log☇︎
119400+ entries in 0.077s
trinque: the thing's so steeped in "the way things are" I daren't comment further
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779651 << the correct statement would be, "you have experiences in good faith and i have imaginations in good faith, that i don't bother to check nor do i ever sit down to reason as to what THAT implies re faith" ☝︎
mircea_popescu: and considering what happens in response to curl -v -X GET -H "range: bytes=1-8" www.loper-os.org (full page dump) we can add asciilifeform / nfs to the list of "does not support ranges" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779643 << trivial to check, issue a head, see if "accept-ranges" is in there. if not -- no support ☝︎
mircea_popescu: so yes, head support universal, ranged request support present but not that reliable.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 17:06 asciilifeform: now that's fuckedup
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779633 << all servers had head because it's antique ; ranged requests went through an ebb and flow of implemented, then disabled because implemented wrongly and buffer overflows, then etc. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 06:24 trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True yet any([]) -> False
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 17:02 trinque: my statement was that yes ^ and also for the logs "you wouldn't design something where $giveMeNoneOfIt implicitly means a metadata fetch"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779620 << is this a rehash of >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 ?! ☝︎☝︎
mircea_popescu: if i tell you i wish to see the file x except not any of its content this is logically equivalent, quite directly, to "metadata only plox"
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:59 trinque: if you tell me offset 0 range 0 I should ignore you entirely
asciilifeform: ( and naturally contents keccak to 04D9A9AB41E3AD407D8F030658273C2F8D1EC595D3D2D523252FEACF546AF86E . etc )
mircea_popescu: as that deed was stepping towards, yes
asciilifeform: e.g. 'hey, trilema.com/js/04D9A9AB41E3AD407D8F030658273C2F8D1EC595D3D2D523252FEACF546AF86E.js is in my list, let's use'
asciilifeform: ( where, say, i can have local list of jsoids signed by actual people, that machine will willingly load, and no others )
asciilifeform: right, though it would win from a staticized url
mircea_popescu: we still need js as much as last time this was discussed, a week ago
asciilifeform: well that particular pile of shit goes away with js
mircea_popescu: quite opposite of sense ; and a much more important ablation target than forgotten/disused http words.
asciilifeform: ~invariably the first MB or so ( i wish this were joak ) contains only liquishit
mircea_popescu: or at the very least so "page is not usable until our shit is in"
mircea_popescu: if my loading of a web page dies 10kb in, i want that 10kb to have contained the article, not some "template" fugly.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and observe that the turdmeisters implemented elaborate hacks ( i.e. realtime DOM modification ) ~just so that ad crapolade loads first~
mircea_popescu: not evident that this should be as it is.
mircea_popescu: currently there's no equivalent hierarchy of html documents, so they are always sent in order of importance of parts.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 01:02 mp_en_viaje: but let's not let the praise fall by the wayside just because every successful step opens up so more further steps : nice bb! qntra back on huh!
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779272 << mazel tov & well done BingoBoingo ! ☝︎
mircea_popescu routinely pulls data from slaves/processes/etcetera with an explicit or implicit size limit and strong conventions as to ordering
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:56 phf: that's fair, you could do GET with a range of 0 bytes at 0 offset
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779605 << there is a good argument in favour of overloading meaning into verbs rather than inventing new verbs. an implementation of head as "get with 0 bytes accepted" is actually an improvement over current. ☝︎
asciilifeform: trinque's dht item also worth writing. ( hey trinque ! )
mircea_popescu: anyway, this worth moar thinking.
mircea_popescu: and the old handles will 404
asciilifeform: because , elementarily, doesn't hash to same hash.
mircea_popescu: "immutable" still enforced by server only. tomorrow i can decide to make a whole diff tree and gl to you.
asciilifeform: the idea is that if you have immutable url-to-payload correspondence, large-scale mirroring ( via , e.g., gossipd wot ) becomes practical.
mircea_popescu: tomorrow, linkrot will thereby mean "you might not have the original data ; OR you might not have the original program".
asciilifeform: not long ago i loaded a 'torrent' that was first put up ~7yrs ago. because somebody still mirrored.
mircea_popescu: not so. consider : linkrot today means, "you might not have the data original server had". like you lost lispmachine FET say.
asciilifeform: this is what www would have been if made by the sane.
asciilifeform: and yes, flat, and yes, goodbye to link rot.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-28 03:58 mircea_popescu: trinque tbh, i think wikis are a (braindamaged, dysfunctional, uncomprehending) response to the html-is-broken / transclusion issue discussed yest and etc.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. thread http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-28#1491799 ) ☝︎
mircea_popescu: no longer a hodge-podge of "plugins" and "themes" haphazard and therefore entirely flat conceoptually.
