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mircea_popescu: speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779624 : $ cat trilema.txt | grep -c '"HEAD ' > 5936. this is about 9 hours' worth of log. turns out mp-wp uses head to make sure pictures uploaded correctly ; turns out a lot of economical browsers use head on pics on a page prior to loading them, to check if they already have them in the cache. ☝︎

ben_vulpes: totally not a relabeled IE ☟︎

mod6: oh sure. if you're not used to that type of elevation, can take a lot out of you indeed.

mircea_popescu: apparently they also have a jewelry shop right in the museum. and a simulated mine. it was the next item on the list, but there's only so much you can cram into four days of fucking & drinking.

mod6: oh, a whole one for just that huh. kinda neat.

deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/bogota-a-mixed-bag/ << Trilema - Bogota, a mixed bag

lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-03#1780773 << ftr this is how I'm currently designing "!Qarchive-bulk-download" to work. Bot will check with deedbot for a key registered, then verify good wot standing in my L1. No allcomers allowed! ☝︎

BingoBoingo: In other Pais Pobre: "The idea that makes tPanel unique compared to other web hosting control panels is that the software does not require any root/shell access to function. Instead, it’s more of a manager for people who have ambitions to start a web host on their shared web hosting plan." - http://www.gnutoolbox.com/tpanel/

ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-03#1780744 << "Mr. Pierce walked around the tree and said prayers for Puertopia, holding a rusted wrench he had picked up in the territory. He kissed an old man's feet. He blessed a crystal in the water, as they all watched. He played the Chaplin speech to everyone and to the tree, Mr. Nygard said." ☝︎

asciilifeform: info pg mentions a Erik Enge and a Brian Mastenbrook

phf: i think mp had a conversation with someone from #lisp, and someone was responding as if in authority, but you never know

a111: Logged on 2018-02-03 04:52 ben_vulpes: guy delivering servers today wanted to know what i was doing with em; "well let's see, install some software and then rack 'em in a datacenter, what else does one do with servers?" "no but like are you mining bro?" "haha funny. don't you have something for me to sign?"

a111: Logged on 2018-02-03 01:48 mircea_popescu: but anyway -- you can even now make a server return ~infinite headers if you wish.

ben_vulpes: guy delivering servers today wanted to know what i was doing with em; "well let's see, install some software and then rack 'em in a datacenter, what else does one do with servers?" "no but like are you mining bro?" "haha funny. don't you have something for me to sign?" ☟︎

doppler: is that just a matter of a regex needing updated?

mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the day's log page is fulla non-linking links as a result of http being the discussion

trinque afk for a bit

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 18:02 BingoBoingo: I will have to dig that up, but it is not trivial and requires having a foreign corporation in the loop somewhere. Perhaps someone with a corp that is offshore to Uruguay can inquire? Depends on the revenue reported and a whole bunch of other miscellanea.

mircea_popescu: you'll also probably have trouble without a connection: close signal, and so on.

mircea_popescu: ://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ as a complement to 302 response also quite useful.

a111: Logged on 2018-02-03 00:22 mircea_popescu: "find a thing such as x" vs "follow steps x give whatever comes out"

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 17:27 phf: content-type is a meaningless header, since that's up to client to decide anyway (and it's frequently misconfigured), all the other headers are straight up metadata fluff.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779676 << this is not so. looking through trilema's : X-Pingback: http://trilema.com/xmlrpc.php is essential for the whole pingback functionality, which i deem a prime class. off top of head cache-control is probably also useful, as it tells the client the very useful bit of whether server deems resopurce is type 1 or type 2 in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-03#1780528 sense ; Location: http ☝︎☝︎

trinque: I can go query what tables have a column of particular type

mircea_popescu: but anyway -- you can even now make a server return ~infinite headers if you wish. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: this is a major flaw of the "design" such as it is, that yes you're asking for potentially infinite metadata.

mircea_popescu: the reason i linked the two items was, that you had a paradoxical result evaluating logical implication of negated absence in there ; and a paradoxical result evaluating predicated nothingness, here. seem to me intuitively they're related to some sort of 0-difficulty you have.

trinque: same thing's going to happen in a thread on HTTP

mircea_popescu: "don't have a head, use get size 0"

mircea_popescu: basically whole thing was "Don't implement a special show table status, use the underlying select item from schema directly"

mircea_popescu: and this show table status is a proxy for select autoincrtement from inf schema

mircea_popescu: isn't this "tell me about this table for a total of 0 rows" ?

mircea_popescu: but i can get, eg, a table's current index position

trinque: I can select from a table that is the table of columns, for example

trinque: sql would be a system where I'd consider the metadata properly designed, in that there isn't a difference in the way it's represented, or retrieved

mircea_popescu: trinque i meant strictly from a logical perspective.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779643 << trivial to check, issue a head, see if "accept-ranges" is in there. if not -- no support ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 17:02 trinque: my statement was that yes ^ and also for the logs "you wouldn't design something where $giveMeNoneOfIt implicitly means a metadata fetch"

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779620 << is this a rehash of >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 ?! ☝︎☝︎

asciilifeform: right, though it would win from a staticized url

mircea_popescu: we still need js as much as last time this was discussed, a week ago

mircea_popescu: quite opposite of sense ; and a much more important ablation target than forgotten/disused http words.

mircea_popescu: if my loading of a web page dies 10kb in, i want that 10kb to have contained the article, not some "template" fugly.

