log☇︎
23000+ entries in 0.285s
mod6: but having it set up as i just did in the above paste is unpressable in current vtronics.
ben_vulpes: warning and stopping doesn't really help, as i see it.
mod6: but I think now that we have the outside makefiles integrated and working well, maybe we can prune out those dirs and create them as needed? certainly worth looking into. certainly would be nice to get rid of those things finally
mod6: long ago, we all talked about this. and perhaps it is time to prune these directories. but at the time, it was decided to leave them as-is
mircea_popescu: yah smooth as buttar.
mod6: <mircea_popescu> list of items for mod6's convenience : 1) nice job! 2) successive presses overfil .gitignore and possibly other files 3) deps directory should prolly be same level as patches and .seals<< sorry you encountered some issues on 2nd press. Thanks for your comments. Duly noted.
Framedragger: *of course*. i'm not completely certain that he meant the latter (i guess he did?) and if he did, whether what he described is actually the case ("actual social networks are used as source of info again!1" - maybe?)
Framedragger: markets and souks, there is a long term advantage to being dependable." << if he's saying what i think he's saying (social networks work again!1 people use them to understand things!1) then he's beyond naive, as the modern 'social network' is nothing like that of a bazaar. the former is ~basically facebook which on top of being...facebook, selectively filters and presents "your friends' stories"
Framedragger: hmm. "The period of time that corresponds to the reliance on one-sided accounts such as television and newspapers, which can be controlled by the mandarins, lasted from the middle of the twentieth century until the U.S. elections of 2016. In that sense, social networks, allowing a two-way flow of information, put back the mechanism of tidings in its natural format. As with participants in
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/03/ceo-marissa-mayer-out-at-yahoo-as-verizon-to-rebrand-the-thing-to-altaba/ << Qntra - CEO Marissa Mayer Out At Yahoo As Verizon To Rebrand The Thing To Altaba
mircea_popescu: it's about as financially productive as "make money online"
mircea_popescu: maybe that, but the secret of that is that you'd have to be a stupid as a 20yo "didn't like math" girl to imagine that is something to do.
mircea_popescu: "blocks" : 419374, btw, as predicted.
asciilifeform: because ssh is a product of 'satoshis', people who were dropped as children, and cannot be made to self-reignite.
mircea_popescu: !~later tell mod6 list of items for mod6's convenience : 1) nice job! 2) successive presses overfill .gitignore and possibly other files 3) deps directory should prolly be same level as patches and .seals
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: looks like this worked. confirmed that mod6's vtron doesn't check for file-exists, appends. (i won't even blame him, as such, this is the default idiot behaviour of gnudiff !)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: if you press to the makefiles head do you get a concatenation as well?
mircea_popescu: as best i can tell.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in fact i can't actually patch it out as it won't match the correct file huh, it does line by line removal
mircea_popescu: i'm as you well know the least intelligent or technically apt person here, and it takes a significant amount of backroom dealing as well as outright bribery to even get you lot to tolerate my presence.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and yes, they are shipping as soon as crate of rng lids (due in today) is here.
asciilifeform: i'm familiar with the usage, but it was a cache miss, been eons since i saw someone referred to as 'tourist'
scriba: ssh banner of 109.242.75.252 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1
asciilifeform: ( if the cards look somewhat familiar to readers, it is because they are physically standard 'vme', as also seen on certain sun and other large machines of the period )
asciilifeform: https://www.okqubit.net/symbolics << other photos from same, he has same memory, i/o, etc. as my unit.
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform also has a ~working~ 3620 but it is useless for phf's purpose , it was implemented as massive pile of ttl and a few ~dozen~ gate arrays )
asciilifeform: ^ what mircea_popescu referred to as 'tanks part'
asciilifeform: presumably you could just as readily be involved in the felling of trees, mixing of cement, whatever else goes into building house.
asciilifeform: y'know, as in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623271 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: prolly should churn the chain as a test yeh. also a tx fuzzer would be great in general.
ben_vulpes: i went so far as to set up a solipsistic test net before bumping into the dumb-as-rocks "needs 2 nodes in order to mine" shit
mod6: ben_vulpes' is making some super cool v automated tests as well. there is a bit of overlap, but perhaps one day, his will become the defacto-standard tests. mine are a bit brittle to say the least.
