tmsr - Search: i

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mircea_popescu: i even sympathize with it, albeit from a distance.

phf: i've also been reduced to explaining lame jokes in log!

phf: i'm making fun of humanoidity's assumption that you guys need to go talk to devs elsewhere, by pretending to assume that bitbet was built in a very hackernews bezzel way, i.e. by outsourcing to an agile consultancy

mircea_popescu: no, bitbet was, at least the first incarnation, shivad together by kakobrekla in... whatr was it, two weeks or something, i don't recall exactly.

phf: i thought you guys used a valley startup to build it???

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 23:45:07; humanoidity: kakobrekla: on the technical issue that bit you guys (re-issuing a tx multiple times IIUC), and the conspiracy theories it spawned, I am wondering if you guys raised the issue with the devs to see if they reach the same conclusion ?

kakobrekla: i dont see where time went but if you say so ... i cant do it alone.

adlai: i dunno, we're all a bunch of text here, except for the chicks that get their nickles one dime at a time

adlai: i hurt my 'reputation', for my own pleasure (and that of lurkers), and got the private keys stolen from under me fingers. oh well.

adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-03-2016#1418943 << "i don't know i was very drunk at the time" (not trademarked, iirc i didn't even get liner note credits) ☝︎

mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432938 << i lulzed. ☝︎

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 22:22:18; phf: but as an advertisement platform for mpex and steady stream of income for investors i don't see ~anything~ wrong with bitbet. my current interpretation is that a lot of various people overreacted and a sure thing was killed.

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 22:07:26; phf: jurov: i wonder if there are referees besides kako and mp. owners got at least 75btc each plus sales of shares, plus payouts from unsold shares.

mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432859 << i dunno that every bit of historical item that is no longer as useful as it was is automatically an oversight. but sure, we can entertain that view, perhaps it is informative. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432845 << i dunno that this is factual, but w/e. ☝︎☟︎

mircea_popescu: ytou'll have to excuse me, i run parsed not compiled logs.

phf: mircea_popescu: jurov pointed out the error of my ways, but i believe that i might've accomplished what i was fumbling for already

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:26:03; phf: jurov: you're right, there's not much that can be done as far as bickering. i find some of the positions rather petty or outright alarmist, but i can't keep people from talking. i'm only thinking that an arbitration procedure could produce tldr that at the very least will focus the attention.

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:23:52; asciilifeform: i suspect that mircea_popescu would rather burn it than let it go to hitler.

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:21:59; asciilifeform: bbet was ~the~ bet machine, as far as i'm concerned, fwiw, and now there is none.

mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432813 << this view i share. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: i have nfi, but it was a very bitter thing.

mircea_popescu: because yes, the thing as it worked is STILL a major improvement over traditional gambling anything, and there's no sane reason i could possibly see that bitbet wouldn't carry a majority of the world's 10bn to 1 trn dollars worth of yearly prop betting.

mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432792 << perhaps the darkest voodoo involved in all of this, and one which i openly confess i struggled with for the entire interval and never managed to even comprehend let alone do a iota towards breaking was - that there seemed to be ~infinite ammount of bitcoin ready to COVER bets, but very little interest to fund them. somehow, for some reason, even with the strict ☝︎

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seriously. I have suspicions on how this could be done, but... given the necessary ugliness in this sort of brokering solrodar's bid seems awfully cheap.

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:02:38; asciilifeform: jurov: i suspect that if you were to suggest to mircea_popescu that a group of lordz could, or ought to, make a collective decision, he would break out in hives and barf

BingoBoingo: The problem to selling in a way that maximally recoups value is my chief barrier to bidding. Hard problem I have little experience or connections to do.

mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432770 << obviously anyone's free to use the wot as they please (and yes, lack of homogenity is still its only defense against immediate explosive doom) but i can't see myself negrating someone for not agreeing with someone else. seems rather rich. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: i'm aware that they do these weird "can't throw X people off premises" in the us, but the excision of that sort of nonsense is no small part of what tmsr is all about.

