tmsr - Search: " T"

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a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:00 phf: mp_en_viaje: it's the shitsoup ecosystem, there's a handful of packages smartly written, like hunchentoot or cl-http, and then there's new wave of cffi-everything approaches, that stand tall and pretend to be people

a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 19:09 asciilifeform: extra upstack lulz, re 'cultural layer' : google helpfully informs that it has thickened !

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911470 , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911582 <-- lulz, went in that area but didn't notice the place. found other "cultural layers" tho, with e.g. vomit on top of old clothes on top of bottles on top of ... will post some soon. ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:06 mp_en_viaje: if lisp-o-tron spits out html files and apache delivers them, this will be web-fast

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911451 <-- ftr, this is sorta how thetarpit currently works, tho the "spit out html" step in this loop is (for now) human-operated ☝︎

BingoBoingo: Will pick up in the morning

BingoBoingo: PeterL: ty

lobbesbot: PeterL: Sent 2 hours ago: <BingoBoingo> Settle tomorrow morning like last time?

PeterL: bingoboingo: actually, I was able to get into WU just before cloing time

mp_en_viaje: between incel & excel, there's ourdemocracy nudly whole.

BingoBoingo: From the computers are better than file: http://archive.is/isTJS

mp_en_viaje: and yes, this literally means there'll be computers smarter than MOST people. heck, extant computers already are smarter than most people, hence http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/

mp_en_viaje: the question of "can computers think" becomes "how far can this actually go", just how useful a computer can there be built. ☟︎

mp_en_viaje: the question is neither whether computers can think in the sense of finding some place in there -- eminently already have.

mp_en_viaje: now, the question isn't whether computers can think in the sense of, stand in for mp.

mp_en_viaje: three or four such ladders permit me to intellectually support VERY far reaching organisms, made of "thinking" people. the hard sense of think is this -- will dispose of ~any~ problem. yet the practical sense of think is, "useful as working piece in such organism".

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the problem here is this : i have various constructions in the real world, built out of people, who indeed think. their thinking covers 99% or so of the cases they encounter ; when a 1% strikes, they kick it up the ladder.

lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.

BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell PeterL Settle tomorrow morning like last time?

asciilifeform: observe that it was not asciilifeform who devised e.g. ada. it came from the (nao mostly dead) world where this kinda thing was understood .

asciilifeform once actually said, to understudy, long ago : 'picture if when you overrun a buffer, you were to lose half yer face'

a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'

asciilifeform even suspects that this magic moment is a necessary ingredient in apprentice's learning not to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379603 ☝︎

asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu , just as asciilifeform , knows what it is to have robot arm go through plate glass and stop inch short of face. in such case the equivalence becomes very obvious.

asciilifeform: erry power tool is 'elaborate skull crusher', some merely moar obviously than others.

asciilifeform: when operator begins to expect tool to 'think', he has taken 1st step to becoming toothpaste.

asciilifeform: imho 'think' is very narrow term, and oughta refer to what the operator is expected to be doing, and not the comp, lathe, saw.

asciilifeform: ( fella put hand on working lathe, wrapped like cord on the bobbin, meat squeezed like toothpaste from skin )

asciilifeform: grr i was gonna add that famous lathe meat-wind pic to this thread, but cannot nao find. ☟︎

mp_en_viaje: in that their actual utility is open ended, THEREFORE the "can they think" line of inquiry is valid.

mp_en_viaje: the argument was that it seems so far that the "can computers think" question is not misplaced. in fact, even the question "are computers anything besides elaborate skull crushers" is not misplaced.

mp_en_viaje: that wasnt the argument.

a111: Logged on 2015-04-26 03:21 asciilifeform: 'certain languages support serious programmers, and others don't. e.g., I don't think it is at all possible to become a serious programmer using Visual Basic or Perl. if you think hard about what Perl code will do on the borders of the known input space, your head will explode. if you write Perl code to handle input problems gracefully, your programs will become gargantuan: the normal failure mode is to terminate with no id

asciilifeform: which i suppose is improvement on manually colouring the input with pencil, but grr.

asciilifeform: i.e. still stuck manually walking over the output errytime

asciilifeform: while we're on the 'best comp is the 1 that takes off yer head to shorten the misery' thread : asciilifeform did in fact get sumthing like a working highlighting from yesterday's crock of shit . but still can't trust it to actually not fuck the job , demonstrating mp_en_viaje's point ☝︎

asciilifeform had old piece on roughly this subj but not quite as effective.

asciilifeform: 'national razor' also best, from this pov, razor.

