mircea_popescu: the reason isis is such a problem is that they're not even comparable, but homologuous.
BingoBoingo: Aztalan (modeling on Sinaloa) is not the "Homicide da Union" but a business like any other government.
mircea_popescu: better than any government. because, again, laissez faire and rape-y. can't argue with that.
trinque: most Texans would protest that they'd fit well with Mexico, but I begin to see it
trinque: people tend to protest the things that are most true, anyway
mircea_popescu: i wonder, incidentally, how, when or if will the us-style feminist conceptualize that her notions of gender identity and female rights imposes a significant cost on the community, and as a result ensures a) its downfal and b) the mass rape of most females and some males dumb enough to have participated, deserved, as spoils of war.
shinohai: It seems a little too complicated to do what it does.
shinohai: Why jump through all dem hoops
mircea_popescu: maybe not even then. "socialism was never really tried" etc.
trinque: mircea_popescu: it does seem to be a sort of suicidality
trinque: many of those types that I've known in Portland clearly hate themselves, and engage in all kinds of self-destructive behavior
mircea_popescu: "I've mentioned this countless times but I think it's obvious that true consensus should be coming from the largest, decentralized group in the Bitcoin space: its users around the world." << how the fuck is a bunch of circlejerking derps, who don't even REALISE that google's been feeding them results tailored to their own stupidity for a decade, who think wikipedia is a source of knowledge and whose enjoyment mostly co
mircea_popescu: mes from hanging out with groups of similar retards strictly to farm fake agreement, DECENTRALIZED
mircea_popescu: it is THE MOST centralized thing in both theory and practice. and probably the source of all others.
mircea_popescu: certainly the source of the state in all its broken implementations to date, from nazi socialism and soviet socialism all the way to obama and peron populisms.
mircea_popescu: (the two are so strictly undistinct... omfg. us took 200 years to catch up to post-ww2 argentina)
mircea_popescu: anyway. no, the "community" is not decentralized now, could not be decentralized in the future.
mircea_popescu: the notion that the group of redditards is "decentralized" is not unlike the proposition that salem at the time of the witch trials was "good christians".
trinque: thestringpuller: I don't see the need to bolt a mac gui to gpg
trinque: actcually makes for more cumbersome use than at the command line
thestringpuller: trinque: i installed it to use the command line tools. it's kinda akin to installing xcode to have clang to run a gcc like thing...
thestringpuller: didn't know if they committed to like a mac branch of gpg or something or its just all gui shit
BingoBoingo: "@petertoddbtc Why a /dev/ and not a call to the kernel for such matters? @EliteRaspberrie @dchest @zooko"
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 256.88, vol: 8801.72508523 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 254.371, vol: 4521.57078 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 258.45, vol: 9933.81721964 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 265.0, vol: 21.37730152 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 257.252976, vol: 11291.98050000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 258.6391, vol: 85.6495071 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 257.115059889, vol: 27.43535912 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> not like fat, emboldened sc4mz0rz are good for anything << Butuchyag
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.00075671 = 21.8689 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: Two consecutive days Qntra has been at the top of /v/bitcoin but to be fair this time it took all of 4 upvotes
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It trolls Ycombinator's reddit. Otherwise worthless. I derp on it and egg on the controversy with dirty quarentine browser
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00074836 = 24.0972 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No reason to bother with the voat cloudflare wall at all if you don't care to afflict the stupid
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00073639 = 15.1328 BTC [-] {4}
wilbns: Sorry, was saying "not true" in relation to the link.
wilbns: That number counts users who have multiple wallet identifiers, and also algorithmically created via the API.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> could we instead accept 1% more fat each year ? << No. It breaks the BritneyChain
mircea_popescu: ;;google trei grasulii se leganau pe o pinza de paianjen...
wilbns: It's annoying, because there are some good and kind people who work at Blockchain.info, but there are some "not right" things going on at the top.
BingoBoingo: wilbns: Blockchain.info went rogue soon after they took investment from the wrong crowd. Irreparible now.
wilbns: One time I was asked by Peter Smith to find early charts of PayPal total payments volume to compare to Blockchain Total Payments volume. Was told by Peter Smith that him and Nic Cary were in Silicon Valley meeting with former PayPal executives and venture capitalists (this was before they secured their raise), to whom they were comparing early Blockchain
wilbns: growth rate as being something even more rapid and promising than PayPal total payments volume. It was then that I realized there were instances where people were potentially being mislead that the Blockchain total payments volume was actually Blockchain.info total payments volume.
mircea_popescu: i do not credit this "nice people working for scammers" theory.
mircea_popescu: no reprieve. nic carey used to be a good guy, he's as scummy as any scumbag now. this is his doing, and not my problem.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00073227 = 8.7872 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: One time Ryan X Charles before he adopted that name approached my IRL name to set up St Louis Bitcoin meetup and I told him I don't want to meet the sort of people that would live in St Louis an share his kind of interest in Bitcoin.
BingoBoingo: He was in a physics phd program at one of the St Louis universities before he went to BitPay. At the time he contacted me I think he was still using a slave name.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: (nothing at all to do with 'delphi') << this didn't stop me from looking up delphi of the 90's lol
mircea_popescu: im going to end up the english language's foremost hack.
BingoBoingo still has machines somewhere vulnerable to N.vir
phf: being able to write pascal in delphi was like the right of passage for moscows programmer boys. i thought i was the shit with my dozen of delphi programmers until good folk at msu cmc unix room gently explained to me that i'm an idiot, told me to install freebsd and gave a copy of "programming in c language" by podbelsky and fomin. probably one the earliest books i've purchased still on my bookshelf
phf: ha, i remember we opted to use turbopascal for some programming olympiada and made a terrible mess out of it. basically were expect to come in some place, but we couldn't even finish the program
imsaguy: nada. just censoring people and stuff.
BingoBoingo: Not bad. Just stuffing cotton towels in social media toilets, taking a shit, and flushing them.
imsaguy: Its amazing the amount of vitriol that is out there amongst people that probably don't even know the real difference between the two forks.
imsaguy: yes, amazing assbot is amazing.
imsaguy: ;;sell 1 amazing company @ 1 bajillion dollars
gribble: Error: 'company' is not a valid price input.
trinque: anybody ever use an oldschool tracker for music production?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36900 @ 0.00072019 = 26.575 BTC [-] {4}
trinque: Renoise is a decent modern equivalent imo
trinque: I've never killed renoise, but anyhow, my actual complaint is that I can't call arbitrary chunks of noise a function and reuse them
trinque: must be a rectangle including all instruments
trinque: well fuck you renoise, I want just the drums and bass in this part
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell btcdrak you disconnected so actually will have to revoice self when this message is recieved
trinque: I'm starting to lean towards wanting a programming language for this (yes lisp)
trinque: for example I commonly want to take a lick and move it around a scale some
trinque: that's a function with a root note and a scale as arguments
BingoBoingo: The only piece of "music software" I truly liked was "Noteworthy Composer"
trinque: I actually wrote what I describe above in python
trinque: because the python was getting in the way of how I wanted to express it in language, of course
trinque: I was utterly ignorant of lisp at the time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13650 @ 0.0007142 = 9.7488 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00074028 = 3.0351 BTC [+]
phf: asciilifeform: i know right. none of us used it before, and really were so cocky we durped till last moment. it's my only and very vivid memory of turbopascal
phf: it's probably same year, that i was switched to freebsd, so never actually programmed for dos. i did write a tsr to do a memory dump on a keypress few years later
phf: used it to cheat in games heh (i think there were a dozen of variations of that idea)
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20933 @ 0.00072262 = 15.1266 BTC [-]
mats: >When an individual applies for a loan, the lender examines the credit ratings of members of the individual’s social network who are connected to the individual through authorized nodes. If the average credit rating of these members is at least a minimum credit score, the lender continues to process the loan application. Otherwise, the loan application is
☟︎ wilbns: ah, the grey area of profiling.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5017 @ 0.00072262 = 3.6254 BTC [-]
mats: nothing can go wrong
wilbns: 25 years ago there was no Facebook and a fledgling Internet - many people were still using a BBS or interacting with one another using AOL, CompuServe or Prodigy. A smartphone did not exist. It will be interesting in another 25 years to see the path of where things will go. I wonder if we were teleported there tomorrow if we would recognize it.
wilbns: ...and what other things will be derived from social networks.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00070927 = 5.7451 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 02:39:32; mats: >When an individual applies for a loan, the lender examines the credit ratings of members of the individual’s social network who are connected to the individual through authorized nodes. If the average credit rating of these members is at least a minimum credit score, the lender continues to process the loan application. Otherwise, the loan application is
mats: if social networks as they exist nao are still a thing i will eat a bullet
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 02:35:23; phf: used it to cheat in games heh (i think there were a dozen of variations of that idea)
mats: 'in another 25 years'
wilbns: mats: thinking it is going to be three-dimensional, where you interact w/ your social network wearing some sort of oculus rift-themed devise in an alternate reality. people will choose that over this one. and then many will truly become ambivalent to things that are happening in "real" life
mats: sure, for people that don't need to work to live
wilbns: mats: people will be employed to execute roles in cyberspace. telecommuting and working from home is the first step.
