log☇︎
27600+ entries in 0.614s
asciilifeform: anyway it's entirely a timesaving measure, you entirely can load them from somebody else each time, the thing won't proceed unless the hashes match
mircea_popescu: this is not lazy, this is sane. not every slant of roof gets a tower, because things aren't all equal, and something must be the bottom.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: once you have the contents of 'deps' again, i recommend to back it up to another dir, and to burn a cd, those turds ain't ever changing -- there will only get ~fewer~ (when we ditch, e.g., bdb)
mircea_popescu: well, ima start over now. isn't that fucking wunderbar.
mircea_popescu: you nuked my bitcoin isntall didn't you.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: looks like this worked. confirmed that mod6's vtron doesn't check for file-exists, appends. (i won't even blame him, as such, this is the default idiot behaviour of gnudiff !)
asciilifeform: ( and where it won't erase unless the hash of the victim matches! )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in fact i can't actually patch it out as it won't match the correct file huh, it does line by line removal
asciilifeform: it can, but that doesn't fix whatever resulted in it being appended to itself during the press
trinque: only for curiousity's sake. it certainly isn't worth using over what's in the V tree.
trinque: I don't even remember what the shell script would've been. Probably some stab earlier at what became the makefiles
asciilifeform: if you haven't yet tried mod6's buildtron, run it per the recipe literally first, it will not rebuild the deps every time, is reasonably clever
mircea_popescu: but doesn't include the wires ?
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-13#1626306 << on top of that i brought it up with a whisperer, i got back "oh yeah, the loper os guy! i emailed him some time ago, but didn't get any response. he probably thought i'm some kind of tourist." ☝︎
Framedragger: doesn't work on lynx tho.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo o wow don't tell me the "bitcoin crashes because usg postures re its own paper bitcoin-ersatz" thing failed to last the week
BingoBoingo: Apparently though their fixation on Trump leads them to forget you can't spell Trump without MP
ben_vulpes: oh i thought the failure of the don't-call-it-an-etf ripped the buy side clean out of the market though
a111: Logged on 2017-03-11 01:41 phf: asciilifeform: i don't think that's a wasted effort. i got in touch with zeptobars people again, and my current best option (since they said shipping to russia is maddness) is to travel moscows sometime in summer and hand deliver the chip. assuming that i have one, but i take it you're no longer interested since "snap4 source"
mircea_popescu: not usually after throwing an immense hissy fit, of dubious footing, which wasn't all that well received by teh very people in question! and then http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625230 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: Framedragger yeah, thourogh, isn't he.
mircea_popescu: ugh. between the blog and the log he didn't find anything ?!
fake_space_whale: Is there an intro to trilema somewhere? I tried poking around the website and didn't find anything in my brief hunt.
mircea_popescu: it is a very false idea that what we say here "is in the open" and thereby "anyone could" etc. the prb devs can't, notwithstanding their own delusions of information and ability.
Framedragger: this would require a decently thought out testing framework (i don't mean shitty-web-framework, just, a systematized approach)
mircea_popescu: you won't see 239 cuz it timeouts at 240 lol. and if you wait enough might even see 278.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> signatures don't match, scripts are bad, inputs are bad, outputs are too long, on it goes << yeah, exactly. eventually coverage like this is a must. eventually.
asciilifeform: can i use 'i didn't imagine that's what you mean' in the phrase table, or has mircea_popescu trademarked !
mircea_popescu: yes, if you meant "maybe alf typos the code and doesn't notice" then yes, expect.
mircea_popescu: i didn't imagine that's what you mean.
mircea_popescu: but i wouldn't say "when i pull trigger i expect round to discharge". because i don't.
mircea_popescu: i expect girl to shave. ie, tomorrow. i don't expect anything out of the floor.
mircea_popescu: if it will or if it won't, either way.
mircea_popescu: there aren't two. this one.
mircea_popescu: there aren't any expectations.
