mircea_popescu: mike_c also, could "Timestamp" space be about 75% larger so it doesn't force double lines ?
assbot: blacktower is not registered in WoT.
blacktower: having trouble with nickserv right now, perf thanks for the urls. ill get that going
cazalla: Pierre_Rochard, back on twitter or an imposter?
mircea_popescu: !rate ben_vulpes -1 said naked and famous, there's no naked and not famous. ponzi!
cazalla: (the drinking, not the men)
decimation: asciilifeform: you didn't take one of the luxurious american airlines?
decimation: actually I've found us air carriers are the worst
decimation: although american airlines tend to have among the more competent pilots
decimation: where else are you gonna find a guy with experience flying under fire in 'nam
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00031355 = 9.9709 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41750 @ 0.00031384 = 13.1028 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55140 @ 0.00030972 = 17.078 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55700 @ 0.00031486 = 17.5377 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.0003104 = 9.9949 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00031041 = 7.3102 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: height=334315 vs height=353419 (note that the 2nd value is now greater. I have copied data dir from a full node)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.0003104 = 3.7714 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: i copied the data dir from a 0.7.2 node and the foundation's pre-0.5.3.1 loaded it fine and is now adding blocks to it
decimation: danielpbarron: do you mean the latest 0.5.3.1 build?
danielpbarron: i compiled it using the patches that ended up becoming 0.5.3.1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66489 @ 0.00031199 = 20.7439 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22750 @ 0.0003104 = 7.0616 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32410 @ 0.00031014 = 10.0516 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83450 @ 0.00030693 = 25.6133 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76644 @ 0.00030006 = 22.9978 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22095 @ 0.00029823 = 6.5894 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32711 @ 0.00029724 = 9.723 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17300 @ 0.00030826 = 5.3329 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89350 @ 0.0002942 = 26.2868 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93100 @ 0.00030161 = 28.0799 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22418 @ 0.00029528 = 6.6196 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37012 @ 0.00029171 = 10.7968 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47800 @ 0.00029122 = 13.9203 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75100 @ 0.00030939 = 23.2352 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59300 @ 0.00031243 = 18.5271 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.00031014 = 1.2095 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70500 @ 0.00031269 = 22.0446 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.00031269 = 1.8918 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81750 @ 0.00030112 = 24.6166 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36555 @ 0.00030071 = 10.9925 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16095 @ 0.00030071 = 4.8399 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22250 @ 0.00029983 = 6.6712 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31642 @ 0.00030048 = 9.5078 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.00031205 = 4.0879 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94310 @ 0.00031398 = 29.6115 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.000315 = 3.528 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8383 @ 0.000315 = 2.6406 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8617 @ 0.00031503 = 2.7146 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39450 @ 0.00030066 = 11.861 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00031528 = 7.4248 BTC [+] {2}
williamdunne: danielpbarron: Still have the key, just changed my name format
williamdunne: Its on a computer that hasn't touched the internet in a while so not worth the effort of moving it
williamdunne: Trying to use some custom Map library that claims to be the Fastest, Greatest, Most flexible. It reduced by speed by 16 times.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00029904 = 6.4892 BTC [-]
williamdunne: danielpbarron: Got some private investment on it, did a soft-launch, found what I did wrong, and now working on a complete overhaul which should be pretty awesome
danielpbarron: you're actually still going to use it for something serious?
danielpbarron: my asset, MEAT, is up in value from this time last year :D
williamdunne: Can't imagine that I have enough rep to do that yet, but its something I would be open to in the future
williamdunne: I would like to be used by MPEX for options settlement too - I believe we could offer the reliability that was missing when MP last offered them
Naphex: williamdunne - Map library for what?
williamdunne: Naphex: Matching engine, using one thats meant to write to disk and have an audit trail (as well as being stupidly high performance) but so far its treating me like shit
Naphex: williamdunne: seems like a lot of needless complexity, just use a map with random access(if you need it) and the new stream api's. should be enough performance increase. pre-alloc the memory for the map first if arraycopy is bringing the performance down.
williamdunne: asciilifeform: You'd probably be more disgusted if you knew all of the langs I enjoy using
Naphex: asciilifeform just has some spaz when he hears java. same thing when i hear about lisp
Naphex: luckaly the lisp chef will have his shit serverd and all wrapped in paranthesis :)
☟︎ Naphex: asciilifeform: how so?
Naphex: what makes it so pernicious?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41219 @ 0.00029869 = 12.3117 BTC [-] {2}
Naphex: anyway, what else is cooking
Naphex: 13:59 <+Naphex> williamdunne: seems like a lot of needless complexity, just use a map with random access(if you need it) and the new stream api's. should be enough performance increase. pre-alloc the memory for the map first if arraycopy is bringing the performance down.
williamdunne: Naphex: I'll have a dig. I'm currently trying to find an efficient way to send messages between some order parsers and the matching engine itself
Naphex: williamdunne: do you do your own locking or use the locking from that Map library?
Naphex: cause you could easily beat that
williamdunne: I was just starting to experiment with it tbh, I literally just took out my treemap and put in the chronicle map
Naphex: williamdunne: what you should be doing is just using a regular map, and doing binary insert into it
Naphex: don't trash the mem :P
williamdunne: Doesn't particularly help that I have only 100mb of free mem currently
williamdunne: Wait, surely TreeMap is the most ideal as it guarantees that the orders are actually.. in order?
