log☇︎
273000+ entries in 0.164s
mircea_popescu: the "standard tank shell" is not "the standard shell" for this exact reason.
asciilifeform: well, if you actually were to read the ada standard, it has a massive annex specifying ~optional~ components.
mircea_popescu: mno. EITHER "the standard library" is not the standard library ; or ELSE your mips is a chunk of charcoal and you've got down syndrome to be trying to program on it.
asciilifeform: and standard tank shell dun fit in the luger.
asciilifeform: elaborate re where one finds 'here's the standard - it doesn't work for yout item' ??
mircea_popescu: that phrase should immediately reduce to "your item is stupid and you're dumb for working on it"
mircea_popescu: in any fucking case, "here's the standard - it doesn't work for yout item" is rank nonsense, and the paragon of anti-utility.
asciilifeform: 'standard', in industrial world, has a meaning. it is a document which at least ~attempts~ an exhaustive description of an object, with an aim to enabling reader to re-create it.
mircea_popescu: utility is not so clearly married to this alfie.
asciilifeform: and alphabet of, e.g., english, is 'standard' for english in the exact 100% useless sense that mendeleev table is 'standard for mcburger'.
mircea_popescu: perhaps forcing the point, as these are both industrial processes. anyway.
mircea_popescu: the latter makes some specific comments as to some points of interest - "the meat should be between some sort of bread". the former specifies every single aspect of the item, including a complete chemical composition etc.
asciilifeform: asking to standardize a living humanlang in the nut-and-bolt sense is rather like asking for a standard liver, leg, or cock.
PeterL: what I mean is the french have the academy trying to specify their language
mircea_popescu: they tried for three centuries, gave up.
mircea_popescu: does not. french is specifically the one culture language which does not have a normative, academy-produced dictionary.,
PeterL: French dictionary tries to be a standard
mircea_popescu: this difference is important, and apparently not much understood through normal schooling.
mircea_popescu: still. when we discuss language - the alphabet is the only standard. the dictionary is not a standard ; nor aspires to be a standard.
asciilifeform: because it is difficult to measure, much less reshape, physical object without using another such
asciilifeform: attempts to WHOLLY detach a standard from particular artifacts - e.g., si def of the metre in terms of cesium atom cross-sections - have not gone far.
mircea_popescu: a standard for 1 inch nut does not a) specify material b) enter into considerations of what levers to push on what type of cnc mill
asciilifeform: despite that the modern round were made by folks who were born after everyone involved in making the pistol were long dead.
asciilifeform: it is what a standard is in the land of nuts and bolts, likewise.
asciilifeform: it is what a standard is in compiler-land. i.e., i can, using only the standard, re-create the compiler.
mircea_popescu: this is besides the point.
asciilifeform: hence why i said 'closest thing'
mircea_popescu: thinking the dictionary "a standard" is exactly the level of ignorance one displays thinking "the blue earth internet icon"
mircea_popescu: not so. the fucking alphabet is the only human lang standard.
mircea_popescu: "this text is non-compliant, dictionary translation makes no sense" - wrong
mircea_popescu: "this text is non-compliant, replace letter ? with a proper letter and resubmit" - right
asciilifeform: it is the closest thing any humanlang has to a standard.
mircea_popescu: do tell, how are you richer than your father, and his father, when his reservoir was full and yours is empty ?
asciilifeform: alphabet is not the correct analogy, dictionary - is.
mircea_popescu: yet modern idiot fancies himself much more intelligent than anyone who ever lived ; and better informed, and "progressed".
mircea_popescu: somehow the small alphabet in which one can actually write - is.
asciilifeform: this unicorn, the SMALL language in which ONE CAN ACTUALLY PROGRAM, is not yet born.
asciilifeform: all known 'small' standards, e.g., ansi scheme, have resulted in ~99% of the extant code in the respective language using nonstandard libs.
asciilifeform: now on a micro, one needs VERY little of this, and folks traditionally trim the thing down to fit by sacrificing pieces
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ada has a titanic standard lib, this is not really escapable on a c machine if you want SAFE data structures, threads, etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the much worse point of this is - WHAT THE FUCK is a "standard lib" supposed to be thaT DOESN'T fit on microcontroller. what the fuck standard is this standard, utf-standard, the antistandard.
mircea_popescu: or for that matter, that old "fuck you and netbase" http://trilema.com/2014/ubuntu-is-a-worse-piece-of-shit-than-ms-dos-ever-was/#selection-145.0-145.98
asciilifeform: and the recipe whereby you substitute a dummy -- dun work.
asciilifeform: which of course barfed, because it is unable to find the motherfucking std lib that supposedly 'is optional'
asciilifeform: sooooooo then i put on gas mask, and vivisected the makefiles until FORCED bloody thing to build gnattools
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 04:53 trinque: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=20015 << if the world ever rights "helpful" is going to be a euphemism for "tries to slip dick in when you turn your back"
asciilifeform: and they barf in non-debuggable ways because gnumake was written by chimps, and 'ERROR 2' !!!11
asciilifeform: on top of this, all but two of the gnat ver / gcc ver building it combos i've tried, barf.
asciilifeform: because ALL version of gcc i've been able to get a hold of, which are able to build a version of gnat i've been able to get a hold of, refuse to build gnattools (the linker) when standard lib (which dun belong on a microcontroller) is disabled.
ben_vulpes: thanks phf, i used shinohai's dump as i didn't realize that your tgz contained wordpress as well as wp-content
asciilifeform: so, for instance, i have, theoretically, a gnat that builds for mips, but in actuality it dun work.
