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mircea_popescu: how can it miss the field anyway, wires are very hot emically.

mircea_popescu: the chinese tool of probable demise.

asciilifeform: certain if you use it 3 times!111

asciilifeform: if one were to rely on it -- worse than no tools at all, certain demise.

asciilifeform: hard to think of a more catastrophically useless tool

asciilifeform: (mostly) unrelatedly, asciilifeform bought some chinese $various , and , in the crate, discovered a phree goodie, a 'voltalert' tool, that supposedly tests for presence of mains current noncontactfully -- by looking for 50/60Hz electric field. but witness the surprise : it gives false negative on maybe 1/3 of the hot mains wires tried... ☟︎

asciilifeform: and likewise there is the 2 or so y.o. thread that all of this is a living branch of, the one with the np-hard boojums. that'd be the real mega-prize

mircea_popescu: i keep forgettiong the tards are in bayesian "intelligence" mode.

mircea_popescu: a a a the five-points-fridge

asciilifeform: naturally there was nothing provable re aes -- but it served a useful end, which was to make machine evaluation of the contents en masse, impractical

mircea_popescu: what's that do ?

asciilifeform: decompressor would brute force the N

asciilifeform: many, many years ago, asciilifeform wrote a ( and won't claim to be the only one who had this simple idea ) thing for evading censorware, that'd encipher a blob ( aes, iirc ) and package all but N bits of the key with the compressed ciphertext

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu got me thinkin', about uses.

mircea_popescu: you want to make things that can't be used ?

asciilifeform: yes but this could have a use !

mircea_popescu: not too sure what your idea of maximally nasty is, but your complaint yest was already that this is unpracticably demanding.

asciilifeform: possibly something based on travelling salesman or similar.

asciilifeform: thing is, i'm quite sure that a hashtron satisfying the original ('make it maximally nasty, with provably no respite') condition CAN be made. i'ma come back to it when i wrap up my current megabacklog.

asciilifeform: a cycle ( by mircea_popescu's own proof from other day ) is repeated ( i.e. rewound ) 1-2 times

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where do you get this ?

mircea_popescu: it's certainly not practical to simply say "i will just allocate lenM ** 2 bytes for s whenever hashing"

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a binding of 8mb for 1024 bytes of M seems perfectly fine to me,

a111: Logged on 2017-07-05 21:57 asciilifeform: this thing wouldv'e made a great olympiad problem, midnightmagic

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-05#1679457 << twas really your idea to begin with. ☝︎

asciilifeform: not tight.

asciilifeform: ( he will probably disagree, and say 'tight bound is not same as 'say how much memory and cpu'... but fact is, this is not quite the unpredictable game-of-life-style automaton contemplated earlier. )

asciilifeform: so it looks like the current algo lacks the properties 4 and 5 from mircea_popescu's article.

asciilifeform: and incidentally the bound on operations also binds S ( which grows either once or none times per. )

asciilifeform: re mircea_popescu's hash, another observation : it is not ever necessary to actually invert S. ( i will leave the reason for this, again, as an exercise to readers ) ☟︎

BingoBoingo: As opposed to Tenacity(TM)(R) which is great herbicide for blanching undesirable grassy weeds from cool season lawn.

BingoBoingo: Until the next mammal with tenacity

BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> because turnstiles are racist or i don't even know what led to the system designed such that anyone can just wander onto the trains << St Louis trains are like this, finally hit critical mass because "only white man pays" has turned train into war zone

asciilifeform: 'doctor, first delouse thyself' or how did it go.

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i'ma learn from the greats, e.g., BingoBoingo , instead!11 << Mebbe an enjoyable part time gig comes out of it? Spend some weekends delousing locals? Covnert difference to benjies and ensuitcase for flight day?

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the danger from reading teh torah comes from trying to read it alone, not from trying to read it at all. << Same problems occurs with reading "Big Book" alone. People read selectively and get weird ideas. Hence the whole idea of sponsorship, tour guide through the text and steps.

asciilifeform: and yes american ver. of the saying would probably be the thing where 'roach motel! check in, but never check out'

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma learn from the greats, e.g., BingoBoingo , instead!11

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and the thing about glue traps, is that 'entry is a buck, exit -- two' << Perhaps go and take local pesticide applicator licensing class? May improve your metaphors?

asciilifeform goes to shoot his irc client

asciilifeform: this thing wouldv'e made a great olympiad problem, midnightmagic ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( the average-case is considerably ~below~ N^2. the reason for this will be apparent when reading the proof. )

asciilifeform: and betcha mircea_popescu already found the proof of this.

asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform found that mircea_popescu's hash has an upper bound of...

ben_vulpes: heh or just have a dummy cable snake out from under the hood

trinque: gotta put a railgun in teh bed, charge that

ben_vulpes: primo spots reserved for charging 'lectrical cars tho, natch

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: outskirts of town have plentiful parking lots even trinque 's truck could fit into

ben_vulpes: it is though, obvious transit welfare for the homeless. "no i don't have id, no i don't have a place of residence, good luck getting the fine out of me"

mircea_popescu: he can't ride every day the truck parking at pdx statioons sucks

ben_vulpes: trinque: try riding ~every day, the statistics will catch up to you.