Naphex: williamdunne: you do that with a map and binary insert with a Price-Time Priority comparator
williamdunne: Derp. Well now I have to work out that one. I only started looking at Java 3-4 days ago -.-
Naphex: as long as you don't have duplicated data ( and you shouldn't)
Naphex: the map will always be sorted
williamdunne: Yeah, although don't have to deal with price-time in this case
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52000 @ 0.00031671 = 16.4689 BTC [+]
Naphex: williamdunne: well, you can't have dup data so you need a unique field. Price will have duplicated data :P
Naphex: atleast get a unique id or something and use that instead of time:p
williamdunne: Naphex: Would another solution not be to just append it to duplicate data? i.e if I have another order come in at $150 just add it to the quantity
williamdunne: And then the order handlers work out what belongs to who
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44711 @ 0.00029778 = 13.314 BTC [-]
Naphex: williamdunne: how will the order handlers do that?
Naphex: williamdunne: how do you define an order?
Naphex: you can group orders by price sure, but thats just for 'display'
williamdunne: Naphex: Assuming the order handlers are aware of the orders that should be in the book they can work out who placed what when and who is owed what
Naphex: williamdunne: sounds reduntant
Naphex: an order should have a timestamp, side, quantity, and price if it has a limit
williamdunne: Naphex: Currently they just have side quantity and price
Naphex: williamdunne: how will the order handler know who to serve and which order to execute?
williamdunne: The way I was planning it was that the core is just a simple limit/market job, and then the handlers do all of the things like checking balances before passing anything to the book itself
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20789 @ 0.00029429 = 6.118 BTC [-]
williamdunne: Seems like it could be good if you're already stuck with some solar panels
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26779 @ 0.00030133 = 8.0693 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: They can be controlled with a Web app and a smartphone app. << what could go wrong?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48911 @ 0.00029449 = 14.4038 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58995 @ 0.00031033 = 18.3079 BTC [+] {2}
williamdunne: Yeah the LMAX architecture is awesome. Matt introduced me to Java through it
williamdunne: Firefox can't find the server at www.cascadianhacker.com.
ben_vulpes: this was a conscious decision at one point
williamdunne: Yeah, I do similar on my sites but I 303 www to no wwww
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00029823 = 6.3225 BTC [-]
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: So what are these Pogos? I had a look for them but I found some cloud backup company who didn't even advertise a pogo plug as far as I could see
williamdunne: Current code doesn't support Atom but I can modify it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77900 @ 0.0002904 = 22.6222 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 18:05:45; mircea_popescu: speaking of varnish, i actually got some numbers.
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 14:00:57; Naphex: luckaly the lisp chef will have his shit serverd and all wrapped in paranthesis :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15850 @ 0.00029811 = 4.725 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 14:02:19; asciilifeform: the java stack per se - entirely ignoring the language (which is an instrument of torture) is a pernicious enough thing that i do not allow it on any metal under my control which matters
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Still working to get Atom support working, wasn't working with the small change
mircea_popescu: "battery-based energy storage for residential and commercial customers. The batteries power up overnight when energy companies typically charge less for electricity, then are used during the day to power a home." << theres just no way this is cost effective.
mircea_popescu: the price differential won't likely even cover cost of insurance for that bomb, let alone its capital amortisation
mircea_popescu: not to even consider the fact that once this commodifies, the night discount goes away
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91987 @ 0.00029069 = 26.7397 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: So, before I go off in another direction, I guess I should ask if anyone knows how to get a gentoo stage3 running on an AWS instance. Previously, when testing v0.5.3.1-RELEASE on an AWS instance I used a pre-build/configured AMI that are available; which leads me to believe why I probably got some slightly different results from others who had used a roll-your-own gentoo with stage3.
mod6: Is it at all possibru to set up the instance with a Gentoo AMI, and then use it as a shim to somehow re-load with a clean stage3?
Naphex: mod6: i roll my own gentoo's. what's the problem with amazon?
Naphex: mod6: why not just kill most of the stuff running on the AMI and do a chroot and set that up
Naphex: mod6: unpack a stage3 and chroot it. set it up
mod6: I'm probably just dumb. How can I setup an instance with a clean stage3. All I see that are available are AMI's. And I'm worried that they've got things/tools pre-installed that I don't want to have in there. This instance will be a build/testing server for R.I. development.
Naphex: mod6: i never used AWS. But i doubt you could switch the kernel. but the chroot should solve your issues
mod6: ok, so setup a chroot environment, and run everything in the chroot?
mod6: Thanks for the tip.
Naphex: get the latest stage, unpack it and chroot it
mircea_popescu: mod6 anyway, oince you get this working make sure to describe what you did IN GREAT DETAIL
Naphex: make sure you kill the other running stuff before
mod6: mircea_popescu: ok, will do.
mod6: this is good news, because I still want to attach the 350gb drive that I used for chain storage (i've got at least 6+ fully syncd) to the instance.
Naphex: mod6: 1) kill already started services, especially any syslog running. 2) mount sysfs, procfs, and /dev (binded) 3) chroot it :P
mircea_popescu: mod6 Naphex prolly has a point in that if you actually switch out the kernel on an aws... well they basically lost it. how's their hypervisors etc to work
Naphex: mod6: if you need the other syslogs like wtmp,btmp,lastlog you'll probably have to hardlink them in log. But that should be it
mod6: ok thanks, good to know.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: musk's got a good handle on the battery safety thing. d'you recall the trumpeting over how his cell design nukes cascading failures when the Boeing batteries caught on fire midair?
