log☇︎
43600+ entries in 0.371s
mircea_popescu: this is like starting a new paragraph on double \n and also on double l.
mircea_popescu: "intelligence is only a labor-saving device. less intelligent people can in principle create just as elegant solutions, but it would normally take them more effort to get there." <<< ajhaha NO! FUCKING! WAY!
mircea_popescu: yeah, trilema not a very good field for the "oh, ima be vague" approach. it's called trilema because it has at least three of everything!
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763821 << lol "what did you run into?" "an article about rape." oh, THAT one.... about as useful a criterion for a trilema article by now as "has sentences" and "occasionally punctuated" ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 18:44 phf: esthlos: reflecting on it a bit, tricky part of k&p for plain text is de-hyphenating for reflow
mircea_popescu: http://wingolog.org/archives/2017/09/05/a-new-interview-question#cd7ce15868f2195baa8586069393901a4b2e182e for the record.
mircea_popescu: all these fucktards "being involved" in various topics through insistently discussing what they read in hustler. jacking off doesn't make you a beautician/car mechanic/architect/dentist/etcetera. it may make you blind, apparently, to the world around, but whatevs.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764186 << so i dutifully follow, and i duly end up on " I have a new interview question, and you can have it too: "The industry has a gender balance problem. Why is this?" [ed: see postscript]" ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 18:41 esthlos: guys like alan kay push a certain political narrative, but it doesnt add up
asciilifeform: it is that. but also imho a reasonable engineering term. it describes the engineering equivalent of obesity
mircea_popescu: well, so then, "alien problem is how an authority may choose to communicate the excommunication of a class of activity" lel.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
asciilifeform: 'alien problem' is how one says to the folx who maneuver themselves into a dead end, and who very much were architects of their own misfortune, that their problems are NOT 'the problem of all mankind' and that to construct for them 'solutions', such as they would accept, is harmful to the sane
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a difference between poet ignoring language convention and junior high "innocent bystander who happens to be black" ignoring same.
mircea_popescu: the epicycles, before removal, a) had a history whcih b) was understood by the removers. the "alien problem" is how lazy jwz say "i don't want to read", by and large.
mircea_popescu: now then, back to the issue : i suspect "alien problem" is a worse than useless heuristic, in the exact sense "web metric" are a worse than useless management aid.
asciilifeform: 'to pull rabbit from a hat, he must be actually in the hat'
asciilifeform: the litmus asciilifeform lives with is, roughly: show him a pertinent item made of 'maths he hasn't learned'; is response 'hmm, lemme disappear for a week into my study and come back' or ... 'I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO !111'
mircea_popescu: it is easy to come up with a partition one can live with himself.
mircea_popescu: "oh, DO WE STILL HAVE TO DO THIS ?!?!?! IN 2018 ?!?! EPICYCLES ?!?!?". gimme a break, you can't light a fucking lightbulb. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-31 16:39 mircea_popescu: don't lie, because if you do you form a sort of mental habit that will prevent you from ever inventing anything.
mircea_popescu: so following recursively down the rabbit hole (see http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-31#1761834 ) it then follows that this being a problem "they shouldn't have to have" etcetera. ☝︎
asciilifeform: and i'll point out that orig term was not coined in pantsuitistan, but by ilkka k, a surprisingly sane mathematics d00d
mircea_popescu: fine, you rescued what was previously 100% pantsuit wank into a 99.(9)% item.
asciilifeform: here's a trivial corpse of an epicycle straight from asciilifeform's desk : normalization in bignummery
mircea_popescu: (ftr, "epicycles" here is a categorical term to describe an array of fixes attempted to bring ptolemaic system astrology in line with observable reality)
mircea_popescu: what fucking human rights. they're not a kind of epicycles, they're a kind of jokicicles.
asciilifeform: not that it's a bad example, but 'human rights' is 'easy' bunkum , unlikely to be confused with a physically-existing item except by the deliberately mendacious folks and their useful idiots
mircea_popescu: seems to me a fucking human right, this. neh ?
mircea_popescu: this is uninteresting until you stop to consider that the "fascist" ancien regime (that's the word you'd use today, right ?) did NOT have the fucking ability to deny people taking a shit when they felt like taking a shit.
mircea_popescu: here's a point of discussion : in the palace of versailles, the desicated excrement in the corners of the hallways was swept away once a week.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764095 << scheuristic, ie, the schelling heuristic. like a point, except a heuristic. btw, is the point clear there ? not that "epicycles weren't abolished", but that "the substantial difference between the real item, ie, epicycles, which were so abolished, and the pantsuitology item, ie clothespin, which never existed, is exactly of the nature of defeated-enemy vs defeated-strawman" ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 00:02 asciilifeform: ( why ? e.g. naggum's canonical 'if all you need is for something to "work", and you don't give a damn when and how it fails, C++ and Perl is for you. if you care deeply about not having your software fail, you would naturally feel a correspondingly deep sense of betrayal from the authors of both languages -- because they make it so damn hard to express the fact that you do care about the failure modes.' )
asciilifeform: ( though will point out, consequences of this type of leak, is early death of the proggy, rather than 'ballons into red dwarf' a la prb or firefox )
shinohai: Comedy that ben_vulpes might enjoy: http://archive.is/9gkfT "If we see more female figures on traffic lights that might also have a positive impact on changing the way we view the world."
