log☇︎
13300+ entries in 0.086s
diana_coman: fwiw I start with the algebra and only then, if I need to, I will refer to - better yet, make my own - diagrams; in this case my note was simply a reminder "diagrams there do not match internals + shift_left/right convention here so do own/flip/ignore"
diana_coman: asciilifeform: there was nowhere not even for 1 sec any idea of "oh noez, redo drawings", just in case it's not clear; the start is still the algebra anyway and that's the correct way of thinking about it to my mind, not any convention left or right (and in this sense, if anything, I'd rather change the shift_left/shift_right for all their being ancient and all that).
asciilifeform: possibly there's a deeper 'meta' point in this thread, i.e. that the final stage of fitting a mechanism in-head, is when you rewrite it with own hands, in the notation of ~your~ choice, so that the orig author's arbitrary conventions (and it is impossible to write anyffin nontrivial w/out ~some~ personal convention) dun rub the skin off yer feet.
asciilifeform: this is really about all i have to say on the subj.
asciilifeform: folx who do not like that the e.g. ch10 electrical diagram goes left-right , can a) draw own b) look strictly at the algebra , as asciilifeform did when wrote it to begin with , i do not have a year to spend on redrawing'em mirrored.
asciilifeform: ( i'll add : imho, an 'ffa graduate' oughta be able to write own correct arithmetron in his asm of choice, in coupla weeks , if feels like it. ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: folx who dun like that ada asks you to write arrays low ... high , can make own lang and write arithmetron for selves in it, it is not a priority for asciilifeform and i dun see an argument for making it one.
mod6: However, if it changes, I'll just re-arrange it in my mind.
mod6: Well, fwiw, I'm trying to not load in any Cisms or other pantsuit liquidshit into my understanding of FFA. So when reading it, I'm trying to approach it somewhat like a babe. And I thought that I had it at least, mentally fitting in my head the way it is today.
asciilifeform: i'll add, however, that ffa does not use byte-addressing or bit-addressing, if you were to build a machine where either is in whatever direction, and write a (standard-compliant) ada for it, ffa will work same way.
mod6: I totally see her point.
mod6: I try to keep it in my mind that this is an ~array~ of words. And in my head, arrays grow left to right. Or bottom up. ☟︎
asciilifeform: i gotta admit tho, that the 'oh noez, array isn't drawn with the junior bits at the right' thing never bothered me.
mod6: So, I guess I thought I had all of it making sense in my mind. But tell me if I'm wrong! Then I'll have to re-read that first chapter again with my misunderstandings corrected.
mod6: So if what I had previously believed above is true, and it would seem to considering my understanding of FZ_Add for instance, then "most junior bits on the left" makes sense to me, but "FZ_Get_Head" seems perhaps a bit confusing. Although, when I typically "getHead()" or "getTail()" I expect to get the 0-ith index, or the nth, respectively.
mod6: Ok, so maybe you can help me out here. I always looked at an FZ as an array of Words, or a Stack if one prefers to look at it this way. Where, if I'm going to make an FZ number '4', it would be set in the array like (i'll use 4 bits per word to save space):
mod6: And before I comment a whole bunch further, her notes make me rethink what I had thought I had known about. So I'll try to grab some time soon and load these things back into my head.
mod6: alright, I've read the article, so I see what you're referring to now.
mod6: Ah, ok then cool. I'll report back once I read it. cheers!
mod6: lol, sorry, I was just trying to update quick and go. lemme dig into what you're really asking me here.
mod6: You want me to screen shot it so you can see what I'm seeing?
mod6: I'll be sure to point out anything in chapters that makes me feel like I'm doing disproportionate mental-gymnastics for sure.
mod6: Thanks, so yeah, her post is in my queue to read. But I have seen the above diagram before ^, and it looked "ok" to me, but I haven't read that far ahead yet.
asciilifeform: i'm talking about the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909025 item ☝︎
asciilifeform: i'ma add this to the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908374 file, btw : if there existed actual programmatic diagram tool, who wants mirrored could simply push button an' flip. ( as it is, thing is 100% laboriously -- as in months of fiddling -- hand-drawn ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( so far no one else mentioned it in the log, but i have nfi whether because wasn't headache-inducing, or no one read far enuff in other than diana_coman )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 20:20 asciilifeform: mod6 ^ + other ffa-eating folx, i suspect will find diana_coman's piece quite handy
trinque: http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ << I have updated deedbot's rolls to reflect. Congrats to bvt and Mocky ! ☟︎
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, i looked through my paper notes and found that often enuff i draw registers in both directions, depending on what was convenient to fit other things on the pg.
diana_coman: I meant: I think the ideal is role rather than direction; sigh.
