log☇︎
203900+ entries in 0.122s
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634740 << for logs - original erlang demo with phones (you've probably seen this alf): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrIjfIjssLE ☝︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or (as discussed by naggum), what is worse, 'we will learn from the Success! of microshit'
mircea_popescu: trinque the king wasn't in any sense shitty, mind. you familiar with the tea story, yes ?
mircea_popescu: misconstrued circumstantial constraints, "we're a business, we don't have the time to fix the world" "oh, those guys failed, we gotta '''learn''' from their experience" etc
trinque: hell, ~america~ is this. "we had a shitty king so ~no matter what burns~ no 'king'"
asciilifeform: but there it was.
asciilifeform: this was idiocy, of a slowly lethal sort that makes radium toothpaste look quite harmless, and we are still paying for it
asciilifeform: it was a time of 'commodification' and 'deskilling'
trinque: whole industry was traumatized *by that*
trinque having network troubles, slowing me down
asciilifeform: trinque: to put it in context, we're speaking of roughly 1990, and the smouldering thermonuke crater where the folx who 'built from first principles' (symbolics) used to be , was still smoking
trinque: asciilifeform: biased away from the problem that hurt their business most
trinque: point was in each case the design is biased *away*
asciilifeform: trinque: erlang wasn't simply about 'uptime', or even 'no pointer arithmetic', it also was the only case i know of where process migration actually worked ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: well they ~were~ 'best days', it was a thing that they could not, in thousand years, produce
mircea_popescu: idiots without a culture and without a history. "we found that lantern in the woods, and boy, those were the best days of chuka life!!1"
mircea_popescu: "Me and some guys from school had a band and we tried real hard. Jimmy quit, Jody got married, shoulda known, we'd never get far."
asciilifeform: but if you scratch off the savage ochre paint etc. you can see '1958' stamped on the steel.
asciilifeform: affixing all sorts of irrelevant 'shit bolted to the side'.
asciilifeform: they keep finding the same flashlight ('don't use promiscuous pointers and type casts') and repaint it in various tribal colours.
asciilifeform: currently 'rust' et al. decade ago -- haskell. prior -- the java people.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the chukchas keep finding the same flashlight in the woods, again and again and again
trinque: they leaned in the direction exactly opposite their worst pain
asciilifeform: it's a thing.
mircea_popescu: ^ that's a decent doctoral thesis you just titled.
asciilifeform: (and naturally was convinced that ~his~ cure -- was unique)
mircea_popescu: there is that.
asciilifeform: anyway erlang is imho only worth discussing as part of a larger pattern -- industry after industry independently discovered that c -- and its entire approach to logic -- is poison ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: the only one you can buy today, is from the hipsters.
asciilifeform: (it has useful examples from telecom systems)
asciilifeform: sorta funny bit, actually, the original, THIN, book, is ~unobtainable;
asciilifeform not an erlang user. but did read the 1990 b00k from ericsson. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: well ok then.
mircea_popescu: cuz that's what language means. has, or at least could have, self universe.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 1st one, funnily, was in... prolog! 2nd -- erlang.
mircea_popescu: ie, does this alleged non-scripting-language bootstrap ?
mircea_popescu: in principle anything that can be run can be compiled, this isn't a matter. the question to you alf is, that "actual optimizing compiler, like gcc", is it WRITTEN IN ERLANG ?
asciilifeform: trinque: if you weld wings to a trabant, it could, theoretically, take off. does not make 'airplane'.
trinque: llvm can compile js to native code. now what?
mircea_popescu: can't say i spent all that much time investigating.
mircea_popescu: then perhaps i am mistaken and indeed it doesn't belong in that list.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not to bytecode, not to forth-style threadedcode. had actual optimizing compiler, like gcc.
mircea_popescu: i can compile javascript to bytecode. what's that prove ?
asciilifeform: it was a general-purpose thing that compiled down to x86.
mircea_popescu: lua also worked well in its industrial niche ; dob isn't that much of a consideration imo
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 15:28 mircea_popescu: there's no utility involved. suburban ustard wears item because of ~how it makes her feel~ to ~be seen~ as ~being one of the~ rather than any use.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i will also nitpick : 'erlang' does not belong in the list, it was a 1980s product that worked quite well in its industrial niche (large telco switches) but was later stolen and used as a totem by the folx from yesterday's thread ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633873 ) ☝︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque: my current understanding is that derps say 'system language' when what is meant is 'has something that passes for a x86 compiler, and a c ffi'
trinque: no such thing as a "rust machine" or "golang machine" but lets not dwell on the fact that there's a machine down there too long.
trinque: in re: "systems programming language" it's a way of retconning C into a category with many possible members defined by "I am very smart, and could, you know, build an operating system in this"
trinque: the social commentary regards creatures who are addicted to pats on the head. whatever the supposed technical merits of the thing, they are not what guys like the one in that thread care about.