☟︎ trinque: the only thing I do via social media is barf articles at family in the hopes that they read
trinque: specifically, seeing your meatwot at all times on some device...
mats: i imagine modern civilization will decay too quickly for wilbns universe to materialize
trinque: imagine that's your cousin, and now your brain implant means you have to see that all day
wilbns: asciilifeform: thanks for the tip!
phf: what was that bad russian scifi dood, who did sort of like a hodgepodge of cyberpunk literature
wilbns: mats: agreed, that is the challenge - what exactly is happening in the status quo. food shortages, never before seen droughts, threat of a credit bubble collapsing, the middle easten on the verge and russia/china moving further away in their relations w/ europe and the us each new day. what is next.
trinque: asciilifeform | trinque: which is a catgurl or the like. << LOL
mats: dollar collapse is whats next
mats: the rest of the world failing around you is the early warning system
BingoBoingo: Welcome to the Terror Dome, er... Terra Foam
wilbns: mats: maybe. there was an interesting quote you just made me think of - "a recession is when your neighbor loses his or her job. a depression is when you lose yours"
wilbns: ah that's a good quote, so true
phf: asciilifeform: have you read his чапаев и пустота?
BingoBoingo: Last week I read a lot of "California beat the drought" stories based on more people in Compton working at McDonalds
mats: welp, i like a game of 'catch the falling knife' as well as anybody
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00070376 = 13.7937 BTC [-] {3}
phf: asciilifeform: yeah, gave the english version to my girl to read
mats: i am still unprepared to flee to .cn
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15453 @ 0.00070799 = 10.9406 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mats: usg, like wheat (the latter as described in mircea_popescu's essay 'when you become wheat') thrives in a half-destroyed world << Corn loves raw manure, but wheat demand you first light the manure and then till it into the field
phf: first thing she asked what's up with russians and schwarzenegger
wilbns: it does seem the dollar is someone in store for a beating, perhaps that is what will stop interest rates from rising or enable more QE to continue
wilbns: sheesh i don't know what's up w/ my spelling.
BingoBoingo: <mats> i am still unprepared to flee to .cn << We all have to contemplate destinations other than what we though were Door #1
BingoBoingo: <wilbns> sheesh i don't know what's up w/ my spelling. << I'm drunk. It seriously affects everyone's spelling.
mats: folks the world over are buying USD as their own currencies get devalued by USG mismanagement
mats: this is what is presumably stopping interest rates from going up
mats: i hope my dollars will still be good for renminbi exchange when the time comes
phf: asciilifeform: she enjoyed it, and picked up on some subtleties, in any case more then i expected, but i think it was good enough for first reading
mats: or, you know, the buttcoins, but i dunno whether we'll ever win the war at this rate
BingoBoingo: <mats> or, you know, the buttcoins, but i dunno whether we'll ever win the war at this rate << War was won.
mats: asciilifeform: nope, its at least five years in the distance
mats: for all practical purposes i am illiterate and have almost no meatwot there
BingoBoingo: Given 2015 so far Hearnia must have planned to actually release XTCoin the first weekend of September. He ended up jumping the gun because USG pinoy spamzors. We won.
☟︎ phf: i gave her "kniga oborotnya" and she concluded that the book was dull and poorly paced, which is something i agree with, probably my least favorite p book
wilbns: it seems fiat currencies will continue to exist for many generations to come, perhaps actual paper form will deminish, but an electronic register or display of some number of dollars for whoever the viewer is, will carry with it some semblance of wealth
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 13-02-2014 01:31:58; asciilifeform: ifetimes some tin-pot pseudo-nationalist leader will print up ugly slips of paper with pictures of dead people, Masonic symbols and big numbers, and attempt to charge people for using them as a medium of exchange in all transactions, and your great-grandchildren need to know, from an early age, that it is a scam. It is an official scvam, backed up by the threat of violence, but it is still a scam."
BingoBoingo: Hearn lost so bad "unidentified" turrorist bombed expat Thailand today. Presumably to try to get Goat and scare people with insulfation faith in USG out of defecting.
mats: asciilifeform: things haven't degenerated enough in us for me to consider returning
mats: can't do computing work if i can't even read the damned terminals
BingoBoingo: mats: What if your USG designated FEMA number puts your camp in southwest Missouri?
wilbns: these new derivative markets that are forming out of distributed / shared ledger technology could perhaps be the new stage for some form of electronic economy that will exist on a trillion/quadrillion level. the average person may only perceive that kind of scale at the end of the year, when milk costs $10
mats: BingoBoingo: plz break me out, there is a bitcoin reward in it for you
BingoBoingo: mats: First I'll have to know you are in. Second I will have to not be in Chicago fema camp (because FEMA must take us to the places we hate most)
phf: mats: i have a former colleague from a financial firm, who moved to hk recently, he's chinese, but i take it his mandarin is poor and cantonese non-existent. he's working for an english speaking company there and slowly getting his language up to speed. his reasoning for the move was "this boat is leaking"
mats: phf: i have the same plan, but presumably further behind in my career than him
BingoBoingo: mats: What though is stopping you from moving to Aztalan?
mats: BingoBoingo: a state park?
wilbns: asciilifeform: ah yes, thanks for the link - imagining one day in fact how silly it will be to hold up a $100 bill, or to go to an ATM. perhaps only those in "emerging markets" or "third world countries" will use such types of antiquated technologies and means of exchange.
wilbns: (note sarcasm regarding ATMs and emerging markets)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mno << /me been drunk for a while
BingoBoingo: <wilbns> asciilifeform: ah yes, thanks for the link - imagining one day in fact how silly it will be to hold up a $100 bill, or to go to an ATM. perhaps only those in "emerging markets" or "third world countries" will use such types of antiquated technologies and means of exchange. << I personally plan on eventually only every trading in an out of Bitcoin with year's worth of whatever the local bottlecaps happen to be
mats: why would zetas trust a chinese american citizen
phf: mats: he was a junior at the company, so not much of a career. i think the objective is to work for a company that has offices at multiple locations. when i worked for another bank that will remain nameless, the opportunity was always implied from the beginning. in fact a lot of places like that love people with no local attachments, because means easy and cheap relocation.
mats: if for my computing skills... not good enough at pwning arbitrary systems to be useful (yet)
mats: if to carry rifle, plenty of mexicans for that task already
wilbns: BingoBoingo: that would be a nice outcome from where we are now, being able to move in and out so easily. hopefully by that point there will also be less volatility to the downside in relation to the bottlecaps.
mats: phf: welp, my eyeballs are peeled for opportunities, am actually looking for interesting work atm
phf: mats: where are you located?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00071589 = 11.8838 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: wilbns: As far as you need be concerned though I have less than a proper transaction fee in BTC.
BingoBoingo also looking for fiat paying work, but only in positions where the only economic consequence of my employment would be occupying an already fungible position
mircea_popescu: clueless people haver a lot more sense than to starve.
wilbns: BingoBoingo: roger that
mircea_popescu: (in proper terms : clueless people don't have what to delude themselves with)
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 02:40:26; mats: A+
[\\\]: someone say bacon?
