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asciilifeform: not to mention that even 'soldier' noad, is not actually cheap, costs like horse not like goat. ( considering that you want ssd, something like a respectable net pipe, uninterrupted current, distance from mordor, if available, etc )

a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 08:30 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865674 << you're too focused on this "node is a battleship" pov. nodes ocme in herds, they're zerglings not protoss.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865782 << dun matter if yer an admiral, or emperor, you got 1 arse. the node you ~generate~ tx on, ~is~ a battleship. ☝︎

bvt: given that there is a single temporary file -- would ./ also work? ./tmp directory would have to be separately created and removed, and the less unix fs is touched, the better, i guess.

a111: Logged on 2018-10-24 20:28 phf: i think it's an open question for the logs, whether or not /tmp is canonical place for putting temporary files, and whether or not writing a copy of what's being pressed in some arbitrary place (for all practical purposes) is a good idea

bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865707 << i see a point re not writing above ./; will reimplement using ./tmp. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: IF your program puts something in /tmp, your . is /, and live with that (i for instance will never sign such a monstrosity, unless it's the os/kernel itself)

a111: Logged on 2018-10-24 18:45 asciilifeform: mod6: in fact, and iirc i discussed this 2y or so ago in the l0g, by my current understanding of the reorg mechanism, it is possible to wedge ~any~ noad by throwing a specially- 'retro'-mined block with a higher work delta than the 'genuine' one at a particular point. then reorg dun trigger at all.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865674 << you're too focused on this "node is a battleship" pov. nodes ocme in herds, they're zerglings not protoss. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-24 17:09 asciilifeform: it is my understanding that you'll need a postbox to open company, pretty much anywhere, regardless

mircea_popescu: there's a reason crabs never discover zanzibar and nigerians in a pot never get out. the reason is -- THAT VERY FAMBLY.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865590 << one time, a moron/filipina/african/whatever got $500 together, and in preference of buying indoor plumbing, or a gf/goat/whatever, bought miami ticket. once there, discovered it sucks terribly. first impulse was to leave a very scathingly honest review on miami.yelp ; but in the 18 minutes the page took to load (hurray for "modern" ux2.0 pid eins!) they changed their mind, left ver ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-24 16:57 Mocky: unrelatedly, the miami in these filipinas and africans is off the fucking charts. they literally cannot sniff even a whiff of 'america aint that great' without spitting out 'america is the best, how could you even think it's not'

a111: Logged on 2018-10-24 16:03 asciilifeform: bvt: on contemplation, i'm thinking possibly mips should simply get own v-branch, if we ever actually get hold of a mips.

a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 22:30 asciilifeform: defo seems to be a misconfigured/maliciously-configged shitfork noad, none of the tx hashes in the inv's line up with anything from human planet

asciilifeform: ( i omit to mention ~large~ fabs, given as if you aint representing a large and known $$$ concern, they dun even return calls )

asciilifeform: there's a coupla 'small scale' fabs, but on close examination smell like ripoff, they ship with literally 0 guarantee of yield , and in laughable qty , and with laughable transistor count, and -- to add insult to injury -- die packaging not included, you gotta somehow find someone to do it, somewhere ☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 04:50 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865364 << might be, actually. wanna price a minimal and a reasonable asic run ?

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865735 << i took a stab at this 2y ago, was very frustrating on acct of asic-baking not being a 'cash and carry' process like e.g. pcb-baking, but a heavily meat-powered affair where the derps want to 'get to know you' to figure out how much they can fleece ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 17:11 asciilifeform: ( nao i'm curious, what, by d00d's lights, is 'full node', and where might one get such a thing )

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865401 << this is perennial wank in the style of "not a true church" etc. xtian minds at work. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 14:19 asciilifeform: i'ma describe , for the l0gz : ideal cpu for crypto would be something quite like the schoolbook mips.v -- no cache, no branch prediction, no pipeline, no dram controller (run off sram strictly), a set of large regs for multiply-shift , and dedicated pipe to FG (i.e. have single-instruction that fills a register with entropy )

mircea_popescu: not wasted effort even if we don't end up baking it, logs will reflect a dated pricepoint, which is soemthing.