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Okay, ScoopBot now supports Cascadian
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this is not how insurance works. insurance is an actuarial business
Naphex: trinque: does amazon load the kernel or just skips it?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: he's also self-insuring his solar panels.
ben_vulpes: well, not just the panels but the roofes on which they're installed.
ben_vulpes: and he's deeply bezzlefied, so he can probably convince tptb to let him self insure the bombs too!
trinque: Naphex: instructions there use your own kernel
mircea_popescu: the guy is taking massive levels of risk. one of teh few contemporary capitalists actually earning hteir keep.
mircea_popescu: and diversified enough that the arabs can-t quite outright kill him. (tho they're trying). i tell you this is a fun thing toi watch, for me.
Naphex: trinque: i guess, as i see they use xen. imho letting xen guests define the kernel is a sure way of suffering when they manage to break out of the hypervisor :P
mircea_popescu: Naphex i sometimes wonder how many boxes did amazon lose to date
trinque: mircea_popescu: it's a feature for their biggest customer
Naphex: mircea_popescu: well if they do the breakout they'll surely rootkit the hypervisor kernel as well. so doubt they'll ever find out :P
Naphex: mircea_popescu: all there is left to do now is grep for secrets :P
Naphex: why lose that capability. hide it and use it for fun
mircea_popescu: williamdunne so in the light of a new day, does the bsdm social media thing actualy look worth doing to you ?
trinque: if nobody's done it in a couple years, I'd love to take on a hosting biz on other shores
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Its definitely an interesting job, and if its a paying job I have the time. So yes
mircea_popescu: how much would it be paying and what do you intend to actually do ?
williamdunne: I guess that depends on how we wanted to do it and the full scope - could be a big or small job. What would be the end goal? Listing on MPEX and running it continuously or building the site and palming it off to someone else
williamdunne: I can do everything, if we want it to be pretty I can organize an actual designer too
mircea_popescu: sadly, for all the derpage re "bitcoin finance bla bla"
williamdunne: Okay, so MPEX route or just as a small private product
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I'll draw up a full spec and be sure that I can do it (in terms of time) and show that to you. Good starting point?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes shut up hater! there'sd even a bitcoin literature!
ben_vulpes: williamdunne: any actual volume on 'em?
williamdunne: But.. but.. the blogger said there are no bitcoin girls
trinque: ben_vulpes: can confirm my routine looks like "while (true) { if (awake) { type(); } else { dream_of_typing(); }}"
mircea_popescu: Bitcoin girl, you're outa sight, you need a bitcoin boy, to treat you right.
mircea_popescu: He'll do a little dance, take you home tonight. Leave his wallet alone, but you can kiss his node...
ben_vulpes: williamdunne: like a) how would we know if volume is what they say it is (who the fuck is operating them anyways), and b) is it oom comparable to mpoe?
williamdunne: Well if you believe the numbers, the volume is pretty huge. I believe it probably is still pretty big but wouldn't trust a bitcent on them (unlike MPOE of course)
ben_vulpes: trinque: best rockets are self-cooling
ben_vulpes: williamdunne: moreover, if you'd not trust a bitcent on them, they're not really 'actual'. finance runs on trust. no trust, not finance.
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Whom I choose to trust, and who others choose to trust are very different things, in fairness
trinque: ben_vulpes: "that which does not kill you"
trinque: but yeah, I don't expect to live this way forever
ben_vulpes: williamdunne: i'd ask if you've put any money down on 'em, but i think i already know the answer to that
ben_vulpes: lol and there's a guy going by goat in the trollbox
williamdunne: Yeah, it'd be nice to see some service offered by people worth trusting
trinque: the market needs more bitcoin businesses worth a shit
williamdunne: Pretty much. What do you think of ItBit trying to become a bank? To me it looks like they failed to create an exchange people want to use and now they're trying to diversify
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31452 @ 0.00029823 = 9.3799 BTC [+] {2}
williamdunne: They may have managed some VC fool to give them $60m so they can get their license
williamdunne: Thats supposedly the cost of running a bank pre-launch of your product
menahem: hey mircea, do you have an article in relation to your quotation "dreams may be anything you wish" ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.0003044 = 7.9753 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: !rate jurov 3 several collaborations, never a hitch.
Pierre_Rochard: williamdunne: new york trust company not quite a bank, much lower cost
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.jurov.3:57329d33c4fc57e0aac47da8b31e04d3f729abd0f5af3606aad543713a3f1e76
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for jurov from 4 to 3 with note: several collaborations, never a hitch.
ben_vulpes: !r xmj 1 wordprexen, django, sysadminnery.
ben_vulpes: !rate xmj 1 wordprexen, django, sysadminnery.
Pierre_Rochard: it may allow them to avoid all the money transmitter nonsense
menahem: lol, glad I asked. always a deeper layer to what you say. ;)
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.xmj.1:933aeac159af0249f00d4834cb27124d38e3e15066da9934a8c85507fe45ba23
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for xmj from 3 to 1 with note: wordprexen, django, sysadminnery.
ben_vulpes: !rate mircea_popescu 4 throws a hell of a party.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.mircea_popescu.4:4430379a4deb2448d272a058f445c0cc787a4d884020bbd276a4591a3c93c58b
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 3 to 4 with note: throws a hell of a party.
assbot: ssataneth is not registered in WoT.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: "i tried and therefore no-one can criticize me" 10/10.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.ssateneth.2:b996c934d87c4faa5b123390f7514bc646e6960ff27eabce91f7b18292956cc9
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for ssateneth from 3 to 2 with note: trade.
ben_vulpes: !rate kakobrekla 4 steward of la serenissima.
mircea_popescu: in any case the actual costs to running a bank aren't in getting the certificate. you gotta have the damned bank.
menahem: what would be some of the major challenges ?
mircea_popescu: not even. you gotta have people who can actually bank.
mircea_popescu: you know, think in the more accessible terms of a hospital.
