mircea_popescu: in bootstrap ?
dexX7: lol
dexX7: yes, and highcharts *sarcasm_off*
mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt4QeltSKL8
ozbot: Trailer Porno Romanesc.avi - YouTube
dexX7: i bet it's funnier, if you understand what they say
pankkake: I like the mcxnow charts
mircea_popescu: they get to bad english towards the end
pankkake: oh it seems to be highcharts too
pankkake: I don't think I know any romanian pornstar
mircea_popescu: yeah, you do.
nubbins`: lel
pankkake: female
mircea_popescu: yes female.
pankkake: ah yes, forgot Mircea is a girl's name
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: ;;google steve holmes alice romain
gribble: Alice Romain sister to Sandra | Adult DVD Talk Forum | Porn Fan ...: <http://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/alice-romain-sister-to-sandra>; Steve Holmes - Free Porn, Porn Tube, Free Porn Videos, Amateur ...: <http://www.pichunter.com/models/steve_holmes>; Sandra Romains Little Sister Does her First Porn Ever: <http://www.publicdisgrace.com/site/shoot/13615-Sandra-Romains-Little-Sister- (1 more message)
pankkake: yeah found Sandra Romain, I know
pankkake: I like her work in Hellfire Sex apparently
pankkake: lol "chuck it"
mircea_popescu: also, these chicks : http://trilema.com/2012/doua-alternative-teoretice/
mircea_popescu: how many triplets that do porn do you know ?
pankkake: identical triplets?
nubbins`: there are fraternal triplets?
nubbins`: no reason why not, i suppose
mircea_popescu: sure there are, and yes.
pankkake: I have no sister, but I never understood the incest taboo
mircea_popescu: it doesn;t apply to girls.
pankkake: it never applies to girls
pankkake: pedolesbians are ok too
nubbins`: i was always under the impression that any product of such union would be a horrible mess of recessive genetic defects brought to life
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.01169999 = 0.468 BTC [-]
nubbins`: but afaik girls can't impregnate each other
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's risky, but by no means not guaranteed failure.
mircea_popescu: to quote some guy on some irc channel, "the island where i live had two moose couples introduced. now there's 150k of them"
pankkake: nubbins`: well yes, but the taboo is about sex, not having children
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: it was 4 moose :(
nubbins`: they tried 2 and it didn't work
pankkake: many people should not reproduce too (because bad gene combinations), but society thinks sex is ok
nubbins`: oh, 2 moose couples
nubbins`: reading comprehension
nubbins`: did i mention i made a delicious moose stew yesterday?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` 2couples.
mircea_popescu: lol
nubbins`: so anyway, i was wondering if any of you could recall an occasion where people created a new blockchain for the express purpose of keeping track of share ownership
nubbins`: i.e. company does an ipo, sells 100k shares, creates genesis block showing 100k addresses with 1 satoshi in each
nubbins`: none of this coloured coin stuff, but an actual separate blockchain altogether
nubbins`: with the idea being that each satoshi represents 1 share
kakobrekla: why have 100k addys
kakobrekla: 1 btc would equal to 100000000 shares, you can have it on a single addy
nubbins`: well i suppose 1 address per ipo shareholder makes more sense
nubbins`: sorry, i had all this written down somewhere but lost it
nubbins`: anyway, each new block shows not btc changing hands but shares changing hands
kakobrekla: like its 1 address per bitcoin user except that its not
mircea_popescu: nubbins` this is colored coins basically.
mircea_popescu: iirc they did try aspecial coin at some point
mircea_popescu: nobody would mine it
nubbins`: heh
kakobrekla: eh?
mircea_popescu: sometime 2012 this
kakobrekla: just merge mine it
nubbins`: you wouldn't need to mine
mircea_popescu: they didn't have mm at the time yet.
nubbins`: all the shares that will exist are created at ipo
kakobrekla: if you are luke, nobody has to know you are doing it with others hash power too
nubbins`: well, to put another way
kakobrekla: mining is not only for printing
kakobrekla: its how tx gets confirmed
nubbins`: no block rewards
kakobrekla: mhm
nubbins`: i had some sort of idea about proof of work being required to post a bid/ask
nubbins`: but i don't think it'd work in practice
kakobrekla: where is that mpex options calculator
mircea_popescu: the who ?!
mircea_popescu: heresy!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4823 @ 0.00084792 = 4.0895 BTC [+]
nubbins`: the problem is that the smaller the fund, the greater the risk of a 51% attack
nubbins`: and the whole thing kinda fell apart around that point
nubbins`: started thinking about the fund operator running the equivalent of a mining pool and putting limitations on gh/s per shareholder etc etc
mircea_popescu: right-o.
nubbins`: but then i became confused
nubbins`: & figured i'd waste everyone's time in here
gribble: Error: "figured" is not a valid command.
peterl: lol gribble
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 100 @ 0.00126978 = 0.127 BTC [+]
nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/cbc-apologizes-1.1930366
ozbot: CBC Apologizes - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News
mircea_popescu: aww
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 1.239 = 2.478 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Eight members of Congress were arrested during a Tuesday immigration rally on Washington, D.C.’s National Mall.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5024 @ 0.00084796 = 4.2602 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: heck, i didn't know you can do that.
mircea_popescu: in what country can you arrest mps ?!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 191 @ 0.00126978 = 0.2425 BTC [+]
nubbins`: in what country can't you!
nubbins`: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/resources/Fracking+protest+ends+arrest/8807051/story.html
nubbins`: http://m.570news.com/2013/07/16/alberta-mp-arrested-in-prostitution-sting/
ozbot: Conservative Alberta MP arrested in prostitution sting | 570News
nubbins`: TBF that last one was in a foreign country
mircea_popescu: nubbins` in romania you can't arrest a mp.
mircea_popescu: or in england, or in france
mircea_popescu: or generally in the civilised world. wtf is this.
nubbins`: that vancouversun.com article is actually about a sitting british mp being arrested
nubbins`: in britain
mircea_popescu: alberta ?!
nubbins`: no
nubbins`: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/resources/Fracking+protest+ends+arrest/8807051/story.html
nubbins`: green party, natch
mircea_popescu: "Caroline Lucas, Britain’s only Green Party member in Parliament, was led away by police from a sit-in at the gates of a drilling site near the village of Balcombe and put in a police van."
mircea_popescu: not arrested.
nubbins`: bah
mircea_popescu: sure, if there's a brawl the police will come in and knock people over heads.
nubbins`: "A British lawmaker was among more than two dozen people arrested Monday at a protest against shale gas extraction in southern England."
mircea_popescu: but the only way to arrest a mp is to get permission from the respective parliament
mircea_popescu: this since about 1790
mircea_popescu: the press is clueless.
nubbins`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_immunity
nubbins`: i wonder if this applies to canadia
mircea_popescu: "Members of parliament may be arrested or otherwise deprived of their freedom, or face restrictions thereof, only with the permission of the desk of their assembly. "
nubbins`: i was confusing that with parliamentary privilege
nubbins`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_privilege
nubbins`: ok, here we go
nubbins`: Individual parliamentary privileges include: Freedom of speech, Freedom from arrest in civil action, Exemption from jury duty, Exemption from appearing as a witness, Freedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestation
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 10 @ 0.01179 = 0.1179 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: mpex-mktdepth.php still has sdice asks innit
mircea_popescu: ha.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 661 @ 0.00121968 = 0.8062 BTC [-] {8}
nubbins`: "Freedom from arrest in civil actions is the oldest privilege of the House of Commons, pre‑dating freedom of speech in the United Kingdom.[191] The immunity exists because the House has the pre‑eminent claim to the attendance and service of its Members, free from restraint or intimidation particularly by means of legal arrest in civil process. It has only applied to arrest and imprisonment unde
nubbins`: civil process and does not interfere with the administration of criminal justice."