[\\\]: I've b een around, "censoring" people.
mircea_popescu: no, dirty little helper was a lengthy collection of various tidbits.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15995 @ 0.0007173 = 11.4732 BTC [+]
phf: asciilifeform: i didn't get my hands on one of those until early 2000s, hence had to write my own. i vaguely recall a collection of tsr on a hacker tools cd that i bought in a metro perehod :), but at the time i somehow didn't pay enough attention to them
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-08-2015#1241775 << the point here being (perhaps unfamiliar to some readers) that wheat is not a sort of plant that survives, except in particular situations : say post volcanic eruption, when everything's been burned down. then the weed makes a quick colonisation, because of its disproportionate seeds.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 03:04:29; asciilifeform: mats: usg, like wheat (the latter as described in mircea_popescu's essay 'when you become wheat') thrives in a half-destroyed world
mircea_popescu: but then in a few years it's drownerd out by more sanely balanced plants.
mircea_popescu: it should be noted that the civilisation that chose to feed itself on wheat, a plant famous for and a plant whose only strategy is, to overinvest in its progeniture
phf: asciilifeform: mine worked by doing a core dump on key press, and then you had to do a binary diff on a set of those. i kind of realized that i could put a diff/search algo into the tsr, but that was beyond my algorithm construction abilities at the time
BingoBoingo: d-kansas is refered to as Arkansas in the common tongue, grows rice
wilbns: yes, riceland, stuttgart
BingoBoingo: When alternatives always default to levo and dexo as options over trans and cis for the lulz
BingoBoingo: But dex-Kensaw civilized. Levo-Kensaw barbarians General Quatrill was more than right to burn
BingoBoingo never got more twitter mentions than when trolling after Mizzou beat Kansas in Baseketballs
BingoBoingo: Land that flat, covered in carbohydrates was made to host a great fire for the glory of Kismet
BingoBoingo offer that yes, Kismet is supposed to be the white handmaiden of Satan keeping true Africa down, but Whitey is violent to no one else like his is to his fellow white man
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell shinohai weren't you going to submit a qntra???
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell Belxjander Pls fix your connection for the love of fuck
wilbns: it is also challenging the fear of god society and some religious institutions instill in people in the area. originally from arkansas and lived there 22 years, experienced first-hand. was sent to religious camp in branson 7 years in a row. bizarre at times. btw, no offense to anyone in here's religious beliefs, none of my business. just putting forth an
wilbns: observation and personal experience.
BingoBoingo: wilbns: Thing is... While there are a lot of goups in that area which engage in such extreme sectarianism... Some on the girls are hot and the region is vulnerable to conquest by actual people.
BingoBoingo: wilbns: The big thing is such sectarians are more competitive with other similar factions than they are with any outsider groups.
mircea_popescu: wilbns i think if anyone in here's religious beliefs managed to survive in here for this long they'll be fine.
wilbns: BingoBoingo, yes, noticed that too - until someone from another religion flies a plane into a building.
BingoBoingo: Joe Stack seems under appreciated in Dex-Kensaw
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18660 @ 0.00072755 = 13.5761 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: bried survey of dex-kensaw also suggests many local with farms due to the substantial median size of holding possess "air tractor" which could be loaded with kerosene instead of monsanto for Joe Stack++
BingoBoingo: But perhaps General Quantrill should have burned Little Rock as he did Lawrence Levo-Kensaw
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4440 @ 0.00072755 = 3.2303 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.00074027 = 6.2923 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19265 @ 0.00072892 = 14.0426 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27385 @ 0.00071888 = 19.6865 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: hey, which anglo nut made a 50 copy edition of his crappy poetry and jacked off on the lot ? was it burroughs ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00074111 = 20.6029 BTC [+] {3}
ag3nt_zer0: nothing quite like curling up with a nice bowl of fresh buttery popcorn, a blankey, and I Am Cait Ep. 3... should be a community event though, like a trip to the traveling wagon freak show - alas, my fellow americans seemed to have lost their ability to be astonished along with their sense of humor... I happily gaze at the four horsethingys (or is it taped?) baphomet myself...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3620 @ 0.00073753 = 2.6699 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20875 @ 0.00073744 = 15.3941 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 03:10:43; BingoBoingo: Given 2015 so far Hearnia must have planned to actually release XTCoin the first weekend of September. He ended up jumping the gun because USG pinoy spamzors. We won.
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 03:10:37; asciilifeform: mats is originally from cn ?
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 03:11:33; wilbns: it seems fiat currencies will continue to exist for many generations to come, perhaps actual paper form will deminish, but an electronic register or display of some number of dollars for whoever the viewer is, will carry with it some semblance of wealth
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3604 @ 0.00073753 = 2.6581 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00073044 = 17.2019 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18450 @ 0.00072295 = 13.3384 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23433 @ 0.00071954 = 16.861 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18500 @ 0.00071569 = 13.2403 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6268 @ 0.00070343 = 4.4091 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Logged on 17-08-2015 20:50:22; BingoBoingo: In other news one interview for one job today seemed to go meh, the other job's interview seemed to go well. Hoping I can get that regular fiat income to start standing up srs noedz
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00069854 = 10.3035 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00072009 = 2.8444 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15709 @ 0.00071166 = 11.1795 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.0007278 = 16.5211 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: "Under the plan, landowners would have 30 days to consider and negotiate a one-time state offer, while officials simultaneously prepare to take the land by forced sale if owners declined to sell. "Negotiations to continue in parallel with eminent domain proceedings," the plan notes."
mircea_popescu: "you can either sell it at prevailing market values, or we'll take it at prevailing market values".
punkman: and nobody will use all those spiffy guns they like to polish and fondle
mircea_popescu: you know, opposing eminent domain for stuff like this is a little nutty.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44100 @ 0.00073619 = 32.466 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: what, train's gonna go around old man joe's property forever more because 180 years ago there lived a curmudgeon ?
mircea_popescu: i mean, it's one thing when they were simply stealing property to give to others who they figured "would pay more tax". that's fungible. but this isn't - train gotta go straight.
punkman: this is not a train though
chetty: well knowing cali they are probably picking routes thru the best crop land, and offering a penny an acre
chetty: or, haha, the routes go thru the 'red' areas on the map
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20726 @ 0.00073753 = 15.286 BTC [+]
punkman: so just let them destroy productive farms and dry out the delta, so they can water some piece of desert down south?
mircea_popescu: chetty actually there have been "unjust enrichment" suits against states/townships on stuff like that.
mircea_popescu: punkman that's an entirely different argument tho. i have nfi what they're doing / dun care so much, but anyway. the fiat consensus is and has been, for the past ~800 years, that you can't oppose land ownership to road development.
assbot: Logged on 17-08-2015 23:41:30; pete_dushenski: 'virtual mining' blog. same kids who pitted me against roger ver a week or two back.
punkman: mircea_popescu: around here they can and do oppose, but everything is lilliputian-scale compared to California
punkman: "According to business registration information, Ruihai's two largest shareholders are Li Liang and Shu Zheng, who hold 55 percent and 45 percent of the company's shares respectively. But as of Sunday, Li remained missing, while Shu told the media that he was only a grassroots public servant, and he lent his identity card to a friend when Ruihai was registered."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00073262 = 14.2861 BTC [-]
shinohai: hanbot: liked the build notes writeup. Almost made me want to install it on Ubuntu.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36786 @ 0.00073755 = 27.1315 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00072871 = 22.7358 BTC [-] {4}
shinohai: Respite from my fear of dying?
punkman: you'll get invited to the best parties!
shinohai: Pffft ... #bitcoin-assets *is* the best party
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29203 @ 0.00073862 = 21.5699 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00072302 = 3.3259 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00074045 = 5.6644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16120 @ 0.00071743 = 11.565 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22100 @ 0.00073274 = 16.1936 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00070722 = 9.5475 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: ^ next she should go take on 4chan racists
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00069854 = 7.8586 BTC [-]
jurov: and then on #b-a chauvinists :DDDD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00069766 = 10.3951 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: "because it sounds like something he might have said."
mircea_popescu: no, it doesn't. it sounds about as much like voltaire as any other bit of usian drivel.
mircea_popescu: maybe they should petition voltaire's sponsors too. until he becomes the "hip", "cool" figure they want him to be or something.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28250 @ 0.00069598 = 19.6614 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: da fuck is wrong with these schmucks, anyway. "herpitty-derp, i wish to push a widely unpopular, nutty agenda. obviously the best way to do this is to ask people interested in selling more to side with me. because logically if those racist white supremacists actually boycott walmart until it puts the lot of us in a concentration camp, walmart totally won't. because hurr."
punkman: "if the spend amount has a lot of trailing zeros, eg, 2.34000000 BTC, then have change outputs that also have the same amount of trailing zeros. Otherwise, it's obvious which one is the spend." << anyone can explain this?
mircea_popescu: (which is why shithead services like coinbase don't even implement the whole 8 digits. their 2010ish understanding of "de-anonymization technicues."
jurov: punkman where is that from? some idiotic service that reinvented numbers processing again?
jurov: oh i think i get it
punkman: isn't it all in integer satoshis?
mircea_popescu: dude. if you have a 8.5465466 input and you spend 2.34 out of it, your outputs will look like 2.34000000 anbd 6.116574567
jurov: if you send payment rounded to N places, the change should be also rounded to N places (and rest to fees, presumably)
kakobrekla: its not like you cant split that full int further down yourself.
kakobrekla presumes people here do their own ass wiping
kakobrekla: hammer is retarded only if you hit yourself on the head. must use nails.
kakobrekla: anyway, a tool can be retarded, its the very definition of it ; "you are a such a tool". see?