asciilifeform: it isn't a leak, as such, isn't a heap
mircea_popescu: but WHY would someone involved DO THIS. it's like dentist going "and here's a squirrel i put wooden teeth into. they were plywood and didn't work very well, it's not intended for geriatric care"
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 15:55 phf: heh "Classification of Dugin as a fascist is justified, regardless of the fact that today the MGU professor frequently speaks not as a primitive ethnocentrist or biological racist. (...) By «fascist» we understand the «generic» meaning of the concept, used in comparatory research of contemporary right-wing extremism by such well-known historians-comparativists [etc.]
mircea_popescu: is not intended as a final implementation." (the original 80wrap braindamage has been fixed). I CAN SCARCELY APPREHEND ETC
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763745 << /me dutifully follows, and duly falls upon "2) What was not implemented until recently was functions returning unconstrained arrays. This is a very tricky thing to do, as I'll describe in a moment. The week before Tri-Ada, I added a temporary, kludgy implementation to GNAT. About the only thing it had to say for itself is that it worked, but it creates serious memory leaks. It ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763733 << consider the concept of "turkey dollars" ; http://trilema.com/2012/lets-dig-a-little-deeper-into-this-entire-deflation-problem/ ☝︎
asciilifeform: right, 'engineer' is more a psychological term to asciilifeform , rather like rpg character class, than diploma. ☟︎
Matthew: also spoke to u for a second the other night
Matthew: and hear about a church
asciilifeform: ( why ? e.g. naggum's canonical 'if all you need is for something to "work", and you don't give a damn when and how it fails, C++ and Perl is for you. if you care deeply about not having your software fail, you would naturally feel a correspondingly deep sense of betrayal from the authors of both languages -- because they make it so damn hard to express the fact that you do care about the failure modes.' ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: Matthew: hang around for a few hrs, he will probably come back
phf: it is habit, and convention and all kinds of easily iconoclastible things. for example i can usually recognize a proper lisp program by its shape, but those are usually written by people who have established those conventions to begin with
asciilifeform: iirc diana_coman started as a mathematician , neh ?
diana_coman: I suspect all of it, one way or the other IS a matter of habit really; it might even be that I simply programmed overall too little compared to reading non-programming (programmed at school+uni+few years after that and then ran for the hills until I got drawn back because eulora)
phf: in a proper program 80 col is an indicator of s/n, density and all kinds of lateral properties, that can be communicated between professionals, because you can know ahead of time, what you're dealing with by shape, and have a rough estimate for the token count ☟︎☟︎
diana_coman has just cleared desk again getting rid of a pile of papers used for this ch4
diana_coman: and paper+writing a lot before any need for keyboard, but I still get annoyed at multi-line stuff that is ... one thing otherwise, ugh
diana_coman: I do a lot of code-reading WITH paper + pencil; but that means more writing than printing really
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i am one of those weirdos who still does a large amt of his programming -- and the bulk of his code-reading -- on paper.
asciilifeform: more or less all prog langs give a clean way to multilineize strings
asciilifeform: a real Lisp world would be so much better. however, a real Lisp world cannot win as long as GUILE is the image people have of a Lisp environment, just like Lisp has suffered tremendously from the Scheme people's insistence that Scheme as taught to college students is what they should expect from Lisp.'
asciilifeform: inefficiency are bad for Lisp, which would have done it a lot better had it been in control, but GUILE doesn't do it any better. GUILE combines the worst of both worlds, in an attempt to bring the best of one world to a world where it doesn't really belong. on top of this, it's Scheme, and it's expensive to run, there's so much wrong with it that nobody can use it without fixing some part of it. so, it's going to be a winner, but
asciilifeform: https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3129441516179845@naggum.no.html << relatedly. >> 'the problem with retrofitting a Lisp or Scheme onto Unix is that Unix really is a C programming environment, and using the C mindset when building Lisp or Scheme applications or systems on top of it loses. the same is true of any other programming language with an environment that takes the role of Unix for C.'
asciilifeform: >> '...when I look at Scheme programs that try to do more than trivial tasks, or at Scheme systems that try to give people a framework to work in, I get the "perl experience" -- heaps of ugly but useful hacks to get some short-term job done. seems to me that the flip side of the "only the most elegant are admitted" argument is that there is no lower bound on the ugliness of what is _not_ admitted, yet necessary to get there in pract
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 17:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at some point phf will implement a wordwrap ; which can be done for browser window.
danielpbarron: https://youtu.be/tNXyichewJw << the link btw. i'm mentioned a little past half way
vap0r: im on phone but gimme a bit and ill get u one
danielpbarron: got a RSA key?