mircea_popescu: signatures don't match, scripts are bad, inputs are bad, outputs are too long, on it goes
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes isn't all teh butthurt delicious though ? "we are very upset that apparently we don't matter ; also we won't mention mp's warning about all this because then it won't burn so much."
mod6: *to me doesn't mean
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> bashops uber alles << yeah, CI to mean doesn't mean "must use current devop-isms". we could build our own automated toolset. np.
asciilifeform: pruning ain't a thing
mircea_popescu: (which i didn't originally even think will get mined)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you haven't guessed, i have an incomplete one here (currently calling in my head 'nqb', 'not quite bitcoin') and was trying to adapt it to the very simple task of eating the existing blocks and parsing out the tx.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in theory they shouldn't be capped outside of the block size.
mircea_popescu: because block 500 with hash x can't be followed by block 501 with hash x equal to itself because that block 501 would be trying to spend outputs that are already spent.
mircea_popescu: i don't think at the time he did this he had a very clear idea of the mempool / blockchain tx disjunction.
phf: and finally grapher now properly shows broken vpatches (i.e. ones that don't have all of the antecedents), for example http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=experimental all polarbeard ones, and my phf-shiva-swank are broken
phf: (searching through a particular press doesn't work yet)
asciilifeform: seems like a shit idea tho. 'oops there isn't a trb running on dulap, because ooops i broke the build'
phf: that's another reason, why i don't for example, "hack my python with vim like a real hacker". give me the filthiest, most feature rich IDE, where i can just push spacebar to get half of my scaffolding, or whatever kids these days ☟︎
jurov: don't forget the part about proper management of secrets on the master and general resilience of master against attacks from clients/minions
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: 'tisn't as though hftbro is exhaustive banger-on of every dumb thing, just the ones he's faced with
trinque: the fuck I don't
Framedragger: (even hft guy doesn't have anything bad to say about ansible)
ben_vulpes: oh don't even get me started on the ways in which the laptops don't behave deterministically
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you don't have a mains failure alarm ?!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: dunno about you, i don't buy or keep around boxes that randomly lose bits.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: well computers don't work per sane definitions of working
ben_vulpes: hah oh you hadn't?
Framedragger: (turns out i *didn't* read that hft article (https://thehftguy.com/2016/11/01/docker-in-production-an-history-of-failure/) fuuuuck)
ben_vulpes: i don't see any disagreement here
trinque: really it's a reaction to poverty, "lala no I really can't hear my neighbor taking a shit"
mircea_popescu: until you have net interface that somehow (how the fuck ?!) doesn't get to read/write to memory, your isolation is soup served in a calender.
Framedragger: don't say i 'sulked' tho.
mircea_popescu: "can't say our democracy is a waste of everyone's time". ooops...
Framedragger: that said, docker's 'main aim' isn't even isolation for the sake of security, so my weak point is even weaker.
mircea_popescu: "i did not say this before any implementation failed though -- it was fine while it wasn't obviously failing"
mircea_popescu: trinque "socialism is not a bad concept just wasn't correctly implemented."
Framedragger: *sigh* i'll grant it that concepts are leaky and can't apply hammer to all problems etc etc; but you can't pretend that the core concept of isolation is not useful. just isolating fs, process, and network is already useful.
ben_vulpes: silicon-valley developer finger trap. can't go away soon enough.
ben_vulpes: "oh, no, why would you ever want to do that? aren't you a professional opsbro? with centralized logging? containers are ephemeral, you low-dough derp! they crash and go away!"
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625594 << docker containers are *supposed* to be ephemeral. 'volatile containers' in itself is not a worthless concept. don't take it as me advocating for them, just, ftr. ☝︎
Framedragger just had some cold borscht. << amazing and recommend for those who haven't tried
Framedragger: i have some good memories from using bsd jails some years ago. the core concept of isolation (fs, process, network, etc) is not bad. providing integrated interface not a bad thing, either. problem with docker is it doesn't do it in a consistent way, is too bloated, is ~proprietary +/-, and does the abstraction in a way that invites lazy people to be even more lazy and reckless.
asciilifeform: or hm, looks like they didn't
asciilifeform: don't wait for me ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: so "consumer fs is great if you don't use it". hey, check it out, exactly like the us army, or for that matter cia, apparently.
asciilifeform: and you don't need variably-sized turds, or deletion, or defrag
Framedragger: you're right, the growth *won't* be linear. but...
