircea_popescu: bernstein smooth parts of integers empowered sieve popped a factor ?
mircea_popescu: and i have a good mind to mandate eucrypt impl of m-r actually uses 2^8 ie 256 as minimum.
mircea_popescu: ie gpg is wasting its time with "oh, let's see if 2 is a witness".
mircea_popescu: (for the record : it is a fact that there exist infinite composites so that their SMALLEST witness is at least ln (n) ^ 1/(3 * ln (ln(ln(n))). yet "cryptography community" keeps doing this small witness bs.)
mircea_popescu: iirc there was a "study" showing how "it is enough to test these" for whatever size.
asciilifeform currently suspects that none will, but nobody suspects worth a damn until -- found
mircea_popescu: a composite that passes a low round m-r can be composite of >2 factors np.
mircea_popescu: this'd be a special alternate because we're very unhappy with the fact that a) "everonye" (=usg) uses m-r and b) evidently lies about the strength assumptions.
asciilifeform: esthlos: point is , there exists a guaranteed-correct algo. using it, supposing it were practical, is The One Right Thing
esthlos: noob question: why not use a fast nondeterministic algo and sieve on the results?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes had something resembling a CL one
mircea_popescu: esthlos not a bad idea. what's your language ?
esthlos: mircea_popescu: alright. I've been thinking of writing a v implementation following http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/
mircea_popescu: that said, a gmp version pushed out as a patch on mpi might not be entirely without merit.
mircea_popescu: esthlos i'd love for you to be able to jump straight into this ; however there's some groundwork to be laid. look into the V system, because ideally you'd be presenting the finished item as a patch on diana's eucrypt lib. and asciilifeform is working on and publishing a final FFA which is what we intend to use here.
asciilifeform: there was a version given to mod6 , should be in the log somewhere , that had all of the basic arithmetic (+,-,*,/)
asciilifeform: this is tricky business because i changed a great many things, ch1-3 is in many ways incompatible with the old item
mircea_popescu: rather than being all negative!!!, got a review copy of ffa somewhere to pass to esthlos ?
asciilifeform: ( where asciilifeform observed that, for serious battlefield key, a month of pre-use m-r, plus a box doing it continuously ~4evah , is not excessive )
asciilifeform: matter of fact, it is. unless there's been a serious advance that i slept through
mircea_popescu: do i get a closed set to pick amongst ?
esthlos: mircea_popescu: is there a preference on how I compute totient?
mircea_popescu: http://yves.gallot.pagesperso-orange.fr/arbregen.html << tho apparently there's a genealogy tree going back to 1600s, so how bad can it be.
mircea_popescu: esthlos ada. see ffa for a basis
mircea_popescu: actually it's possible bernstein had a variant too.
mircea_popescu: given n > 2 and a coprime to n, n is prime only if (x+a)^n mod-congruent x^n+a (mod n)
mircea_popescu: you know, three indian kids got a godel prize a decade ago for the first ever primality test that's deterministic, polynomial and unconditional
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I think this might be worth made into a knob in the code explicitly
mircea_popescu: diana_coman should prolly add a comment in there pointing out to people who are making keys for serious use that 1e-10 is really not nearly good enough.
mircea_popescu: seems a gratuitous (but not readily computable) degradation of the 4^-k outer bound.
mircea_popescu: anyone with a good reason why magic number should stay ?
mircea_popescu: in other news : the mpi m-r implementation has a fixed witness at 2.
asciilifeform: hmm, could've sworn we had a thread...
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> Tenth of a bitcent per hour fine with me per hour << Perhaps the baroness can?
shinohai: Tenth of a bitcent per hour fine with me per hour
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, i myself wasn't making a current bitcent an hour until sometime after 2010. ie, quite recently.
ben_vulpes: what a fuckin thing.
ben_vulpes: holy fuckadoodle, imagine getting paid a bitcent an hour to do your six months
trinque: texanism with either a little girl or queer connotation
mircea_popescu: faff. i didn't even know that was a word.
ben_vulpes: dude this is epic, girl would rather talk about calendar offsets than earn a bitcent an hour reading the log ☟︎
sofiababy: its a month latter i think
mircea_popescu: the result is a matter of necessity in those circumstances.
ben_vulpes: dude a bitcent an hour
mircea_popescu: nothing interesting can happen on mfc because mfc is composed of a) the people there who b) operate under the delusion they may make choices.
sofiababy: one hell of a woman
sofiababy: shes stil a woman
sofiababy: is a woman
mircea_popescu: who, other than being a major fascist supporter, was also a guy reputedly so smart, some woman wrote to him to propose having babies on the theory she's so pretty.
asciilifeform: i r disappoint, i thought this was a jaguar , that mircea_popescu taught to use a keyboard
sofiababy: im a woman
mircea_popescu: everyone's a nerd deep down. way the fuck easier than being a miner deep down.
sofiababy: im a nerd
mircea_popescu: go to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753439 which is a webpage like any other webpage and start reading down from there. ☝︎
sofiababy: there is a delay
mircea_popescu: hm, must be a recorded thing.
mircea_popescu: give that lh0 or what was it a run for its money lol.