asciilifeform: in the latter, you dump shit out of window, and rivers of piss fill the streets

asciilifeform: i only know 2 types of city -- today's, and stereotypical-medieval

asciilifeform: because 'republican city' is not a subj i am deeply familiar with.

asciilifeform: well that's what i'd like to study from mircea_popescu .

asciilifeform: they dun get to talk to the iron directly, etc.

asciilifeform: where, yes you can run >1 proggy on 1 box, but there are very real costs.

asciilifeform: imho best thread re same was the 'unix vs msdos' one

asciilifeform: it isn't even a subj particular to lisp.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho at some point we oughta pick up again the 'big city' thread, because the engineering tradeoffs of, e.g., gc, (esp. on hardware that does 0 to help) are very real.

asciilifeform: didn't mircea_popescu only show up for exam day or the like

asciilifeform: !((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))

asciilifeform: ! ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))

asciilifeform: lel

asciilifeform: phf et al : i still don't get why not simply candi_lustt (+ 2 2)

asciilifeform: then no need to switch it on/off, other than for maintenance

asciilifeform: why not have the thing answer to its own name strictly

asciilifeform: lol

asciilifeform: ( )

asciilifeform: parentheses ??

asciilifeform: lol! how did ^ happen

asciilifeform: (there is no running water there and so it is the only wash..)

asciilifeform: i keep it in the work room.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and funnily enough, first thing i did was (knockoff) lava soap.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am currently satisfied that this is so.

asciilifeform: q was about 'exists faster method?'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well noshit. is what i normally do.

asciilifeform: very solid, a++++

asciilifeform: acetone failed.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: yeah, got most of it off with wet sand, still remains the conformal crud.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: didn't feel like climbing down from ladder to get'em.

asciilifeform: and with liberal admixture of dirt and insects

asciilifeform: of course!

asciilifeform: !~later tell BingoBoingo what the hell does one use to get gap-sealing foam off skin ? my hands look like 'advance leprousy' after two dozen washes with 4+ solvents..

asciilifeform: mp-wp supports footnotes ~in comments~ ?!

asciilifeform: aah

asciilifeform: it was... less-than sign ?

asciilifeform: iirc i recently tried to mix something entirely else with it, and also got barf

asciilifeform: in re shannonizer lulz, http://www.onthelambda.com/2014/02/20/how-to-fake-a-sophisticated-knowledge-of-wine-with-markov-chains/

asciilifeform: just not of car.

asciilifeform: the lulzy bit is that places like oslo, bangkok, etc. with draconian auto tax, still have jams.

asciilifeform: (tax on auto, for instance, was 100k usd iirc)

asciilifeform: it so happens that i read all of the material from the naggum archive. and apparently d00d lived in oslo, a very strongly socialist hellhole, and hated it for all of the right reasons.

asciilifeform: 'available ad libitum to those within the walls'

asciilifeform: naggum, for instance, used payware lisptrons that cost megabux.

asciilifeform: 'public service' does not necessarily mean 'communist', just means that it is available to folks within the walls. can have price of admission, as in medieval germany, it is not specified how 'public road' is paid for.

asciilifeform: actually from my reading naggum's 'city' is simply 'place where the mains sockets work, the roads are smooth, and vehicle can be mercedes and not necessarily mule'

asciilifeform: dunno, maybe he sat in kresty, and just weighs words veeery carefully.

asciilifeform: or what was it.

asciilifeform: are we talking of same d00d? because the phf i recall sleeps in a tent, in arizona desert, surrounded by 48 virgins

asciilifeform: i must've missed one hell of a thread. where, e.g., phf was 'delicate'..?

asciilifeform: why does 'city with paved roads and indoor plumbing' necessarily equate to 'impotence' ?

asciilifeform: this goes back to the 'tallest tower' thread.

asciilifeform: ^ actually a discussion of cl strings!

asciilifeform: 'Common Lisp is a big-city language. Spit out the hayseed, pronounce "shit" with one syllable and "shotgun" with two. You're not in Kansas, anymore. C is the language of the poor farmer village where the allocation of every seed and livestock matters, where taxes are low and public service non-existent.'

asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3236870273259433@naggum.net.html << possibly related, re the 'resources' thing

asciilifeform: because compact, correct description of 'what is array'

asciilifeform: it was memorable

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-02#1444246 ? ☝︎

asciilifeform: in other lulz -- https://archive.is/WxWgs << run moar weirdo closed chats

asciilifeform: ^ turda was that salt mine, neh...?

asciilifeform: lul

asciilifeform: aaand it's back

asciilifeform: noworky here

asciilifeform: phf's logtron down??

asciilifeform: nifty idea overall.

asciilifeform: (and vice-versa)

asciilifeform: i.e. dulap will occasionally drop zoolag! and there is currently nothing i can do to force it not to

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-12#1602003 << we do not, afaik, presently have a knob in trb that would enable the 'at you' part of this. ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-12#1602020 << this is pretty nifty. ☝︎

asciilifeform: file under the 'laptops suck' thread.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski posted link to $10k x86 lappy. and asciilifeform remarked that it is similar box to what he built for nowhere close to 10k usd.

asciilifeform: the model airplane you glued when you were 5, was harder.

asciilifeform: you buy the boards, the tin, etc. and they snap together in exactly 1 way.

asciilifeform: at any rate it is about as much of an intellectual exercise as building chair from 'ikea' etc.

asciilifeform: 'remarkable build' for pc would be, say, water cooling thing made from toyota. ( asciilifeform had this nonsense as a student. )

asciilifeform: which q. i'm trying to work in order here

asciilifeform: where was he in the 90s

asciilifeform: and srsly, pete_dushenski never had to build pc?!

asciilifeform: pretty unremarkable build.

asciilifeform: as it always does.

asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: and it took a coupla hours.

asciilifeform: ~ 35 x 25 x 20 cm.

asciilifeform: ended up with a thing ~= the size of a breadbox.

asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: wtf, didn't make laptop, no

asciilifeform: (unless the year is 1995 and it's a 'tadpole sparcbook' etc)

asciilifeform: 10k usd for lappy is bizzarroworld.

asciilifeform: (and of very similar physical volume and mass.)

asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i just built a heathentron box with very similar specs, for roughly 1/4 the cost

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al : http://trilema.com/2017/towards-a-better-hash-function/#comment-121047

asciilifeform caught up.

asciilifeform brb, food

asciilifeform: in other cases collisions need some form of structure to be useful, but this is only mild consolation.

asciilifeform: (consider one especially disastrous meltdown: in the merkle tree variant of lamport's signature scheme, you are hashing over RNG output. so if ANY collision whatsoever can be found, the enemy can forge signatures at will.)

asciilifeform: otherwise it reduces to a fancy crc32.

asciilifeform: you gotta have collision resistance, for almost any practical application.

asciilifeform: so quite useless.

asciilifeform: if you can find ~any~ collision, the hash is broken.

asciilifeform: (to use the nomenclature in mircea_popescu's piece strictly)

asciilifeform: when you look for a hash collision, your goal is to find ~some~ M that produces the particular desired R.

asciilifeform: nope