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BingoBoingo: !!rate heysteve -1 Did a thing with words, ended up going the other way

deedbot: BingoBoingo updated rating of dignork from 1 to -1 << found an opportunity to make a useful thing, long missing in action

BingoBoingo: !!rate dignork -1 found an opportunity to make a useful thing, long missing in action

asciilifeform: the 2nd eggog is also a constraint eggog, thrown in bottom of http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YUqze/?raw=true

diana_coman: asciilifeform, certainly not moved during the build; it says 16:34 gmt now so doubt it's a problem

asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'Error detected around a-calend.adb:801:11' >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fCaiF/?raw=true << is there any chance yer clock is off ?

asciilifeform: i didn't even see any mention of 'crypto', other than a 2017 piece where he gripes about uninvited js minerism

mircea_popescu: needless to say... there's a lohohohohooot of these.

mircea_popescu: (for thread completness : dood's a "crypto skeptic" for the simple reason that i told 'em to get in back in 2011, when ro speakers were going through a phase of our-homegoat-just-as-good-as-mp's-mercedes, and so of course they "knew better" then. romanians are dumb enough to get locked into these permamently, just like any other rural morons.)

mircea_popescu: as a smart woman once said, "to have fun you need to organize it". i know, cuz i wrote her.

asciilifeform won't be surprised if 1 day we learn that it only happens if you click on the bottom serif of a lower case 's' or somesuch

asciilifeform won a http://trilema.com/2014/the-all-american-asshole-in-his-own-words-with-my-own-notes/ in trilemalotto today. classic piece, but observe that clicking on the 'internal' footnote linx throws the selector script into same bug as on asciilifeform's site

asciilifeform: asciilifeform's brother worked on 1, in '90 or so. thing powered a hall of 32 glass terminals , occupied ~24/7 by hungry undergrads

asciilifeform: ( or boot sysv unix, if yer a masochist )

diana_coman: at any rate, I think it would make a far better item to send kids to investigate than many "projects"

diana_coman: this eggogology sounds like a candidate euloran skill or something, lol

asciilifeform: in ru there are some decent microscopists ( not the 1 phf went to, but apparently others. ) for instance, very recently found that К1801 ( sovok 'pdp-11' single-chip ) was ~not~ in fact a photoclone of dec's (only the early '80s demo ver was!) but , turns out, entirely indigenous orc design, with coupla x ~fewer~ transistors and yet faster max clock ☟︎☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: ( and think, that was a ~hand-drawn~ chip, with coupla thou. transistor. )

mircea_popescu: ok that's a great one.

asciilifeform: but requires a bit deeper cut than 'i'ma run $snippet and time'

asciilifeform: also did not say that profiling is useless, profiling -- worx, and is a must for anyffin where you actually give a fuck re performance. but what we aint got on pc, is anything like an actual grasp of wtf the thing does and precisely why.

asciilifeform: it aint a z80, thing is finite yes, but coupla MB of state .

asciilifeform: and then you pick up chip made on a tuesday, and it has diff mechanics than what they sold on wednesday of same wk.

mircea_popescu: nevertheless it's a finite phase space. imagine, if we end up having docs intel doesn't.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a stateful box of ??? ( rumour is, not even orig vendor can fully describe the phase space )

asciilifeform: it's a shit arch.

mircea_popescu: end up with converged values and whatever else, put them in a matrix and have a matrix-table.

asciilifeform: they also dun do much good! if i had a wood furnace, i'dve stoked it with'em by nao

asciilifeform actually has the manuals, intel's and amd's, they eat a good bit of shelf

asciilifeform would really instead like a cpu where erry instruction takes 1 tick, fuck errything. but presently dunhave.

asciilifeform: for all i know, not even a computable function, lol

mircea_popescu: not likely a scalar table.

asciilifeform: ( the rub is that ticks depend heavily on context, on a reorderistic cpu )

asciilifeform: i was answering q of 'why does gcc put out this odd form for a computed goto'.

asciilifeform: ( it's make a serious diff inside an inner loop, but here we have it in exception handler, which aint )

mircea_popescu: gimme a break, that first instance ?