mircea_popescu: and yes you need to get lawyers that'll protect you from being sued.
mircea_popescu: well... it's not a hospital yet, is it ? at some point you actually need some people who can cure people.
mircea_popescu: created in the 1400s, ran out of bankers in the 2000s, and swiftly out of history.
mircea_popescu: INVENTED the fucking double entry ledger, these people.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Surely a lot of the costs can be massively reduced now? Wasn't exactly much automation in the 15th century
mircea_popescu: the more you cut the clerical costs, the more the actual job of banking gets expensive.
mircea_popescu: was funny too, the derps were like "HE DOESN:T HAS TEH SKILLSss!11!1"
williamdunne: What skills? You literally told them how to do it..
assbot: The Bitlove LLC spin on their recent implosion, as presented to their captive audience. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1PBmy2M )
mircea_popescu: williamdunne but they have been dutifully banning their users (for saying anything but "this guy is horribru" and "what a violation!"). from what i hear the bancount's climbing well past 100 by now
williamdunne: I especially like the fact that their "solution" seems to be 422'ing anyone who is referred by trilema
mircea_popescu: yeah. works too, for the sort of muppets who pass along referrers
mircea_popescu: "is the hallmark of fiat psyops hell-bent on undermining their control of the monetary base. " << ben_vulpes come again ?
williamdunne: Max Keiser has started a new 'Crypto Fund' and somehow it has managed to $-2000 overnight
mircea_popescu: that muppet... i have no idea how he and his gf/announcer aren't in jail over the auroracoin scam
mircea_popescu: but i guess preet bharara is busy making his cell arrangements
williamdunne: I feel bad, because the person he's doing the 'fund' with is actually a decent guy. Been dragged in with his shit
williamdunne: 1/3 of the fund will be trading altcoins.. lol
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ty, i'll have words with the copyeditor
mircea_popescu: worse, much much worse than any deliberate scammer. the naive is the absolute shit of the world.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.kakobrekla.4:29b873003beb1f212de3c8e9e6efbec2208c75c4ec5c5a5b558f4ad1d931a7b9
assbot: Invalid verfication string.
ben_vulpes: !rate kakobrekla 4 steward of la srenissima.
mircea_popescu: dry wood is to be cut off and taken away. far, far away. in chains.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.kakobrekla.4:8d675ddc8f1c215a54e7a752b2e5bcb8ef714d53252b17926eaa7ca6c9de5a3b
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 3 to 4 with note: steward of la srenissima.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31544 @ 0.00030493 = 9.6187 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: people who do wrong unintentionally are to be punished.
ben_vulpes: ! rate mike_c 3 kindred derper in fiat.
mircea_popescu: people who do it intentionally, after we're done with the clueless set.
ben_vulpes: !rate mike_c 3 kindred derper in fiat.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.mike_c.3:a39f5723975f6239012276bce139acd24cdf5da37e75deba10545b1003c7face
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mike_c from 2 to 3 with note: kindred derper in fiat.
ben_vulpes: ! rate princessnell 1 coulda been a contender.
ben_vulpes: !rate princessnell 1 coulda been a contender.
williamdunne: I've already been blocked from Max Keisers twitter, seems like I should be proud of it - I don't even remember sending a tweet to him
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.princessnell.1:ac067a68fa38b40733dfc1ef7abc81ce3ea936d5b0f6c18156e16f2a28119ee6
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for princessnell from 2 to 1 with note: coulda been a contender.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.phf.1:fb393218870b21a4a538f2373afcb710a6c76d81e2dd4c73fe2df98ada1a357c
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 with note: lisper.
ben_vulpes: !rate asciilifeform 4 inventor, dreamer, builder, axe-man.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.asciilifeform.4:e03acfdc57029b6f7dabccc6af536737c2811b66f4a68e15ef2ffc589b94d72c
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for asciilifeform from 2 to 4 with note: inventor, dreamer, builder, axe-man.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.moiety.1:6a9e687df673d07fadd743f854a42c8afc189598fb7912745abd2636d041a98a
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for moiety from 2 to 1 with note: rip
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.brendafdez:9f0adfbf033abc63d678e93287e52fee75e6f2b82cfb1e07ff2c5acb223c73b9
assbot: Successfully unrated brendafdez
ben_vulpes: !rate pinkposixpxe 1 lent a hand with some bash.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.pinkposixpxe.1:f400fb6bdf67f7973cae3630895bba2bc99a7f3ccbf8b150aa1564505eb9d1b7
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for pinkposixpxe from 1 to 1 with note: lent a hand with some bash.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "and the Bitcoin ramp to 1200 proved to be an artifact of a fractional-reserve exchange, for just two examples." << this doesn't make sense, because the exchange was fractional in btc not in fiat.
ben_vulpes is not operating in threaded mode today
mircea_popescu: really, the impact of mtgox on anything to do with bitcoin, its "price" y compris, is broadly overstated.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.xanthyos:063771f705eb0f8c74a35a3ed06912c88db82549b6ad1aeedac4b1d224b64d6a
assbot: Successfully unrated xanthyos
williamdunne: Much like the overstatement of China's impact in the present day
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.hodlr:45fe0b89d2b81cd1e9ef17977e7b9c27a1297f572d4ed8ed5500f9384cd11163
assbot: Successfully unrated hodlr
mircea_popescu: depends present day of what. but yes, financially, it's more of a promise-to-impact, since the shanghai thing
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.rainman28:fb26fe46f1000f0fb04de29ceeee404f2769ffc32b41f35d3995f0431924305e
assbot: Successfully unrated rainman28
ben_vulpes: !rate mthreat 2 shared a cab with this pleasant chap one time.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.mthreat.2:e66c706e882d87e12793c048fd02435a335f4ea29f5ac893806eafe42c80be93
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mthreat from 1 to 2 with note: shared a cab with this pleasant chap one time.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.mats_cd03:694d8202dde00120747c28cdc08fa3217fdf0c55bd331a07dc9ad8cae66011a6
assbot: Successfully unrated mats_cd03
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.mats.1:5a41ff385c95c2cb42f4fb651b5945cbd0f218cf383a79b0d379bf915ff8d763
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mats from 1 to 1 with note: skeptic, sapper.