nubbins`: so if an mp slanders you, tough shit
mircea_popescu: that last bit doesn't seem particularly accurate.
nubbins`: if he stabs you, tough shit for him
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 4459 @ 0.00120116 = 5.356 BTC [-] {11}
nubbins`: straight from the horse's mouth: http://www.parl.gc.ca/procedure-book-livre/Document.aspx?sbdid=abbc077a-6dd8-4fbe-a29a-3f73554e63aa&sbpid=8d1fb681-ebe9-49e7-a752-37cf494854cb
mod6: well if they were arrested at some drilling site, maybe they were tresspassing
nubbins`: "Any incident of a criminal nature in which a Member has been charged is not a matter where immunity from arrest will protect that Member."
mod6: It also means that members of Parliament cannot be arrested on civil matters for statements made or acts undertaken as an MP within the grounds of the Palace of Westminster, on the condition that such statements or acts occur as part of a proceeding in Parliament—for example, as a question to the Prime Minister in the House of Commons.
mod6: There is no immunity from arrest on criminal grounds, nor does the civil privilege entirely extend to the devolved administrations in Scotland or Wales.
mircea_popescu: this sounds like a novel development.
mod6: show me what a police state looks like
mircea_popescu: maybe my memory is confused and common law never had that priviledge,
mircea_popescu: but iirc it did.
nubbins`: ok, it says right here that parliamentary privilege only covers your actions in your capacity as an MP
nubbins`: and, in fact, an MP would have to attend a hearing for a traffic violation
nubbins`: "If Members are charged with infractions of the law, then they must abide by the due process of law just like any other citizen. To do otherwise would be contemptuous of the justice system."
mircea_popescu: sucks to be stuck in common laws systems i guess.
nubbins`: ah, it's not that bad
mircea_popescu: so when was this so interpreted ?
nubbins`: since time immemorial, apparently
nubbins`: "This is in accordance with the principle laid down by the British House of Commons in a conference with the House of Lords in 1641"
nubbins`: you're telling me that in romania, an mp can rent a van and drive it through a crowd of people, killing indiscriminately, and he cannot be arrested?
usagi: Greetings, programs :)
usagi: Oh hey nubbins.
nubbins`: hi
nubbins`: we were just discussing parliamentary privilege, and the limits thereof, in common-law systems of government
usagi: Oh, you mean the entitled class and the working class?
usagi: Or something like say a british minister tying himself to a tree? (read the papers lately anyone?)
nubbins`: more like british minsters tying themselves to trees
nubbins`: or romanian ministers driving vans through crowds of people
usagi: Well from what I can gather there is such a thing called parlimentary priviledge
nubbins`: oh, yes
usagi: Then there is pollitical immunity
nubbins`: however, it only covers MPs acting in their duties as MPs
mike_c: it all makes sense now. mirecea can run a btc equity exchange without getting arrested because he's a MP
usagi: Yeah just like PI, which is why the head of the UN (IIRC) had to step down after being accused of having an affair.
nubbins`: speaking of immunities, i have a spare router and was thinking of providing free wifi access, thoughts?
nubbins`: bagholder: wanna buy some mining hardware?
bagholder: lol not really
nubbins`: but… your name...
bagholder: haha i know.
usagi: Well nubbbins, once the government tells you there are terrorists everywhere, you have no plausible deniability
usagi: I'd say no on the open wifi then.
nubbins`: yeah
nubbins`: then i was thinking i could set up a tor node on a raspi and run the wifi through that
mod6: think of how dangerous this gets. if you can't run an open wifi channel because of 'terrorists', then you really can't run an encrypted one either as WEP/WPA2 have been broken.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.0008401 = 3.7805 BTC [-]
pankkake: WPA2 isn't broken
usagi: mod6: Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I suggest the death penalty.
mod6: you can crack wpa2
dexX7: hey nubbins`: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=308085.0
usagi: You know how when you say "I got into this with the best of intentions,"? <---- THAT IS A CONFESSION lol
usagi: Treated as such.
pankkake: reddit summed up: let's solve a complex issue by selling shirts
nubbins`: dexX7: thanks for the tip!
dexX7: lol yea, pankkake
dexX7: nubbins`: :) i'm happy to promote your "service"
pankkake: I didn't know. interesting
mod6: i dunno, i guess a lot of this depends on key weakness... but you do see the slippery slope there though of course.
mod6: hopefully someday all these laws/regulations will go away.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 400 @ 0.00117633 = 0.4705 BTC [-] {8}
mircea_popescu: nubbins` he can not be arrested.
nubbins`: REALLY?
mircea_popescu: he can be detained, but he'll walk right out of that the next day and presumably climb right into his spare van
nubbins`: people stand for that?
mircea_popescu: mike_c im not a mp! i'm THE mp.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` sure. why not ?
nubbins`: not sure if serious
mircea_popescu: i am.
nubbins`: i'm mildly shocked
nubbins`: i'm used to elected officials at least pretending that they're not above the law
mircea_popescu: listen. if you don't trust the guy don't vote him,
mircea_popescu: if you imagine the damage he does comes chiefly through mowing down people in a van... you're at least naive.
nubbins`: well, hitting people with vans wasn't part of his platform!
mircea_popescu: besides, in romania you can murder someone and as long as its your first offense you usually get a suspended sentence.
mod6: i guess i should retract that statement about cracking wpa2. perhaps the cryptosystem itself perhaps hasn't been broken yet. but it can be dictionary attacked, of course.
mircea_popescu: o shit, nubsy, you make shirts baby ? i got something for you
mod6: next they'll come after you for having weak passwords... etc.
mod6: yikes
nubbins`: just seems odd that you'd give people a free pass on being a dickhead just because of their job
nubbins`: technically i only print the shirts, but ya know, splitting hairs here
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you realise "cant be arrested" != "can't be prosecuted" right ?
pankkake: mod6: yes. actually France has a thing like that. you are responsible of "securing" your line
nubbins`: never really examined that relation before, in fact
mircea_popescu: arrest is this very peculiar sort of remedy. the mps are the gentry of the land, and the police state doth not get to mess with the gentry. because the gentry owns the government not the other fucking way around.
pankkake: (and this was only for piracy, not for terrorism etc)
dub: speaking of t-shirts http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/05/15/184208123/were-making-t-shirts-lots-and-lots-of-t-shirts
dub: kickstarter still retarded
mod6: thats amazing. this type of thing must die.
mod6: wat, no AMAZING COMPANY?!
nubbins`: dub: i listened to something the other day about how they had such a pain in the ass transferring money
mircea_popescu: i kinda like the idea. "secure your line or go to jale".
mircea_popescu: next would of course be the mass jailing of microsoft. "failed to secure your product, life w/o possibility"
nubbins`: don't let anyone steal your french fries or 50 lashes
mod6: but if the tools one is given are too shitty to secure the line in the first place, im not sure you can hold someone accountable for that. aside from that, if someone wants in, they'll get in.
dub: nubbins`: yeah thats where I found it
mod6: either that, or restrict the internet to only a select handful of groups/individuals. although, that wouldn't probably go over very well.
usagi: No, but it will go over
mircea_popescu: mod6 buy good tools or don't have a line.
mircea_popescu: gotta create the mkt for sane software somehow.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 400 @ 0.0011521 = 0.4608 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 6000 @ 0.00115206 = 6.9124 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 2000 @ 0.00113692 = 2.2738 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 2362 @ 0.00108518 = 2.5632 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 3718 @ 0.00102066 = 3.7948 BTC [-] {15}
Namworld: Well, BTCT.co is out. BitFunder has a foot on the doorstep.
