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a111: Logged on 2018-09-16 15:41 diana_coman: overall this leaves me with the fact that I'll have to make my own "thin layer" with only what I need, certainly thinner than gnat.sockets + gnat.sockets.thin

mircea_popescu: diana_coman but would the wrapper be c or ada ?

mircea_popescu: "According to POSIX.1-2001, the msg_controllen field of the msghdr structure should be typed as socklen_t, but glibc currently types it as size_t. " and other joys of the c world.

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it would still wrap recv and send at the very least

mircea_popescu: diana_coman would this be written in ada then ?

diana_coman: while initially I considered using this thin layer, on a deeper look at it, I don't like it; here is the code of it: https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/g-socthi__ads.htm and https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/g-socthi__adb.htm

a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 16:48 diana_coman: I certainly have to consider that option too if all that gnat.sockets buys me is some bloat + streams

mircea_popescu: meanwhile in about-as-interesting-as-usg lulz, https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Jeremy_Hambly ☟︎

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ty, fxd

BingoBoingo: diana_coman: fxd, tyvm

a111: Logged on 2018-09-15 01:48 mircea_popescu: esthlos "Though I wouldn't try the thing on files larger than a megabyte at the moment." whynot ?

esthlos: mircea_popescu: just because it will take a while. should work just fine.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 21:25 asciilifeform: diana_coman: found it, http://ossasepia.com/2018/04/17/rfc-euloras-communication-protocol-eucomms/ , aite

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's algo, aha

asciilifeform: i'ma stfu at this point, as i promised to mircea_popescu not to interfere in euloric matters. will answer q strictly re gnatology, if diana_coman runs into any puzzlers.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: found it, http://ossasepia.com/2018/04/17/rfc-euloras-communication-protocol-eucomms/ , aite ☟︎

asciilifeform: diana_coman: asciilifeform forgot that you already had the protocol. then you do not need any of this, indeed.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: if one receives an old (i.e. not currently expected ) packet ( e.g. straggler from a previous round ) it gets rejected in the same way as any other rubbish.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: the simplest way i thought of to finesse the reordering thing is simply to run synchronously ( i.e. at no point does sender send a new packet unless old one replied; if there's no reply, sender retries a certain # of times, and if still silence, declares the connection broken )

a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 17:09 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850418 << yes, none of that.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 16:55 asciilifeform: diana_coman: keep in mind that udp packets can get arbitrarily reordered in flight.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 18:09 phf: asciilifeform: i have a bigendian box and i also tested at least one call for bigendian test on it. i think it was diana_coman's keccak though

phf: asciilifeform: i have a bigendian box and i also tested at least one call for bigendian test on it. i think it was diana_coman's keccak though ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch11_tuning_and_api/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_io.adb#L59 << example of endian-insensitive routine.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the beauty is that there's no actual need to standardize one.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how did erdos put it, 'first you forget to unzip after piss, then to unzip ~before~, and only ~then~ your own theorems'

a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 13:38 asciilifeform has reached the mircea_popescu level of amnesia where 'hmm did i make this and it is on hdd somewhere or did i only want to'

asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu

asciilifeform: diana_coman: keep in mind that udp packets can get arbitrarily reordered in flight. ☟︎

asciilifeform: diana_coman: then you may want to wrap unix recv() as i described ( can use my mmap example )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: currently you're only stuck with streams on acct of gnatsockets peculiar design

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mod6 , ben_vulpes : ordered ! 308.28 orcbux ( 62.18 of'em orc fee, 37.21 -- postage, the rest -- 8 drives and pack of 20 adhesive hedgehogs ) ☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 12:38 diana_coman: re unchecked.conversion - there is still the issue of flipping the bytes though; this needs more thinking

a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 12:37 diana_coman: as I was writing that I was thinking that an unchecked.conversion for the whole thing might work - provided arrays are indeed stored as one would expect in a continuous space

