log☇︎
134500+ entries in 0.081s
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 02:52 asciilifeform: to round out the crackpottery : i've described what is more or less a working variant of ye olde warcrime, the multiverse coin
a111: Logged on 2017-12-14 19:42 mircea_popescu: phf are you amenable to re-writing diff btw ? http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-06#1747792 is going to happen later this year, and v-immutability is a pita.
mircea_popescu: but yes, this comes with the necessity of considering eg http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-14#1751602 as "a coin has been minted" ; i don't see http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1753931 as anything other than an abstract rendering of the exact practical reality ☝︎☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes look into teh whole medieval history. two salient points : a) "honor", especially "why would it be said that the enchroaching of king into chivalry through pretense of fons honorum actually destroyed it" ; b) tenement, especially in the sense of subinfeudation.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754013 << 11753, well that's enough for tonight ☝︎☟︎
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-21#1557667 << thread ☝︎
ben_vulpes: although perhaps that is the only thing that will eventually differentiate the trilema fiatists products
ben_vulpes: ohey have we finally arrived at the solution of each laird maintaining their own premined coin?
asciilifeform bbl, but suspects that we'll meet this thread again.
asciilifeform pictures, suppose somebody were to try an' 'veblenize' cesium fountain
asciilifeform pretty close to where more often than not thinks 'hm, rubidium or save pennies and cesium'
asciilifeform: ( presupposing yer doing precision, vs accuracy-to-inca, the latter circularly presupposes inca broadcast as only winner )
asciilifeform: dunno, rubidium clock costs nomoar than a typical comp
mircea_popescu: for a while it was church tower, same inca principle.
mircea_popescu: broadcast nevertheless is the ~only economical way to clock.
asciilifeform: more often because it loses to 'atomic' clock, which seems to derps to be much cheaper than it is because inca broadcast
mircea_popescu: i suspect quartz hating is because obsoleting the last remnant of pre-socialism tech, the mechanical movement.
asciilifeform: compared to, say, naive self-feedbacking inverter clock, or r-c clock.
mircea_popescu: no argument. they are.
asciilifeform: folx spit on quartz resonators, but they're a quite remarkable thing.
asciilifeform: in the time it took you to write this, yer fg clock beat out 28^20 time units.
mircea_popescu: women ~generally make children, but that's only 3e12 cells or so.
mircea_popescu: consider, making a clock that works equally well over 1e20 time units,
mircea_popescu: now, the accomplishment here is that it tied a theoretical model to future development in reality.
mircea_popescu: machinery that behaves as intended over a large range of inputs impresses me. this isn't mandatory for anyone.
asciilifeform: if all you want is range, can say that a glass bottle as easily holds 1 molecule of water, as....
mircea_popescu: it redirected me to oh i see what happened
mircea_popescu: anyway. so the range is approx 1e8
mircea_popescu: fucktards. dja realise that link is dead ?
asciilifeform: dc to 250mhz approx
asciilifeform: dunno re intel's turd, but plenty of static (i.e. clocks from dc to max) on embedded market.
mircea_popescu: cpu transistor count is what, 1e10 ?
asciilifeform: worx same from 1hz to 1e9.
mircea_popescu: name item, man-made or natural, that presents this property.
asciilifeform: by that token evenmoaf
asciilifeform: i can picture that it'd impress folx who experienced 'typical' technology being webolade, ducttape, perl. the way austrian bidet impressed asciilifeform's grandfather.
mircea_popescu: it was not obvious to me.
mircea_popescu: you do not encounter a phenomena where you go from 1 to 1e20 smoothly.
asciilifeform: it was obvious that it'd work, in this sense, on day1
mircea_popescu: the point is that it worked.
asciilifeform: how could they move ? it's a pretty hard thermostat
mircea_popescu: not even seen in nature, such things.
mircea_popescu: the fact that blocktimes today are SO DAMNED CLOSE to the range intended 8 years ago in spite of diff going up 1e20 is unmatched.
mircea_popescu: nevermind that.
asciilifeform: scaled all the way into becoming a chinese national property.
mircea_popescu: it scaled remarkably well, much better than expected really ; and much better than expectable. this exceedingly close coupling between model and reality isn't, to my knowledge, seen before in human industry.
asciilifeform: the asic-building tourney is intrinsically cartelizing.
mircea_popescu: i clearly remember gushing in the log many years ago, but can't seem to find. anyway : difficulty worked.