diana_coman: re flipping them in one's head: I'm sure it comes with practice but I'm not yet there; and yes, it's more of my shortcoming that I keep tripping on this but atm this is how it is; generally speaking I don't think the ideal is to think in terms of role rather than (any) direction but there are the (historical as you noted) left/right shift/rotate which inevitably still bring direction in for me.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: Dia; if you want them, I can upload the .dia files too
asciilifeform: it is entirely possible tho , to grasp the material w/out them ( diana_coman apparently did -- or used a mirror ? i do not know )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 20:28 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm still stumped re where it was that i had 'most junior bits on the left' tho
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908845 -> mostly in the posts/explanations; hence my "I do not use " - as I go through it, I keep to "most junior on the right" to avoid tripping over, that's all. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 22:45 asciilifeform: i suspect that proprietor of 'gowin' et al is not thinking 'how do i vanquish the reich' but instead 'how do i chisel enuff revenue away from xilinx to build palace in miami for my 4 sons'. and i betcha already built.
mp_en_viaje: "oh but mp, that wouldn't be fair!!!". quite. who the fuck ever played fair and wasn't a complete and utter moron ? women play fair, and women only. but they're biologically constrained to this, they ony do it because they're trying to get pregnant. i'm not trying to get pregnant.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 22:40 asciilifeform: i suppose could even argue that the chinese chip folx suffer from a variant of this -- they drank enuff usg.coolaid to begin to think that they, too, could 'make money from intellectualproperty(tm) just like miami'
mp_en_viaje: in any case ima fucking solve the chinese question as soon as i get my hands on them.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 22:26 asciilifeform: i.e. why would they want to turn golden toilet into sub-cent margin 'commoditized m3 screw'
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: at this pt i'm not even convinced that there ~is~, or could be, a 'chinese strategy', or 'they want..' -- these folx have not developed a with-what to want , whole edifice reduces to individual party-appointed directors' desire for miami ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: i.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, as stated, question is unanswerable. the best i can do for you towards fixing it is working by simile. consider the case of british or french in zululand : had they opted to re-implement troglodyte matriarchy "with some fixes", the result would have been present day ourdemocracy three centuries prior.
asciilifeform: i suspect that proprietor of 'gowin' et al is not thinking 'how do i vanquish the reich' but instead 'how do i chisel enuff revenue away from xilinx to build palace in miami for my 4 sons'. and i betcha already built. ☟︎
asciilifeform: i suppose could even argue that the chinese chip folx suffer from a variant of this -- they drank enuff usg.coolaid to begin to think that they, too, could 'make money from intellectualproperty(tm) just like miami' ☟︎
asciilifeform: but in both cases similar, 'i'ma find this technicality in the Official Rulz that will Surely Work' etc
asciilifeform: i.e. why would they want to turn golden toilet into sub-cent margin 'commoditized m3 screw' ☟︎
BingoBoingo: In New World Wonders I present "The Catherdral of Artigas" (sparsley populated territory in the Northern Corner bordering Brasil) http://archive.is/wmjIU
mp_en_viaje: entire fucking country has nothing but tiny dick condoms, i'm like, bitch, where the fuck do you keep the large ones, they're like what large ones.
mp_en_viaje: it's almost like their version of mating. "i enjoy sticking it into the missus precisely because i have no fucking idea how i got here nor any confidence i could repeat it ever"
mp_en_viaje: they seem to get some very weird to not say patently insane satisfaction out of "making i twork"
asciilifeform: oh i have seen
mp_en_viaje: i dunno, a goose laid it on me.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I assume that's what "more beautiful" means
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: knowing 0 aside from the product , i would say it is not correct to put wolf in the company of koch -- wolf actually did sumthing nontrivial and useful ( mapped out the ice40 matrix )
asciilifeform: ( the '18 one , i have, and worx for low-frequency applications like e.g. 'fg 2' , but that's pretty much it )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 6mo old page. i think he already bent.
asciilifeform: i have nfi either way. ( in fact had nfi that he ~had~ a piggy )
mp_en_viaje: oh i see, this is one of those "if mp gives some money then we'll pretend microsoft gave us money, and if not, whatever, '''do something else'''"
asciilifeform: i use'em the way folx on submarine use their pics of trees an' birds etc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i take the pics mostly for self, to occasionally look at and remember that there ~is~ an outside ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: not that i don't have a guess.
mp_en_viaje: "I should just burn it all down and start something completely fresh. I always thought CFD combustion models are super fascinating. Maybe I'll do that next. Or maybe I'll just drop off the grid, get a regular job, and write EDA software just for me and nobody else. Fuck FOSS EDA. " << i wonder what happened there.
asciilifeform: and pics are great, i suspect most of these 'everythings' i will only see if mp_en_viaje finds time to make a pic of'em.
mp_en_viaje: i suppose ima have to post the "bring me one of everything" pics huh.
