log☇︎
14500+ entries in 0.109s
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is solvable , with properly oversized panel.
phf: ave1: i missed your zfp_4 but added http://btcbase.org/patches/zfp_4_assert
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: airtank as ballast already classic, in ordinary torpedo.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: valves ?
asciilifeform: for the sake of gedankenexperiment : mircea_popescu how would you keep the air intake out of water in a 'surface torpedo' ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i.e. ~torpedo ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even for robotic ship, i suspect electric wins, with e.g. pv panels can have ~unlimited endurance, and quiet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the 'battery for flying 10kg to buenos aires' thread btw
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the columbian folx are at the forefront, as i understand, of this tech.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: further below in l0gz, is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851662 ☝︎
asciilifeform: loox like mircea_popescu's old observation 'they wanna tax, not prohibit commerce' was optimistic tho. the orcs ~want~ to die
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i admit i was surprised to have been able to mail ~anyffing~ there, knew there gotta be a catch
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm quite looking forward to learning the answer to 'how big packet'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd be entirely satisfied if it were a separate util, that came 'with' vtron, also.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 13:14 asciilifeform: diana_coman: the way i'd do the size shuffle, is to use a kindergarten prng (e.g. mersenne) for repeatable sequence, and put ~in~ the packets, a serial num. then simply record what comes out.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean "make new ones" ? http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks << to replace "- D49E7AAAB38507FD69E6629B8BAAE80BC87D2071C842C8EDE6F2D8E54F87E7D439C79B9A38AD94591E6FD5CF96196F2221426A4C8A2FFB282030FBCF810C18FB
phf: mircea_popescu: i have a set of tools like that on top of vpatch/vdiff, but they are entirely expressable as a 5-10 line shell scripts, and their variety is multitude "convert this sha set to keccak set" "see if these two sets press to same" "press all the intermediate states into separate folders" etc. etc. but i think what he's trying to get is a tool that will say "these keccaks are same as these shas so you don't have to reread"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right, purge, but 1st gotta make new ones, that are known to contain same material
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: correct.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i long ago gave up trying to maintain 'the one and only vtron' lol
asciilifeform: a new operator ( no , i dun think we've seen the last of new sane folx, tho mircea_popescu may disagree ) oughta be in possession of the complete kit when he sets up his vtron.
asciilifeform: phf: no, per hash invocation. but loox like mircea_popescu dun like this method, would rather have the trees reground sooner than later.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no new state machine needed
phf: mircea_popescu: no i think he's saying "try to hash in both formats and then make a guess if one of the formats succeed"
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 16:22 mircea_popescu: think of the whole opposability angle, will you. 1. alf : "your summaries suck" 2. bimbo "master, is this true ?" now i'm stuck. i'm not going to do a 3.b. "yes, because i like him" and i can't do a 3.a. "yes, because ~SOMETHING~" as the something's an undefined symbol.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: expand re why dun like 'new extension', e.g. '.v'
asciilifeform: unless diana_coman or mod6 remembers
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 15:32 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851642 << btw mod6 , diana_coman , one possible cut of the knot would be if new vtron were to have algo where it tries keccak 1st, then if fails, tries sha512 and ~loudly warns~ ( can be off by default , and enabled on cmdline )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 1 other pill i was able to think of , was http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851674 , but i dun expect you'll find it much better ☝︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right now asciilifeform , diana_coman , errybody, has buncha vdiff laying around, not only on www but on own disks, and serious problem if gotta stab at it by hand erry time to see which it is. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-03-25 19:40 mircea_popescu: follow the mainline. whole fucking point is to move vpatching to keccak mechanism. don't genesis on the old style why would you.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-08 00:05 mircea_popescu: keccak came out of that. it's all in the logs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: canhaz link to 'hey folx, phf's vtron out of beta, let's regrind trb etc nao' ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 12:34 asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is how we typically do standardizations, yes
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Right, which means the next task is finding someone in DHL who can understand that. That I am a BUSINESS, man.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not yet. Encountered another level of mud hut retardation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i also suspect that this is why it requires at least 2 people. sorta how sniper worx 9000x better in pair with spotter.
nicoleci: diana_coman: i think its what hanbot calls the bathroom :)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that the 'blinders' are to some extent an immutable cost of the process, required for the directed thrust at $problem. sorta how knife is only sharp on 1 , at most 2 edges
nicoleci: mircea_popescu: ahh i see.
asciilifeform: rright and at one time surgeons spread peripueral fever erry day. but mircea_popescu for some reason does not say 'there never were surgeons, never quite got there'
nicoleci: mircea_popescu: no idea
asciilifeform: but it'd be extra lulzy if mircea_popescu had given nicoleci that one
nicoleci: diana_coman: lol!
nicoleci: mircea_popescu: sure i will do so, thats a good suggestion.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'd say this formulation describes bureaucrat, not engineer, but yes i am aware that they've recently hybridized into a strange mule species, bureau-engineer
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, yes, it's not exactly a rare thing unfortunately
a111: Logged on 2014-04-25 20:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.stalingrad-battle.ru/images/stories/ris42.jpg
mircea_popescu: diana_coman right you are indeed. i take it you're also familiar ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've toiled in cages where even gsm barely penetrated, not even speaking of cables, so i can picture.