☟︎ chetty: isn't a tool something that is used? So its the user that would be retarded, no?
jurov: i think it was meant that way, "someone is using you".. which is something else than "you're retard"
jurov: but hey this is internet, we need no fkn nuances :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16204 @ 0.00069383 = 11.2428 BTC [-]
jurov: you know it's not true
jurov: many ppl using windows are not retards, just completely unaware there's a better way to use a computer
☟︎ kakobrekla: if ascii logs on to win machine, win machine still sucks!
jurov: and what were you saying?
chetty: haha, I suppose there are tools with no redeeming value
funkenstein_: a lot of old cars overheat, they should make a law against temperature sensors which display in the dashboard
funkenstein_: kill the messenger. new technology, same broken psychology
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43400 @ 0.00071463 = 31.0149 BTC [+] {3}
funkenstein_: "As -The Virginian- established the cowboy in our literary culture, so did Hernandez' -Martin Fierro- become the archetype of the gaucho, the independent man of the pampas.
funkenstein_: Fiercely individual, distrustful of the corruption of the cities and the law, following his own code of honor, he is in the great tradition of the romantic figure"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.00073639 = 29.3083 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44050 @ 0.00074025 = 32.608 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29800 @ 0.00071912 = 21.4298 BTC [-]
punkman: shinohai: lol'd at the televangelists asking for donations to buy a jet
punkman: or that guy saying donate $1000 and god will wipe out your credit card debt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00074045 = 9.5518 BTC [+]
assbot: Jilted woman gets revenge on cheating boyfriend by setting his crotch on fire | Daily Mail Online ... (
http://bit.ly/1hKrFC8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11301 @ 0.00071855 = 8.1203 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00071502 = 13.5139 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26950 @ 0.00073296 = 19.7533 BTC [+]
shinohai: BingoBoingo: are those bsd instructions of yours still valid ?
BingoBoingo: They aren't complete, because I accidentalied a lot of it
☟︎☟︎ punkman: "The previous CoinWallet test only achieved about 15% of its output because its servers crashed."
☟︎ punkman: they take 0.5% fee per tx, lel
funkenstein_: So if I hit you, and you don't fall down, that means you aren't very tough.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00073296 = 3.9946 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Not connected to a single XT node at the moment
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00073615 = 7.0302 BTC [+] {2}
Naphex: BingoBoingo: amazon seems to be supporting it hard lol
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Naphex: You know the pseudonode thing runs well in an AWS micro
Naphex: BingoBoingo: hehe as if it isn't obvious enough ~240 nodes same time deployment since 17 aug
BingoBoingo: Might as well start running pseudo nodes over a Nigerian satellite connection
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 166821 @ 0.00069397 = 115.7688 BTC [-] {7}
Naphex: well i guess it's time to ip block all XT nodes
Naphex: take that hearn, ha! ;]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5153 @ 0.00071577 = 3.6884 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: 'virtual mining news' doesn't look like anything other than a scam, and it turns out it is !
pete_dushenski: well then, tip o' the cap to joseph young, the real author
pete_dushenski: though why the piece of shit cointelegraph wordpress implementation never sent me a pingback, while 'virtual mining' did, is another story
assbot: Asking your friend to bang your prospective wife, and other silly ideas. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1EAh2GW )
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell williamdunne ^ this was posted last night, and scoopbot_revived didn't see it.
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 09:01:50; mircea_popescu: ahaha that pete pic!
pete_dushenski: cazalla: but good work on finding that original article !
assbot: How A Bigger Blockchain Is Less Secure And Why Block Size Ain’t Gonna Increase Any Time Soon | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1EAhvc8 )
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 02:55:17; wilbns: mats: people will be employed to execute roles in cyberspace. telecommuting and working from home is the first step.
pete_dushenski: lol i kinda like imagining danielpbarron with an army of click slaves.
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: you ever read "Ready Player 1"? Eulora will probably be that.
pete_dushenski: "Gavin has done more for bitcoin in a few years than you could do in a life time. 2003 128mb in my phone, 2006 1Gb on my phone. 2010 32gb on my phone, 2015, 64 gb on my phone. And your telling me raising the block size limit from 1 to 20 mb is an issue?"
☟︎ pete_dushenski: ^from comments on ~original~ cointelegraph pete v. ver article
chetty: isnt bigger always better? /kidding
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14794 @ 0.00069859 = 10.3349 BTC [-] {3}
lobbes: ;;later tell asciilifeform regarding lobbesbot; I am going to try 'upgrading' my bot to a more recent fork. According to #supybot, there was a rewrite of the RSS plugin that *should* address that issue of ratcheting back
punkman: lobbes, are you using limnoria?
lobbes: nope, still using supybot ;/
lobbes: going to try and move to limnoria, maybe tonight
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64250 @ 0.00069231 = 44.4809 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00074045 = 11.1808 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30797 @ 0.00074045 = 22.8036 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: ;;sell 1 Apple Cinema Display 30" at "450 / {bitstamplast}" BTC. Aluminum (A1083) M9179LL/A, 2560x1600, dual-link DVI, dual-firewire, dual-usb ports, power supply, power cable, mint condition. Buyer pays shipping from Canada.
gribble: Error: 'Cinema' is not a valid price input.
pete_dushenski: "if you call the library's IOServiceOpen function with an invalid owningTask parameter, a kernel-level IOUserClient will be passed a NULL pointer for the calling task. This pointer makes its way through more of the OS and is used to locate a variable in memory where a bit is set. By controlling the page of memory at address zero, an attacker can direct where these bits are set, and thus manipulate the kernel's m
pete_dushenski: emory, and eventually seize control of execution with full kernel-level privileges." << affecting mac osx 10.9 and 10.10
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00073255 = 8.3511 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16608 @ 0.00074045 = 12.2974 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8261 @ 0.00074188 = 6.1287 BTC [+]
punkman: assbot should reply "ooooooold" when that happens
pete_dushenski: jesus christ on a cross that girl is, what, 15 going on 5
kakobrekla: stress network meh, thanks for derping in the history of everything forever and no way they heard of testnet.
☟︎ pete_dushenski: "like, like, negative energy, like, like, scribble doodle, like, like, air."
punkman: girl's an actress, she was pretty good if you ask me
kakobrekla: anyway, from 'coinwallet's behavior we can conclude that tx fees are waaaaay to low on 'main'net.
ascii_field: then again, ~threatening~ to spam is... free
trinque: bwahaha I just went on a tirade in #gentoo-hardened about "30-day backlog"
kakobrekla: really it prolly should be more expensive than _ANY_ other way of paying.