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 20:53:38; phf: jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432304 is what i said about the 17btc question

assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 01:12:32; solrodar: I liked bitbet, I'd be sorry to see it go

mircea_popescu: hey, i liked it too.

solrodar: I liked bitbet, I'd be sorry to see it go ☟︎

solrodar: which is why I think it's still in both of your best interests to sort this out between you

mircea_popescu: i suppose the "what's the value of code" item is a very vague thing on the internet still huh.

solrodar: I would suggest that the domain remains in kakobrekla's hands and temporarily pointed to an address under my control

mircea_popescu: anyway - i appreciate your offer to help, and i don't think it can be summarily dismissed. it has its obvious weaknesses which you may consider improving.

solrodar: I think an external auction would provide the best price for the domain name

solrodar: so I am familar with that field

solrodar: I haven't sold anything of this nature before, but I have managed a number of domain names including one I bought at auction

mircea_popescu: well good, but i don't think he's buying. at any rate, so what do you plan to do to actually get cash out of the goods ? list them for sale somewhere ? simply run an auction here ? details help.

solrodar: I would also provide a third-party verification that in my judgment the codebase for sale is complete and working

solrodar: I got your meaning, just catching up

mircea_popescu: i don't think you take my meaning. have you for instance ever auctioned a domain name successfully ? are you well known in those circles ? anything ? ☟︎

solrodar: and secondly, that in the interests of settling this before the end of the year, I might choose to refund some bets rather than waiting for them all to resolve

solrodar: firstly, that I might deviate from the seniority indicated there

mircea_popescu: i'm sure somebody somewhere has, why not. anyway : what do you plan to do to maximize shareholder revenue from bitbet assets ? ☟︎

solrodar: obviously I'm not well known enough to be trusted with the site funds, so I have a proposal

solrodar: now that I see that kakobrekla has also agreed to liquidation, I am applying for the job of receiver

mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432738 << this is not generally true. even if it were true - it'd also be the essence of oppression. think well about how a world would look where hunger drives coding, for instance. i dunno if you've ever experienced the classical street urchin of central asia thing, but anyway. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432711 << i dunno why people figure i do all sorts of things myself, not that the idea isn't flattering. but no, i'm no shiva. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432703 << i'm pretty sure there would have been, yes. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: but yes, if you're curious, the reason i might blast at you when you go into a patented jurov tailspin while i'm simply bitchslapping him into oblivion is that you WERE here then, and your spleen is actually part of that same ground. and yes these things matter, at least to me.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> phf: they never quite got to this point << i dun think this was the case either intended or implied.

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 20:29:33; jurov: from today's log i have learned that it's important to report *all* expenses, otherwise the "did this or that for free" arguments become another nail in the coffin

humanoidity: kakobrekla: on the technical issue that bit you guys (re-issuing a tx multiple times IIUC), and the conspiracy theories it spawned, I am wondering if you guys raised the issue with the devs to see if they reach the same conclusion ? ☟︎

kakobrekla: eating the cost may not guarantee it happening in the future (the technical solution i made was suppose to do that) but it sure would help

humanoidity: phf: I see. Hence the "receiver" bizness. Sounds like a marriage counselor is what is needed here :)

humanoidity: jurov: ah, yes, the pgp signed contracts which can't ever be renegociated when external circumstances change. I hadn't realized that.

phf: i take it the issue is not "where" the money comes from (because there's a valid existing venue that worked in the past for this particular usecase), the issue is that of trust, i.e. kako doesn't trust mp for future bitbet operations

kakobrekla: technical solution to the problem is coded but i dont think it will ever be used. for other solutions - it seems the ship has sailed

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 16:20:43; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432065 << if you wish to help the receiver along through donating all/part of the work in a publicly verifiable manner, that is your privilege and i am sure will be appreciated by the beneficiaries who they may be.

