180600+ entries in 0.109s
sina: any actual practical example of making it spill out of
the
time box? lets say
two independent processes, one is preparing
the payloads and putting
them in an "outbox"
☟︎ sina: asciilifeform: how about
this simpler model. Nodes only accept connections at interval N seconds, and during
time between intervals it is preparing encrypted payload of all messages since last seen for each peer. so when A connects
to B and says "Hi, I'm A", B responds with a pre-prepared payload encrypted for As key
sina: again, I'm not proposing my impl as "hey you should use
this!", only wanted
to ask you some questions re
timing
sina: asciilifeform: don't pop a vein, I absolutely get your point, I was
trying
to explain (erroneous or otherwise)
the path walked
a111: Logged on 2016-02-07 23:57 mircea_popescu: complete anonimity between peers more
than one node removed ; complete secrecy outside of
the node group ; no integrity or authenticity outside of
the wot
trust.
a111: Logged on 2016-02-08 00:06 mircea_popescu:
the only assurance
to be had here comes from a gossipd model. where anyone could have written
the plaintext, and for all anyone POORLY CONNECTED knows,
they probably did.
sina: I got
that impression from reading gossipd logs, obviously I didn't read everything ever because I only learned about
the linespeed
thing yesterday
a111: Logged on 2016-02-08 00:05 maqp:
The point is, unless you encrypt
the message, anyone might have created
the plaintext
sina: I assumed it was deedbot style OTP
thing
sina: and right now my impl does send everything except
the challenge in plaintext!
sina: ok fair. see,
the spec I was working from it only mentions encryption for
the "session establishment" so I assumed
that encryption of actual message payloads was
to be with out of band encryption
sina: I
think we might be speaking at corss purposes and just wish
to clarify
that point before proceeding
sina: can I clarify something? when you say gossipd are you assuming
that all
traffic is enciphered?
sina: why would
there be a long
term key? I mean, right now in
the impl
the process
to rotate a key is manual, but if you're using ephemeral key why not just "chain"
them in
the sense
that at
the end of
the "session" you pass some ciphertext
that includes
the next ephemeral key, wait for delivery ack and
then dump
the old key?
sina: another
thought, in my impl, even if you broke
the key, all
this nets you is
the ability
to have messages delivered
to you from a single node
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 19:56 asciilifeform: idea of pll is
that you can indeed see a lit match from mile away in daylight if you know 'exactly when
to look'
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 19:50 asciilifeform:
the imho interesting part of
this
tale is
that ~time~ is
the most, it
turns out, difficult side channel
to properly cement shut
sina: asciilifeform: if I'm not pestering let me
throw a couple of questions. in my impl
there are
two secret operations, 1. key generation 2. challenge decryption. for #1, it runs in a different process on a random basis and marks a portion of
the keys generated as bogus (per linked spec).
that seems like it should sufficiently obfuscate against
timing? for #2 is it possible
to do some bogus ops in a similar
sina: I have been reading
the logs, agreed
they are handy
sina: ok fair point, I get
the general need for constant
time constant space algo regardless of gossipd stuff anyway
sina: session may be
the wrong
term. I just mean, in
the spec
http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ "III. Gossipd will receive inbound connectionsvii from identified clientsviii and on
the basis of
that identification produce an encrypted challenge string, which constitutes its response. If
the other party responds with
the proper challenge string,
the connection is established ; otherwise it is
sina: so my impl doesn't do
this currently, but imagine it
throws away
the key after
the session is established, no big deal
then
sina: but do
they not depend on measuring
the
timing over many operations?
sina: I am on
the general points
mod6: everytime I
think of a shoemaker/cobbler, i
think of
that character from A
Tale Of
Two Cities who used
to be a Doctor before he did 18 years in
the Bastille.
sina: asciilifeform: can you elaborate on
timing? in my impl each peer-pair has its own set of corresponding RSA keys and I was
thinking of adding something like, at
the end of each session a new keypair is generated and exchanged on each side
sina: mod6: ah hehe you signed on just before I went
to bed last night :P
mod6: <+sina> hows all
today, is it
time
to rotate shift mod6? << hows
that?
sina: hows all
today, is it
time
to rotate shift mod6?
sina: I honestly didn't make it because I
thought it would solve any problem, but only because I saw
the spec and happen
to be on holidays from work
this week,
thought it would be a good fun
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 16:32 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674428 << fwiw i carefully read all of it. asciilifeform's verdict: very much a gabriel_laddel-ization of gossipd. does 0 of
the necessary work, and drags in 5+GB of liquishit deps (python, sql, some derp's crypto lib.)
the amount of
this
that would have
to be rewritten, from
the ground, is 100%. not even useful as illustration of anything, because NONE of
the actually complicated moving parts of a
trinque: gotta wedge
the broomstick at
the right angle, can sit and sweep simultaneously!
mod6: yah, if you want !b, gotta make
them yourself, or hire a sandal artisan of sorts.
mod6: haha. well, suppose you're getting good re-use out of
them.
phf: nah,
that's your monthly occurrence.
☟︎ shinohai: Apparently
they made a "Mobile ethereum interface w/ encrypted messaging"
shinohai: Just another Lame Ethereum ICO
that raised millions and now gonna dump
to pay for hookers, etc.
ben_vulpes: > sold via OTC over
the course of
the next month,
to ensure it will have a negligible effect on
the market
phf: "[Global Notice] Hi all. We need
to
take services (NickServ, ChanServ and friends down for some quick database
tweaking so
they'll be unavailable for a few minutes. I'll update via WALLOPS when completed."
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform>
they spent it all on... ethertardium?! << YES!!!