Namworld: Havelock and MPEx remain
Namworld: I guess Havelock will lock out US people at a minimum soon
dub: we should all lock out US people
dub: lock them in the US nuke it from orbit
Namworld: Only MPEx will still allow US people I guess. MPEx doesn't care/discriminate. MPEx only requires a minimum of funding (registration fee)
kakobrekla: scamlab speaks https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263445.msg3303684#msg3303684
pankkake: yet MP hates everything US!
pankkake: not really scamcoin
pankkake: he's a victim too
pankkake: and he got paid in lolcoin shares iirc!
mircea_popescu: i don't hate everything us, i fuck us chicks like weekly.
pankkake: corn fed?
dub: corn holed
mircea_popescu: you threatening me ?
pankkake: just need tp for my bunghole
mircea_popescu: * bagholder is now known as freshcoin << saving this for the recquord, quoted for truth, so very apt etc.
Namworld: lol, bagholder
mircea_popescu: "I have not been able to get a hold of Sam in over a week. I have talked to TheSeven over Skype and I can't speak for him but I feel that we are reaching the point where the Labcoin team being absent is just not even close to OK anymore."
mircea_popescu: tada.
mircea_popescu: where's the blood sweat and tears ?
mircea_popescu: where's the drunken brawly post (meanwhile edited) ?
Namworld: Fresh coins go this way
Namworld: <---
mircea_popescu: ou sont les scams d'antan
freshcoin: lol
nubbins`: les scams sont partout :(
mircea_popescu: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/24/1233627/-NY-AG-Schneiderman-Files-40-Million-Fraud-Lawsuit-Against-Donald-Trump-his-University
Namworld: Parti la ou il reste des gens qui ne sont pas sans le sous
ozbot: Daily Kos: NY AG Schneiderman Files $40 Million Fraud Lawsuit Against Donald Trump & his 'University
Namworld: C'est qu'ils on eu du succes
mircea_popescu: mais ou y-a-til encore des gens avec d'ecus!
nubbins`: j'ai besoin d'une nouvelle scam maintenant!
pankkake: j'ai besoin d'une nouvelle arnaque maintenant !
Namworld: Des ecus? Ca ca va prendre une machine a remonter dans le temps pour en trouver!
mircea_popescu: check it out pankkake, we're speaking in prose!
mircea_popescu: Namworld shh, it rhymes with sous. it'll have to do.
Namworld: I've seen better...
nubbins`: ahahaha
nubbins`: goodness
mircea_popescu: http://www.journaldugeek.com/files/2013/02/Screenshot_1111-600x338.png
nubbins`: sweet walkman
mircea_popescu: that is not a man.
mircea_popescu: you can tell by the penis and some other pixels.
bloctoc: is there an osx eulora download somewhere? I hear that game is the shits.
mircea_popescu: bloctoc no osx specific yet. there's a precompiled linux thing which maybe might work,
mircea_popescu: and there's source which you might compile.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 34 @ 0.01114971 = 0.3791 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: a new version is about to come out this month tho, with a bunch of changes, so if the binary doesn't work prolly save yourself for that rather than compile old code.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 193 @ 0.0110513 = 2.1329 BTC [-] {7}
bloctoc: two weeks then?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 55 @ 0.0106739 = 0.5871 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: mebbe less.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.01025199 = 0.205 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: that great moment when you read your own blog, discovering excellent poetry you had written years ago and meanwhile forgotten. check it :
mircea_popescu: Despre-un baiat si-o fata cu inima curata
mircea_popescu: Ce-i susura-n urechi, umed, cambrata
mircea_popescu: Soapte de-amor si dragoste adevarata
mircea_popescu: Tot ce se poate spune s-a zis macar o data.
nubbins`: GCC included in OSX doesn't work well at all with eulora code
nubbins`: oh, he left
nubbins`: oh, he's back
mircea_popescu: lol
bloctoc: hi what did i miss? (if you're talking about me)
bloctoc: I clicked on some jpg then my computer froze. probably just a coincidence.
mircea_popescu: maybe it was a really cool jpg
bloctoc: I'll never know...
mircea_popescu: “As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron.”
mircea_popescu: anyway, bloctoc : we were talking to you, look in the log.
bloctoc: I suppose the log in on the internet somewhere...
mircea_popescu: try /topic
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: what i was saying is that you very well might be able to compile eulora on OSX, but the version of GCC bundled with it won't work
nubbins`: apparently it's some sort of weird gcc/llvm hybrid
nubbins`: now, you can replace the onboard gcc with a proper version, but that breaks other things
mircea_popescu: break all the other things!
nubbins`: i think i did :(
nubbins`: anyway, it's certainly possible, given enough patience
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2650 @ 0.00084042 = 2.2271 BTC [+]
bloctoc: thanks mp nubbins I'll steer clear of osx. Maybe I'll try eulora on gentoo. if I get around to it.
dub: united derps of derpmurica
dub: http://news.yahoo.com/us-adults-score-below-average-worldwide-test-090114407.html
ozbot: US adults score below average on worldwide test - Yahoo News
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.1010415 = 0.2021 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: penis size ?
mike_c: gullability
mircea_popescu: Gullibility McGillicuddy
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.131 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 104 @ 0.00105501 = 0.1097 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: it’s illegal to be gay in 78 countries, with lesbianism is banned in 49.
mircea_popescu: why no 69!
mircea_popescu: so close ;/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.239 BTC [-]
dub: ah conversations with security folk
dub: how amusing and pointless you are
bloctoc: I read that people are "rick rolling" the FBI's seized coins account with messages on block chain dust. It's got me thinking about how one would set up a p2p marketplace built entirely off messages to that FBI address.
dub: lol
mircea_popescu: ahahaha
mircea_popescu: this is the best colored coins idea i heard so far.
dub: if only there was some kind of virtual dice game.. we could leverage that
mircea_popescu: A state highway that runs through the national park was closed after Grand Canyon officials found tourists removing barricades at overlooks along the road.
mircea_popescu: dude, they should ground planes
mircea_popescu: i once looked down into some natl park so i know it can be done
mod6: haha
mod6: i hate to see the GC closed. but fatasses hike into it everyday and can't get out so they need to emergency helicoptered out. so *shrug*
mircea_popescu: http://blacren.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/bdk2.jpg
dub: could be solved with an intensive wild cat breeding program
mircea_popescu: so for my curiosity, identify the lezzies.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 1.239 = 18.585 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1777 @ 0.00084042 = 1.4934 BTC [+]
pankkake: google images has the answer
dexX7: uh oh https://bitfunder.com/ ;)
mircea_popescu: remarkable how little cultural/visual history people on average know
mircea_popescu: that's one of the iconic moments of the 90s i'd say.
pankkake: if you care about mainstream crap maybe
mircea_popescu: dexX7 not news was it ?
mircea_popescu: pankkake how's that mainstream !?
pankkake: madonna?
mircea_popescu: i guess, queen of pop and all that. her lezzing out with naomi campbell and some obscure rapper hardly qualifies tho.
mircea_popescu: about as subcultural, countercultural, subversive and all that as it gets.
dub: its quite simple
dub: has vagina? is lesbian
pankkake: I've seen the "sex" book and well, boring
mircea_popescu: not for the 90s tho.
mircea_popescu: at the time dub was dubbing it to ascii prons
dexX7: mircea_popescu: there was a short moment of "Maintenance in progress. Thank you for your patience."
dub: I certainly knocked a couple out to that book
mircea_popescu: dexX7 a ok.
mircea_popescu: dub i think i bought the only dozen that made that year to romania.
dexX7: trades were shown as executed but actually weren't and even more funny: right after that moment you saw the "share balance" of the user from whom you tried to buy/sell shares..
mircea_popescu: whoa ?!
pankkake: Max Hardcore was in the 90's
mircea_popescu: not mainstream.
mircea_popescu: max hardcore in 1992 was being about as hard to get as cocaine today.
pankkake: well yeah! that was my hipsterist moment
mircea_popescu: i'll remind you aol was not yet online.
mircea_popescu: think about it. no bitcointalk forum, no bitcointalk forumers. nowhere.
mircea_popescu: pdp-10s and shit.