humanoidity: Yeah, 750. But what I mean is that spreading that 17BTC loss over the 740BTC outstanding bets might be a way out. The only liability will be the site's rep, and the damage won't be irreparable looks like

humanoidity: Also, I'm thinking ... 17/240 is 0.0229 which ain't much.

asciilifeform: i liked it too.

humanoidity: I like this site a lot. Sorta sad to see it go pear-shaped for what seems like a fairly simple governance problem.

asciilifeform: (largely because i had none)

asciilifeform: kakobrekla: in a way i 'skipped school', did not lose coin in any of the major catastrophes of the dark ages

humanoidity: kakobrekla: is there a path forward to unjam things for bitbet at this point ? I'm not I am fully groking this "receiver" business

asciilifeform: i lost it fair & square (afaik)

asciilifeform: why would i get it back.

phf: wait, i thought that most likely now ascii just gets his coin back?

asciilifeform: i think c3 was actually cheaper

asciilifeform: i lost this one pretty solidly

asciilifeform: i have 2 bits of emotion kakobrekla

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432943 << i will feel nothing, it isn't my toy that was broken, nor was i involved in any way in its breakage afaik ☝︎

humanoidity: kakobrekla: thx for context, this explains quite a bit, and I'm starting to understand what is making this situation sticky

assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 17:17:04; mircea_popescu: i'm a masochist like that.

assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 17:15:50; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yes, by the time the 4th txn trying to pay out bitbet vanished without a trace, i was sort-of expecting it.

humanoidity: kakobrekal: Ah, I guess the implied message is that you believe mp's to be at fault for the double payout ?

asciilifeform: i even have, in my collection, such a thing.

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:20:43; asciilifeform: i won't bet so much as a satoshi at a betmoose or fairlay or whatever other wotless wild derpery.

asciilifeform: just knows, i suspect, that he itches, but not why

BingoBoingo: I thought a mircea_popescu had gurlz to do that.

assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 22:18:12; phf: and i have no idea, and i think that's the problem ascii runs into a lot too, my hour, when paid in fiat, is more expensive by a margin. but my work on various tmsr ventures is unpaid, so a bitcoin operation, that's funneling bitcoins at a steady pace?

jurov: ok, i misunderstaood you

humanoidity: jurov: I read "Nevertheless, I am floating its negative cash balance free of charge, with a view of being defrayed from future profits.". I may not be using the accurate terminology here, but it sounds like a loan.

humanoidity: jurov: Understood. But it also means payout for resolved bets are frozen, I guess. :(

jurov: they *are* safe but subject to liquidation, about which i have no idea

humanoidity: Also, I'd be interested to know how much bet money is currently parked at bitbet, and how safe these are

phf: but as an advertisement platform for mpex and steady stream of income for investors i don't see ~anything~ wrong with bitbet. my current interpretation is that a lot of various people overreacted and a sure thing was killed. ☟︎☟︎

phf: and i have no idea, and i think that's the problem ascii runs into a lot too, my hour, when paid in fiat, is more expensive by a margin. but my work on various tmsr ventures is unpaid, so a bitcoin operation, that's funneling bitcoins at a steady pace? ☟︎

phf: jurov: i wonder if there are referees besides kako and mp. owners got at least 75btc each plus sales of shares, plus payouts from unsold shares. ☟︎

jurov: phf well.. such magnitude of payouts is fine for coinbr where i'm alone.. not for 2 owners, shareholders, referees,...

asciilifeform: and because i consider it possible for tmsr to develop into something like a planetoid economy.

asciilifeform: but more to earth, what i meant was the set of 'high-powered types' he hangs out with when he is not, in his own words, 'tending the daycare'

asciilifeform: though i admit that i always thought meta-assets consisted wholly (other than mp) of pretty gurlz

jurov: lol i should expect this.

asciilifeform: i don't generally ask such questions because i am not dumb enough to expect answer.