900+ entries in 0.371s
shinohai: Busybox on
pogo mount: mounting /dev/sda1 on /tmp/usb failed: Invalid argument
shinohai: whelp I hve a
pogo now. A blank canvas, if you will.
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 08:50:06; jurov: or try to precisely pinpoint which packet is from
pogo and which is from other machines?
jurov: or try to precisely pinpoint which packet is from
pogo and which is from other machines?
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 01:40:33; asciilifeform: this is realistic, because nothing but
pogo will seriously fail if this were done
decimation: or alternatively "Step one: after booting, ensure the
pogo has acquired accurate time"
mircea_popescu: "so you'd like to learn more about bitcoin ? here's a
pogo and here's a webpage, make it work"
decimation: neither do I. but assuming the
pogo isn't a complete bust, someone's gonna have to evaluate the risk
decimation: I would agree that if the
pogo needs to be launched into space, it wouldn't be such a bad thing if it knew where it was on the internet topology, especially relative to other bitcoin nodes
decimation: so if the
pogo syncs to a random node once per month and keeps time within a few minutes, it'll be fine
decimation: I would also note that if the
pogo clock varies in a systematic way (constant frequency error)
BingoBoingo: Perhaps L1 and L2
pogo impregnators should herd the impregnated pogos
decimation: I dispuse the 'nothing but
pogo would fail'
ascii_field: shinohai:
pogo has 128M of ram, soldered on.
shinohai: I was hoping my
pogo would arrive today, but postman has already come. :/
ascii_field: shinohai: of the
pogo as it comes from the vendor ?
shinohai: Is there a history of the
pogo somewhere?
ascii_field: a
pogo, as i envision it, has much in common with a comm satellite
decimation: perhaps the
pogo should come with a sunlight detector
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> point of
pogo is to allow well-meaning but illiterate or even stupid people to run therealbitcoin. << no. well meaning stupid is the LAST thing we want. i'd rather import us academia.
mircea_popescu: and the followin line does not follow. some intelligent people are poor, or more to wit : some poor people are (allegedly) intelligent. i doub this is true. but if it were,
pogo is their way out.
decimation: this doesn't solve the "
pogo clock is shit" problem
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> so much as opening
pogo and touching inside multiplies the cost of the operation. << and yet mircea_popescu had this done
decimation:
pogo can keep time by comparing its clock to the block discovery interval, averaging over a long period
shinohai: I have a stator build working, just waiting on my
pogo to get here first. Using the 0.5.3 RELEASE on my shell
ascii_field: danielpbarron: if you missed the thread - it was about how we have no clock on
pogo danielpbarron: on the topic of time and the
pogo, I should point out that I recently had to update the time on my blue
pogo (the one i'm using as a web server / irc client) because it had drifted from the real time by as much as a quarter hour in the few months it had been running continuously
ascii_field: ^ adding the missing rtc crystal & power source to 'dockstart', machine using same chipset as
pogo mod6: <+ascii_field> mod6: anything that requires the operator to even know that routers exist is inapplicable for
pogo << yeah was reading what you guys were saying. basically why I didn't bring it up. too hard for mom & pop.
ascii_field: mod6: anything that requires the operator to even know that routers exist is inapplicable for
pogo mircea_popescu: jurov i mean,
pogo asks for ntp time, malicious server sayus "ask a.b.c.d"
pogo asks.
jurov: you mean ,
pogo issues ntp requests, get million packets within seconds?
jurov: i did not mean for
pogo to promiscuously accept or even emit ntp packets!
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 15:10:23; jurov: if they're going to ddos known
pogo addresses then this has no solution
ascii_field: but yes, if using block timestamps, pogos can only be mislead, cannot mislead others (unless some fool were to mine via 'getwork'-ing a
pogo!)
jurov: i propose to wire electrodes up on the
pogo chassis and synchronize time using chosen woman's periods
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it is inapplicable for
pogo decimation:
pogo can record times he observes new blocks since boot
decimation: hitler cannot change the clock on the
pogo mircea_popescu: ok, how about this alternative : put a special time server on the
pogo itself, have the
pogo sync its time from the list of approved upstream sources.
jurov: also there is my doubt of finding 5000 or how many ppl that won't mind
pogo trampling upon their connection and likely inviting attacks
ascii_field: (anything requiring the
pogo keeper to have hands and brain is not a solution)
jurov:
pogo will eventually reorganize, and reset the time back to where the for started
ascii_field: so now miners get to move
pogo clocks around collectively.
mircea_popescu: to answer your q : hitler's block is rejected on the basis that it's too far off from the last block
pogo accepted.
mircea_popescu: so,
pogo has on disk last block 5, bvlock timestamp 1000
jurov: because you mined block 5, with a bad time, someone else mines 6 << and it will get dropped because
pogo considers delta from 5 invalid
mircea_popescu: suppose it's not empty. so,
pogo thinks time = last block on disk
ascii_field: let's suppose a powered-up
pogo sets clock using first block it sees
mircea_popescu: because you mined block 5, with a bad time, someone else mines 6 with a right time,
pogo is now on block 6.
mircea_popescu: this is a horribru example. so, miner has 10% of the hash, 10% of the bnlocks are badly timed. what of it,
pogo resets on the remainder.
ascii_field: where
pogo fleet is now own parallel universe
danielpbarron: isn't there supposed to be a way to send commands to the
pogo? otherwise how is it useful to me as a "full node" if I can't query it for blocks/transactions and relay new ones I have created for it?
ascii_field: congrats, now
pogo behaves like the clock on my stove
mircea_popescu: so, when you start the
pogo, you provide it with the human touch, divine spark, politica time.
thestringpuller: jurov: if i had a
pogo i would connect it to the neighbors unsecured wifi XD
jurov: heh. if you had a
pogo, you'd just yank it from power
jurov: and where are these mythincal civilian nonresidential lines
pogo is supposed to be on?
jurov: if they're going to ddos known
pogo addresses then this has no solution
☟︎ decimation: I agree but the enemy would have to know that this is a
pogo vs. other bitcoin node
decimation: then the
pogo can average the timestamps relative to its own samples of block times
decimation: over time, a chain is built which contains timestamps and relative timestamps from the
pogo