Lennix1: dexX7: And for the seller its shown as if he sold it to himself
dexX7: ah i see
Lennix1: and you paid the fee :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 160 @ 0.00299997 = 0.48 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyway, i gotta confess i'm kinda jealous of all that btctc volume and shit.
dexX7: so you admit "it was real"?
Lennix1: if you'd drop that ridicolous fee and modernized your page a bit, you could get that volume easily
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: email coming your way
nubbins`: would look ok with any shirt/ink colour combimation, really
nubbins`: bright red shirt with bright blue ink would be particularly eye catching
mircea_popescu: Lennix1 i make the rules.
dexX7: lol
mircea_popescu: dexX7 i guess you miss teh sarcasm layered in there.
dexX7: :(
dexX7: everytime i asked in the past, if you were sacrastic, you denied.. so i assumed you are always talking serious :p
nubbins`: anyway it turns out that a convincing RJ connector is actually pretty difficult to draw
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i heard this a few times this week
pankkake: the quote is out, too late
Namworld: So... there's been a bug all day on BitFunder where... when you filled a ask, it made the seller buy from his own ask, and then showed you his amount of shares on the page after trade executed.
nubbins`: lel
Namworld: Short: Filling ask makes seller buy from himself and then shows you seller's stats
Namworld: Whut?
mircea_popescu: sounds pretty bad.
Namworld: It is. I guess Ukto will have to refund all trading fees for the day. Cause many fees where obviously not necessary.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00084009 = 2.6043 BTC [-] {2}
Lennix1: mircea_popescu: and you're wondering why noone is playing with you
mircea_popescu: you are very much confused.
Lennix1: :)
mircea_popescu: i am amused at the noobs that still don't grasp why their average bitcoin lifespan is less than a year.
Namworld: Strangely enough, so far my lifespan has only been 1.5 year
asa1024: i've had fun the past year
mircea_popescu: Namworld makes you better than nefario & burnside so far.
asa1024: learned lots
Namworld: Considering I started early 2012, a while after learning about Bitcoin from an article about the 2011 autumn crash
mircea_popescu: asa1024 that's a virtue.
Namworld: I learned about it so late...
asa1024: i just keep my mouth shut and watch what other people have to say
mircea_popescu: an even greater virtue.
thestringpuller: lol looks like there will be blood 2 is gonna resolve soon
thestringpuller: bitfunder is crasssshing
mircea_popescu: wait there's a 2nd one ?
thestringpuller: bitfunder vs havelock I think
Namworld: It's already resolved since BTCT.co... nevermind
mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/551/us-debt-ceiling-will-be-lifted-by-oct/
ozbot: BitBet - US Debt ceiling will be lifted by Oct. 17th
Namworld: lol, was making bets on who goes next?
mircea_popescu: wow... someone actually thinks the ceiling gets lifted.
dexX7: last year, when i didn't know much about bitcoin and browsed btctalk mostly because of "x got hacked" news, i somehow ended up on trilema (-pr did a good job, i guess) everytime and was wondering "what is this cryptic language and why is this guy using a picture of himself as background" ... interesting how everything turned out a year later.
Lennix1: with the blatant incompetence of Ukyo/Ukto there will be no fight. Ukyo/Ukto will kill himself
Namworld: A dead pool?
thestringpuller: lol Ukto will kill himself
mircea_popescu: a bitcoin suicide ?
mircea_popescu: too soon.
kakobrekla: it always gets lifted
mircea_popescu: dexX7 o cause it was romanian still at the time ?
Lennix1: well I hope not literally, but at least he will kill bitfunder
Namworld: I doubt it. It's a frontend bug. He doesn't test front-end enough I guess. Nothing keeps front-end from sending bad trades at the trading engine.
dexX7: i think so, or i probably visited when it showed something romanian. though i wasn't that interested at this point to dig deeper.
Namworld: So far, no issues on the trading engine side it seems, ever
Lennix1: and thus bitfunder is great?
Namworld: Ukto puts too much time on the trading engine side and not enough on the front end with user inputs.
mircea_popescu: judging by the fact that this frontend knew the counterparties to trades,
mircea_popescu: it seems improbable there's a frontend/trade engine separation
Namworld: Actually the front-end often shows wrong stuff, trades, etc
mircea_popescu: but how did it know who sold when you bought ?
Namworld: When the back-end never actually processed
Namworld: My guess is the front end retrieves data from the back-end to display on the page, and send requests to the back-end which process it. The back-ends has lots of checks.
Namworld: Is my understanding of the system.
Namworld: But nothing keeps the front-end from sending incorrect trades that are valid according to back-end's data
mircea_popescu: if i could see the shares of a third party, could i perhaps withdraw for a 3rd party ?
Namworld: or showing the wrong info
Namworld: Possibly... but changing page restored your own info. The front-end only loaded the other party's info to you after you executed a trade.
Namworld: And apparently made you buy as that other party you're buying from when inputing a buy order
Namworld: Thus maybe why it then returned you and loaded that party info
Namworld: On the trade page.
mircea_popescu: i never really studied how the thing works.
jborkl_: So the bitbet resolved double yes, other exchanges will shutter by the end of the year
Namworld: Well I guess after a trade, it redirects you back to the asset page and loads info for user which submited the trade.
Namworld: So the input submiting your trade as the user you're buying from... well then that can only possibly let you know that seller's amount of shares and that's it.
Namworld: As changing page loads info for your session, so your own info
VanCleef: assets are dead get out while you can
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller link to that bet ?
Namworld: Isn't it odd? Bitfinex still around. It's Bitcoinica 2.0 pretty much.
Namworld: Guess they managed to outdo their predecessor.
Lennix1: well namworld I don't want to disillusionate you, but it seems that the only thing Ukto is doing, is watching his pile of bitcoins grow and grow
Namworld: Now to see how long it lasts. I'm curious
kakobrekla: outdo by time
kakobrekla: not by volume
Namworld: Yeah. Well volume is reasonable, but not amazing I guess?
kakobrekla: ass has it
Namworld: Ukto has been bleeding money on lawyers lately, or so I've heard.
Namworld: And he'll fix the thing and refund fees, any mishaps like this costs him in credibility and trading volume.
mircea_popescu: Namworld in the catatonic state it's in it can last indefinitely. icbit.se is still around too.
Namworld: He had trades working back in order in less than 10 minutes from being notified.
mircea_popescu: was it actually going for the entire day ?
Namworld: Now he has to fix trading fees that were charged
Namworld: Well not the full day. I guess for like a few hours, not sure.
Namworld: Maybe like 6-8 hours
mircea_popescu: couldn't have been that many trades anyone, someone'd have noticed/bitched.
mircea_popescu: anyway*
Namworld: Bitfinex volume isn't that low. There's like 1 million usd and 2000 BTC loaned out for margin trading right now.
Namworld: It's bigger than icbit.se if I'm not mistaken.
Namworld: icbit.se volume is incredibly low AFAIK?
kakobrekla: aha finex has a new page
Namworld: They changed the interface. It's quite decent now.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 1.239 = 12.39 BTC [-]
Namworld: Volume is a bit bigger than before. I'd say it's decent.
Namworld: Well there's enough liquidity for it to work for any margin trader.