☟︎ ascii_field: kakobrekla: idk, dropping bullion from a nuke bomber with fighter escort, flying through five usg vassal states, probably ought to cost more
chetty: <ascii_field> kakobrekla: idk, dropping bullion from a nuke bomber with fighter escort, flying through five usg vassal states, probably ought to cost more// isnt that the same thing?
trinque: I thought it was a nuclear blimp
pete_dushenski: robert tilton really is doing "god's work". dude scammed john oliver out of $319 over a period of 7 months.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00073172 = 8.3782 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20839 @ 0.00073172 = 15.2483 BTC [-]
punkman: get up, get out, you lazy lout // get into your working clothes // up to your knees in oil and grease // and a grindstone to your nose
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47460 @ 0.00073188 = 34.735 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00073278 = 10.7719 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: lmao all the fucktarded jokes. "who makes the byline of a crypto book start with the workd unlocking?" "o'reilly executives"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3394 @ 0.00072396 = 2.4571 BTC [-]
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: recently, for lulz, i collected warez scans of every published book i could find with 'bitcoin' in the title
ascii_field: the least retarded was the one by wiley financial press
ascii_field: (it was still pretty heavy on the retardation, but not an outright maculature)
ascii_field: contained, for instance, a mostly-accurate description of blockchain mechanics
ascii_field: (but equally long bloviations re: crackpot altcoins)
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 11:41:25; kakobrekla: anyway, a tool can be retarded, its the very definition of it ; "you are a such a tool". see?
mircea_popescu: better, you see, eat soap wrapped in my own country's flag than cheese in a plain white rapper.
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 11:47:11; jurov: many ppl using windows are not retards, just completely unaware there's a better way to use a computer
mike_c: "However, it will make it prohibitively expensive," << a quarter of a penny is prohibitively expensive?
mircea_popescu: well... the government of the us is paying them to derp on reddit. why is the government of bitcoin not paying them to use bitcoin ?
ascii_field: mike_c: for 'beoble', and for sp4mz0rz who want to take shits of infinite tonnage into our collective mouths for free - yes.
punkman: mike_c, well if you only have 2 pennies
trinque does his best anal-child squeal of frustration for mike_c
mircea_popescu: clearly bitcoin government is bad and they should hold a vote.
mircea_popescu: "oh but mp, the money got here specifically because undemocratic"
mike_c: punkman: hehe, yeah. I will cry for their inability to push their dust around.
mircea_popescu: "yeah... like everywhere else ? the us got rich by being a republic, not by being a democracy. the soviets got rich under tyranny and then the demobureau fucked it up"
mircea_popescu: anyway, to the expensive topic : it is an inconvenient but nevertheless incontrovertible fact that the price point for bitcoin tx is VASTLY above the pricepoint for "visa tx" or "bank tx".
mike_c: "The fact that the XT fork hasn't occurred yet is ridiculous," CoinWallet said. << I do so love the tears of rage and frustration.
mircea_popescu: the reason is that bitcoin tx offers some specific services neither visa nor wire offer.
mircea_popescu: so, no, the price of steak is not going to be considered by comparison to "price of food" defined as "mcshitty menu".
mircea_popescu: because steak isn't that. and so... $5k a transaction is no big deal. if you don't care to have your shit verified by the entire world, go send a wire, at $500 or w/e it will be by then
ascii_field: (laugh, but cost for smallish wires to, e.g., ru from usa, is typically 100%)
punkman: I'll just send you the priv keys, "you move it"
mircea_popescu: most of the regularization of the tx price of bitcoin will be done by usd being forced to devaluate in comparison
punkman: well I'd certainly not pay 0.5btc to move 2btc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18050 @ 0.00072369 = 13.0626 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: punkman there are good (and mathematical provable) reasons for which tx fees will never in average exceed ~0.001
btcdrak: mircea_popescu do you know the guys at quedex.net?
jurov: and why all people we hold in high esteem, know how to use women right.. right?
mircea_popescu: iirc some guy here was doing some pro bono work for the,
btcdrak: I'm on a google hangout with them right now, just checking.
mircea_popescu: jurov "use" is not really the word there, and plenty of people we did or do hold in high esteem don't know how to use computers, or got a war wound.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.00071741 = 6.098 BTC [-]
jurov: and statistics are? all people with iq > 120 use lisp?
mircea_popescu: "this guy looks like his next door neighbour rather than his father ergo inheritance is wrong"
jurov: and live in happy marriage or polyamory or whatever?
ascii_field: some people use pointed stick and live in an igloo.
mircea_popescu: no. the statistics are that young males spend more time with computers than with women.
jurov: and how from tit all follows that windows users ===== derps?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: computers are less annoying than most women these men would say.
kakobrekla: how do you know the sex of my machine?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla sex dun matter. the entire thing was "male curiosity is the same thing that makes the male sex drive".
mircea_popescu: jurov i don't go there, im just speaking to the rthing i spoke to ok ?
mircea_popescu: this "not retarded just unaware" is nonsense. that they're unaware is the proof of their retardation.
mircea_popescu: now, maybe they are aware and use windows for impenetrable reasons, to which i don't got much to say.
mircea_popescu: lemme show you. suppose you go by a diner in wash, and inside see the most beautiful girl ever
mircea_popescu: like, conceivable. you wipe away tears of mental contradiction because you didn't think this could exist.
mircea_popescu: so, on an impulse, uncharacteristically, you go in. and walk up to her
mircea_popescu: she like jumps all over you and is like "omg you know how long i've been waitinfg for you my love!?!?!?!"
mircea_popescu: so you kiss at which point a dude opens the door, pulls out a shotgun and blows your brains away.
mircea_popescu: the last thing you hear is "fucking shit, excuse me, miss. i thought he was someone else."
mircea_popescu: and this is not nearly as contrived as it may seem. the one wish that will come up if you actually are a necromancer and can speak with the dead
mircea_popescu: in all the cases of murdered wise men, is "i wish they had first bothered to know who the fuck i was".
ascii_field: the canonical: 'one day, a bullet hit stierlitz in the head. "a hollow-point, must be!", thought stierlitz, scatter-brained'
☟︎ mircea_popescu: don't shoot mikey, we're not disparaging windows. just the users. k ?
mircea_popescu: it's not revenge and it's not cheating, it's "you're too shitty to reproduce". a sensor they do have in their brain, and which is being so deeply downregulated to live in teh civilised world, it starts firing randomly.
mircea_popescu: notably, no female monkey that's been raped, even if regularly and consistently, ever attacks the rapist.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, she WILL disable dribbly betas that make half-assed attempts which they manage to fend off.
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 14:22:09; BingoBoingo: They aren't complete, because I accidentalied a lot of it
mircea_popescu: i suppose you could turn this into a "you're not supposed to be a man, i picked you because you're shit, to make you my live toy. if you contradict this i'll fucking kill you" which could then be summarized as "jilted" and "revenge". but if THAT is what the authors are thinking when using those words, they're worse than the KKK over there.
trinque: you know, a former girlfriend I said goodbye to this weekend told me that the problem with being with me was that she lost the desire to seek other sexual partners when fucking me (this apparently being psychologically important to her for some reason related to shopping)
trinque: I just shook my head, said "jesush christ you're broken" and laughed
mircea_popescu: trinque dun judge womenz by what they say to you at times like that.
trinque: could've just been what you say to him when leaving
mircea_popescu: i mean if she said that she couldn't possibly have been unfaithful yes ?
trinque: yeah not once, though broke it off with me because she thought this quaint? or who knows what
trinque: my reaction was "if this is your natural reaction to me, what the fuck's wrong with it?"
shinohai: I also read a story of Yazidi women who have formed a paramilitary force to kill their rapists (ISIS)
mircea_popescu: which is why /me recommends structured relations. takes all this dubious derpage out of the thing.
mircea_popescu: theres a reason when people go dancing they agree aforehand on WHAT dance will they dance
mircea_popescu: rather than you know, find themselves there and try to guess as they go alon
trinque: right, were I to just take charge and say "well you belong to me then, and that's that" she'd react with all the socialist bullshit in her head
mircea_popescu: shinohai right, and this exists not as a tool to keep in line the beta boys of isis, but as a means for isis to lose its fucking leadership.
mircea_popescu: always give the other the chance to actually play his hand, yes ?
trinque: tbh it is in listening to you describe relationships that I've realized I have several lovers I have not tended to *at all*
trinque: that is, to be very honest.
trinque: but anyhow, I'm leaving this state and she's voting for hillary or something
mircea_popescu: lemme ask you this. if you were the well bearded patriarch of a most devouted harem
mircea_popescu: and i mean... girls who'd lovingly, readily lick your asshole if you don't feel like using toilet paper, devoted.