mod6: in fantasy land, you can make up reality as you go. np.
asciilifeform: (there is no way to demonstrate the destruction of coin in any permanent way, so this tx will remain relevant for so long as bitcoin marches along)
asciilifeform: massive as in, most of a block ?
asciilifeform: otherwise, as mircea_popescu said, nodice.
phf: possibly proper adatron solution would be to allocate a block and use it as operational space too
asciilifeform: if 'at least', the degenerate case wins, i can qualify a block as the successor to itself
mircea_popescu: yeah, but that fixes nothing. as long as you use hashing, you have collisions.
mircea_popescu: the largest problem being that as difficulty increases, it becomes more and more feasible to simply seek a hash, in comparative terms. considering the disproportion of effect (one gives you a 1/2/2/2/2/2 of 50 btc, the other fucks up the toy entirely) it's a virtual certainty that eventually it will be economically reasonable to divert resources from mining to this hash colliding.
asciilifeform: as i currently understand, both x and y would have to be valid tx, for anything to happen (if y is invalid, it will not be mined).
asciilifeform: just as i described for 'tx vs larval-tx' disjunction.
phf: ok, so experimental features on btcbase is that in memory presser now works. each patch has a "tree" link, that shows you a list of files (ones that are explicitly touched by the patch are marked as "modified"), and can look at each individual file
mircea_popescu: but from a management perspective, it makes you write < 1k lines code 3x as slow and > 10k lines code 3x as fast.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ci as such is not even a bad idea. compile and run pile of tests frequently, an expansion of "save whenever you stop typing"
scriba: Logged on 2017-03-11: [21:18:59] <Framedragger> :). one decent part of devops is CI, i thought. it's even mentioned as possibility for trb dev http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-15#1466922
trinque: as I understand it PostgreSQL is more or less "closest thing to oracle without having sold first-born per core"
a111: Logged on 2017-01-24 00:58 trinque: gonna DNS at all, might as well do it at the most-fed ministry
ben_vulpes: "hey boss, this looks like something written to suck devs into paying a consulting company to fix bugs in their own software, shall we introduce it as a dependency in our stack?"
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: 'tisn't as though hftbro is exhaustive banger-on of every dumb thing, just the ones he's faced with
Framedragger: :). one decent part of devops is CI, i thought. it's even mentioned as possibility for trb dev http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-15#1466922 ☝︎
ben_vulpes: critical production as distinct from toy production?
ben_vulpes: eh you have a ups in play as well
ben_vulpes: yeah the thing approximately works as an uptime monitor for impoverished ustards running 20 side projects on a single aws t1.micro
asciilifeform: trinque: reminds me of the multiple legends that abound re the old sov habit of hanging carpets on walls. 'we're eastern orcs, we've been doing this since the mongols' -- nope. false. 'it's because of cold cement in hruschev-era flats' -- possible. 'it was so as not to hear the neighbours fuck' -- most likely.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: 'isolation' in the sense you picture it, would be a useful thing if it actually worked. items like, e.g., vmware, come close, but still no cigar (you can leak bits via cache skulduggery, as discussed every six months or so in the log for past 3+ yrs, and various other ways)
mircea_popescu: it may feed you, but it will sure as fuck wet your pants.
Framedragger: a process by which one restricts the system-provided resources that a particular entity (just "process", for now, say) is exposed to; the effect of which is that the entity functions as if in a stand-alone system dedicated to its purpose
ben_vulpes: this is seen as an inevitability and not a cancer somehow
Framedragger: i expect folks regard the "crash and go away" as a feature - just restart it bro, etc.
ben_vulpes: you say this as though you think i'm unaware
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625594 << docker containers are *supposed* to be ephemeral. 'volatile containers' in itself is not a worthless concept. don't take it as me advocating for them, just, ftr. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the two are economically about the same size, but the dutch army would count as a half regiment of the turkish.