Namworld: I'm just too afraid to use it knowing they used Bitcoinica's source code.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 1.20246666 = 10.8222 BTC [-] {2}
Namworld: Also pretty much stole their source code...
mod6: dont get zhou tonged
Namworld: Pretty much
Namworld: Still, I'm impressed
Namworld: They didn't get owned so far
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.17 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00290019 = 0.58 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 400 @ 0.001055 = 0.422 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00083991 = 2.2678 BTC [-] {2}
dub: do they have backups?
Namworld: I put like 12000 USD back in April selling at 150-160, made a few hundreds in interest, bought back BTC at 90-95 USD, withdrew BTC. Now I have a few hundreds USD in lending lol.
Namworld: Arf, forgot about that
Namworld: They claim daily backup and offline wallet
dub: I had forgoten btc on ozcoin until it got stolen
mircea_popescu: Namworld i can confidently say their volume is < 100 btc.
mircea_popescu: anyone can print any numbers they want on their own website.
Namworld: They have 10000 BTC according to their website stats (1 million USD + 2000 BTC)
Namworld: Would it really be surprising considering the scam IPOs which collected far more?
dub: story checks out
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0029 = 0.58 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: heh
Diablo-D3: well, I guess thats the end of the DMC buyback.
kakobrekla: go back to glbse
mircea_popescu: except the scams didn't collect far more, they claimed to have collected far more.
mircea_popescu: which is generally and universally a very easy claim to make.
Namworld: What happens with that?
kakobrekla: they did collect more than 10k
kakobrekla: the scams
mircea_popescu: anyway, im off to bed. nn & gl.
Namworld: True, true. Like LetsDice IPO
kakobrekla: cya
Namworld: Probably most of the BTC was invested by owners
Namworld: "invested"
kakobrekla: !jd
assbot: Just-Dice stat: 1191 BTC profit, 56.1k BTC invested, 162.93 mio bets, 4.01 mio BTC wagered
Namworld: Just fake demand
Namworld: JD has 40x Coinroll's BTC wagered and like 1.25x Coinroll's profit on same house edge.
Namworld: Nakowa took it all
kakobrekla: anyone got a clue how is sdice doing
Namworld: idk, make a script and scout the blockchain for said clue
kakobrekla: i think theres new phishing email going around
kakobrekla: >This mail was sent your account. FBI Shuts Down 'Silk Road' Online Now Bitcointallk.org Warning Situation Your donation can support this https://bitcointalk.org Now that this news is true we need the help of people who are willing to help us with your donation, you can do this and to support our staff at a time that is happening now, we are in need during the donation and therefore call and ask for help much as you can for technical updat
kakobrekla: > improvements to our Projects and support the future of Scene Bitcoin Bitcoin: 1YiyQPSR656jLZAU7oEnpcxBZTvAFU8uU Litecoin: LfDKcZHUuQKrr14pt5iBuPnsWRUiFcSzYo if you send just 0.1 or some btc to wallet you very help us Your donation can support this peace thanx for sent your btc
dub: loool
dub: sad part is if these fucks could find someone that speaks english that shit would probably yield with 80% of the forum tards
Namworld: Any scam mails would yield like 100x better results if proper English was used...
Namworld: I guess illiteracy and staying poor goes hand in hand.
CopperWireBeard: You no right!
nubbins`: ;;later tell mircea_popescu check your email when you get a chance; further evidence as to why i leave the artwork to others ;(
gribble: The operation succeeded.
nubbins`: oh hey a new personal message from the bitcointalk.org forums!
nubbins`: i better get some btc ready to send
nubbins`: oh, it was actually a legit message, now i feel silly
KRS1: Idk scammers from Nigeria do rather well.
KRS1: and they're actually quite pleasant and polite. Can't say the same for those form Somalia.
kakobrekla: yeah those are snakes!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00084793 = 2.7982 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: time for bed!
Diablo-D3: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130117.msg3302045#msg3302045
ozbot: [BitFunder] Asset Exchange Marketplace + Rewritable Options Trading
Diablo-D3: can someone tell me where hes quoting that from?
Diablo-D3: oh I found it
Diablo-D3: its actually on the damned website
dub: I like how theymos hasn't mentioned the hack or recommended changing passwords in any comms to users
dub: dude is a stand up guy
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 1.135 = 2.27 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: well if he doesn't mention it, i guess it never happened.
Diablo-D3: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.msg3304465#msg3304465
ozbot: [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00084451 = 5.8271 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: dub: because there wasnt a hack
Maraneth: Hello
Diablo-D3: it was just government interference
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00083952 = 5.7087 BTC [-] {2}
Maraneth: Does anyone know how to change passthrough shares into direct shares?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 766 @ 0.00083949 = 0.643 BTC [-]
dub: Diablo-D3: wat
Namworld: Void? What about the holdings? You can't pocket them for yourself.
Namworld: This logic is flawed. Any entity wishing to comply to regulations should attempt to close properly. Which certainly doesn't entail voiding existing contracts and pocketing assets. That may only hurt your plans.
Namworld: Auction assets and do a forced buyback.
Namworld: Should be short and expeditive.
Namworld: Complying involves typically excluding further investments from non-eligible investors and proper closure. Not voiding and keeping assets.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 400 @ 0.00083921 = 0.3357 BTC [-]
Namworld: Isn't your identity known? If you just pocket DMC's assets like that... Not going to look nice.
Namworld: That kind of behavior would actually look really bad...
dub: what assets?
Namworld: Should be around 300 ASICMINER-PT left among others
Namworld: Was a 11 DMC to 1 ASICMINER-PT conversion and should be good for about all outstanding shares
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 150 @ 0.00106601 = 0.1599 BTC [-] {3}
Namworld: Plus some other assets that could be considered pretty much valueless.
dub: I guess thats something
Namworld: Something like 40'000 USD
dub: you're right about the rest though, the days of play exchanges are over
Namworld: I recommend liquidation and payout to all holders and close.
Namworld: Easy to sell ASICMINERs and auction the other stuff.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1448 @ 0.00113839 = 1.6484 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1600 @ 0.00025 = 0.4 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 622 @ 0.00024992 = 0.1555 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3104 @ 0.00023489 = 0.7291 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2043 @ 0.00021474 = 0.4387 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 7957 @ 0.00020005 = 1.5918 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 644 @ 0.00019997 = 0.1288 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2747 @ 0.000185 = 0.5082 BTC [-] {3}
Diablo-D3: [02:27:41] <Namworld> Void? What about the holdings? You can't pocket them for yourself.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: no, but the company is free to keep them in the company's pocket.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: dont worry, DMC has not been critically injured in vain.
Diablo-D3: It'll be back.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: and if you're worried about your shares of your asset, you can have them.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: all 106 shares of BTC-MINING are yours.
Diablo-D3: its what you wanted, anyways, and I dont see amazingrando ever being brought to justice
dub: lol
Diablo-D3: Namworld: if you think Im just going to run from the SEC, Im not.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: but DMC was never created merely to make money. It was created for much grander purposes.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: oh, dont get me wrong, it made lots of money, all of which ended up in investor's hands
Diablo-D3: Namworld: but dont say shit like "you're running off with company assets"
Diablo-D3: No, I'm funding a war against those who want to see Bitcoin fail.
dub: DMC: The war against failure
pankkake: are you saying DMC won't Run?
phish: lol
Diablo-D3: pankkake: at least you used that for a joke
Diablo-D3: I mean, where DMC is going, we don't need roads.
pankkake: hehehe
ThickAsThieves: off a cliff?
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: no, but I tend on pushing the SEC off one
pankkake: don't be mean, Diablo might cry
Namworld: You still can't take DMC's assets
Diablo-D3: Namworld: good. Im not.
Diablo-D3: DMC is retaining them as per the shareholder contract.