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, point is, that the helmputter seems a much better design ~towards the same goals~ as these computer things.

asciilifeform: https://archive.is/k5LJR << what appears to be orig src. spicy detail, 'He knew something about the skull: thicker and stronger at the front where he placed three shells. it would have made more sense – for maximum kill power – to put the shells at his temples, but it seems like he may have been trying to tic boxes for both homogenous skull obliteration and maximum death'

mp_en_viaje: (but the "gotta take off hat" was pretty lulzy i must admit)

mp_en_viaje: which is why i chose this illustration. apparently helmputer can exist.

asciilifeform: fg nervously smokes in the corner.

asciilifeform: srsly, i gotta take off hat, how often can you say 'engineered, built, did EXACTLY what was supposed to, with 8x margin'

mp_en_viaje: afaik was teen

asciilifeform wonders if d00d took care to length-match the wires

asciilifeform pictures the lucky fella in the evidence locker who was given that thing to wash

asciilifeform: pretty great tho. engineers on their way out have been building finely crafted autoguillotines for 200y nao , it was high time someone took it to 'next level'

mp_en_viaje: as you say, "so owner dun have to press button as often"

asciilifeform: who was this hero

mp_en_viaje: took the 24v already

asciilifeform: are those graphite rods in the spikes ? do they take 220v ?

mp_en_viaje: like a helmet, except it doesn't protect the skull.

mp_en_viaje: yes, expected. but that expectation's not right. why https://media0dk-a.akamaihd.net/20/96/fe91e3fba3f74c392717b5e132544a3e.jpg is not helmet.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: yes, actually. in ameri-school, can see not only this.

asciilifeform: i expected to hear sumthingmoar like 'why machinegun is not rifle'

mp_en_viaje: you're not telling the whole truth here, seeing how even peh ended up with a stack. i know when i'm being led on, the computer's clearly not a calculator.

asciilifeform: so owner dun have to press button as often, lol

mp_en_viaje: "well mp... it can do metaexpansion" "really ?!" "nope. but at least you get to debug it." "really ?!" "just kidding" ☝︎

mp_en_viaje: i know what those are already.

asciilifeform: shitting out log table for her majesty's navy with slightly fewer eggogs!111

mp_en_viaje: what is the computer a tool for ?

mp_en_viaje: "hammer drives nails" "so if i ever need a nail driven i can use it ?" "definitely" "what's a computer do" "it kompyoots" "what's that ?" "umm..." "so what class of problem can it solve for me ?" "well, if you're one day bored..." "this never happens" "how about if you feel like helping many people you've never met ?" "..."

asciilifeform: (luckily for operator) it doesn't, lol . just like luckily for pilot, boeing doesn't have to be coaxed to depart from shitting on statue in park and fly in straight line

mp_en_viaje: yes, but can it think ?

asciilifeform: i confess i dun see where is the problem. airplane flies, tho quite unlike sparrow, comp kompyoots, etc

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, it;s offensively fucking stupid, why i even mention it. nfi how otherwise bright minds end up with this sorta shit between the ears.

mp_en_viaje: it's god damned fucking relevant, whether machines can think, specificaly because thinking's an open ended process. movement is not fucking open ended, which is why it admits exterior criteria in the first place,

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: funnily enuff, 'whether submarines swim' dunwork in ru ( where both boat and man 'swim' ) , similarly to how in eng both airplane and bird 'fly'

a111: Logged on 2018-07-29 16:27 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-29#1838170 << argentines are literally and without exageration a bunch of soy farmers who pretend FOR NO REASON conceivable, a circumstance of which they are aware AND PRETEND IT DOES NOT MATTER! AT ALL!, pretend they say they're something in the vein of "third power in europe". and that they might have such things as submarines, and so on. it's literally pig going through girls' charm cabinet a

mp_en_viaje: i'm still not fucking agreeing with djikstra's hipsterism. "submarines can swim" from point a to point b. argentine submarines evidently can't fucking swim ; and djikstra's a fucking retard for imagining "moving through water" is a good model for "thinking". ☝︎

mp_en_viaje: meanwhile by reading through old tomes, „ Alan M. Turing thought about criteria to settle the question of whether Machines Can Think, a question of which we now know that it is about as relevant as the question of whether Submarines Can Swim”

asciilifeform: when asciilifeform was 'fresh off the boat' in '92, filament lamp was good for 2-3y.