Framedragger: ah i may have read it, did it mention DBs, too, as in "why the fuck would you put db in there"
mircea_popescu: these great papier mache roofs that work fine as roofs until it finally rains, heh.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, trilema serves the 350kb zuleika story in ~500ms. FILESYSTEM IS ABOUT AS SLOW!
mircea_popescu: as it is, now.
mircea_popescu: the insanity of putting such a thing there, as opposed to you know, THE FUCKING WALLET
asciilifeform: 'let's make blocks variable length' 'let's make tx variable length' 'let's make tx INDICES variable and UNBOUNDED length' 'because mother dropped me as a baby'
asciilifeform: the Right Thing, as i see it, is : if a tx is in orphaned block, it does not belong in the index table
mircea_popescu: it's probably the cause for the whole spend thing, as a sort of unexamined insurance.
mircea_popescu: it's not "as if it never happened". it ACTUALLY DID NOT HAPPEN.
asciilifeform: anyway i described an algo that wasn't retarded and doesn't pull in 10,000 lines of open sores ???. and it's as if this neverhappened, for some reason.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625333 << as i also described earlier, there are fundamental problems with all 'general purpose' fs, from bitcoin pov. mainly, they 'pessimize' for 'least common case', which happens to be our ~most~ common case : creation of file ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-10-31 00:21 asciilifeform: as in, 'bitcoinfs.'
mircea_popescu: what i want to hear is, (preferably proof) as to why journaling filesystem can't store files in directories!
mircea_popescu: can definitely also store by shifted blockheight, 0000/0000 etc. it will still be a thing as large as the other one
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625335 << i'm surprised that ext4 is even considered, as opposed to ext2. i believe we even had a thread about it some long time ago ☝︎
Framedragger: also, as asciilifeform said, cache can really confuse the hell out of any metrics. e.g., disk cache. so i'd need to probably restart whole box to be sure (yes lol, but i think i should)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger suppose you store the blocks whole. what is the seek time of one dozen 1mb files dispersed randomly in a 8 deep directory structure, defined as (time when all are in ram) - (time when call was made) ?
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 12:10 mircea_popescu: dude, they fucking gutted them. olympus agreed to pay the usg ~70 billion yen in fines, and install obama's children as an "independent outside monitor". whole corp market cap being you know, 1.3trn or some shit. who the fuck pays 5% of the market cap as a fine already, what is this, Совет Экономической Взаимопомощи ?
mircea_popescu: why phrase it as this rather than plainly "i will" ? to place disincentive on others doing it ? (hey, if i do it he won't) rather than incentive (he's doing it, let me do it too) ?
mircea_popescu: never as simple as all that.
asciilifeform: so long as they get 'feeling of power' from koscheiing on the embers.
mircea_popescu: even now, you understand this alfie, EVEN NOW there's girls spreading for random dorks somewhere notwithstanding you're looking for a girl just like them. and they won't as much as whatsapp a notification to you!
mircea_popescu: ie, they may have proven themselves to you, but they have not to me. as far as im concerned, stroutsup = dks = tim swanson = leah what's her ass = etcetera.
phf: literally none of these people are directly in my wot, and my interactions with them are as frustrating as yours. but with patience you can extract useful things out of them. yours and mp's conclusion is that there's nothing of worth there, well then!
asciilifeform: was it possible to misread this as 'he has the src' ?
mircea_popescu: not that there's anything wrong with it, as a device. it's funny, even. but if man becomes his devices man misses out on things which, upon examination, man did not want to miss.
asciilifeform: phf: i was given him as a paid support .
mircea_popescu: nor do i mean it as a belittlement. obviously train runs on tracks, car runs on road but lower efficiency ; 4wd needs not road even worse efficiency etc. you are what you are -- but just so, the problem is what it is.
asciilifeform: i wrote to more or less everybody who more or less so much as mentioned having heard of a lispm.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-11 00:18 phf: your approach to sourcing this info is by googling, while actually getting in touch with people who might know is derided as "whispering". while the content's been published and public since forever, those who follow along presumbly knew since then
asciilifeform: as a signer of a motherfucking 9k cheque
asciilifeform: i wrote to him as a LICENSED BUYER
mircea_popescu: that's the distinguishing feature of it - as many years as until you notice.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: since '09 or so i was one of very few people publicly interested in reversing the bolix gear. and apparently ~all of the aficionados, saw me as 'dangerous fool' who 'might piss off dks'...
phf: your approach to sourcing this info is by googling, while actually getting in touch with people who might know is derided as "whispering". while the content's been published and public since forever, those who follow along presumbly knew since then ☟︎
asciilifeform: as i said just few min ago,
Framedragger: but yah fair enough may as well try