Namworld: No, because you're voiding shares. It's effectively theft.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: no, effectively the SEC has done this.
Diablo-D3: I'm only complying.
Namworld: You can't arbitrarily void them. SEC would agree it wasn't done properly. But you can't void past actions.
ThickAsThieves: While I wasn't around for the earlier offenses, it does seem that DMC always manages to find a the worst way to manage its assets
Diablo-D3: No, but shareholders also have no right to the assets as per the contract.
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: not at all. for the majority of DMC's life, its been almost entirely invested in AM
ThickAsThieves: So, tell me, what will this move afford you for DMC's future?
Namworld: No right to assets, but you don't either.
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: the only failures have been Namworld's BTC-MINING and yochdog's BTCMC
Namworld: You can keep it running as it is right now or liquidate and force buyout.
ThickAsThieves: just auction the assets
ThickAsThieves: pretty simple
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: not viable.
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: and theres virtually no assets lefct
ThickAsThieves: i assume anything other than what youve chose is 'not viable'
Diablo-D3: Namworld helped amazingrando run off with 106 BTC
ThickAsThieves: chosen*
Namworld: There's ASICMINERs left.
Diablo-D3: yochdog is in the process of liquidation
ThickAsThieves: meh, i'm not sure why i got into this conversation
ThickAsThieves: surely it will only be a chore
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: I dont know either. You dont own any DMC afaik.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: you clearly think the contract says something it doesn't.
ThickAsThieves: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Reasonable+man+theory
ozbot: Reasonable man theory legal definition of Reasonable man theory. Reasonable man theory synonyms by t
dub: <DMC> its like that, and thats the way it is
Namworld: It doesn't need to. If you sell share in a company and then void shares and get away with it all...
Namworld: It's theft.
Namworld: The no rights to asset clause is merely an indication that we can't directly make a claim on the asset. Not that the manager can take those assets for himself/other endeavours.
Namworld: They remain in DMC and DMC holders are entitled to income/profit. Or in case of activity ceasing, 100% of liquidation value.
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 137.72001, Best ask: 138.49968, Bid-ask spread: 0.77967, Last trade: 137.72001, 24 hour volume: 8146.15003935, 24 hour low: 135.80000, 24 hour high: 139.50000, 24 hour vwap: 137.54397
ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash
gribble: 1605753.10322
Namworld: That's certainly not a proper way to close down.
Namworld: Liquidating and distributing would probably greatly reduce liabilities.
Namworld: Voiding those shares is a silly idea.
ThickAsThieves: particularly if he expects anyone to ever invest in his efforts in the future
ThickAsThieves: though that ship has likely sailed
Namworld: Well I assume it would have to be non-BTC investors. But good luck pulling it off using stolen assets to jumpstart it.
ThickAsThieves: hmm, shouldnt DMC be frozen at this point?
Namworld: Probably
Diablo-D3: Namworld: it already is afaik
Diablo-D3: er, ThickAsThieves
Diablo-D3: I think ukyo said hes freezing all american assets
ThickAsThieves: you need to freeze it yourself
ThickAsThieves: he's not doing that stuff til the 1st
Namworld: Diablo-D3, you can't close DMC like that and you know it.
Diablo-D3: dont think I can
Diablo-D3: Namworld: as per the contract, I actually can.
ThickAsThieves: Issuer > Edit Profile > Options
Namworld: As per the contract, you can't
Namworld: There's no clause allowing you to reallocate assets to other people or void shares.
Namworld: You're killing off any chance you have at DMC 2.0
Diablo-D3: Namworld: assets have not been reallocated.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: nor has DMC been closed.
Namworld: They have. Shares have been voided.
Diablo-D3: You seem to be confused.
Diablo-D3: Shares of DMC do not make DMC exist.
biteesak: ;;bc,24hprc
gribble: 127.94
Diablo-D3: DMC exists independently of shares existing.
Namworld: If DMC doesn't exist, the transfer of funds for that inexisting company sure took place.
Diablo-D3: If DMC doesn't exist, then what are we discussing exactly?
Diablo-D3: Because I'm pretty sure it exists.
ThickAsThieves: without the shares and holdings, DMC arguably does not exist
ThickAsThieves: since it does nothing
Namworld: I said "If", which is not the case. Even if DMC wasn't properly registered, the contract exist and is valid.
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: companies that do nothing frequently exist.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: yes, and the contract states shares have no claim to the assets unless the company is closing, thus assets would be liquidated
Diablo-D3: Namworld: DMC is not closing.
Namworld: It occured. Your identity is known. There's tracks of the whole ordeal. You're arbitrarily voiding DMC 1.0 shares and taking the assets to start and sell shares in DMC 2.0
Diablo-D3: Namworld: no, no shares in DMC 2.0 will ever exist.
Diablo-D3: that would just be playing into the SEC's game
Namworld: Well funding will exist.
Diablo-D3: Yes, funding by people who meet SEC accreditation.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1979 @ 0.00286784 = 5.6755 BTC [-] {7}
Diablo-D3: Which I believe no one in the Bitcoin community can meet.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: I dont think you realize how dangerous the SEC currently is to America.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 521 @ 0.00285103 = 1.4854 BTC [-]
Namworld: One complaint about it and good luck managing to get any funding for DMC 2.0 in any sort of legal way. The fact DMC 1.0 shares were sold to non-accredited people doesn't give you any legal basis to void them.
Namworld: You know it.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: You can claim what you want.
Diablo-D3: But DMC has no USD denominated assets, nor physical assets.
Diablo-D3: What DMC has is virtual assets paid for using virtual money.
Namworld: Doesn't matter that there's no USD assets. That just means it might be hard/impossible to seize. Not that no wrongdoings would be found.
Diablo-D3: Paid for by people who I believe were in on this scam from the beginning.
Diablo-D3: And then dragged me into it using lies.
Diablo-D3: So, I'm washing my hands of this.
Diablo-D3: When the SEC comes, it will be all up to the rest of you to deal with.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.0028018 = 2.8018 BTC [-] {7}
jurov: http://www.theonion.com/articles/national-parks-closed-for-annual-remajestification,17484/ the onion prescient as always
ozbot: National Parks Closed For Annual Remajestification | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
Diablo-D3: Namworld: I mean, you don't even have a right to even have this argument with me
Diablo-D3: "amazingrando stole all the money, oh well"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1499 @ 0.0027001 = 4.0474 BTC [-] {6}
Namworld: That Nefario lied to you doesn't discharge you from responsibilities to DMC 1.0 holders. You know it. What's been done is done.
Diablo-D3: You owe DMC 106 BTC, far more than your shares in DMC are worth.
biteesak: http://venturebeat.com/2013/09/23/crowdfunding-with-jobs-act-title-ii-the-web-will-eat-financing-and-investing/
ozbot: Crowdfunding: With JOBS Act Title II, the web will ‘eat financing and investing’ | VentureBeat
Namworld: I owe only what BTC-MINING has in assets, nothing. You can go after me for mismanagement or whatever else.
Diablo-D3: bitesak: people close to the matter have already admitted its going to be worthless
Namworld: Just like you owe DMC 1.0 holders DMC 1.0's assets.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: but you dont get it, do you
Diablo-D3: Im not going after you because I've admitted that you were in on it.
Namworld: in on what?
Diablo-D3: Same with yochdog, he knew what he was going to do since day one
Diablo-D3: who knows how much money he made off with.
Namworld: Ah, accusations, you say?
Diablo-D3: But DMC's two largest assets? btc-mining and btcmc.
Diablo-D3: two of which can never be liquidated because, frankly, they don't exist.
Diablo-D3: And I don't think they ever did.