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:56 phf: that's fair, you could do GET with a range of 0 bytes at 0 offset

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779605 << there is a good argument in favour of overloading meaning into verbs rather than inventing new verbs. an implementation of head as "get with 0 bytes accepted" is actually an improvement over current. ☝︎

asciilifeform: there is not a magical pill against deletion

mircea_popescu: "immutable" still enforced by server only. tomorrow i can decide to make a whole diff tree and gl to you.

asciilifeform: not long ago i loaded a 'torrent' that was first put up ~7yrs ago. because somebody still mirrored.

a111: Logged on 2016-06-28 03:58 mircea_popescu: trinque tbh, i think wikis are a (braindamaged, dysfunctional, uncomprehending) response to the html-is-broken / transclusion issue discussed yest and etc.

mircea_popescu: no longer a hodge-podge of "plugins" and "themes" haphazard and therefore entirely flat conceoptually.

mircea_popescu: now, this ad hoc hack could have been a proper alt-leaf thing

asciilifeform: i can give 1 ready example of a plainly palpable win, even for blogs:

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: edges into a 'causes and purposes' discussion, dunnit. even if trilema doesn't possibly use any such thing, conceivably it is still the Right Thing

mircea_popescu: and it's a wonder if it'd be actually worth it. consider -- what alternative wp-mps would i maintain on trilema ?

asciilifeform: this is why asciilifeform even gave a damn to begin with , re 'sane http'

mircea_popescu: yes but this is a much more integrated v-http server than previously even hinted at.

mircea_popescu: seems to me it's a thing unto itself.

mircea_popescu: "find a thing such as x" vs "follow steps x give whatever comes out" ☟︎

asciilifeform: this goes back to the trinque thread, where he (correctly) observed that 'gimme resource R, find it using hash H' is a separate, conceptually, entity from 'perform command C and return result R'

asciilifeform: imho dynamics oughta have a marked-as-separate form of addressing. e.g. dyn:// .

asciilifeform: the current hack around this is the archiver. but it is a hack.

mircea_popescu: phf he was headed straight into "no such thing as static content, you can discover this whenever you re-read the same words in a trilema article", but he sidestepped.

asciilifeform: phf: it is also a v-ism, that's the thing

phf: the notion of "static content" is a c-machine-ism

mircea_popescu: i dun see it in a design perspective ; heck, i actually doin't even see the problem with php. (by the time you're protesting a text preprocessor being used as a systems language your problem is not properly speaking with the tool).

asciilifeform: the whole 'dynamic pages' thing is a terrifying hack on classical http ☟︎

mircea_popescu: but consider if you will the problem of dynamic content. every one (of what, 10k ?) pages on trilema changes at least once a day (header), and so on. what now ?

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:49 asciilifeform: phf: imho 'what, if anything changed' is a q that oughta be answered by a mechanism that can do it, when (as often is) wanted for the ~entire site~ compactly

mircea_popescu: ok, you have 3 a records now, empty to that and a ns1 ns2 as quoted.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo hang on a sec.

BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779773 << 161.0.121.253 have a ns1.qntra.net set up there and a ns2.qntra.net at 161.0.121.252 ☝︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i already found that i had a 1U intel 'xeon' box, also usable , from years ago...

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'ma uncrate things, take pics, expect a roundup sunday night. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah. let's make a list this weekend so we can action monday.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform certainly. kinda why i want this as a collective effort.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779554 << understand the good part here : AFTER we're done building up the racks, we can prolly also sell them. certainly we own a valuable3 item by comparison to the orcs. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: But $495 for a $300 in the US ubiquity Edgerouter Pro isn't too bad <<< i.... beg your pardon ?!

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:25 trinque tries to remember if chunked transfer encoding is both ways with http, or only a response thing

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779533 << iirc after a decade trying to fix it it's almost both ways by now ☝︎

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: demise of unix os is a thing to rattle swords pon bucklers 'bout

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was re one of BingoBoingo's catalogues, it literally had a gadget i had on my desk , once obtained for 20bux, listed for 170

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:16 asciilifeform: 170 usd for a 20usd label printer, notbad

mircea_popescu: a does it ?

mircea_popescu: basically, people had a scheme, then started stuffing data in it (get was born) then stuffed so much discovered it really should go INSIDE the envelope not on it, so post was born

asciilifeform: why exactly is the 'get with the params in a different encoding' needed tho

mircea_popescu: put uploads a file, post makes a get with the params in a different encoding

mircea_popescu: and the rurals really dun give a shit some dumb broad hoping to study criminology in maryland thinks

asciilifeform took a few sec to recall that this was about the bird

mod6: Sorry, got pulled off for a momemnt, just reading this thing. I dunno if they need laws for that kinda thing, just kinda not what is supposed to happen though.

mod6: They shot the thing with a fuckin bb gun, and it died extra slow. That kinda pisses me off.

asciilifeform: but really there's no reason why a server needs unixclone os etc. build small bin with gnat, that knows how to run the nic, has basic ip stack.

mircea_popescu: disk keeps a journaling and server keeps a manifesting ? gimme a break.

mircea_popescu: and it is a fact that a server's needs towards the disk are specific, specifiable, and very visibly different from "general purpose"

mircea_popescu: the other perhaps important point is that extant http servers have a very loose and distant relation to fs.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779491 << moreover, a hash rather than a date would be the correct response here. ☝︎

asciilifeform: if i want to know which of 10,000,000 files on a remote site changed, there is no fucking reason why i should have to download a list of 10,000,000 hashes, rather than binarysearch.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779483 << this is a crappy idea. ☝︎

asciilifeform: does the paper have a column for 'this year, eaten by jaguar'

mircea_popescu: anyway, shooting a toucan / cougar / etc seems pretty retarded. and nfi why you'd come all the way over here for fawn when you can just go to midwest like sane people.

asciilifeform: 'Costa Rica’s existing Wildlife Law already prohibits hunting in Costa Rica, and sets fines of up to ₡1.5 million (some $2,600) for those responsible for killing a wild animal.'