log☇︎
18200+ entries in 0.168s
asciilifeform did not grow up in moscow, and spent a total of couplea days there, as a kid, never saw this item sadly
mircea_popescu: it only has the appeal of the unknown, as in who knows what pie we find turning over this pot.
mircea_popescu: that part i believe ; but as to the science rather than the engineering of it.
asciilifeform: ( there is a legit reason why, but i will leave it as exercise for readers )
mircea_popescu: ie, there's nothing capitalist about it whatsoever ; capitalism does order the disordered symbols in similar manner as longhand does, as an act of civilisation and a point of manifest superiority pointedly absent from the work (or generally ustardian mentality today)
mircea_popescu: also lulzy, in simiular vein, though i wouldn't for a moment call it "capitalist hell". it is pure and simple collapse among the symbols, as typified in teh elevator scene.
mircea_popescu: (it didn't help that it was in the torah of the time, as per saint habarnam gospels, "only blockprinted")
asciilifeform: ( it is worth remembering that ffa is not built to be a museum piece, 'shortest physically possible rsa', but grudgingly made concessions liek abandoning egyptian mul -- so long as result is still fixedspacetime -- , so that it can actually be fired in anger . )
mircea_popescu: and he proceeded to blockprint. which was about as shocking as if he had taken off pants in class.
mircea_popescu: da fuck is wrong with people these days, i do not know, but i do recall as early teens, 12 yo or so, there was this very exciting moment in school when they imported AN AMERICAN!!! to do some english classes. this was you know, wild wild stuff at the time.
mircea_popescu: 2. we select the first 22 bits of the dividend, to wit 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 0 and we compare the divisor to it. as the divisor is larger, we add one further bit, obtaining 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 01.
mircea_popescu: W, precisely, it is to be obtained. this is why the concept of "function" as heretofore used is not useful in republican computing, and we must introduce a new item.
asciilifeform: as of my last reckoning O(n^3 log n)
a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 17:17 asciilifeform: apeloyee: anything that beats multiply-then-divide is an improvement, so long as it meets the basic demands ( constant time, constant space, NO branches that depend on input bits, no use of approximations, no massively heavy - 100 loc is a good approx max - code )
mircea_popescu would be genuinely curious if this could be done. on one hand trained girl can do wonders with ass, on other hand that thing is fragile as all fuck...
mircea_popescu: (and to round off the above : consider that the first metallic aluminum was shaped into a box and offered to the same person as the ironclad drawings were offered. whyssat ? cuz that's how all science flew back when people could control it.)
mircea_popescu: more importantly -- that the chinese DID takle over "industry", as well they should ; but that survival and prosperity depends on THIS. let them have THAT industry, it's actually a great fit for them.
asciilifeform: i can picture it. and specifically what mircea_popescu meant, re 'craftsmanship' tech as opposed to industrial/scalables
mircea_popescu: that "trademark" is now owned by unilever, as you might've guessed, and it's used to sell items in qatar, as you might've also guessed. the point being that the poor rich arabs are trying to salvage whatever's left of the tsar's pile of salvaged material, today. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: but on the significance front i asked because the principal preoccupation of the russian tsar afrter the french went stupid was to rescue as much of the old world industry stack as possible, which is how jhe ended up with swiss, austrian, french etc manufacturers.
BingoBoingo: So long as Trump can pull GOP to electoral sweet spot of a little economically liberal and a lotta socially conservative
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> j was by some accounts an introverted d00d, did not much get along with chix, after his wife died decided to solve problem 'the sexbot way' << Not 'sexbot way', in the way his time and place handled much beloved mistress; such status is indicated by liberation as opposed to re-sale of the resultant octaroon children at their coming of age (as opposed to Jefferson's death).
mircea_popescu: heck, they don't wanna fuck them as it is, TODAY! look through the dating sites, two thirds of black female profiles indicate "no black males" in some manner (such as, "no gangstas" or whatever)
mircea_popescu: all the dogs i ever met were thrilled to be scratched behind ears whenever and whichever way you felt like, the warm glow of "omfg, i am being handled BY HUMAN!!!" visibly overpowering all "thoughts" such as they had in their dog brain.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yes, because the free strings they can get hands on were written in 1980 by gosplan as quoted, rather than in 2000 by perianne boring aspie
mircea_popescu: so it's not as bad irl as one imagines.
mircea_popescu: as if it were a thing.