ben_vulpes: !rate hanbot 2 saw this legendary valkyrie in battle mode one time.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.hanbot.2:13c1fddf38e98958768f1e956448e6bc27e85e58e3320ef7efcf8c584d43ce68
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for hanbot from 1 to 2 with note: saw this legendary valkyrie in battle mode one time.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.josh_rossi:ba64844f870c914d60ce6482f2a844d69719676ccbd97077a0d3bd9270733b07
assbot: Successfully unrated josh_rossi
assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.
assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.mod6.4:137b83f998c89a7d7dcb1996a7d74390b3bff1f046f68382de16ea804db07274
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mod6 from 2 to 4 with note: foundation co-chair.
ben_vulpes: !rate davout 3 you wouldn't believe how this man makes the girlies eyes twinkle.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.davout.3:9ae5a5d63d4ee8a9954c91adf9e9f6e98def6da82fcacb235151890e35d96d98
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for davout from 2 to 3 with note: you wouldn't believe how this man makes the girlies eyes twinkle.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.assbot.10:20c9ead67ad3968ad9f9617e9359eb428b89d50bdeb9a5a0a6a3aeb848f0d9eb
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 10 for assbot.
ben_vulpes: !rate nanotube 1 runs the #bitcoin-otc web of trust.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.nanotube.1:6b3acdaf3c87b906a7e2fbc5257d477ab2d19c4aed01c2de68966135d2ed16a4
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for nanotube with note: runs the #bitcoin-otc web of trust.
ben_vulpes: !rate chetty 2 engineer of the world that was.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.chetty.2:d39733695e5e5231057a9eda40b1ee6bbdc8e536db46d48ada534ba1c2020678
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for chetty with note: engineer of the world that was.
mircea_popescu: "endless cycles of printing that necessitates will do all that is necessary to turn a single Bitcoin into a nuclear sub." << is necessarily going to ?
mircea_popescu: now you gotta go back through the turd and pick up my lines :D
ben_vulpes: like some derpy nodejs program that got locked on a single queue
assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 16:01:16; williamdunne: But in return you have more potential users of your XYZ business, and more potential to operate profitable businesses that are less-than-possible in the fiat world
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> turns out i kinda like ben_vulpes blog. << blush
ben_vulpes: i can't believe that i felt compelled to write it all out.
ben_vulpes: are you making a reference to the bible translation?
ben_vulpes: our vulgate then being pieces distilling conversations in the forum?
mircea_popescu: either that or the banal that's going to end up the canon.
williamdunne: Okay, Scoop will now fix himself in the event of my connection dropping
williamdunne: "about the stupidity of using the blockchain for anything that does not need to be:
williamdunne: immutable, fungible, non-discriminatory, and trustless"
williamdunne: -- Yeah I agree with you re: why bitcoin matters
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes there's a wider point here btw : the internet has been slowly evolving towards immutability. this trend is visible high and low - curtis yarvin's attempt to "remake bitcoin in his own yard" did not miss this point, the general response of the fetlife cattle to the meatlist is a very sound "internet is immutable", the wind is there.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi why this is the case, seeing how on the plain consideration immutability is a very retarded concept,
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: I too have the capability to write, even if I'm not as eloquent as most here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64249 @ 0.00030493 = 19.5914 BTC [+]
williamdunne: Sure thing, well someone had to make use of the gTLDs
mircea_popescu: "immutable, fungible, non-discriminatory, and trustless" hm. this seems actually correct.
mircea_popescu: take discrimination and put it in the wot <-> currency has no business discriminating.
mircea_popescu: puts the entire serenissima vs nato dispute in much better contrast, from this angle. they want to infect everything with everything,
williamdunne: I think I covered the WoT a bit (well, GPG contracts) in 'Your reputation is a commodity'
mircea_popescu: socialism, after all, is not optional anymore than water level is optional.
mircea_popescu: (what i mean is, you don't get the option ot have some here and none there. if you have some, it's everywhere)
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: I'd disagree, while liquidity is important when it comes to profiting through trading there are features that matter, i.e leverage
mircea_popescu: the trustworthyness of the operator is first. liquidity second. features maybe third tho ideally the thing should be just open and anyone can build their own features.
ben_vulpes: heh without trust there *is* no product.
mircea_popescu: "CEO MIMEX, opinions displayed do not reflect those of MIMEX" << what sense does this make ? if the opinions of the ceo are not mandatory for mimex, then what does "ceo" mean ?
mircea_popescu: and whence is mimex to get OTHER opinions from ? you got a coo ?