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: which means that i don't see how it could work even given mystery-amazing fs performance (...), *space-wise*.
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't surprise me if a corner case were discovered where THIS permits doublepsend
asciilifeform: it isn't clear why to preserve anything else, if this is amputated. it is the very example of 'grandfather's pistol' -- any mistake is a) not necessarily detectable with ANY kind of testing b) potential reactor melt
asciilifeform: notice, they aren't simply block indices. these'd be fixed length, and might even get reasonable performance in ye olde bdb;
asciilifeform: anyway i described an algo that wasn't retarded and doesn't pull in 10,000 lines of open sores ???. and it's as if this neverhappened, for some reason.
mircea_popescu: (and if the foregoing didn't happen where you went to school... you didn't.)
mircea_popescu: what i want to hear is, (preferably proof) as to why journaling filesystem can't store files in directories!
mircea_popescu: (pretending for a second the design is sane, which it isn't -- who the fuck counts by int a set of hashed items omfg)
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: so in your proposed-to-be-tested scheme, there are two separate eight-deep trees? may i ask, why do blocks need their own tree - after all, it's just an int. do you expect block number to overflow an unsigned 32 bit int? because you *really* don't need 8-deep structure for dispersing 2**32 nodes (again: http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/fsgraph1.png / http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/fsgraph2.png )
mircea_popescu: phf i don't follow. so what if they are ?
mircea_popescu: phf well he's considering what he's considering, seeing how he's doing the measuring. i was kinda biasing towards ext2 in the previous discussions (which i guess nobody reads or something ?) , but hey, can't impede man's independent manhood!
mircea_popescu: Framedragger in any case i don't expect to optimize BEFORE DESIGNING holy shit. talk about early optimizations. this is the measuring stage. you optimize nothing.
mircea_popescu: (and if this is untenable, THEN THE DESIGN GETS MODIFIED!!! no fucking "solutions" of shoving shit under carpet and letting mp discover it in 2017 whiole spending however many years eating food we didn't pay for and pretensions to "engineering" and "intellectual lifge" we don't deserve.)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the point is that we don't want to make any more provedly breaking systems.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-11 01:11 mircea_popescu: i can't bring myself to move my piss away from dks, or anyone in his generation's face.
mircea_popescu: yeah i don't have a problem with you. still monumentally pissed off.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for completeness, i should state that it may be "workable" (in the sense of slightly less horrible) to just keep a flat dir tree structure, one or two levels deep - if you don't ask fs to list files in dir and just want to access filenames you already know, it's ~okay-ish. but i think i agree that the whole fs idea needs to be dumped, in general
mircea_popescu: why phrase it as this rather than plainly "i will" ? to place disincentive on others doing it ? (hey, if i do it he won't) rather than incentive (he's doing it, let me do it too) ?
mircea_popescu: alternatively, they a) didn't know (either item) ; b) didn't care ; c) didn't know they don't know ; d) didn't care they don't know and so folllowing.
asciilifeform: my pessimistic reading of this picture is that all of the folx who a) knew b) knew that asciilifeform wanted to know c) didn't tell -- were playing some peculiar power game in their heads, re 'access to the treasure trove', and how mean ol' asciilifeform wants to take this magic access and make it worth 0 ...
mircea_popescu: holy shit, facebook does this doesn't it
mircea_popescu: even now, you understand this alfie, EVEN NOW there's girls spreading for random dorks somewhere notwithstanding you're looking for a girl just like them. and they won't as much as whatsapp a notification to you!