mircea_popescu: one of the most useful conceptual tools at your disposal. "am i doing this because i'm not sure i'm the king-emperor, or because it's what the king-emperor does ?"
trinque: no, never been my style to try to control those things
punkman: why would you let them vote?
mircea_popescu: that question divides the abstract world in two. not even that one or the other of the two kinds is better. merely the distinction is useful in and of itself.
ascii_field: let's also ask which mcdonalds item they will be ordered to eat?
mircea_popescu: punkman i don't care either way, they can vote if they want to, what.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34850 @ 0.00071112 = 24.7825 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: yeah I've said things like that, and not asked whether
trinque: and this has usually had a wonderful result
trinque: girl in question went from being a retail something to a project manager at a software company
mircea_popescu: ascii_field if you enforce looks and a fuckable muscle tone, they drop the mcd on their own.
ascii_field: was answering the 'who would you order them to vote for'
mircea_popescu: trinque see ? that's your spv. "you're my thing, and if you shut up and suck it you may one day be smart enough to do all the things you don't like toi think about now because you're unsure"
phf: trinque: in my experience you want to bring that socialist stuff to the surface asap, and then nip it in the bud, or end the whole thing if failed. eventually the unexplored is going to be what creates strife
trinque: yeah, of course this was a goodbye, so I have made an assessment of whether the tumor's extractable
trinque: it's sort of a diseased version of something normal, I observe
punkman: mircea_popescu: they drop the mcd on their own. << yeah that's what I was shooting for, why would a good slavegirl want to vote in derplections?
trinque: she saw herself developing into a woman due to my books and fucking, and couldn't deal with that
trinque: neotony, it's a thing, I've learned :p
mircea_popescu: trinque dun hurt telling these things out plain, in general.
trinque: sure, told her all of that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19650 @ 0.00072074 = 14.1625 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: but i did order mcdonalds icecream cones be purchased and sampled, because wtf already, when i came here first i was shocked at how good the icecream was. then i found a place which shocked me again, at how good their icecreeam was over argentine icecream. and recentyly found a second, which YET AGAIN
shinohai: dun hurt to always marry a girl at the top of her blowjob game, either.
mircea_popescu: but if she's a milf she has kids, which makes her cocksucking dedication questionable at best.
mircea_popescu: "nah man, she does this trick where she grabls her knees and spits in her own snatch afterwards, i've never seen anything like it."
trinque: the kind of woman you can curl up with a book in
trinque has begun to not care, open to reasons why he should
trinque: how's this not just any other altcoin?
assbot: The news, in brief : "Hearn is a shitstain, MP is right, fuck reddit. Love, Satoshi" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1Eyf7mo )
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 14:27:14; punkman: "The previous CoinWallet test only achieved about 15% of its output because its servers crashed."
mircea_popescu: i guess they did get something from the early mpoe-pr adversative marketing techniques. so in that sense less dumb than most forum derps.
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 14:31:36; asciilifeform: nah but you 'get points for trying' if you break your fists. somehow. in the bizarre usg twerp view of the world.
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 14:50:30; Naphex: BingoBoingo: amazon seems to be supporting it hard lol
mircea_popescu: why is astroturfing so fundamental to usg political thought is beyond me.
ascii_field: 'cause vox populi, vox dei !!111!!11 (tm) (r)
ascii_field: 'i speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues!1'
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 15:09:37; BingoBoingo: Or the ones on the AWS ip space
mircea_popescu is kinda tooi lazy to dig up that article with the oglaf cartoon re the electoral debater.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41700 @ 0.00072074 = 30.0549 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28650 @ 0.00070141 = 20.0954 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 15:46:27; pete_dushenski: "Gavin has done more for bitcoin in a few years than you could do in a life time. 2003 128mb in my phone, 2006 1Gb on my phone. 2010 32gb on my phone, 2015, 64 gb on my phone. And your telling me raising the block size limit from 1 to 20 mb is an issue?"
mircea_popescu: a more pointed example of how the entire thing just ground to a halt could not be devised if one tried. and yet the derp figures this bolsters his case. because he went to a school in the united states.
mircea_popescu: yea. and in 2020 a phone that has 32 gb card will cost 100x what the phone with the 64 gb card cost in 2015.
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 17:28:32; kakobrekla: stress network meh, thanks for derping in the history of everything forever and no way they heard of testnet.
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 17:35:12; kakobrekla: really it prolly should be more expensive than _ANY_ other way of paying.
mircea_popescu: "if you have any option besides paying in bitcoin, USE THAT. wtf is wrong with you anyway."
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 17:45:45; pete_dushenski: robert tilton really is doing "god's work". dude scammed john oliver out of $319 over a period of 7 months.
mircea_popescu: and for the record, that guardian article is a horrible hack job. it looks like someone took a camera and went to a coupla yard sales. wtf guardian, seriously ? you ever seen new jersey ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00071182 = 12.9551 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 19:29:50; mircea_popescu: nah. they're not actually useful and were made in bulk, so.
mircea_popescu: that's what drives the price : as the stored stuff gets delivered
mircea_popescu: not for a moment was i proposing user-owned shit to make it. but there's boxes.
ascii_field: i won't be surprised if we learn that usg has purchased and burned the bulk of those.
mircea_popescu: jus' dreamin' its dreams of "intellectual property" and whatnot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00071182 = 3.7015 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ascii_field here's the model i propose to you : current debit is 1mn units/day, say, call this t0. "world ends" event, t1. prices spike 40-50% and social support wanes. demand drops 80%. this is t2. production stops, and the pipeline gets diverted to storage, this is t3.
mircea_popescu: the good now moves from pipeline to sotrage pricing, and as a result it will slowly dwindle as price goes exponential and demand collapses.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9341 @ 0.0007116 = 6.6471 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so, sales of 100 units/day, at 100x what they cost a day, some point at t5.
mircea_popescu: that 1% total sale volume is the last sustainable place for it, after price increases past 100x demand collapses entirely and the good either becomes monetized or disappears outright, in the hands of collectors.
mircea_popescu: this is the star line of goods. just like normal stars.
ascii_field: as it is, a used car's worth of benjie buys the lot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00071282 = 21.6697 BTC [+]
jurov: pogo is useless without hard drive, either (and no, we don't have antifuse rom)
jurov: you remember that flood? and it was only one factory
ascii_field: but yes, one burned/flooded factory can double price of $component
ascii_field: (certain items are still scarce on account of fukushima)
ascii_field: but all of this is re: generic technocollapse
ascii_field: i was speaking of a specific strategic good
mircea_popescu: jurov nah it was like 3, and in any case the weather stayed bad and 90% of production was in the same area.
mircea_popescu: but yes : goods there moved from pipeline to storage like... halfway. 1/3 of a way really
mircea_popescu: price doubled. (price doubled specifically bnecause it wasn't all the way, incidentally)
ascii_field: the other thing is that price doesn't double when those directly hit can 'borrow' using shitflation - e.g., switch to chinese electrolytic capacitors instead of fukkupied jp parts
mircea_popescu: yeah but i don't see how the smartphone made out of shit and sticks will cut it
mircea_popescu: (incidentally -0 this is how the russians ruined their at some point fledging industrial reputation
mircea_popescu: the soviets tried the inflatatron, but by making shitstick cellphgone. it blew in their face)
ascii_field: however it works if 'that's how world works' and the consumer frog is boiled 1) reasonably slowly 2) in unison
mircea_popescu: no, it does not work. it merely appears to have worked
ascii_field: wake me up when the makers of 2007-present autos hang
ascii_field is to sleep as the archetypical sex starved 14 y.o. is to sex
mircea_popescu: "to ensure world happiness, you buy some people girlfriends and some people's girlfriends"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00069186 = 12.7302 BTC [-]
ascii_field: pretty much 90% of my 'rich' fantasy consists of being able to actually do my hardwired 26-hour circadian instead of pretending, badly, to do the standard 24
danielpbarron: ascii_field> danielpbarron ? << wasn't it like 20k?
jurov: so the consensus is.. i should start stocking on hdds/ssds?
mircea_popescu: the consensus is, it makes more sense to hoard NRFB smartphones than gold.
ascii_field: unless they have peculiarly short shelf lives
mircea_popescu: but then again gold is a very low bar. almost anything makes more sense to hoard.