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: More specifically it means staying in business is more important than my morals
williamdunne: I personally I have a disdain for compliance of any sort
mircea_popescu: i know that if i'm the guy where the buck stops (usually rendered as "ceo" in anglocircles) then god damned are my opinionsmandatory for the whole organisation. wtf else are we even doing.
williamdunne: But I would prefer to be in business and doing compliance than out of business and not
mircea_popescu: ima read this noob blog later, off to eat some steak. you know what this means, ben_vulpes ? steak ? yes ?
ben_vulpes: the point is a constrasting of how people use keys (properly) and how people use trezors (improperly)
williamdunne: "I am not saying that the needs of the many will not be heard or, when they're justified needs, attended to, but I am saying that they must be channeled through their liege lords instead of democratically elected "representatives" who solicit donations from the rich by promising to protect them from the ravages of the destitute mob, and votes from the destitute mob by promising to protect them from the
williamdunne: depredations of the vile capitalists, ultimately serving only their own cronies at the expense of both those who funded their campaigns and those who voted for them. " heh
ben_vulpes: hey well mircea_popescu i'm off to have some real coffe
williamdunne: I guess what missing from it is that I still don't see why the increase in block-size, or easier access to running a semi-node is inherently bad
williamdunne: While comparisons between bitcoin and a party fully of popped-collars are fine it doesn't really answer the question
wyrdmantis: williamdunne: I appreciate the "Lego Under the Giant's Feet" header among other things. And the paypal post also :)
williamdunne: Thank you, yeah. Plenty of derpage about paypal
cazalla: ben_vulpes, first link in your "Bitcoin needs no changes to destroy your world" article is busted
mod6: trinque: going throught this 'building a gentoo ami' guide... any thoughts on the "Select system profile" section? I was about to pick #11...
trinque: mod6: I tend to use the hardened profile along with a hardened kernel
trinque: with the normal glibc, not any of the alternatives
trinque: for whatever good pax and grsecurity actually do..
mod6: alright. pretend i don't know what any of that means.
mod6: hardened/linux/amd64/no-multilib
trinque: no-multilib is probably fine if you don't intend to use any 32bit things
mod6: yeah, not on this machine. i'll probably end up creating a totally seperate 32bit instance at another time.
mod6: eek! nano keybindings!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45600 @ 0.00030493 = 13.9048 BTC [+]
trinque: mod6: of course as per earlier thread, this idea that xen guests can be secure is laughable
trinque: rules out a class of problems I guess, but certainly should still be considered enemy territory
mod6: yeah, i got that from the above convo about hypervisors. thanks.
mod6: i guess this is just my first attempt at it. this build of gentoo needs to built with nothing extra so we can build all of the rest by hand, then we'll have a clue as to what tool chain it's using and it's not using something wacky behind our backs.
mod6: "stripped down" basically.
mod6: s/wacky/unexpected/
trinque: what I'd love to see someday is a DC with no virtualization, just tinier boxes
☟︎ trinque: and some automation around sending new boxes of various sizes into service
trinque: I once worked for a company that was early (first?) in the server blade space; something like that where there's a uniform backplane which can host different configurations, maybe
mod6: this menuconfig thing ...
trinque: hitting ? will let you search for symbols
mod6: i don't even see the paravirtualized guest support option
trinque: and from that screen a number key will let you jump to a result
trinque: I am embarassed to admit that it took until this year for me to discover that
mod6: > Search (Paravirtualized)
mod6: oh, search for Xen found it.
mod6: Linux guest support (HYPERVISOR_GUEST [=n])
williamdunne: trinque: Wouldn't that be the same as any DC that offers cheap metal?
trinque: williamdunne: I tend to think there's a place for metal as cheap as a micro ec2 instance for example
williamdunne: trinque: Oh like a stack of rPis in a server enclosure?
trinque: could exist, I'm not aware if so
trinque: williamdunne: yeah aside from the rpi being a particularly heinous device
trinque: not that I don't own many of them
trinque: so then, the nice thing about ec2 is you can spin up instances of various sizes and it "just happens" rapidly
trinque: that's where having racks that can rack/unrack hardware on the fly and a uniform backplane sounds appealing
trinque: that part might be retarded, and effort might be better put into anticipating what hardware needs to be on the racks already
trinque: it's a problem that from the perspective of trying to maximize occupancy is much easier to solve with the virtualization turd
mod6: ok qq: i saved the config as 'btc-dev-gentoo64-ami.config', under the chroot: /usr/src/linux ; do I need to do anything specific to ensure that I'm compiling with this config instead of the defaulted filename '.config' ?
trinque: mod6: there may or may not be a flag to tell it to use a different config file, but by default it will use .config
trinque: typically I copy the config there, and also store it elsewhere for reuse
trinque: so you don't mrproper yourself out of a config
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62200 @ 0.00030141 = 18.7477 BTC [-]
Naphex: mod6: i'd just do the chroot thing and getting it done. doing a custom kernel won't help you much running in a hypervisor
mod6: i just copied my config to .config, w/e
mod6: Naphex: im pretty dumb.
trinque: Naphex: rolling your own gentoo is a good learning experience
Naphex: trinque: yeah but might as well just skip the kernel.
mod6: i know like, zero about gentoo.
Naphex: trinque: gentoo doesn't even have iptables defaulted, so as soon as his done he'll end up recompiling
☟︎ trinque: recompiling the kernel 100 times is sop
trinque: sure configuring a kernel is a massive pain in the dick, but at least you get more acquainted with what's in there
Naphex: trinque: i like doing it once and then just reusing the config on the same hardware :P
trinque: indeed, he's just getting started!
trinque: no sense in giving him the answers to the test
Naphex: but if you wanna learn on aws go for it. if you just want to set up chroot and start bootstrapping
Naphex: later you can keep on recompiling the kernel
trinque: Naphex: eh? stage 3 doesn't give you a kernel
Naphex: trinque: it is in portage, you do an emerge for gentoo-sources
Naphex: trinque: or hardened-sources for production
trinque: uhuh, that's not a compiled kernel
mod6: that's what i just am doing now. it's compiling from that.
trinque: you still have to configure it
trinque: or use genkernel like some kind of pedestrian
mod6: i have a chroot set up, and all that. im still not even sure how any of this will work.
mod6: but i'll just take your word for it.