ThickAsThieves: http://bitbet.us/bet/487/dms-will-still-be-traded-at-the-end/
ozbot: BitBet - DMS will still be traded at the end of 2013
Diablo-D3: But I'm washing my hands of this
Diablo-D3: DMC cannot afford to sue.
Namworld: They did exist. They all do. What you propose is theft, pure and simple.
Diablo-D3: What I propose has already been completed after a year of babysitting it.
dub: whats DMS?
Diablo-D3: Namworld: I'll tell you one thing though
Diablo-D3: Namworld: when the SEC asks you to do something, you don't discuss it with others, you just do it.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: and its in your best interest to just do it.
ThickAsThieves: SEC told someone to do something?
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: the SEC has told a lot of someones to do something.
ThickAsThieves: so wise, this man
Namworld: Well the SEC might disagree with you arbitrarily voiding shareholders who sent you funds. SEC wants compliance, they don't say "Well all that occured without us never existed, don't sweat it."
Diablo-D3: Namworld: This discussion is over.
ThickAsThieves: reeeow
Diablo-D3: The shareholder contract has not been violated, more than 100% of shareholder funds have been returned.
Namworld: To some, while others get nothing?
Namworld: You get away with all the extra DMC 1.0 made?
Namworld: If I'm not mistaken, DMC 1.0 as per contract is entitled to all those profits that were made over initial investment.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: DMC has made no extra, and ends in debt.
ThickAsThieves: I used to trade and hold DMC, then I read trilema articles from back in the day
Diablo-D3: Namworld: you are in error.
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: yes, like, mp knows anything about stocks.
Namworld: In debt? How so?
Diablo-D3: Namworld: money owed to DMC exceeds what DMC has in "assets" (if you can call them that)
ThickAsThieves: ...
Namworld: Unless DMC "OWES SOMETHING TO SOMEONE", it's not in debt.
Namworld: That's the reverse, some are in debt to DMC, DMC is not in debt.
Namworld: DMC made a profit.
Diablo-D3: DMC made a very small profit.
Diablo-D3: And it took over 2 and a half years to even get that far.
Diablo-D3: DMC ends in failure.
Namworld: Still a profit. Holders are entitled to it.
Diablo-D3: Thats just the way it is.
Diablo-D3: Yes, and holders were paid it, in full.
Namworld: No, assets remain
Namworld: They were not paid in full.
Namworld: In fact, some weren't repaid at all.
Diablo-D3: Read the contract.
Namworld: I read it already.
Diablo-D3: Each share represents 0% of the ownership in the company assets. In the event of liquidation, 100% of the revenue from sales of the assets and 100% of the growth fund, minus any expenses incurred from the operation or liquidation of the company will be paid to shareholders.
Diablo-D3: So tell me, Namworld, what does that paragraph say
Namworld: No liquidation occured. So assets remain with DMC and still pay out dividends. Hundreds of ASICMINER left.
ThickAsThieves: it says you will liquidate assets and payout the profit
Diablo-D3: Namworld: notice the line about dividends
Diablo-D3: 1) 50% of all mining revenue will be distributed to shareholders in the form of dividends (henceforth referred to as "dividends"). These dividends will be paid monthly, split evenly among all shares regardless of class or issuing date.
Diablo-D3: There has been no mining revenue... ever.
Diablo-D3: In the history of DMC.
Namworld: Well then, DMC's assets are stuck in DMC, idling. You still can't repurpose them for DMC 2.0
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3947 @ 0.00083997 = 3.3154 BTC [+] {3}
Diablo-D3: Namworld: I can repurpose them for DMC to remain in DMC.
Namworld: Then you can't void DMC 1.0 holders
Diablo-D3: Nothing in the contract prohibits that.
Namworld: Nothing in the contract allows you to either.
biteesak: this does not seem very honest..
Namworld: Thus you cannot void 1.0 holders arbitrarily.
Diablo-D3: bitesak: what the entire community has done isnt very honest
biteesak: so the opportunity to stick out is rather big
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00084191 = 3.8307 BTC [+] {3}
Diablo-D3: Namworld: Fine, hows this.
Diablo-D3: DMC is now closed. The expenses incurred from the operation and liquidation of the company is the current value of all assets.
Diablo-D3: I shall now pay out the final sum total of BTC: 0.
Diablo-D3: It has now been paid.
Namworld: So, could you please tell me what those expenses are? Because I know there's ASICMINERs left and liquidating those on the market would cost almost nothing.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: payment to the CEO for doing his job.
Diablo-D3: Which makes me the lowest paid CEO in the history of business.
biteesak: is that the best you can do ?
Namworld: I'd have to say, quite possibly the worst move one could do if they want to start a proper business requiring the funding you're seeking.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: Im not even sure if Im going to.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: making a profit means basically 60% of the money goes to the government
Diablo-D3: unless you're just so large you can get away without paying taxes
Diablo-D3: which I doubt any company in this industry will ever become
Diablo-D3: Namworld: so whats the point of building a company if the rich can just steal it all anyhow
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2628 @ 0.00083919 = 2.2054 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: Namworld: I just don't see the point of the startup game anymore.
Diablo-D3: The government changes the rules to suit themselves, everyone is out to cheat steal and lie, and a tiny fraction of a percent ever win.
biteesak: so might as well do the same whenever possible
Diablo-D3: Namworld: I'm sorry DMC did not succeed, but thats the way it is.
Namworld: So your answer is to act like the government but against government regulation to open DMC 2.0 as per government regulation??
Namworld: That's a bit fucked up.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: like I said, DMC 2.0 may not happen.
Diablo-D3: This whole experience has left a bad taste in my mouth.
Namworld: And if DMC 2.0 does not happen, why not close down by liquidating what's left and doing a forced buyback as per contract?
dub: its the libertarian dream
dub: fuck everyone because taxes
Namworld: I know it's been bad. But I haven't taken any salary either for fixing the aftermath as best as I could.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: Because I have decided, thanks to you, that this is the cost of DMC in the end.
Diablo-D3: It doesn't pay to be the nice guy always trying to do the right thing.
Namworld: I'm richer now and trusted. I've made back my losses with amazingrando because people seem to appreciate working with me.
Namworld: I'd say it pays to be nice.
Diablo-D3: So then pay DMC the 106 BTC you owe through BTC-MINING.
Namworld: I can't afford to pay over 1500 BTC.
Diablo-D3: Then thats the way it is.
Namworld: The difference being, in this case, you're admitting to yourself taking the remaining assets.
Namworld: Either keeping for yourself as salary or for DMC 2.0 or whatever.
Namworld: Do as you please, but that's low, compensating yourself like that when shit happen and leaving the others. I hope remaining holders aren't too damaged by that.
Namworld: If you're fed up and just want to take it, no need to feed bullshit arguments that don't hold any credibility.
Diablo-D3: whats the current value of an AM share anyhow?
Namworld: 1 BTC
Namworld: At 1000 AM and 11 DMC to 1 AM trade, there should be a bit over 300 AM or 300 BTC left.
Namworld: With over 3000 DMC left outstanding
dexX7: Namworld: it's 430 AM according to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.msg3289371#msg3289371
Namworld: Wow, more than I thought.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1622 @ 0.00083919 = 1.3612 BTC [-]
Namworld: It's no effort auctioning/selling the remaining assets to highest bidder and paying out liquidation to current shareholders for a closing as per contract.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5225 @ 0.00084096 = 4.394 BTC [+] {2}
Diablo-D3: Namworld: there, I edited the final notice as per your requests.
Namworld: Suit yourself
Diablo-D3: Namworld: how many shares of DMC do you have left?
Namworld: Not sure.
Diablo-D3: go find out.
Namworld: 456
Namworld: Yes, that's what I was checking.