a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 14:09 asciilifeform: if this were a bake-by-the-thousands product, we could bake asic. but currently this is not realistic imho

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865364 << might be, actually. wanna price a minimal and a reasonable asic run ? ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in today's gnat retardations : apparently it is impossible to use ( but can define!!!11 just fine ! ) a generic that takes a String as 'in', without secondary stack.

asciilifeform: ( the problem of ciphering a block device in such a way as to avoid the penguin ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590007 ) is tricky but not insurmountable ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: ( for the l0gz : from asciilifeform's pov, 'sane disk crypter' is an item that gets keyed via onboard keyboard jack, e.g. serpents, the attached disk, and unkeyed when powered off or at the closing of a contact attached to $whatever ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: phf: funnily enuff, just about erry year i briefly contemplate baking a sane disk crypter, but always run against same wall -- sata interface is ~unobtainable outside of reich-asics

a111: Logged on 2018-10-24 20:31 phf: i like to keep things red/black, so that e.g. red disk plates go into tomato soup at some point, but considering how leaky the whole system is, there's not really a red/black within the same machine anyway

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865708 << if pc iron had its shit together, there would not even need to be such a thing as 'red' disk -- only (temporarily) 'red' sram, and buncha freely backed up 'black' disk. ☝︎

phf: i like to keep things red/black, so that e.g. red disk plates go into tomato soup at some point, but considering how leaky the whole system is, there's not really a red/black within the same machine anyway ☟︎

phf: i think it's an open question for the logs, whether or not /tmp is canonical place for putting temporary files, and whether or not writing a copy of what's being pressed in some arbitrary place (for all practical purposes) is a good idea ☟︎☟︎

bvt: hi, phf! i can provide a follow-up vpatch for respecting TMP/TMPDIR

a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 21:41 bvt: a better write-up on the vpatch temporary file creation: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/vpatch-replacing-mktemp3

asciilifeform: it's really a classic example, imho, of a mechanism that requires wot ( and ergo, an out-of-band forcing knob, 'no, you do not get to rewrite history, even if you have 9000 sybils' )

asciilifeform: and yes a node you plug in today ~will~ likely sync, but this is only because the noise floor is low enuff.

asciilifeform: ( if were working strictly 'by the net rules', no one would ever do this, 'i have a node, it knows what the world height is', but this is not the actual practice )

asciilifeform: even the act of looking at the heights of other nodes, with naked eye, when syncing your own, is a primitive form of checkpointism.

asciilifeform: ( and i'll add that 'i sync all my new noades from existing ones' is a form of checkpointing , yer still weaseling out of using 'strictly clean' http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865227 mechanism , there ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: mod6: in fact, and iirc i discussed this 2y or so ago in the l0g, by my current understanding of the reorg mechanism, it is possible to wedge ~any~ noad by throwing a specially- 'retro'-mined block with a higher work delta than the 'genuine' one at a particular point. then reorg dun trigger at all. ☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu was not fond of 'cement', because sees (correctly) that it is a kludge. but imho given the single-threaded classical trb, it or something like it, is necessary

mod6: right, could be worth a test and perhaps the 'cement' suggestion.

asciilifeform: theoretically it'll get reorg'd when honest noad later connects. but afaik this has not been tested, i personally do not know if a 1000+ -blocks reorg will succeed.

asciilifeform: speaking moar generally of replays -- because of the idjit method shitoshi used for block-gettin', where 1 peer can ~monopolize connection for just about as long as he wants -- a stock trb node , syncing from empty, is in fact in a position to be fed just about arbitrarily long replay chain. which is why my interest in sane checkpoint variant.

lobbesbot: bvt: Sent 34 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i left a comment on your www, should be in your queue

bvt: comment approved, i would do a writeup on this topic (so far ETA middle of next week, this sunday night very optimistically).

asciilifeform: i dun have a tcpdump on that thing at all times, lol, no amt of disk count conceivably suffice

BingoBoingo: The declaration that one isn't a pink manhooker isn't something the Uruguayos would say, but they understand it.