mircea_popescu: i don't mean here what rando-idiot thinks those are. i mean the actual article,
asciilifeform: they haven't tho.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform up to a point. if they came up with say riemann falsification , you'd care.
asciilifeform: perfectly happy to replace pow with my wot.
asciilifeform: i duncare what obummer and gavin have to say re the worldstate,
mircea_popescu: in all factuality we wouldn't have wot were there not pow.
asciilifeform: and currently i'm of the mind that pow is an idiot substitute for wot.
mircea_popescu: maybe "any" is too strong. but if one can take decision based on it, there's the evident problem
asciilifeform: pow where having found the prev champ is of ~any~ advantage, is ipso facto retarded tho.
mircea_popescu: doesn't have to be complete being the only grace.
mircea_popescu: but it'd seem that in point of fact what is needed is a reliable description of all factual existence.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 23:33 asciilifeform: after 5yr of thinking about it daily, asciilifeform still has nfi what even ought to be asked of a pow !!
mircea_popescu: this is entirely new field, in fact, as http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753861 etc : we don't even really understand what worldfunction si supposed to be. ☝︎
asciilifeform: and yes mircea_popescu this item is an attempt at the unified theory, rather than proposal for concrete cointron.
asciilifeform: the ants, their own, cockroaches, their own, men -- their own.
mircea_popescu: indeed. no reason to.
asciilifeform: notice that item in this thread makes no reference to how-hashed or other technominutiae .
mircea_popescu: (in the discussion re http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/ the item involved is a more elaborate... world function.)
asciilifeform: i gave an example scalar, 'coins moved but over 1 block delta'. it is by no means the only possible.
mircea_popescu: but i suspect as implemented it is blind peculiarization of more general concept that needs unearthing.
mircea_popescu: anyway, one approach might be to a) create a scalar worldfunction and b) force reference to the discrete value of it. which is what pow ineptly tries to do.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but this just makes us a larger mp, you understand ? girl going "hail master, i am yours to command" does not resolve the problem.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 02:51 phf: first pass line reduction of diffutils, from 300407 to 50312
trinque: yep, my reaction has been to invest in node-deployment tooling, more nodes, idiot IP blocking and all that
asciilifeform: *clear to
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't cleat to me that wot isn't the troo solution to time. e.g. 'i'ma follow the multiverse mircea_popescu picks, and fuck everyone'
mircea_popescu: this sad is dissected in logs last someone mentioned this. which might've been me, last year ish
mircea_popescu: the sad fact of bitcoin relay network is that it actually forces people who aren't to nevertheless act like idiots.
mircea_popescu: trinque the only known pill is keeping large pile of secretly connected nodes, measuring who mothballs you and why, sending assassins over,
trinque: this along with the transparently obvious sybil logs I posted the other day
trinque: I'm simply unable to transmit transactions at times; they show up in no other mempool.
mircea_popescu: no it's not a solution. it reduces to "bring your own missing parts of this bitcoin"
mircea_popescu: to the problem of time ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in which vein : nothing wrong in principle with the idea (of all-coins-given-at-t0) but you will have to solve the problem of time.
asciilifeform trying very different tack re 'trbi' than in prev thread, instead of massive warcrime , series of small gedankenexperiment.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 04:09 trinque: obviously I'm looking into it, but I would like to hear what other people are seeing on their trb nodes.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1753954 << i have up to date nodes ; both trb and legacy. but the phenomena described is recurrent since at least 18 months ago. ☝︎
asciilifeform: q is more re fundamentals. suppose you had another, yet-unspecified means to distributecoin.
mircea_popescu: this alt-granpa pistol is no replacement for the actual item
mircea_popescu: that's the iffy thing about blocks. not so much the "work", but the metronome.
mircea_popescu: the problem with "no time", see ? it's that now... no time!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform somethinglike that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your picture seems to be a variant of the 'isolated node' argument. except nao with the sides reversed
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 03:37 phf: trick question, why do you need a signal handler in a differ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 02:51 phf: first pass line reduction of diffutils, from 300407 to 50312
mircea_popescu: by the time you ask "why would anyone choose the wrong color bits" you've moved from protocol to promise.
mircea_popescu: this question means the scheme's dead.
asciilifeform: when baking tx
asciilifeform: why would anyone build on their alt-world tho
mircea_popescu: so if at t0 the chain is C, and at t1 large owners decide they don't like C and retroactively create C' ?
asciilifeform: in the proposed algo -- the block, from all the alternatives you have, with greatest summed coinmovement
mircea_popescu: yes. but when you encounter two different chains, how do you choose one ?