jurov: lol incidentally.. my newfound love for n900's
trinque: not dumbphone enough for me
trinque: what I really want is like a radio-passive beeper
jurov: web browser can be handy
trinque: ascii_field: I may just not know how a beeper works
danielpbarron: ascii_field> 'cell phone lasts a year, dontcha know' << i've had my iPhone 5 for 3 years now, if i'm not mistaken
ascii_field: danielpbarron: wait till the os update is mandatory
ascii_field: that scarcely anyone keeps these for longer than 2-3 yrs
ascii_field: just like around 2007 it became ~sop~ for cars to last 5 yr instead of 15
trinque: ascii_field: now that I'm reading about it, is the passive in one-way pagers actually passive in the sense I care about?
danielpbarron: most useful feature of my iPhone is mod6's MPEx twitter bot announcing trades in real time to me wherever I go
trinque: not so much as a peep back to tower?
ascii_field: trinque: passive in the sense of not transmitting
trinque: surely this, being sane, must be on the way out
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: no, it was (and to a limited extent, still is) an actual product where i live
ascii_field: small box that only receives (somewhere in the 400 MHz band), with character display
ascii_field: signal from the station is very strong, can be received, typically, even in a lift, or an underground station
ascii_field: which made 'beeper' popular even as mobile phone appeared
ascii_field: surgeons, i'm told, still carry classic 'beeper.'
ascii_field: 'beepers' with provisions for answering were introduced but were obsoleted by 'smartPnohe'
jurov: lizardhitler must be able to page you at any time!!!1
trinque: hm. now I want a pocsag usb device
mats: danielpbarron: wait what? 'MPEx1' hasn't tweeted since 2013
trinque: general notion being that I might do some driving around with the laptop soon, see the states while it's easy, and I'd like to rely on passive tech (beeper, gps, etc) more as an exercise than because of any operational need
ascii_field: trinque: it still lives & dies by the official transmitters
trinque: ascii_field: sure, of course
ascii_field: but do wake me up when somebody starts transmitting a therealbitcoin blockchain i can pick up with my rtlsdr !!
ascii_field: and when i can throw a transaction into a wireless parasite mesh
punkman: you can send tx with satphone
punkman: and how does wireless mesh reach china?
punkman: well US transactions need to leave the continent no?
ascii_field: ^ ANOTHER reason tx ~has~ to be expensive, and blocks - light.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field "providing punctual technical solutions for poorly understood future situations".
mats: danielpbarron: ok cool
ascii_field: nah just doing a mircea_popescuine 'i like to think'
ascii_field: as with yesterday's block fattening thread.
ascii_field: premise is that in certain zimbabwes, net access is dodgy
ascii_field: one effective answer is 'don't go there' - reasonable
mircea_popescu: see, that's the difference. i don't think we ca do a "like to think" if the premise is not an "all" or "every"
mircea_popescu: actually, i would propose that's the difference between think and wank in the space in question.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14734 @ 0.00070467 = 10.3826 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: think is "all". wank is "some". "certain" is iffy and should be resolved to either.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu designs a parachute, and reasons using 'all' and 'every' ?
mircea_popescu: yes. when you design "a parachute" you design it for "every".
mircea_popescu: so then you say this, and your "Certain" has become an "every"
ascii_field: fine. when i pull this 'cord', we get a bitcoin node in a place where usg does not wish for there to be honest nodes.
mircea_popescu gapes in amazement at the incredibly powerful tool he came up with over dinner conversation.
ascii_field: 'a' == every territory presently occupied by the bugmen
jurov: ascii_field: if it can filter internet such, then it can do radio, too
mircea_popescu: this problem is easily resolved : there can not be an "any" node.
ascii_field: jurov: bugmen rely on radio too much, in modern times, for proper sov-style jamming
jurov: they rely on 'net, too, back since desert storm
jurov: that does not exist
ascii_field: granted, not as extensive as once before, in the old days
ascii_field: commercial links for most (but not all) long haul
phf: trinque: i have a gsm modem on home base, that saves sms to text file and generates wave files of left messages. when i travel i just periodically download that stuff, when i get internet connection. you could probably harden it in various ways to minimize your location being traced, as an exercise
ascii_field: incidentally, and not unrelated, payphones of the traditional kind where almost entirely abolished where i live
ascii_field: they were a loophole in the tracking grid and had to die, yes
phf: obviously, they get lame'd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00070467 = 9.8654 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: bbbut you are starting off with text which is best, especially to download on the road
phf: ~voicemail~ messages
mircea_popescu: if someone is dumb enough to talk to a machine they should CONTINUE.
trinque: voicemail's terrible; I use email and IRC
trinque: and if something doesn't do either of those things, it gets taped into one of them, or abandoned
ascii_field: here in the stone age lands, it is generally expected of a 'serious person' to be reachable by voice phone
trinque: phf: what's this modem? is the sms aspect special, or do I just need to learn those horrible looking codes?
ascii_field: (unless you're hitler and have a secretary)
mircea_popescu: i bet you he gets the bulk of it from womenz that don't know enough contemporaneous culture to just send nudies.
ascii_field: trinque: nobody cancelled hayes modem codes!!
trinque: I should autoresponder "tits or gtfo"
ascii_field: trinque: how else is the thing to let your machine know that it got a call, msg, or whatnot
phf: trinque: i parse gsm by hand, because. but there's a handful of linux packages that'll do it for you
trinque: I mean, arbitrarily any way
trinque: for example I know of a guy that built some radio doodad that farts out s-expressions
phf: version 1 of that was written for razr, because first phone i had with a usb connector
ascii_field: btw, best gsm modem i presently know of for this application is just about everything made by 'huawei'
ascii_field: their usb dongles, at least the ones i tested, can even make/receive voice calls
ascii_field: this is almost UNKNOWN on any other vendor
ascii_field: (to date i have not been able to source any but huawei which does this)
mircea_popescu: so for my own curiosity (inspired mostly by our bitcoin experiments here) i had it tested. there's no modern browser thatr doesn't leak memory.
ascii_field: who doesn't believe this - get thee to valgrind, and see for yourself.
trinque: the DOM is far to intermingled to ever deallocate certain things
trinque: god have I spent time in this hell
mircea_popescu: i wonder what;d happen if someone made a racist browser.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14666 @ 0.0007103 = 10.4173 BTC [+]
trinque: sounds like some kinda CLIM thing with a socket
phf: trinque: there's "closure"
trinque: phf: this is hypertext atop lisp in clim?
trinque: because hypertext isn't wrong, the browser is
ascii_field believes that hypertext, at least as presently implemented 'in-band', ~is~ wrong
phf: trinque: closure is a browser, which spawned a bunch of projects, one of them is closure-html, an html parser
trinque: yeah nah, I'm talking burn it all to the ground
trinque: represent hypertext as s-exp, write in CLIM
trinque: I'm sure you could do media really nicely in clim
trinque: and it would know things you could do to the media!
trinque: independent of the site author!
trinque stops himself before he dares dream
mircea_popescu: anyway : i am itching to declare extant browsers obsolete and force through a replacement.
phf: btw lynx has a pretty nasty track record of remote exploitable bus
phf: it's probably better then nothing, but without a foundation style audit, it's a liability
ascii_field: phf: the whole shit-orchestra, all the way down to the turtles and elephants, is a mega-liability
trinque: ascii_field believes that hypertext, at least as presently implemented 'in-band', ~is~ wrong << unless I misunderstand you, we agree
trinque: I am saying hypertext as the concept that there are relationships in written word that can be traversed is right
trinque: the browser, emphatically not
ascii_field: the essential thing is to use nothing whatsoever created by the folks who have so thoroughly disqualified themselves.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> nah, graphical. << surf ???
trinque: just another webkit wrapper
trinque: I wrote one of those me-self
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14952 @ 0.00070875 = 10.5972 BTC [-]
trinque: and the problem's so simple!