BingoBoingo: Bad spanish comes in two flavors: Intelligible and Unitelligable. The Uruguayos have all sorts of sayings that aren't translatable to proper spanish, which they use for ingroup signallying. This means bad spanish intentionally used against the Uruguayos and Uruguayas needs to be A/B tested.

asciilifeform: in ru prison tradition, was sorta opposite formula, when they lowered a d00d into pederasty, would give'im a gurl's name, but still address as 'he'

BingoBoingo: I also tell them I am a fan of Bolnasoro in Brazil. And to that I respond "No soy un puto rosa"

Mocky: now if trump had promised to build a wall around D.C., then may have voted lol

BingoBoingo: I explain Trump is a clow who tells you what he is going to do, but Clitler is a backstabbing liar who surprises you with her evil acts, just like Hussein Bahama

Mocky: BingoBoingo, met up with a canadian teacher today who asked *me* if I voted for trump, i told her she was funny

asciilifeform: !Q later tell bvt i left a comment on your www, should be in your queue

asciilifeform: i can't picture how it could hurt, tho. having a working artifact in yer hand readily distinguishes you from the indian 'my CREATIVE BIZNISS IDEA!111' folx.

Mocky: i'll hit some people up tonight and I'll be hanging with a few dozen westerners tomorrow night at the four seasons, i'll bring it up there too

asciilifeform: but imho it's worth a shot.

asciilifeform: i.e. whether it is even possible to get Mocky a box prior to his expedition time running out

asciilifeform: Mocky: in usa i found that i had to get a postbox simply to get a lease for office that has own postbox, 'catch-22', but possib. other places moar sane

Mocky: you need a physical office space to be inspected to get the trade license and open company, so external not needed for that

asciilifeform: a working FG could go a long way, potentially.

asciilifeform: it is my understanding that you'll need a postbox to open company, pretty much anywhere, regardless ☟︎

asciilifeform: Mocky: so see if you can get a postbox, or something like it, if it's practical.

Mocky: they have money here and there are a lot things that are notdumb. especially when compared to africa

asciilifeform: not entirely unrelatedly, Mocky do you have a FG with you ?

asciilifeform: a 500 $ tourist ticket would cure'em in a week, but who would buy it for rando orc.

Mocky: unrelatedly, the miami in these filipinas and africans is off the fucking charts. they literally cannot sniff even a whiff of 'america aint that great' without spitting out 'america is the best, how could you even think it's not' ☟︎

asciilifeform: Mocky ( and for the l0gz ) -- if it aint obvious from the FG src : the thing spends first six ticks of the clock on powerup listening for signs of a working external clock on CLK pin; if it finds one (i.e. it's pulled high on board, and can only fall low if there's a 'master' connected) it becomes 'slave' until powerdown.

asciilifeform: lessee what mircea_popescu thinks; this is a classic example of the type of knot i rely on him to cut.

asciilifeform: complicating proggy simply because there's 1 broken system somewhere, is not imho a winning proposition.

asciilifeform: bvt: on contemplation, i'm thinking possibly mips should simply get own v-branch, if we ever actually get hold of a mips. ☟︎

asciilifeform: the chance of deadlock is vanishingly small, esp. if you include a random delay during power-up, so that even if for some perverse reason 'a' and 'b' are started off the same power supply , they cannot deadlock.

asciilifeform: sorta like the ancient algo where two boys hold a stick and break it

asciilifeform: Mocky: relatedly to 'who's top' algo , you may find the method illustrated in FG to be of interest, http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis/tree/fg.v#L269 ( tldr : it's a straight 'foot race', and, for physical reasons, never ends in a 'tie' in practice )

mod6: *nod* I was a bit curious as to what type of slop they were trying to feed us.