asciilifeform: erry time i try an' connect via somewhere-interesting it seems to add a digit to price
asciilifeform: diana_coman: re 'Natural' type -- this is one of asciilifeform's persistent headaches -- the lang forces certain things to be indexed by 'Natural', and i optimized for minimal # of casts ( i fucking hate casts, and imho the fact that one cannot write a proggy ENTIRELY without'em, is a language bug )
mp_en_viaje: i mean here, the chicks are a pleasure. cosmetics store clerks are like, running more of a club in the g0d damned store than the average costa rican strip club
mp_en_viaje: lol nah, i think i walked 20 miles today
asciilifeform: i settled it in favour of having preconds etc. on the ~user-operable~ api ( as pictured in ch11. )
asciilifeform: there's an engineering tension b/w 'maximally consistent' and 'performs reasonably on pc' , which i resolved mostly but not entirely in favour of the former
asciilifeform: tho i do suspect that i did introduce certain knobs before there was strictly a need to do so, solely on acct of imperfect plan ( recall, most of the proggy through ch10 or so, pre-existed the start of the human-readable series )
asciilifeform: http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/#selection-161.412-161.519 << measurable penalty. which is why the 'range-independent' thing is in some ops but not others. i headached over this extensively when 1st wrote.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm still stumped re where it was that i had 'most junior bits on the left' tho ☟︎
asciilifeform: diana_coman: re the stylistic nitpicks : there'll defo be a tail-end ch where various items get moar descriptive names. and i agree with diana_coman's pt re e.g. 'Get_Head'
asciilifeform: mod6 ^ + other ffa-eating folx, i suspect will find diana_coman's piece quite handy ☟︎
bvt: i see; if vendor can subvert the chip in nonobvious way by changing delays organizing a military style приемка would be the only option for actually using the devices
asciilifeform: i.e. yer still stuck with their closed shitware, and with closed 'ip cores' (libraries) from them if you want sdram, ethernet, etc.
bvt: i get the propagation delay physics; i guess the question is how much is lost due to suboptimal design tools, vs max capability of hardware
bvt: i have to admit i have zero experience with these tools
bvt: the larger fpga - seems to be it https://symbiflow.github.io/prjtrellis-db/ ? last time i checked it was work in progress
asciilifeform: ( ~why~ went nowhere -- i do not presently know; it may be simply from lack of time , ~or~ could easily be because he does not in fact have the relevant gate-delay numbers . the published docs suggest the latter as possibility )
asciilifeform: bvt: i'm satisfied that wolf properly described the low-level fabric of the 8k model. but the synthesis engine is pretty barbaric.
bvt: asciilifeform: isn't ice40 a done thing, i.e. is there anything else to add to it?
asciilifeform: aand last update on the ice40 page seems to be 30 jan '18. so nuffin happened there since i 1st found it. ( there was, at one point, e.g. talk of support for the larger lattice co. chips )
asciilifeform: re wolf, i admit to being surprised that he found any kinda moneys at all
asciilifeform: from, near as i can tell, starvation.
asciilifeform: i.e. the # of ~working~ transistors you can reliably fit on 1 die, flattened out some time even before what is ordinary thought of as 'death of moore's law'
a111: Logged on 2019-04-10 17:24 asciilifeform: ( i suspect mp_en_viaje knew this already, but even intel et al, 'cheat', when you buy a pentium-whatever with 'n cores', it really has 24 or whatnot, and only n working units , the others lasered out )
phf: hmm, perhaps it can read links and do xref across several channels, only reason i can think of to make it multichannel capable.
phf: also re pizarro, i can, but it'll take me a bit of time, it doesn't have multi channel capability, but then i'm also not sure if i want to make it explicitly multi channel. i might just spin up a second instance instead
mp_en_viaje: trinque, i suppose one possible approach, in desperation of anythingelse, would be the brit's "nuclear security" protocol of checking for bbc keks.
trinque: much as I'd like to put all the blame on fleanode, I'd like it if the bot handled this stuck state a bit better. it's still on my todo list to address.
mod6: 'tis all I've got for the moment. Will holler if I've got any Q's or comments. o7
mod6: asciilifeform: You may be correct. trinque and I were discussing it, there may have been others. Just wanted the republic to know that I didn't vaporize, nor forget.
mod6: This month has been insane-level busy for me, but I'll try to get my head around it by month-end so I can speak to the topic intelligently.
asciilifeform: neato mod6 . possibly i misaddressed the q , and it was someone else who was working on this, i gotta look again in the log
mod6: There are probably others in the Republic more versed in these things, but I'll still try to learn more about it this month regardless.
mod6: I did a very shallow dive on what "bridging" is about, conceptually about a week ago. Since I'm way out of my depth on this one, I haven't reached out to anyone on Undernet yet, just because when I do, I would like to have some idea of what I'm talking about.
mod6: I did recently stand up an ircd-ratbox (last month), but I was not thinking about it with any sense.