asciilifeform: it isn't even that we are operating on an animal that is squirming on the table, but that it is not an animal at all, but a bag of maggots and weevils
asciilifeform: evolved, l0l, from ken thompson.
mircea_popescu: it evolved. from frogs. how was the first human built!
asciilifeform: how the FIRST gnat was built, NO ONE KNOWS today.
asciilifeform: at least it is theoretically possible to build gcc on another compiler (i personally have not attempted this, and the last confirmed report i know of is some years ago, however)
asciilifeform: in fact, it is ~impossible to build it on 2 boxes, supposing that they are not mirror images of one another's disks, and end up with same gcc.
asciilifeform: nor is the thing in any sense approaching readable
asciilifeform: and likewise everything which stands, supposedly stably, on top of it.
asciilifeform: the thing is rotten to the core
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the open sores thing is a clusterfuck of a depth that i cannot even convey in words. e.g., in the past few days i have uncovered catastrophic bugs in gcc, which NO ONE will ever fix, or likely even replicate, because they ONLY show up when you try to build version X with version Y, for particular pairings of X,Y, and similar
mircea_popescu: points a through i === foss.
mircea_popescu: answer h) yet there's a new team maintaining the item i) except it's unclear exactly who exactly how and to what exact purpose or standard"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform point being : "a) here is a package of open source software that b) worked great c) for a lengthy, unclear and unverifyable past interval d) maintained by an intelligent but dour and otherwise busy party that e) is well respected but no longer much involved f) yet you could ask q of them if only you could find out how to ask an intelligent one g) which is pointless anyway because you can't make much sense of the
asciilifeform: or a gnat that builds without gnat (which has been annoying asciilifeform greatly in recent times)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eh we dun even have a gnudiff that build without gnudiff.
mircea_popescu: check it out, we managed to replicate in vitro ALL OF FOSS
phf: ben_vulpes: i have a patchset, that takes wp from stock 2.7 to mircea_popescu's version, and then adds a few cleanups that i did. once i get through all the other shit i'm working on, i'll release it. the stock->mp patch is useful if you want to do further work on the codebase and have some idea where mp's custom patches begin and end
mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone recall diablo 1 multiplayer mode ? which nobody ever played, because you could edit your client to send to the other "your player was hit by 1`000`000 dmg" and the idiot'd take it at face value and kill the other person ?
phf: ben_vulpes: i think everything's here http://107.170.141.103/2016/wp-content-for-a/
a111: Logged on 2016-08-09 07:41 trinque: you could just shit messages as you like from phuctor and not have to worry about RSS.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-06 01:31 asciilifeform: phf apparently knows enough to replicate working setup without the missing pieces and without using the pig-ugly default theme.
ben_vulpes: on the topic of pointing and laughing, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-06#1497751 << phf would you be so kind as to share what you did to your wp-content/themes/comments.php to get past the "stale comments" thinger? ☝︎
ben_vulpes: it is a very tidy sourceball, trinque.
trinque: anyone else wants to play with a lispybot / offer critique / point and laugh, feel free
trinque: you could just shit messages as you like from phuctor and not have to worry about RSS. ☟︎
trinque: I'm gonna test this guy more tomorrow and add message splitting to the first one, then probably sign.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 19:02 asciilifeform: ;;later tell trinque any idea why deedbot sometimes spits out a phuctoring twice ?
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-06#1516222 << not sure. I'm thinking maybe we stop fighting cruft and fire you up one of these: http://deedbot.org/v/ircbot-genesis.vpatch http://deedbot.org/v/logbot-genesis.vpatch ☝︎
BingoBoingo: Not like it gets up and walks away with the seekrits
BingoBoingo: Listen to your elders https://archive.is/vsG03
BingoBoingo: Yeah, eve's downfall was transitioning from spreadsheets in space to MS Excel specifically in space
mircea_popescu: "The search for the reason behind the declining PCU in EVE Online continues." << how about "the game fucking sucks".
mircea_popescu: yeah well. they were a major yahoo sorta thing, years ago. aol-owned outfit.
mircea_popescu: fewer sites today than in 1996, for sure.
mircea_popescu: "Today, on February 3rd, 2015, Massively.com ends." << the "internet" in the sense of "world wide web" contracts right on schedule.
mircea_popescu: da fuck is with these people.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/cum-sa-fii-peste-ghid-simplu-pe-inteles-si-exhaustiv << Cum sa fii peste - ghid simplu, pe inteles si exhaustiv on Trilema - A ... | http://trilema.com/cae-dorel << Cae Dorel ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: (.za blogger fella who got 'accidentally' beaten to death in police station one time)
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "Detroitiscrap.com finally shut down. - Niggermania.NET" << apparently there was a detroit lafond.
mod6: thanks for checking that out
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: liberation of the dogs ??
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 2 tests complete both passed
asciilifeform: https://www.bell-labs.com/claude-shannon << apparently a thing
asciilifeform: phun phakt: the uncensored, full-length version of shannon's otp paper was released only in 2013 !
asciilifeform: and then you go, again, to the bottle.
asciilifeform: cryptography is a 'meat market' where, after sobering up, one notices that 100% of the 'girls' are actually pigs.
asciilifeform: (we have support for ~weakness~ and this confuses people)
asciilifeform: afaik we do not have any theoretical support whatsoever for the strength of any known hash algo.
asciilifeform: (the depressing part is that the way it ~is~ established, is claude shannon's otp paper, and it happened exactly ONCE, afaik, to date.)