a111: Logged on 2019-02-14 21:53 diana_coman: mircea_popescu and anyone else following along, here's the data from a set of runs with handlers from 0 to 3: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9Cstd/?raw=true

asciilifeform: diana_coman does seem to have crafted a testism where it does

asciilifeform: ( recall, we're on a reorderism arch )

asciilifeform: cuz it does a subtract, see

mircea_popescu: one part of the problem might be that sjlj comes from a time before, when insanities like that snippet above were standard. but no time since the millenium do you see it instead of the cmp etc.

asciilifeform: at least where routine appears in a task

asciilifeform: for larger, does a computed jump

asciilifeform: aah lol i'm a tard :

mircea_popescu: one that's due to the method, and the other that's due to the fact zcx was a lot narrowly-er massaged

asciilifeform: i.e. loox like is a flag that triggers an unwind

asciilifeform: cuz it's the 2nd half of a conditional ?

asciilifeform: also loox like the ljmp variant puts abortism stub in erry proc (that appears in a task, that is)

asciilifeform: ( to 0 measurable diff in ffa, oddly enuff, but on e.g. tiny micros might make a diff.. )

mircea_popescu: procs_a vs procs_a

asciilifeform: a: 41 54 push %r12

asciilifeform: 0000000000000000 <procs__a>:

asciilifeform: diana_coman: the 'zcx' tarball contains a 'ljmp_calls' dir, same as other 1. which is correct ?

a111: Logged on 2019-02-11 01:33 hanbot: diana_coman fwiw i ran into a few broken internal links on ossasepia today on account of their still pointing to dianacoman.com, see http://ossasepia.com/2018/03/08/eucrypt-compilation-sheet/ fo' instance.

diana_coman: mircea_popescu and anyone else following along, here's the data from a set of runs with handlers from 0 to 3: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9Cstd/?raw=true ☟︎

mircea_popescu: prolly a bunch of try()catch semantics in "all programs"

diana_coman: I still don't see the boo-boo of docs i.e ~"all programs should see a great improvement running zcx" or how was it

mircea_popescu: a a! so it's 0.9 vs 0.93 ?

asciilifeform nao wonders if there's a seekrit chest fulla ffa speedup in this dig

diana_coman: ugh, either I fat-fingered there or what; let me run that again ; (and possibly /me should really stop getting data *other* than in a nice plain table)

mircea_popescu: diana_coman can we do with 2 and 3 extra handlers as a bonus plox ?

mircea_popescu: specifically stated, this program takes to run : 1 with sjlh, no handlers ; 30 (up 3000%) with zcx, irrespective of handler count ; 5295 (a further 200% up) with sjlj and one extra handler.

mircea_popescu: diana_coman wait wait, so it's in fact a HUGE penalty to use zcx is you have no extra handlers ?

mircea_popescu: a cool. ok, so 22mn takes 1.25 s i'd say it's in the zone, and we're good as such.

diana_coman: the value of X is final value and it changes a bit depending on the seed for MT

asciilifeform: ugh is there a hard max ?!

diana_coman: uhm, I set ulimit -s 900000 ; it shows, confirmed at that with either ulimit -a or ulimit -s; set it from the linker option too; prog still overflows in the end; and if I try MORE than that from ulimit -s I get bash: ulimit: stack size: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted

mircea_popescu: try ulimit -a

asciilifeform: diana_coman: fwiw the noise floor on e.g my test box, is 0.003 (i.e. a proggy with empty main)

diana_coman goes to run it a few times without the serpent

asciilifeform: a aaa.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i cannot resist to ask, is it 'ragassa' and not 'ragazza' ? ( was it a sicilianism or wat )

a111: Logged on 2019-02-14 16:05 asciilifeform: btw , to go with http://trilema.com/2019/so-what-is-the-man-saying , really oughta disasm a zcx variant and longjmp side by side and see what actually changes. ( when diana_coman comes back with working bins, i'ma set this up , for thread-co)

asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you have time, plox post a pair of bins so that i can http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896414 tonight ☝︎

diana_coman: ftr with exception handlers the main trouble is simply that the sjlj overflows the stack very quickly; so far not as much any clear difference in *speed* but certainly a difference in stack space used

a111: Logged on 2019-02-14 07:55 mircea_popescu: diana_coman : btw, here's my current model for the calling timing harness : write three procedures, A B C. have each of these 1. increment a global counter, X ; 2. check if X is over a max value ; 3. if it is not, have each call either one or the other of the other two randomly ; 4. if X is over max value, have them simply return.