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2015 14:22:09; BingoBoingo: They aren't complete, because I accidentalied a lot of it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3638 @ 0.00070875 = 2.5784 BTC [-]
phf: oh, i missed the confusion part. the setup saves text files of sms messages and ~separately~ a folder of voicemail messages in mono mp3
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00070875 = 8.2924 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30489 @ 0.00071648 = 21.8448 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: relaxedman is not registered in WoT.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31950 @ 0.00070467 = 22.5142 BTC [-]
gribble: liquidassets was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <liquidassets> property only entered into it when I tried looking up meaning to funciary commodity. Yes, the "do you want it?" seems to be the question. Thanks MP always a pleasure
gribble: WolfGoethe was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 10 weeks, 3 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <WolfGoethe> some fool locking up my coins with bogus trades. what fool wants to deposit cash to the bank... at midnight???
trinque: !v assbot:trinque.unrate.WolfGoethe:aebf4e3a51678a9538932c577f3d025744b6d9d15447342b9cbcc4b197eae9ab
assbot: Successfully unrated WolfGoethe
gribble: hasimir was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 0 days, 12 hours, 30 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <Hasimir> yeah, that was it (well, that and ZNC)
kakobrekla: myea, i unrated liek 100 people the other day (in both wots)
kakobrekla: anyone who i havent spoken to in a year for sure.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00070467 = 2.9596 BTC [-]
trinque: I thought Varia_Varietatis was sentenced to 6mos of log-reading for losing his second key
Varia_Varietatis: trinque: true, making a new key right now but think I might need a new nickserv account?
trinque: what I'm saying is, nobody in L1 will rate you at the present time such that you can self-voice (or at least, would be wrong to do so) because you made a severe error in maintaining your keys
trinque: an error which you will understand if you actually do the work and read logs
Varia_Varietatis: kakobrekla: anyway I can keep this name? never used the key on the bot.
kakobrekla: well, try to register, see what it says
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.000732 = 7.5762 BTC [+]
[\\\]: do you live on an island by yourself?
Varia_Varietatis: Tell you all about it, after I work out my key / name sitaution brb
trinque: Varia_Varietatis: you're setting yourself up to be rated negatively, here
trinque: you would be best served reading, not trying to register for the umpteenth time
Varia_Varietatis: Yea, I put a key in then lost the pass phrase. trinque true learning gpg still..
trinque: but I don't hand you a gun first off when teaching you how to shoot
danielpbarron: Varia_Varietatis, write down pass phrase before you type it in, try out key before you register it
jurov: you obviously need to improve your attention span, logs are useful tool
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35050 @ 0.00071385 = 25.0204 BTC [-] {4}
trinque: danielpbarron: I wouldn't give the guy one-off answers like that
Varia_Varietatis: working on testing my key now but gpg quit asking for my passphrase think i'm doing something wrong
jurov: and if there's mental disability in play oughta figure it out first
trinque: and this point must be enforced by L1, imo.
danielpbarron: Varia_Varietatis, and to answer your other question, yes you will need a new nickname and nickserv registration
jurov: BRB HOLD ON, MUST RUN TO GPG
danielpbarron: i should edit the first_steps wiki page to put the log reading part at the top of the list
jurov: i found it more like bipolar than aspie (not to say it can't be both)
shinohai: I saw the Spanish one first BingoBoingo xD
kakobrekla: i dont think miners are 'boycotting' at all ftr.
gribble: log.bitcoin-assets.com is up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.000732 = 16.836 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: i have a rather trigger happy ban hammer
danielpbarron: the blank dvds i picked up today are the wrong kind.. why is + vs - still a thing!?
danielpbarron: is it to get me to walk into the store a 2nd time 50% of the time?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.000732 = 8.967 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: meanwhile i'm trying to remember how I last got a gentoo-live thing on a flash drive
danielpbarron: no, there's supposed to be a way to copy the contents of the .iso to the flash drive
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37150 @ 0.00070467 = 26.1785 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Well you have to make sure it is copying over as the right filesystem then. I forget what it's called that has an actual disk filesystem layered over the CD iso, but probably that is missing
danielpbarron: gotta mount the iso and copy the stuff inside into a specially created disk image file
trinque: danielpbarron: use my thing!
trinque: !s deedbot.org/genbootstrap
shinohai: I tried, builds lovely filesystem, doesn't write it to .img
trinque: or how did you have the filesystem
trinque: it mounts a loop device at "build"
danielpbarron: doesn't that create the final thing? i'm trying to create the flash installer
trinque: there's no "installer" for gentoo that I'm aware of
trinque: the livecd is just another gentoo system
trinque: you need to change two things
trinque: blank out the value for IMAGE and set BLKDEV to the device in /dev for your drive
trinque: being careful of course that you have the right one...
trinque: danielpbarron: the script is written to be read and edited to personal fit
danielpbarron: gah, better off doing that straight to a hard drive i think
trinque: it uses genkernel, so it has the livecd's hardware detection
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51749 @ 0.00070217 = 36.3366 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: VariaVarietatis: why do you need voice to read logs?
trinque: danielpbarron: lemme know how your experience goes; and shinohai I thought you had bad ram or something
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24678 @ 0.00072565 = 17.9076 BTC [+] {3}
Adlai: congratulations alphabetmike and threeletteragencygavin, you've self-excommunicated me to the second foundation
Adlai: so where do i begin with this bitcoin thing?
Adlai: (or do i need to make a third foundation with ben_vulpes and trinque and phf and all the other lispers)
trinque: I only know of one legitimate bitcoin foundation
trinque: (ey satoshi, get in the WoT!)
thestringpuller: Adlai: interesting...there is no lisp client that I can find.
Adlai wrote his own secp256k1 group operations, isn't all the rest supposed to write itself?
trinque: Adlai: did you make a shithub?
trinque: I hear that site writes your code for you
Adlai only [re]wrote secp256k1.lisp
trinque: "base autism" << bwahaha wut
Adlai: aha. what does the test test?
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 204.25, Best ask: 175.84656934, Bid-ask spread: -28.40343, Last trade: 187.25, 24 hour volume: 50551.56244909, 24 hour low: 225.03, 24 hour high: 258.5, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00069186 / 0.00072023 / 0.00076057 (2019005 shares, 1,454.16 BTC), 7D: 0.00057936 / 0.0006804 / 0.0007991 (12557623 shares, 8,544.23 BTC), 30D: 0.00049661 / 0.00057265 / 0.0007991 (83883070 shares, 48,036.33 BTC)
Adlai: so close to breaking 80ksat :(
BingoBoingo thinks BIP 14 user agent string when paired with therealbitcoin have serious potential for lulz
mircea_popescu: <Adlai> so where do i begin with this bitcoin thing? << get stator/rotor going, is a start.
Adlai: mircea_popescu: thank you, i have found this signal but there's so much noise. working my way through it, trolling a little on the side because trinque apparently skipped number theory class
trinque: Adlai: I'm over here reading your code, you cunt.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Cool. It's one of those little pieces which seems to be holding up things like the getpeerinfo call. One of the things keeping my on my personal 0.7 fork. I find myself adjusting my user agent probably a couple times a week now for the chuckles
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 204.25, Best ask: 193.59607986, Bid-ask spread: -10.65392, Last trade: 180.17251972, 24 hour volume: 72150.16277429, 24 hour low: 162.0, 24 hour high: 258.5, 24 hour vwap: None
Adlai gets that warm fuzzy feeling, like how you hit your elbow when somebody thinks of you, but geekier
trinque: and I skipped all the classes, so you'll have to try harder than that.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 223.71, vol: 15951.47102033 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 230.0, vol: 8456.85296 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 180.74439559, vol: 72150.16277429 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 244.99, vol: 46.91052349 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 231.160764, vol: 19158.45630000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 199.34967, vol: 682.84999191 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 231.7403, vol: 128.65959276 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure (1 more message)
Adlai: trinque: sure but you probably got paper at the end
mircea_popescu: so bitfinex finally does the thing it was supposed to to and "cause panic" ?
Adlai: thus all the classes you skipped don't count and your deadbeat dropout status is revoked
BingoBoingo: Fuck, why couldn't potential fiat revenue stream actualize last month.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform didn't bingo run >9k version for a whiole ?
trinque: Adlai: no, I skipped *all* the classes.
Adlai: asciilifeform: doesn't slush lets any shmuck with a spondongle specify version numbers?
mircea_popescu: Adlai right. redditards, "FIRST APPLE TREE!111 FOUND IT IN MY GARDEN!"
Adlai: BingoBoingo: so you could realize losses for FY2015
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Client version not block version