asciilifeform: by 'edison' i meant specifically the classic filament one aha

mp_en_viaje: left me with large supply of spares, as i bought 3x the installed inventory, had not yet opportunity to change any.

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i bought the "edison lamps", but the filament rather than the fake diode ones, fully expecting they'll go out in a month. they're still lighting cr fortress, easily 2, maybe even 3k hours later.

BingoBoingo: Not all visibility is a color thing. It's a high contrast effect. Take away their color and the old hags are all fault.

mp_en_viaje: case of "either be THIS rosy on the cheek or else look gray"

mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, nah, it's very close to the zone where humans don't perceive color at all.

BingoBoingo: And unflattering for the right reason. Great visibility!

asciilifeform: aand as such stories often end : coupla yrs later, tried to buy a 2nd, only to find that orig maker has vanished.

asciilifeform: after yrs of spitting, found item , and even verified w/ oscilloscope that it dun flicker . ( why tried at all ? ceiling fixture, bitch to change lamps in )

asciilifeform: incidentally, it is in fact possible to buy diode lamp that ain't a piece of shit. but strictly from chinese, and it costs actual dough, and physically large (flat heat sink, ~removable~ rectifier)

a111: Logged on 2014-02-16 22:04 asciilifeform: they pass an old man who says, 'don't drown this fellow. i'll feed him dumplings, he won't have to do any work but to dip them'

asciilifeform: sodium a+++ lamp, where in edisonic lamp filament sublimates and sputters onto the glass, in sodium lamp the sublimated tungsten ends up going ~right back~ onto filament ( if somehow could be made to go back to exactly same place as came from -- lamp would be in fact eternal. as it is, 10y or so )

mp_en_viaje: the switch from most efficient engineeringly best city lights (they're even good for light pollution, least light polluting public source, specifically for the same reason) towards expensive, toxic, ineffective, harmful an' generally bullshit "alternatives" just because sodium spectral emission's unflattering to old bags gotta be the cleanest example of why generalized peripueral fever's much preferable to merkelism.

mp_en_viaje: "oh but mp, it makes older women look unattractive". who the fuck are you putting street lamps in for, hillary clinton an' her merry band of disavowed streetwalkers ?

mp_en_viaje: none of that "high pressure" mercury alloy bs, either.

mp_en_viaje: sodium lamps are some of the highest efficiency, most voltage-variation tolerant light sources known. and by "some of" i mean the.

BingoBoingo: I doubt Detroit's electricity is clean enough to support diodes

mp_en_viaje: right, cuz the good-for-century sodium lamps were no good.

feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/dying-of-the-light-in-detroit-new-led-streetlights-approaching-systemic-failure/ << Qntra -- Dying Of The Light In Detroit: New LED Streetlights Approaching Systemic Failure

asciilifeform: ( tried deutsch also but he said nein )

asciilifeform: i did tell him, in (what i thought was passable) ro, then eng, we tried ru also, lol

mp_en_viaje: nfi what his issue is either, i left him a laptop for the express purpose, free of charge, all set up.

mp_en_viaje: i have no idea! conceivably tell him, "dood looky, this is entirely dependent on pgp". not get item you're not satisfied with, i dunno. complain at some point somewhere, so i don't find myself in this weird position where i'm asked about things i dunno about and dunno what to say ?

asciilifeform: fella won't pgp! what, i'm to buy plane ticket erry time ?

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if you think s.nsa can get some mileage out of the item, let's keep it, otherwise plox to dispose, i cannot in good conscience try an' power it with own steam , gotta save the coinz for piz work

mp_en_viaje: think for a moment what chaos'd ensue if that were how it worked.

mp_en_viaje: well yeah, it's like domain names say, or hosting or any other such thing. can't just discontinue it, nobody knows what priceless jewelry dood has in there.