Naphex: trinque: genkernel is pretty helpful on servers with firmware for building a quick initramfs
Naphex: trinque: boot time is fast anyway
trinque: that's not what's called for when learning
trinque: neither is boot time being fast relevant
Naphex: well its better to learn from best practices on these kind of things and drill down
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28941 @ 0.00030133 = 8.7208 BTC [-]
trinque: asciilifeform: reminds me, you are the top result for "critique of clojure" on my googles at least
Naphex: asciilifeform: applets are applets and security issues are all around. being a good dev implies taking care with deploying your product
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 18:29:26; mircea_popescu: not to even consider the fact that once this commodifies, the night discount goes away
trinque: asciilifeform: uh like, #shipit
Naphex: asciilifeform: and you get all sorts of added on. as well the standerd jre is pretty clean. most of the exploiting fun is on j2ee app servers and other enterprisey thingies
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126309 @ 0.00030571 = 38.6139 BTC [+] {2}
Naphex: asciilifeform: there won't be any 0days in the basic stuff. There are rarely buffers in the stack. And everything is accounted for. NIO/events/the threads etc are all safe and you don't give raw user input to them
Naphex: asciilifeform: getting any shellcode anywhere would be retarded
Naphex: asciilifeform: the languasge and jre are pretty fine. when it comes to enterprise stacks and j2ee it goes all around
Naphex: asciilifeform: and you defend from 0 days as always. running hardened and buring your servers while filltering all input
Naphex: asciilifeform: in your private encrypted lan maybe
trinque: Naphex: there's a difference between knowing of things and knowing them comprehensively
trinque: so atop your shit tower of an incomprehensible computing stack and a further incomprehensible virtual computing stack you what?
trinque: it's all probably fine because reasons?
trinque: the situation there is too complex for you or any other fool to be able to claim with certainty that it's secure
trinque: I'm not going to copy and paste the last 20 lines of logs for you
Naphex: well i have no clue what you're saying is too complex
Naphex: wtf are you talking about really?
trinque: asciilifeform: you just cast "protect" with enough manna and you're good
Naphex: asciilifeform: are your servers secure ascii?
Naphex: asciilifeform: do you do any net code? in what?
trinque: also make sure you've got an enterprise grade "encrypted LAN"
Naphex: asciilifeform: how do you defend from 0days? on the stuff you host?
Naphex: preach me the 'secure' way please
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39796 @ 0.00031407 = 12.4987 BTC [+] {3}
Naphex: asciilifeform: i do work, explain me in tehnical terms
Naphex: do you do anything to prevent?
Naphex: or protect yourself, any techniques?
trinque: "I don't want to read that much; can you tweet me about secure?"
Naphex: trinque: lol, you think encrypted lans are 'enterprise'
trinque: Naphex: you'd have to give me a coherent explanation of what you think an encrypted LAN is before I could possibly tell you what I think about it.
Naphex: trinque: if you have servers, and they are linked together maybe you're using a DC Switch
Naphex: trinque: and you might want the data transfered between them, you know encrypted
Naphex: so people don't snoop on it. maybe its private
williamdunne: Naphex: Isn't the general idea that you use end-to-end encryption not hub and spoke encryption
Naphex: so maybe you setup, ipsec.. or something to keep that channel encrypted.
Naphex: williamdunne: ipsec is end-to-end
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00031689 = 2.9312 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: Naphex: it takes some humility to be able to see that while you may be able to reason about ipsec in the abstract, neither you nor anyone else can take the current computing stack and fit it in his head
trinque: (notwithstanding that I don't see how ipsec protects some JRE app)
trinque: if you cannot fit it in your head, you are a liar if you point to it and say you know it to be secure
trinque: if we're talking about how best to patch the raft we're riding in, sure, tape the thing and hope for the best
decimation: no analysis of security can begin without identifying exactly what one wishes to keep secret, and from whom
Naphex: trinque: okay. make your point
Naphex: trinque: is it the word secuire thats the problem, s/secure/replace/ ?
Naphex: anyway, what i was saying is you take steps 'secure' or tape your stuff always, and you don't feed raw data to your apps if you can filter the input beforehand.
☟︎ Naphex: anyway. words ain't much to me and I ain't one to duke it out on irc for random bullshit
decimation: Naphex: can you sign your name under the resulting machine code - all of it - that will 'filter' and 'app' the crap coming from your socket?
Naphex: keep your stuff safe. i try to
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ... prevention of fits-in-head << can vouch for the pita of this in clojure
Naphex: decimation: yeah, you can do a lot of stuff. depending on far you want to go
Naphex: asciilifeform: which part of it was garbage?
Naphex: what's wrong with them?
ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> trinque: Oh like a stack of rPis in a server enclosure? << just start buying cheap old blades and racking them.
Naphex: yeah jvm does its job what of it?
ben_vulpes: there's nothing more undervalued right now than cheap old blades.
☟︎☟︎ Naphex: and i wasn't advocating it
Naphex: you were shiting on it
Naphex: cause it shit, and the paranthesis suck
ben_vulpes: wow i've never heard that argument made in the wild
ben_vulpes: what -- specifically -- hurts about the parens, naphex?