phf: a is for aparheid, old boy, fancy a cop of tea?
ben_vulpes: 2017's "a is for activist" -- b&. 1933's french colonial propaganda -- celebrated.
ben_vulpes: in other lols, my 1933 babar reprint just arrived and it is a delightful paen to colonialism
phf: a forced popup that warns you that you're sending to http from https, but there's no about:config to disable the popup. 9 years of "ffs put a boolean in configs, you fucks" ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( this is almost possibly the first litmus for a n00b : will he read logs when told to ? show symptoms of actually having done so, and learne d? )
jpxe: ben_vulpes: There a reason the first site doesn't use SSL?
ben_vulpes: and familiarize yourself with v ( http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system ), read logs for six months...
danielpbarron: he was asking for a job so i asked if he had tits, he didn't, so i said do you know lisp or ada
danielpbarron: there's a bunch of ongoing projects in here, and ADA is a prefered language
phf: ben_vulpes: http://rense.com/general6/ouch.htm, https://rape-axe.com/, http://www.sapiensbryan.com/femdefence-a-protection-against-rape/
asciilifeform: ReadErr: when you 'download proggy from shithub', it is exactly same act as if you could, in a restaurant, order '1 cubic litre from public dump' as a dish. complete with whatever happens to be scopped out, used condoms, syringes, rotten vegetables, dead rats
BingoBoingo: In other news from the price is right department: "The personal information of more than a billion Indians stored in the world's largest biometric database can be bought online for less than $8, according to an investigation by an Indian newspaper." ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( likbez : all you need for the mythical holy grail, 'fast iron rsa', is a very large-bitnessed adder-cum-barrelshifter and a few storage registers that can be programmatically shuffled between. ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: naggum had a perl rant , re how it typifies fungus-growth media by supplying young cocklets with inexhaustible fountain of trivial breakages to 'cleverly' work around
BingoBoingo: "This industry has a race problem, how do we fix it?"
phf: "Oh, good evening my hackfriends! I am just chuffed to share a thing with yall: tomorrow we release Guile 2.2.0. Yaaaay!"
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 18:42 asciilifeform: esthlos: sanity, esp when it has a short-term cost, is not the default. your null hypothesis is broken.
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764185 << bah, let me keep my youthful naviete a little longer ☝︎
asciilifeform: 'My conclusion from the interaction is that, now more than ever, when it comes to future collaborators, in any context, it is important for anyone for whom justice matters to probe candidates deeply for fascist tendencies. If they show a sign, pass. Anti-immigrant, anti-woman, anti-queer, and anti-black behaviors and actions often correlate: if you see one sign, often there are more underneath. Even if the person claims to value egal
asciilifeform: 'trying to get them closer to a justice-affirming perspective'
phf: esthlos: reflecting on it a bit, tricky part of k&p for plain text is de-hyphenating for reflow ☟︎
asciilifeform: esthlos: sanity, esp when it has a short-term cost, is not the default. your null hypothesis is broken. ☟︎
esthlos: guys like alan kay push a certain political narrative, but it doesnt add up ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2014-04-10 21:08 asciilifeform: phun phact. msdos 'edit' is actually 'qbasic', with the basic ineptly commented out - in such a way that the code is still buried in the binary.
mircea_popescu: but certainly a possibility.
asciilifeform: dunno that 'isms' play into it. it's a firmware call, 'pet chix dismembered in front of you ? banzai'
phf: esthlos: i was wrong, i remember looking at knuth&plass implementation in elisp a decade ago, but it's not in mainline. incidentally you could wire own k&p into normal-auto-fill-function..
mircea_popescu: this is a subtle matter. did they banzai "because such world as it is not worth my time" or did they "because her world must be defended!"
mircea_popescu: now THAT is a fine fucking example of a problem you don't want to ever have : when your problems are resolvable by whining it's not unlike when your washing is resolved by the ocean : you're fucked.
mircea_popescu: "i shouldn't have to strip to get an A, i shouldn't have to suck cock to get a job, i shouldn't have to fuck the customer to keep it, i shouldn't have to..."
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763687 << the example used notwithstanding, i suspect this is a large portion of what goes on in, eg, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763821 "minds". ☝︎☝︎
mircea_popescu: maybe one of these days they build a... TOWER.
shinohai: Ah but Best Korea no longer has just a switch, but a KEYBOARD
mircea_popescu: consider as a fine applicaiton of recursion just how "ugly" (from a purely complexity-boundedness pov) this discussion of, let's recall, originally http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764040 got. and within a short time. ☝︎
asciilifeform: it is only to very limited extent forward . ( recall the 'physicists have a duty to press for clean unification' asciilifeform thread )
mircea_popescu: well, i thought it was being proposed as a forward looking heuristic.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that many problems admit retrospective solutions is not at issue here ; the whole content of "i suspect the notion of "shouldn't even be having" is 100% pantsuit wank." is that "alien problems" are an artefact of the retelling of history (esp if with a purpose) rarther than of the making of history.