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850327 >> they are, see e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc#L43 example ☝︎

asciilifeform: but nao that i think about it, iirc mircea_popescu maintains currently a mswin eulora client, so you might be stuck with gnat's.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: incidentally, i was initially quite unsure re the wisdom of using the streams. but they are part of the standard and do appear to work as described. however for your application it isn't even clear to me that you need'em , could simply call out to unix's socket routine and get octet array of fixed length (e.g. 512byte) to work on.

asciilifeform: the only lang feature that gets in the way of this partitioning is 'generics', but iirc diana_coman did not use these anywhere ☟︎

asciilifeform: diana_coman: and incidentally ( as you prolly already discovered ) you can keep the restrictive flags, on the subset of the coad that doesn't use tasking. ( and this applies in general )

a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 12:37 mircea_popescu: anyway, reading through this, i suspect ada threading may turn out to be a pleasure.

lobbesbot: phf: Sent 33 minutes ago: <lobbes_phone> next time you're in the btcbase/patches boiler room, plox to add http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/09/logbot_command_router_python-genesis/ to 'bot' section?

phf: diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=smg-comms and http://btcbase.org/patches/smg_comms_genesis (i found the sig in /vpatches/)

phf: diana_coman: hey, the smg.comms genesis sig link is not resolving

asciilifeform has reached the mircea_popescu level of amnesia where 'hmm did i make this and it is on hdd somewhere or did i only want to' ☟︎

asciilifeform: this is not directly relevant to diana_coman's application tho

asciilifeform: diana_coman: re streams, you may find the 'buf_streams' item in horse.tar.gz interesting

diana_coman: asciilifeform, aha; re-reading that thing - I guess the Scalar_Storage_Order looks promising, I'll dig a bit deeper into it

asciilifeform: diana_coman: currently i am lacking a bigendian iron (or a gnat for such) so never got a chance to truly and properly test endianism conversion (as for ffa, it is endian-insensitive, but this is simple where there is no networking)

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i dun see anything obviously ugly in your example, btw

asciilifeform: diana_coman: did you ever see the 'nqb' item asciilifeform posted in '17 ? had various imho good examples of operations on streams

a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 12:31 mircea_popescu: diana_coman entirely possible you're the first one to ever put udp through gnat.sockets.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850323 << i have a proggy, but it dun seem like i ever published the item, so diana_coman will have to count as 1st ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850315 << pretty neat diana_coman ☝︎

mircea_popescu: diana_coman http://ossasepia.com/2018/09/14/smgcomms-implementation-chapter-1/#selection-111.394-111.513 << this'll have to change though, there's no way it can work out like that

mircea_popescu: diana_coman entirely possible you're the first one to ever put udp through gnat.sockets. ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 04:04 mircea_popescu: yes. democracy fails to account externalities as a matter of course. see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783773 thread

trinque: diana_coman: thanks! coming along, squealing in protest though it does.

trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qJ69u/?raw=true << current output of emerge -v @world . few things yet jacked in the portage profile, which sets/unsets things like that userland_GNU use flag.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-12 14:18 asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu reminds me , trinque : here's an idea, let's banish the 'root certs' and any systemwide sslism from cuntoo. if user demands it , let him install locally.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: He had the passably hot wife

a111: Logged on 2014-02-05 01:02 mircea_popescu: pankkake it's fascinating how they completely gloss over the part where one group (the scammers behind it) stole the resources of the rest of the people involved (every idiot that bought some, mined some, or pumped it up until two days ago)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds me of erry (?) kiddo's eventual q, 'why in these fairy tales nobody ever has to take a shit'

mircea_popescu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_J._McMahon << in fairness, father prolly more the relevant figure. different quimby.

mircea_popescu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_McMahon

a111: Logged on 2014-02-14 17:28 mircea_popescu: little girl in last row starts crying her pioneer shirt off

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what is sovok(tm)(r) is not this very duality.

diana_coman: ahahha mircea_popescu that new header pic

asciilifeform: even sumthing like https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.uy/MLU-452816395-mini-usb-portatil-flexible-mini-refrigeracion-ventilador-enf-_JM would suffice

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: see if you can find one similar to https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.uy/MLU-455183149-arctic-breeze-ventilador-de-escritorio-usb-con-cuello-f-_JM but that aint an 'import, takes 9 days'

asciilifeform: meanwhile in today's mircea_popescu-oldies lotto, http://trilema.com/2015/lets-address-some-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal

a111: Logged on 2018-09-13 15:08 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> people of 2064 watching "who wants to be a millionaire", this antique show where people go to be insulted for being so fucking poor. << It'll happen before then. In 1980's and 1990's movies the plot driving stakes are normally in the thousands of dollars.