Naphex: ben_vulpes: the button
Naphex: and really, i hate the way they look
trinque: ben_vulpes: cheap blades for sure
decimation: blades suck ass, but you can probably buy them from junk dealers for cheap
trinque: decimation: yeah, the idea would be to replace tiny VMs I think
trinque: Naphex: consider that your gut reactions may be poorly tuned
decimation: I'm not against putting things on bare metal, just that blades lock you into a generally shitty 'blade-crate' vendor
Naphex: trinque: what do you do?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78900 @ 0.00030014 = 23.681 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: menahem: blockquotes on your blog with the email formatting is a pita to read
ben_vulpes: decimation: what do you mean 'blade-crate' vendor?
menahem: ben_vulpes totally. didnt know how to approach that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00029199 = 3.7667 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: Naphex: he runs a payment processor and web fast food order taker/relayer to fast fooderies
Naphex: trinque: how do you keep the payment data secure?
Naphex: do you worry about 0days? and attacks?
menahem: ben_vulpes ill give that a go next time.
Naphex: trinque: have you any protection in place for the payment data and the orders?
Naphex: trinque: do you consider your solutions secure?
decimation: ben_vulpes: how do you mount your blades to the rack?
ben_vulpes: usually i bolt them on directly, but i'm a barbarian and haven't actually derped much with physical servers.
decimation: are you talking about a server that fits in 1u or 2u?
ben_vulpes: you people keep mistaking me for someone who knows what he's doing or talking about
decimation: typically the word 'blade' is used for a computer that's mounted vertically in the rack, in some kind of proprietary container
decimation: usually with power, bus, network, etc supplied as part of the 'crate'
☟︎ decimation: as opposed to a 1u server you slip into the rack
ben_vulpes: <ben_vulpes> there's nothing more undervalued right now than cheap old servers << okay fixd
decimation: although in terms of raw compute power/watt they can suck
decimation: actually I wonder how many folks use an old dell/hp server hosted at home on their cable modem
decimation: and then route packets through aws just for spam protection
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 21:39:55; trinque: what I'd love to see someday is a DC with no virtualization, just tinier boxes
decimation: asciilifeform: supposedly there are moves to stuff thousands of little arm servers in a rack
decimation: but I haven't seen it become mainstream
decimation: yeah but you can't go to dell,hp, and order a crate of arm boxes (to my knowledge)
decimation: there's an obvious tension between "we sell you cheap enterprise servers" and "we only support xeon"
decimation: asciilifeform: did you notice that ti now sells msp430 with 'fram'?
decimation: msp430 actually is a decent candidate for small micro-controller of interest
decimation: there are full verilog implementations available, for future-proofing
decimation: one of the few 'open-cores' that isn't vaporware
decimation: unfortunately no floating point unit, but that isn't needed for the target market here
☟︎ trinque: Naphex: one does the best he can with the leaky raft
trinque: but that should not keep him from imagining a better vessel
trinque: very much so, have read it
gabriel_laddel: EVERYTHING you've thought on the subject has been covered.
pete_dushenski: in any event... just read your bitcoin treatise, ben_vulpes. sharp!
pete_dushenski: williamdunne mebbe you could have scoopbot_revived post to a page on your site ?
☟︎ Naphex: gabriel_laddel: hi o/ thanks for the links, what is Masamune? did you write it?
Naphex: gabriel_laddel: what is it?
pete_dushenski: williamdunne i'd appreciate this service and i'm sure i'm not alone
Naphex: gabriel_laddel: maybe other people want to know too, i will check the link
Naphex: gabriel_laddel: maybe other people wanna know and ask questions
Naphex: gabriel_laddel: can you tell me anything about it?
Naphex: you and your shitty github page
Naphex: see i don't have to care
pete_dushenski: williamdunne exactly that. thanks for taking a look at this! damn you're useful.
williamdunne: pete_dushenski: Very welcome. Not too big of a job
williamdunne: It won't cover all of history though, most of the RSS feeds only cover 5-10 posts each
☟︎ williamdunne: Although obviously it will cover all future posts
williamdunne: Ideal, well I can definitely get that done, not a big job. I'll see if there is any standardized way to get RSS to provide a full history
menahem: pete_dushenski ive got a good assistant now.. freed up some time. ;) and agreed, my bad on the >>, it's an email thread.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform i seem to recall '$1mn' being tossed around about 10 years ago
pete_dushenski: menahem just something to edit out. blogs aren't chiseled in stone y'know ;)
menahem: pete_dushenski def, ill try <pre> as per ben_vulpes reco. always a work in progress. :)
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform ugh 'maintenance contracts'. perhaps the only thing more blood-sucking than a mortgage
menahem: pete_dushenski maintenance contracts - no good ? i love selling them. :)
menahem: some things need the luv, or they deteriorate. much like buildings, roads, etc. much won't sustain without the maintenance.
pete_dushenski: !v assbot:pete_dushenski.rate.williamdunne.1:bbe7dc99e44de364bb27d4745e33db2b80fc3d8da77a371c288223af85f3c58b
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for williamdunne with note: responsive and energetic.
pete_dushenski: !rate menahem 2 had drinks, had coffee, finally knocked sense into him.
pete_dushenski: !v assbot:pete_dushenski.rate.menahem.2:ff2b6568a2919406cdfcef2c2fbd6c6c89985e454a358859584b18a3b7613147
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for menahem from 1 to 2 with note: had drinks, had coffee, finally knocked sense into him.
menahem: lol! sense you knocked into me indeed. much appreciated!
menahem: well, I read your new poem
menahem: "If I can keep it together when all and everyone
menahem: Are losing their cool and hating me,
menahem: If I can trust my WoT until my time is done,
menahem: And be the Pete the world requires of me"
☟︎ menahem: lol, love is only increasing ! you being you (and like others in the wot) is bringing out the best in people.. even though they may not realize it this moment.