asciilifeform: now the ~reverse~ -- could be

mircea_popescu: seems moar like urban legend than anything

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do they do the "i am a black man fighting THE man therefore only white people gotta pay" thing ?

trinque: ben_vulpes: I dunno that I ever once paid for a train or streetcar in pdx

asciilifeform: we have this type of train here also, asciilifeform + pet ended up with free ride because conductor could not be arsed..

ben_vulpes: because turnstiles are racist or i don't even know what led to the system designed such that anyone can just wander onto the trains

asciilifeform: aaah aahh the ~reader~

ben_vulpes: "sorry for the inconvenience sir, you have a good day now. you know they keep saying there's a patch coming that'll improve battery life for these things, but i haven't seen it yet." "heh yeah and i don't beliueve that it'll work."

mircea_popescu: too many power outages in the best possible socialism

ben_vulpes: in shitantium lols, i submitted my nfc train fare card for inspection this am. portoscanner a: couldn't read through the leater of my wallet, b: came out of the fare inspector's pocket hung, c: unhung only to die for lack of batteries.

mircea_popescu: the danger from reading teh torah comes from trying to read it alone, not from trying to read it at all.

a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 14:34 asciilifeform: sorta was the original point of a school, neh. a reasonably safe reservation where 'chix who have not yet learned to wash' can lean to wash, without creating dangers to self and others.

asciilifeform: ( found -- possibly -- the thread, though it wasn't re proglangs : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1620042 ) ☝︎

mircea_popescu: for transport - 3rd law. for this, wot. etcetera.

mircea_popescu: there's fundamental principles that are known

asciilifeform: ( i.e. not a problem that reasonably gets a final solution, but rather shifting sets of engineering compromises )

asciilifeform: aha, or transportation.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the sense nutrition remains open problem.

asciilifeform: but that it remains an open problem.

mircea_popescu: and ftr if it's not that i want no part of it.

mircea_popescu: da fuck is this chan if it is not that ?

mircea_popescu: of course they can.

mircea_popescu: which is these ?

asciilifeform: it isn't clear to me that these can be cut

mircea_popescu: i don't mean the, give poor kids a free delousing and glasses part of no kid left behind. i mean the make smart kids dumber part.

mircea_popescu: (and yes, that's also why their ~only concern is "how to reduce friction" ie make sure it piles as well as it posdsiblu could". gendercommits and nochildleftbehinds etc all follow.

asciilifeform: ved _all_ their investments in their people this way, because it is as unhealthy for a market with disproportionate power in the hands of employees as it is with disproportionate power in the hands of employers...'

asciilifeform: '...C/C++ are quite interesting languages from a marxist point of view, too (it being May 1 and all): they are so bad that any professional who wants to do interesting work needs to learn new tools all the time and have the employer pay for it. the means of production are thus removed from the hands of the owners into the hands of the workers in a very new way. if the employers were any smart, they would not use languages that remo

mircea_popescu: like prions, stupid is that thing which has no properties besides piling well, and thereby accumulates.

mircea_popescu: because, again, iot's not the martians that did it.

mircea_popescu: tivoization of heads, and the tivoheads are oif course lapping it up.,

mircea_popescu: meanwhile bob's boss bob figures shitlang being involbved protects him from his bobs going to fred's start-up

mircea_popescu: marginal bob at google figures if there's a shitlang involved that gives him some protective moat agfainst above average fred.

mircea_popescu: this is the fundamental force fucking up it corps in the first place.

mircea_popescu: labour forcve stability works both ways, the drones wish security just as much as the dronemasters do.

mircea_popescu: on some level i am sure it was. not just the management siude though.

asciilifeform: ( somewhat unrelatedly , i find the fact of google and crapple each adopting a proprietary shitlang, to be a fascinating thing from 'labour politics' pov -- was it an attempt to put a damper on 'poaching' of workers ? or something else. )

mircea_popescu: but you were talking to phf

asciilifeform: but does the n00b know.

asciilifeform: rather than 'hey this is great candy, but why do i feel funny'

asciilifeform: because if i see an l1 fella eating rat poison, even a very very sweet one, i'd like him to at least be aware of what it is he is doing

mircea_popescu: because yes, someone certainly oughta and i couldn't in good conscience tell someone to go do it.

mircea_popescu: i'm glad to hear.

mircea_popescu: so if he is legitimately bothered by "wtf, does this EVEN REALLY work faster ?" and he goes to look into it, why are you alarmed ?

mircea_popescu: but phf has certainly earned himself the right to make that call ?

trinque: ridiculous comparision, they *test each

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: y'know, toxicologists who insist on personally tasting every sample, generally do not have long, illustrious career

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it certainly oughta. but this was not the light in which i saw the thread.

mircea_popescu: you know guns kill people and yet i being a people still know how they work and even took one apart once. as opposed to running in screaming terror