diana_coman: re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896383 -> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/o2h67/?raw=true (that's the version including a handler and obv, there are in fact 3 procedures A, B, C, with each calling the other two or one of the other two; MT is the Mersenne Twister Ada implementation I did for the UDP test) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-02-14 07:40 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896320 -> hm, trinque, do you suspect it's really just down to V version? I can easily re-run the thing with a V pressed to same node as yours to rule that out, if that's the case

mircea_popescu: consider the math : i go out to eat, i eat at $100 a plate joint. i go out for a show, or a bender, or a casino trip, or what have you, i come back thousands lighter. meanwhile what's your living space, 100 sqm ? 1000 sqm ? you'll get fucking lost in an acre, really. with modern insulation what's the lossage, a few cents a day ? how THE FUCK will you care so much about the cent as to go cold rather than use electricity, while

phf: i've been looking at getting x11 working for cp101a but not on top of cuntoo. i'm going to take a break and attempt a build myself. i might run into the issue also

mircea_popescu: and once they go away, what will i use ? there's a case for using electricity for heating if MOST of energy produced is electricity. because heating relatively small outlay, all things considered.

asciilifeform: ( and ftr i dun hate winter, either 'bitcoin' or of the ordinary kind, winter is a-ok for so long as you aint stuck in the wind w/out a coat )

mircea_popescu: anyway, re above trends : there's a very visible trend in energy generation away from low quality and towards high quality. this means absolutely a move away from everything and into nuclear. as nuclear increases and fossils drop, the outlook will significantly change -- eg in romania i'd have not even considered heating on any other premise than natgas ; bathroom had eg towel rack consisting of hot water pipes and other such

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896331 << no. i gather you're not seeing this issue on your own machine? vdiff treats links the way diff did, as a completely new file, including the content ☝︎

mircea_popescu: it seems to me premature yet. on my judgement, there was a lot of optimisim at the chump level re obama's bullshit electro-rooves. that will have to blow over, as it was a scam. consumer market will reel a while in disdain-distrust of "such nonsense".

mircea_popescu: no. the original hypothesis was that the same exact item you alf could buy, ie, slightly worse than the best and slightly better than average deployment, will be inserted into eg ceramic tiles, and allow for applications where people don't so much give a fuck.

mircea_popescu: fucking move, if you don't like paying 5 cents for electro-watt and a further 10 cents so mammie mc nigger fatass can afford lube and happy meals every time you burn a watt.

mircea_popescu: yes, it's true most of those for-profit mining ops are located in places with cheaper electricity than yours. HOWEVER, this is not a discussion of ~the miner~ but of expensive government you ~opt to support~.

BingoBoingo: But the issue down here is not "a heatpump", but this one specific size of heatpump that's the only option they know.

BingoBoingo: Now there are a handful of buildings with size appropriate climate control here like the WTC towers, but they are the exceptions

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There are 50s to 70's buildings here like that, but central heat even then is fairly rare. Past few decades climate control doctrine in Uruguay is based around a standard sized air conditioner. An apartment may have 1-3 of these, a house may have a double digit numer of these.

asciilifeform: nobody's found yet a way to make'em with 0 au.

mircea_popescu: yes ; and if they found out a way to do without the au, they'd have taken it out of... both.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827422 << for illustration. sovok eeproms, sumthing like half a ~gram~ of au in ea. ☝︎

asciilifeform: that was a uniquely sovok phenomenon tho -- these folx were so poor that they could not afford konsoomer & mil separate lines

mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a whole selection of current-ish miners available to consumer.

asciilifeform: i can actually picture orcs heating with old miners, if they had the two neurons to rub together and get a boat loaded with'em

mircea_popescu: for as long as there's such a thing as a http://trilema.com/2016/cargo-cults-a-case-study/#selection-91.0-99.80 still left plugged in somewhere, a miner'd make better use of those watts.

asciilifeform: i suspect that 'heat house' aint happening, no matter what level of 'important'. obsolete miners even nao aint worth the cost of transport , floor space, or fan dusting / noise isolation, even to use as heater. whereas 'current' iron is ~unobtainable to commoner on acct of being a strategic good. and can't picture how this would change as 'important' goes up.