BingoBoingo: Well fiat by buying Chrylser seems to have went "we were fascist too, just as better as Daimler Benz" Which previously owned chysler when chrysler was Mitsubishi
BingoBoingo: Alfa Romeo returned to States recently and is marketing itself being Italian as meaning alt-ferarri
asciilifeform: ( as seen in the wv idiocy )
mircea_popescu: no, i mean from the following cultural perspective : for as long as road network continues growing, the user wants massive, impressive beast of a steel machine. to show his supremacy over the attendant landscape in proper context (ie, he's affraid of the wilderness roads expand into). once expansion stops, he wants an efficient little thing, to get it over the next guy (ie, he's affraid of neighbour). and once road network st
BingoBoingo: Well, not usually station wagons so much as hatchbacks like Ye olde economy cars
BingoBoingo: And the "nicer" Walmart always gets beat by the better at spreadsheets in space walmart as old women get their 3 status items of not being poor from the faddy not-Walmart and race the rest of their money to the bottom walmart
deedbot: BAD04B14A4545828FABCE63C3DB30625393C0BB1 registered as apeloyee.
asciilifeform: and incidentally barrett , as iirc i mentioned in yesterday's thread, requires that a*b < n^2.
asciilifeform: the only reason we are able to avoid this in karatsubamulter, is that the 2B is ~never~ treated as one number except on output, it is dealt with in parts
asciilifeform: ( which costs 4x as much. and then all the garbage that follows .)
apeloyee: same way as with divisions.
asciilifeform: ( modulus and both multiplicands have same bit width, and if you read the rest of ffa as has been posted here, you will know that NO such thing as normalization ever takes place, or will ever take place, all operands are assumed to be N-bit )
asciilifeform: i.e. 0 * 0 mod 0 must result in the execution of exactly the same sequence of cpu cycles, as maxwidthint * maxwidthint mod maxwidthint .
asciilifeform: apeloyee: anything that beats multiply-then-divide is an improvement, so long as it meets the basic demands ( constant time, constant space, NO branches that depend on input bits, no use of approximations, no massively heavy - 100 loc is a good approx max - code ) ☟︎
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> superficially it seems like omfg lotta money ; but not so bad. people can afford to make eg icecube trays that retail for 3 bux ie cost a quarter each. how many of those sell ? 10k if you're lucky. << /me read as "lotto money"
asciilifeform: but i specifically refuse'em because NOT ORTHOGONAL, they don't belong as part of a general-purpose numbertheoretical minimal 'crypto lego set'.
mircea_popescu: well, so as you see. complicated problem.
asciilifeform: i'd like it not to be lost upstack, so will restate ftr : a 'optimized' rsa that no longer fits in head and is no longer demonstrably-correct , ( and worse yet, no longer operates branch-free ) is NOT RSA and is simply a turd being fraudulently passed off as the genuine article
mircea_popescu: (ftr, what teh lordship usually catcalls as your "Goalpost sliding" is really your most carnal aspect. you sound JUST like a woman when you do it.)
asciilifeform: the process is 'must fit in head'. for so long as item fits in head, it is demonstrably solving the stated problem ( which, unsurprisingly, must also fit in head as a statement )
mircea_popescu: i know i was. ie, it was not directly evident to me that mining as originally designed has this weakness.
mircea_popescu: sounds a lot like "your house is fine mr p, for as long as you hold on to this here bearing beam"
asciilifeform: and result, whatever else it may be, is not sane. in that it no longer ~demonstrably~ behaves as specified.
asciilifeform: if idjits want to optimize in a way that results in nonfittinginhead, they may as well install winblowz
asciilifeform: ( incidentally reader might ask 'why not do montgomery? you're doing rsa anyway' and answer is not only 'maybe tomorrow, cramer-shoup and not rsa' but also that we do things such as primality testing , and other non-rsa op )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm satisfied that it holds, as written. in re knuth, turned out that i was thinking of the 'addition chains' method of mod-exp
mircea_popescu: there's even dedicated "investment" stupid money chasing such "ideas". not as many as there were in the 90s, owing to a lot of unfortunate interactions with various "transhuman" tards past 20 years, but still some.
asciilifeform: and probably last as long as plastic keys.
asciilifeform: so long as you get the sproing -- worx
mircea_popescu: i ate off my great-grandfather's set, still clean as the day in 1870 it was made.,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform silver dun tarnish lol, there's such a thing as proper silver. and it has low melting point and easy to work and it doesn't grow fungi.
asciilifeform: re 'mechanism', also can restate : if something cannot be expressed as a boolean circuit, it is not constantspacetimeizable.
asciilifeform: comparing (or subtracting) 0 and 0 takes same time as maxint and maxint or maxint and 0 etc
a111: Logged on 2017-09-12 23:12 mircea_popescu: and finally 3. the item there described is not exactly a function. it rather something i'd call a mechanism, a discrete item that does a fully defined thing. as we're looking more and more through ada eyes and constant time things and so on, a study of these mechanisms as an distinct category will prolly be useful. somewhere between conway's cells and commandline utils, they are.
mircea_popescu: and finally 3. the item there described is not exactly a function. it rather something i'd call a mechanism, a discrete item that does a fully defined thing. as we're looking more and more through ada eyes and constant time things and so on, a study of these mechanisms as an distinct category will prolly be useful. somewhere between conway's cells and commandline utils, they are. ☟︎
asciilifeform: it requires a constant-time gcd, however, to be constant-time. ( and has a problem same as above in that it takes much MORE time than naive algo if you don't reuse modulus forever )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im pretty sure i read the whole knuth as a teen, so it's likely just memory at work.