trinque: asciilifeform: as I understand it, which is at a distance, they added an extra type system, concurrency tools, and memory management for phree, and decided this needed its own syntax
a111: Logged on 2017-03-30 14:04 mircea_popescu: i'm not saying "rust is bad mmkay". i couldn't care less, there's been tons of "new languages" fulfilling the need of people to "revolutionize". they all work, exactly in the way custom pliers work.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634673 << this is a terrible libel to custom pliers -- who do not randomly morph into liquishit in your hands, no ☝︎
trinque: that the guy was an SJW is not unrelated
trinque: they like it because it's like mother telling them they followed all the rules, and didn't even have to think about it.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 19:28 ben_vulpes: funny how all manifestations of modernity look alike. entertain even a smidge of wokeness and you'll wake up in trans camp.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634349 << how tru this is. because if it's sociualloy acceptable to be fat, why wouldn't it be socially acceptable to be stupid! ☝︎
trinque: nah, I don't write the stuff. just was subjected to some fat idiot prattling on about rust one night
asciilifeform: trinque: that looks hilarious. do you have a copy running? try putting, say, duff's device, through it...
shinohai thinks the term "corrode" is appropriate ....
mircea_popescu: there's MORE work to do with automation, not less.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi why they imagine this. in point of fact the system that delivers milk in a bottle so they don't have to milk their own cow is MORE complex, not less.
mircea_popescu: "automated" is a byword for "i don't have to do any work".
trinque: asciilifeform: https://github.com/jameysharp/corrode << people actually do this
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is how they think.
trinque: just some guy who read a bunch of hackernews and thinks he has opinions
asciilifeform: 'if all git commits could be automatically converted to Rust' for instance.
asciilifeform: read like a trololol, is all.
mircea_popescu: it seems entirely plain to me.
asciilifeform: also mircea_popescu the 'rust' link simply gotta be a parody
mircea_popescu: anyway, fucking tard. "my name is mircea_popescu ; i've been using chairs pretty much every day since the late 70s, and recently i started getting involved in this fantastic chair community"
asciilifeform: meanwhile, usg decides that it only needs ~one~ GE... https://archive.is/VHvz8 << RIP westinghouse.
mircea_popescu: i'm not buying custom pliers, and the pretense of the custom plier fans that their custom pliers ain't custom but standard is uninteresting.
mircea_popescu: i'm not saying "rust is bad mmkay". i couldn't care less, there's been tons of "new languages" fulfilling the need of people to "revolutionize". they all work, exactly in the way custom pliers work. ☟︎
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-pisspots/ << Trilema - The Pisspots
Framedragger: for posterity, rust does have things like raw pointers (and no gc), etc.; but the kommunity around it is at this point perhaps ~insufferable, much like the javascript hipster legions. which is not a point to be ignored
mircea_popescu: fucking decay of idiocy, they want to turn the nodes-notnodes binome into fullnodes-nodes ? if you don't verify blocks you're not a node, if you can't program the machine it's not a language etc. holy shit.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, when the fuck did a COMPUTER LANGUAGE, ie, a language you can program the machine in, become a "systems language" ? why, to make room for javascript being a language ? it ain't a fucking language, it's a scripting language which means jack-all.
mircea_popescu: they're mentally retarded, there's no two ways about it. people who are in their 20s/30s today and were parented by the idiots and imbeciles in their 40s and 50s and 60s are simply and irretrievably retarded.
mircea_popescu: " My name is Joel Jacobson. I’ve been using PostgreSQL almost every day since 2002. Recently, I started getting involved in the community around this fantastic RDBMS."
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634660 << "My motivation is primarily I don't want to learn all the over-complicated details of C, but at the same time I would like to be productive in a safe system language, a category in which Rust seems to be alone." ☝︎
trinque: thing appeared to be ping/ponging with somebody, but in limbo
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: But those bolts are RECESSED!
pete_dushenski: for outside bolts, no jurisdiction afaik seems to take issue with bolt-on fender flares, eg. http://b.cdnbrm.com/images/products/rell/fender_trim/1974_bushwacker_fender_flares_pocket_style_2010_f150.jpg
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634635 << yes, but volga also went about 10 miles on the gas toyota does the full 100. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-30 03:54 asciilifeform: the hypothetical subj would look something like a t34
pete_dushenski: you probably already know this but it's awfully hard to take your 'snore this' and 'kindergarten that' seriously when you move the goalposts so. but it's still fun trying to pin the lubed eel, don't get me wrong.
pete_dushenski: no doubt about that. frozen prairies are same in this regard as dc swamplandia.
asciilifeform: generally i try to avoid drive.
asciilifeform: 'inexpensive after you kill the shysters who supplied the defective false alternatives'
pete_dushenski: um. less expensive than alternative.
pete_dushenski: not cheap because leveraged resources of two world war winning titans of industry and their very concerted efforts to placate masses. today, bits on facesnap suffice.
pete_dushenski: but both failed criteria 1 and 2. weren't cheap and kept breaking down (unless you think 'practical' is 'big boot', which imo is insufficient)
pete_dushenski: there aren't enough alfs on this rock for cheap ironmobiles with 'all 3'
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: whole point would be to piss on the fashionista faggotry and get a cheap, practical, repairable (yes, they lied to you, CAN have all 3) machine.
pete_dushenski: not for plebs like us, sorry. golden toilet budget only.
pete_dushenski: oh but you want to afford it ? well, buy citroen
asciilifeform: but you get the idea.
asciilifeform: well, more btr than t