asciilifeform: but i could think of one definitive improvement over traditional hashes: non-algebraic (see recent 'rsa padding' thread) tranform
asciilifeform: i know of 0 uses for a 'hash' where the same ~input~ is not guaranteed to produce ~same output~
asciilifeform: to go back to hashes, and if you for some reason eschew 'when hiring fortune-teller, hire the cheapest',☟︎
asciilifeform: all by itself it'd be a worthwhile thing, if only for this.
asciilifeform: and if you can achieve it in a ~discrete~ system, you can get wolfram to drink himself to death, by properly demonstrating 'cellular physics' (tm) (r) where he failed.☟︎
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you know how to get effect entirely analogous to gas turbulence in a purely electric machine, there are many folks who will clap, do say.
asciilifeform: most schemes naively stemming from such confusion end up equivalent to electric version of invisible ink.
asciilifeform: there is ~0 actual relationship between 'confusing to the naked eye' and 'crypto-hard'☟︎
asciilifeform: because 'life' automaton tends to settle into quiescent states (bunch of small oscillating 'critters', no real turmoil)☟︎
asciilifeform: but if you actually try this, you will learn that it is not.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: to take toy example: 'game of life' playing field state, with initial state S and move count M, naively might seem like good crypto
asciilifeform: (tldr -- a digital approximation of a complex process is 1) not ~the process itself~, noshit.jpg 2) not necessarily all that complex, in the chaos/avalanche sense, or in any way cryptologically hard)
asciilifeform: and if you want reading material, reread the thread where mircea_popescu suggested crypto using transcendental constants etc
asciilifeform: davout: e.g., 'ercoupe', had rudder, but linked to ailerons
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my current (wholly nonexpert) understanding is that airplane DELIBERATELY omits 'hard interlocks' wherever possible, on the principle that not-being-able-to-X-when-you-must is worse than can-X-when-you-mustn't☟︎
asciilifeform: (why do we still find pedals on ~all machines)
asciilifeform: davout: didja ever weigh in on the rudder thread ?
asciilifeform: i'd naively think that this would've been resolved in 1930s, if not earlier, just make the levers vastly different (shapes, or lengths, and feel, etc)☟︎
asciilifeform: (this is a certainty if the various components do not AT ALL TIMES agree)
asciilifeform: davout, ben_vulpes , et al : it is also tricky to properly rule out the situation where split-trb node behaves like a 'split-brain patient', and external observer gets contradictory answers from it to some possible question
asciilifeform: for the components to speak to one another.
asciilifeform: they will require a -- quite complicated -- entirely new protocol☟︎
asciilifeform: let's take the cuts as specified by mircea_popescu earlier.
asciilifeform: davout: could, theoretically, hurt, if it requires adding 100,000 lines of i/o glue logic
asciilifeform: i.e. as an object you can divide by 33 ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what means 'as a bignum' ?
asciilifeform: no transformation of mud-todays into jam-tomorrows plox.
asciilifeform: davout: aha, separate bin. but not 'today NO miner and MAYBE SOMEDAY a new miner'
asciilifeform: incidentally, ben_vulpes -- what height are your 'solipsist nodes' up to nao?
asciilifeform: gotta be ready to roll on five minutes' notice if the old miners ALL go home SIMULTANEOUSLY.
asciilifeform: trb miner is mircea_popescu's 'fleet in being'
asciilifeform: but it is a stretch. and does not let you ignite a bitcoin overnight if transported to alpha centauri (or, more likely, earth-with-broken-mainnet)☟︎
asciilifeform: now you ~could~ make the -- imho very tenuous -- argument that mining logic is ~implicitly~ present in the block verification logic.
asciilifeform: (a result where there is ~no~ miner available, i exclude from consideration because it pisses on the R in 'trb')
asciilifeform: i historically refused to touch the miner, and will not encourage anyone to touch it, because neither i nor anyone i know is equipped to properly test the result.
asciilifeform: davout: thing is, there is no such thing as this 'hot core'
asciilifeform: to steal from mircea_popescu's article on subj, 'get inseminated on purpose, rather than 'because hey, there was a party, and i like to drink''
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho it is necessary to 'defile grandfather's pistol' in certain carefully-selected ways, but only if it can be done while making it clear that it was defiled in ~these but not other, unspoken~ ways
asciilifeform: (if i cannot ~mechanically~ tell that the untouched parts are untouched -- they are, for all intents and purposes, touched)
asciilifeform: a patch that has any significant 'cut-and-pasteology' -- tends to make it intractable again.
asciilifeform: the entire point in using a differ in vtron at all (as opposed to signing ENTIRE body of work) is to make the work of the reader tractable.
asciilifeform: this is why the original genesis was such a painful affair (and why it was and remains important to READ how i did it)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely certain that the problem is solvable (it IS possible to define a richer diff language that permits block moves, but this also permits inscrutable-to-naked-eye patches to exist.)
asciilifeform: davout: that'd depend on 'how magical' , neh ?
asciilifeform: but it does not ~solve~ problem, only makes it manageable.
asciilifeform: i can think of a few palliative pills for it, in particular to structure the deletions and insertions in separate vpatches
asciilifeform: (gigantic deletes and inserts, rather than the actual 'we moved such-and-such lines to this-here place...')
asciilifeform: to rephrase: the resulting vdiff would be quite far from minimal
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can think of one (nonfatal, but quite unpleasant) headache: without a less-idiotic replacement for gnudiff, the resulting cut-trb becomes very difficult to pedigree to trad-trb . sorta like the problem with the tabs/spaces cleanup proposed by mircea_popescu last year