mircea_popescu: but that inconvenience is not the same as the "Same number of cycles" claim.
asciilifeform: except it does exactly as many cycles as the classical method.
asciilifeform: as far as i can see it is exactly same
mircea_popescu: whether this approach is actually faster than the current mod of 97 as implemented via knuth is open to discussion, i guess.
mircea_popescu: it is also extensible in the sense that if you wish to compute the mod of a 512 bit number, you can cut it up into as many powers of two as there are 1's, feed it into this, and get a modulus.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, modulus bitness sum as opposed to N bitness sum. but sure.
asciilifeform: the modulus is same bitness as the operands, and is not small.
mircea_popescu: you feed into my above function the list 6, 9, 15. it adds them : 30. it then writes down 30 -17 ie 13. it then writes down 13 + 17 = 30. it has peroduced a list as long as the original (3 elements), among which the SECOND is the modulus of 1433293 +7926803 +9266137
asciilifeform: so as to avoid this.
asciilifeform: so as not to feed a massive turd into an O(N^3) division algo
mircea_popescu: alrigthy, so. you take a list of numbers. you add these numbers. you write the result down. you compare this result with the modulus. if the result is smaller than the modulus, you add the modulus to it and write it underneath ; if larger, you substract the modulus and write it underneath. you repeat this step until you have a list of added/substracted moduli to the result AS LONG as the original list of elements. in it, you
asciilifeform: and if mircea_popescu writes one -- i dun care if in fortran, cobol, malbolge, whichever, so long as it's something resembling a proggy -- i promise to read.
asciilifeform: exactly as was stated.
mircea_popescu: good for you ; but your problem isn't what you presented it as being.
mircea_popescu: so you won't have many passes of it. just as many as elements in list at the most.
deedbot: 410951F4EED9132643015A058B46D224AE9E116C is already registered as rothbart.
mircea_popescu: rothbart you're perhaps too new to know this, but the PREVIOUS time there was "miner consensus" it turned out the miners that "voted" and "supermajority" didn't give the slightest shit about the whole thing, and did NOT actually implement what they were misrepresented as having supported.
mircea_popescu: but whatever, i don't mind making money out of mit's "blockchain of the future", like i didn't mind fleecing "ripple" or cashing btc crash. free bitcoin will continue for as long as usg can draw breath, i'm not against. let them lose what they can't invest.
mircea_popescu: let's drop the math for a moment and delve. at time t0, bitcoin works. at time t1, some wreckers under "public pressure" as discussed well in http://trilema.com/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/ attempt to attack this bitcoin that works, by producing an alt-bitcoin, that does not work. the specific way in which the alt-bitcoin thatr does not work "works" is by deeding (exactly like deedbot) some strings into the bitc
rothbart: as in, the attacker would be doing a chain rewrite in order to keep the segwit outputs on his fork?
rothbart: I've been trying to grok the segwit "theft" incentive - as the bounty grows, so does the PoW defending it - doesn't this keep the segwit outputs safe? ☟︎
asciilifeform: and oh did i mention 3) idiot specialforms (e.g. barrett's) , because if mother dropped you as a child specialform constraints on moduli seem like ok idea
trinque waiting on a turdnode as well
mircea_popescu: Sep 12 14:43:18 * Rothbart is now known as rothbart
mircea_popescu: the important point, however, is that nacre has a young's modulus as high as 100. (young modulus being a reasonable measurement of an aspect of intuitive "brittleness".)
mircea_popescu: in the simplest sense, mother of pearl is discs of calcium carbonate "glass" suspended in chitin (the insect plastic equivalent of celulose ; same thing as makes hair in mammals.)
mircea_popescu: these, amusingly, were also driven by similar processes as the pre-usgification of europe, ie "gotta impress the single solitary unique sultan"
mircea_popescu: if you make your key of ebony or some other high quality wood and the letterface out of say mother of pearl, you have a very good wear profile item as well.
asciilifeform: ( these are not even fully disjoint concepts; there is even such a thing as 'metallic glasses' )
mircea_popescu: as you'd use lead-alum-borax-doped glass
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo he solves it by fucking getting up to speed with 18th century art as an engineering practice!
mircea_popescu: well... the 200lb man it's not as kalahsh-SOUNDING as the 3 lb wrench!
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> man pizza is part. so are various vehicles (such as de-icers) and etc. << AHA
mircea_popescu: man pizza is part. so are various vehicles (such as de-icers) and etc.
asciilifeform: sure as fuck will wear after kilometres of acidic finger-rub.
ben_vulpes: different ~everything; what, make me a strand of wood fiber as thin as spider silk and let's test it