diana_coman: <mircea_popescu> this seems even perfectly reasonable, who wouldn't want to be right, until you understand the undertone. which eminently was "and perfectly willing to put on the adequate blinders for this effect" -> imo that is better expressed as "only interested in not being wrong" - quite different from being interested in being right
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ah
deedbot: asciilifeform rated nicoleci 1 << mircea_popescu's pupil; log summaries
asciilifeform: !!rate nicoleci 1 mircea_popescu's pupil; log summaries
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 16:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: expand re the engineers point
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> asciilifeform in the girl's own words, "only interested in their being right". -> is this re her summaries being right or what?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, well, how does she evaluate if they are right?
mircea_popescu: but yes, on spotcheck she could produce long form of ftp and deduce long form for isp out of "- mircea_popescu suspects that iptables is like php implementation of ftp - most people do not have their own isp"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: expand re the engineers point ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a great experiment, and imho entirely possible that the horse will eventually learn to sing.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: asciilifeform reads things he dun fully understand, all day, erry day, i dun disagree.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman and necessarily derive no benefit from it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun disagree.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'ma leave it there, after all the chix is yer student, not mine
a111: Logged on 2018-08-28 16:51 mircea_popescu: also, a) gotta start somewhere ; b) she's not working to impress you, she's working to impress me, meaning your only productive stance is "not like that, like ~this~" rather than "your work doesn't make the cut".
asciilifeform: mod6: i dun like to discourage folx, esp. mircea_popescu's pupil, who is evidently pouring sweat into the job. but i expected the items would get better with time, and imho so far they haven't ☟︎
asciilifeform: oh hey, guten morgen, mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851642 << btw mod6 , diana_coman , one possible cut of the knot would be if new vtron were to have algo where it tries keccak 1st, then if fails, tries sha512 and ~loudly warns~ ( can be off by default , and enabled on cmdline ) ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i like the new v format, but i also very strongly wish to avoid coming to resemble the urbit people, with their 'aah we restarted the universe for the 7th time' ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 16:42 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mod6 , ben_vulpes : ordered ! 308.28 orcbux ( 62.18 of'em orc fee, 37.21 -- postage, the rest -- 8 drives and pack of 20 adhesive hedgehogs )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: entirely fair point. i simply dun have the new one in my workflow yet, is all
asciilifeform: i dun even disagree with mircea_popescu's 'if it's still alive, it oughta be reground' item. but at the very least oughta be able to read the old trees with new tool and determine that somebody's regrind is actually bit-identical to the original, without burning several days per instance
asciilifeform: will also be interesting if results are found to differ when one end is in mircea_popescustan, etc
diana_coman: anyways, will wait for mircea_popescu to weigh in on this too; atm I still need to set up the main stuff and then those are params to adjust/set as required
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the way i'd do the size shuffle, is to use a kindergarten prng (e.g. mersenne) for repeatable sequence, and put ~in~ the packets, a serial num. then simply record what comes out. ☟︎
asciilifeform: diana_coman: how did you make the receiver eat unexpected sizes ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 16:02 asciilifeform: the only lang feature that gets in the way of this partitioning is 'generics', but iirc diana_coman did not use these anywhere
asciilifeform: diana_coman: there's a caveat tho
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the 1 thing that still bothers me is that same file extension was kept for new v as for old
asciilifeform: diana_coman: what's going on is that asciilifeform has buncha boxen with old tooling, and also tends to rely on mircea_popescu to proclaim 'let's nao new format'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm satisfied that your keccak worx
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm not averse to regrinding , if diana_coman already switched ( i managed to sleep through this , somehow, but yes looks like you're in the new format )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is how we typically do standardizations, yes ☟︎
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I don't get it: are you saying you need mircea_popescu to officially declare it something or the other or what?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: but to answer the orig q -- i have nuffin against the new format; but not switched yet.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: and if there was a moment in the l0gz where mircea_popescu proclaimed 'hey this is out of beta, errybody plox to retire the classical vtrons' -- i missed it? plox to link.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: believe or not, i still havent switched to phf's .
a111: Logged on 2018-09-01 17:06 mircea_popescu: i figure... you get what 2 ? 3 ? months there until the first save point, see if it can be done or can't be done ?
a111: Logged on 2014-03-20 14:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'cum se suge pula' << can't help but associate this in my head with the finnish proverb, 'Pillu se on pulullakin'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the heathens make a pretense that 'dun have to, automerge' etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: subj was specifically the cases where regrind.
asciilifeform: iirc most recently diana_coman's
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right, i dunlikeit
asciilifeform: i have nfi how, but it all evaporated. and mircea_popescu's hypothesis as as good as any.
asciilifeform: it's 100% of how asciilifeform used it before encountering mircea_popescu , yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, the proggy for which i originally wrote the thing , was one
asciilifeform: diana_coman ^
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, i assumed was typo from 'wraiths'
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851125 << incidentally, we very much want to do this. diana_coman mind setting up a large testing harness, send a soup of all packets lengths from 1 to 65536 bytes each hour back and forth for a week or two ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 16:06 diana_coman: anyways, rounding up, it seems my next step here is to 1. set up the testing harness http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-9-18#431515 2. put asciilifeform's lib to use in smg.comms