mircea_popescu: consider the machinery that blogs become, in this system
mircea_popescu: it is threateningly complex.
asciilifeform: !#s transclusion
asciilifeform: iirc ted nelson actually got stuck on how to do this particular thing.
asciilifeform: i think mircea_popescu grasps the idea.
mircea_popescu: rather than unmaintainably clog out my blog and risk being deleted any day now.
mircea_popescu: now, this ad hoc hack could have been a proper alt-leaf thing
a111: Logged on 2018-01-13 07:06 mircea_popescu: !~later tell hanbot here's something you might find useful : http://trilema.com/hanbot/
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-13#1770183 << this ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( y'know, exactly like whoever wants to , can mirror trb universe )
mircea_popescu: consider the hack i did recently for hanbot
mircea_popescu: "i want trilema as rss not trilema as main page" or "i want trilema as list of archives not as main page"
asciilifeform: now anyone who wants to mirror, can. and whoever fetches, knows what he's getting, and how it related to universe.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i confess i've not prior considered the v-http server.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: edges into a 'causes and purposes' discussion, dunnit. even if trilema doesn't possibly use any such thing, conceivably it is still the Right Thing
asciilifeform: and which knobs are equiv to DELETE and CHECKOUT
mircea_popescu: and it's a wonder if it'd be actually worth it. consider -- what alternative wp-mps would i maintain on trilema ?
asciilifeform: orig q was , however, re what knobs in traditional http are actually needed, for civilized life
mircea_popescu: this is by now SO MUCH HEAVIER than current http...
mircea_popescu: not mere "merkle tree", but actual proper v struct, with seals resources and errything.
mircea_popescu: but you WANT header then ; it is the evident place to report the v-struct
asciilifeform: it is not to swap out apache , no.
asciilifeform: this is why asciilifeform even gave a damn to begin with , re 'sane http'
mircea_popescu: yes but this is a much more integrated v-http server than previously even hinted at.
asciilifeform: exactly this.
asciilifeform: so in this hypothetical, mircea_popescu's trilema url (or rather, the raw hash underneath it) will only change when he changes his generator.
mircea_popescu: "process my data with the press X as identified from your manifest, i don';t trust X'"
asciilifeform: *of the
asciilifeform: rather than the pseudo-static output (html in this case)
asciilifeform: to take hash of ~program~ to use as perma-url for dynamics.
mircea_popescu: seems to me it's a thing unto itself.
mircea_popescu: can you actually say the above snippet is "really kludge to display bouquets of statics properly" ?
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's angle is that it is wrong that there is no sane scheme for distinguishing these. and likewise for properly handling the fact that most of what people do with 'dynamic' is really kludge to display bouquets of statics properly
asciilifeform: exactly that.
mircea_popescu: "find a thing such as x" vs "follow steps x give whatever comes out" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in that one is imperative and the other descriptive so to speak.
mircea_popescu: (for convenience, in pesudocode : select from an array of possible headers the one which corresponds to the remainder of dividing by 42 the number you obtain by converting from hexadecimal format the string you obtain by taking 6 characters from the 7th of the md5 hash of the current date)
asciilifeform: this goes back to the trinque thread, where he (correctly) observed that 'gimme resource R, find it using hash H' is a separate, conceptually, entity from 'perform command C and return result R'
mircea_popescu: that's the major challenge : can the argument be constructed to see what is actually wrong with that piece of gnarl ?
mircea_popescu: well, the baked in assumption here is that the tits, great as they are, benefit from impredictable dress prison each day.
asciilifeform: the current hack around this is the archiver. but it is a hack.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is discussing the header production only.
asciilifeform: right, but no way to guarantee it
mircea_popescu: so technically thjere is way
asciilifeform: nor is there any way to link to an internal element of it ( sorta why mircea_popescu had to write his js hack )
mircea_popescu: well, same thing for all users on same day.
asciilifeform: well for instance, that there's no way to link to it such that the receiver of the link is guaranteed to see the same thing.
mircea_popescu: now, what is the problem with non-static page ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:54 trinque: the hash says what item I want
asciilifeform: ( btw, the trinque thread, ftr : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709083 ) ☝︎
mircea_popescu: actually, let's meditate together upon the following item, perhaps it resolves some subtle issues :
mircea_popescu: i think ferocranium of many knocks learns some intuitive avoidance.
mircea_popescu: phf he was headed straight into "no such thing as static content, you can discover this whenever you re-read the same words in a trilema article", but he sidestepped.
asciilifeform: phf: it is also a v-ism, that's the thing
mircea_popescu: this said, the implementation is in fact kludgy, but this is no reason to alter the design.