a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 01:51 mod6: Gotta catch up on l0gz and the rest. In particular, I'm just about nowhere on my task of creating answers to FAQs/Common Questions about the Foundation itself. I'll be working on that this week as a main priority - will post what I have for review/comments/corrections in #trilema by end of weekend.

asciilifeform: bvt: thing is, there's a non-negotiable must-have subset of posix, that ~cannot~ be implemented as pure ada. e.g. the udp structs liquishit. or , as we learned from bvt , open()

asciilifeform: Mocky: i can think of several algos for reliably picking 'left' and 'right' without any manual config ( recall, 'a' and 'b' have the cards slotted in, in opposite orders, call'em pad 'x' and 'y' , 'a' has x-y and b y-x -- both get same final xor, x xor y, is used as pad p )

a111: Logged on 2018-10-24 13:40 asciilifeform: briefly revisiting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865463 >> nobody noticed the omission, but i oughta've pointed out that 'a' and 'b' gotta proceed from opposite ends of the pad, when sending, otherwise risk collision

Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865522 >> plus then you either have to reverse the pad for one, or maintain a bit of state for top-eater vs bottom-eater ☝︎

bvt: i would much prefer going pure ada for a subset of posix. otherwise it's the same as relying on GNAT-specific packages -- it exports plenty of interesting stuff, not sure about networking though.

asciilifeform: imho, segregating as much as possible of unix liquishit in a short .c, is cleaner than buncha Import() and hardcoded flag constants derived by guesswork

bvt: yes, i skimmed through it. all these sockaddr structures would be a bitch to do in ada. this is why i believe it would be useful to define, what subset we'd need.

asciilifeform: there is afaik no clean way of portably eating the ridiculous c structs without actually including a .c component.

asciilifeform: bvt: didja get a chance to read my udp lib ? the structs thing is the reason for http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_errata_asciilifeform/tree/udp/libudp/unix_udp.c .

bvt: well, for the library that i had in mind was strictly a database of flag name->int mappings, syscall numbers, maybe structure definitions.

asciilifeform: but currently seems to me that it is impossible to write a portable proggy that uses open() without a .c that #include's the system's flags

asciilifeform: bvt: i have a variant of this in ffa, and yet another subset in mmap

bvt: i would try to make some sort of write-up about this. i wanted to suggest making a Ada library that exposes a subset of Linux system calls without C code, because i clearly needed it for the tempfile.

asciilifeform: my mmap thing was originally c-free (aside from a coupla imported, adatronically, calls) but apparently will have to include a .c simply for open(), to be portable.

asciilifeform: it is not possible to get away without open() in a nontrivial proggy on unixlike

a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 21:41 bvt: a better write-up on the vpatch temporary file creation: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/vpatch-replacing-mktemp3

a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 18:01 asciilifeform: in an asynchronous scheme, you gotta explicitly divide the pad in halves, one for a->b and one for b->a, so as to exclude any possibility of either end making use of a block of pad that may have already been made use of by other side meanwhile.

asciilifeform: briefly revisiting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865463 >> nobody noticed the omission, but i oughta've pointed out that 'a' and 'b' gotta proceed from opposite ends of the pad, when sending, otherwise risk collision ☝︎☟︎

billymg: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865377 << BingoBoingo: nice. imo it's a great way to respond. "oh a CoC? why yes, great idea! in fact let's take it one step further" -- a sort of embrace, extend, extinguish strategy ☝︎

asciilifeform: i suspected shitfork, when realized that the 501 blox gotta be a few kB most, ea. -- my pipe couldn't disgorge 501 human-sized blox in <2sec ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( bullet still costs a day's work, or so, to set up shitnode-of-the-day, then find some exchange where it can even be traded , etc )