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> people of 2064 watching "who wants to be a millionaire", this antique show where people go to be insulted for being so fucking poor. << It'll happen before then. In 1980's and 1990's movies the plot driving stakes are normally in the thousands of dollars. ☟︎

asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 : ty. will zero the olds.

mod6: ben_vulpes: All of the previously created vpatches are coming into the manifest at the same time. This simply denotes that it was all created at one time.

mircea_popescu: diana_coman amusingly, the latest "stabilization" or we was 60 years later huh. how much were eggs cca 2004, before the 1:10`000 conversion ? 5k or so, 10k for easter ?

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, thanks!

mircea_popescu: diana_coman welcome back to online for your blog btw!

a111: Logged on 2018-09-12 00:08 mircea_popescu: and in other "the web has failed, utterly" lulz : trilema's "Links from an external page (other web sites except search engines)" managed for the first time in history an epic 0.0% this month.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-12 15:34 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 : plz say when ok to zero the retired drives ( dun have to be immediate, but it takes a day or so and would like to get'em mailed to my vivisection table )

mod6: (the first line has a place holder in there for the block height when I get to actually making another excise_hash_truncation vpatch)

mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qSPwN/?raw=true << draft of the manifest.txt for TRB. mircea_popescu asciilifeform ben_vulpes trinque et. al. plz to review and let me know if any thing needs changing.

mod6: TMSR~ : Update on the Pizarro report for August. I have completed the Liabilities table after some discussion with ben_vulpes, and it is currently in a final-draft form. Upon approval of this draft, we will post it to the pizarroisp.net site.

mod6: mircea_popescu: Sounds great!

a111: Logged on 2018-09-12 21:37 mircea_popescu: going back to that whole "pipe is all of bash" discussion.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: verily.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: definitely, once we have the new disks ( i dun expect you'll want the sad samsung )

a111: Logged on 2018-09-08 17:43 mircea_popescu: in today's wonderment, why the FUCK is it i can say sed 's%x%y%g' or sed 's^p^q^g' but can NOT say awk '%a%,%b%' ?!

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty sure errybody who ever touched it, knows

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didjaknow, they also have a navy. ( consists of, iirc, 3 old tubs )

a111: Logged on 2018-09-12 19:57 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-12#1850026 << rather's the q, who the fuck thinks anyone gives a shit about "highly polished". weren't here for the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834802 discussion or something ?

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nowadays to get those UN Peacekeeping bucks. Before that to fight commie scum.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-12 00:21 mircea_popescu: for all the derpage about "attack sites using your computer to mine shitcoins" in the usg.fakenews media, google's been using well over half of everyone's cpu an' ram for the past i dunno, decade ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that ssd makers dun particularly want folx using cheap stix in place of golden toilet 'adult' ssd.

asciilifeform: re sd card -- mircea_popescu may find it interesting that asciilifeform's initial (week before flight) rk test bed used a premium 'camera' 128G sd to boot ~and~ run from. but found that it is intolerably slow, the things have pretty sad randomaccess performance

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where, in the rx100 ?

a111: Logged on 2018-04-19 01:58 mircea_popescu: in unrelated news : i can't recommend the dsc-rx100 quite warmly enough. it's a splendid sony compact with zeiss lenses that's easily the best camera i ever saw.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 100% possib, could be firmware 'planned obsolescence' booby.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: erry schism ever worx ~same, neh

asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 : plz say when ok to zero the retired drives ( dun have to be immediate, but it takes a day or so and would like to get'em mailed to my vivisection table ) ☟︎☟︎