Diablo-D3: go find out if you can still transfer shares to me while the asset is locked
Namworld: I haven't had a single holder before today which claimed that I owed them something, that made accusations or complained at all.
Diablo-D3: Ill trade you them for 42 AM.
Namworld: Hmm, let me do a counter proposal...
Namworld: I'll transfer them to you, nothing asked in return, on the condition you liquidate and payout the remaining holders.
Namworld: I want to see DMC's assets be properly liquidated and paid out.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: nope, Ill do it for 11:1 AM.
Diablo-D3: which Im still offering to shareholders.
Namworld: You're still offering it? You said all shares were void if I'm not mistaken.
Diablo-D3: did you not read the edit?
Namworld: Ah, I see the corrections. Assets will not be repurposed for DMC 2.0 hmm
dexX7: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.msg3289371#msg3289371 was edited to "As per the shareholder contract, DMC is now closing and liquidating."
ozbot: Diablo Mining Company
Namworld: Yes, that's satisfactory.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: but whats left of DMC _will_ resolve its debt to me.
Namworld: BTCMC/unclaimed AM trade-ins?
Diablo-D3: yes, unless someone offers something worthwhile for the BTCMC
Namworld: I'd quite prefer a proper liquidation.
Diablo-D3: I seriously doubt anyone will offer anything for BTCMC that even comes close to what is owed or what yochdog claims is left
Namworld: I suppose only AM holds any actual value right now.
Namworld: Very well.
Diablo-D3: I think I calculated that if yochdog cant find a buyer for the hardware, its basically worth about 1.5BTC
Diablo-D3: maybe 2 or 3 if he does
Namworld: You should probably mention the 11:1 trading prominently however.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: cant mention it any more prominently than it is
Namworld: Shares transfered.
Namworld: Well it is more prominent now indeed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00084316 = 4.005 BTC [+] {2}
Diablo-D3: there, I think thats the final edit.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: whats the email you gave to friedcat/
Namworld: I have none I think. Well I auctioned my ASICMINERs long ago...
Namworld: Not sure if he still has it.
Namworld: Let me PM the email to you anyway.
Diablo-D3: k
Namworld: ok, well I'm off for now. This has dragged on quite late. Good night.
Diablo-D3: Namworld: I sent the PM to friedcat
Namworld: Thank you.
dexX7: Diablo-D3: considering you wanted to void all shares, i must say it's a honorable move to change your mind and offer the 1:11 exchange
ThickAsThieves: good on him, but to be fair that is the way it was before
dexX7: that's a different topic
Diablo-D3: I have no clue how long I can offer it though
Diablo-D3: At the very most, its less than 30 days (nov 1st)
Diablo-D3: but bitfunder could just glbse tommorow
Namworld: Well if they keep to their word, only purchasing more assets will be halted for US residents.
ThickAsThieves: that already is the case
Diablo-D3: Namworld: prepare for the worst.
ThickAsThieves: it's the selling that goes dark on the 1st
Namworld: Withdrawing/redeeming shares/etc will be accomodated with as much as possibe.
Namworld: Hopefully it works long enough for things to close down as best as possible.
Diablo-D3: btw, Im wondering what the biggest remaining shareholders will do
Diablo-D3: one guy has 550, one guy has 1774
Diablo-D3: those two could put a serious dent in the remaining shares
dub: they could put a serious dent in the evolutionary process if allowed to breed too
Namworld: They can claim 211 AM
Diablo-D3: Namworld: you missed the point
Namworld: Ah, you mean in outstanding shares
Diablo-D3: ;;calc 3947 - 1774 - 550 - 456
gribble: 1167
Diablo-D3: that seems wrong
Diablo-D3: there isn't enough left
Diablo-D3: ;;calc 1167 - 144 - 100 - 91
gribble: 832
Diablo-D3: yeah, theres no way theres 832 left
Diablo-D3: ;;calc 1167 - 144 - 100 - 91 - 107
gribble: 725
Diablo-D3: yeah no way
jurov: http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/inside-bitcoins-conference-to-be-held-in-las-vegas-jered-kenna-will-be-keynote-speaker-18934
ozbot: Inside Bitcoins Conference to Be Held in Las Vegas, Jered Kenna Will be Keynote Speaker | Forex Minu
Diablo-D3: Namworld: Im going to laugh if I find out bitfunder fucked up the count
jurov: "With 20mission, Jered Kenna aims to foster a collaborative living environment for startup executives, developers, designers and artists." sooo gay
ThickAsThieves: "He is one of the most eloquent speakers in the Bitcoin economy."
Diablo-D3: ;;calc 3947 - 456
gribble: 3491
Diablo-D3: ;;calc 430 - 32
gribble: 398
Diablo-D3: ;;calc 430 - 42
gribble: 388
dexX7: ;;calc 430 - 3947 / 11
gribble: 71.1818181818
dub: who ever heard of living with the people you work with anyway
Diablo-D3: dub: yeah, thats like
dub: its an entirely retarded prospect
Diablo-D3: marrying your cofounder
dub: unless you market is homeless fucktards like taaki
mod6: haha
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00084415 = 3.461 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: So, Buttfunder is dead before I could even make money on a Bitbet for that shit.
Diablo-D3: basically
Namworld: Correction, until further notice, it only stops servicing US customers and requires ID.
Namworld: I guess that's synonymous to dead tho
Diablo-D3: yup
Namworld: Well I've had enough of all this. Off to sleep. Will probably close my PTs and the rest and only leave my loan active, perhaps.
Namworld: I prefer to manage only something on which I have a clear 100% responsibility on no matter what.
Namworld: Easier and straightforward
Namworld: Good night.
BingoBoingo: Eh, It's taken me too long being on IRC to find the right Buttfunder joke. I'm kind of enjoying the Irony that 'Muricans that despise MPEx and MP that despises 'Muricans seem like they are going to have to get along some way. Probably in a way that involves 'Muricans learning options because MPEx ain't getting LabCoin, but still.
BingoBoingo: It is Fall 2012 all over again.
Diablo-D3: yup
Diablo-D3: happens about every year
BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: I wouldn't be surprised if it accelerates in the next year where even moar dispoasable exchanges pop up.
BingoBoingo: It seems at this rate Meni Rosenfield will be able to raise 5KbTC capital on UsagiFunder before Thanksgiving.
mircea_popescu: whee
mircea_popescu: in other news : today we will have the S.NSA first product announcement.
bitesak: great
KRS-: Meni makes a lovely Musaca.
mircea_popescu: every pirate ship needs a good cook ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Please I've been waiting on it. I have already bet on it. Only donation m blog received so far got rolled into the Yes of this: http://bitbet.us/bet/545/no-such-labs-higher-market-cap-than-s-mg/ because fuck invesitng or hedging. Let the betting begin,
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 1.11001 = 2.22 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lolwhat a concept.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I don't have enough fingers to count how many bitbets I have been nearly all of both sides. I don't know what pankkake is smoking about yall abing slective.
mircea_popescu: wait srsly ?! betting with yourself ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yes, That is the beauty of mutual betting. Betting with myself until other people in the market correct the odds as they do so well.
mircea_popescu: interesting. is it productive over all these many bets ? or even been keeping track ?
mircea_popescu: i guess it wouldn't take that much to cover the 1% bitbet rakes.
BingoBoingo: The latest example is here where I am all of the yes and a good portion of the no. I could lose on a no, but it would be covered by http://bitbet.us/bet/113/bitbet-will-we-worth-more-than-satoshi-dice/ winnings.
BingoBoingo: By here I mean and forgot to link http://bitbet.us/bet/151/st-louis-cardinals-will-win-the-2013-world/
BingoBoingo: Linking errors and mistypes are a peril, but for whom?
mircea_popescu: for everyone involved
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo o right, you were doing sports picks on your blog i recall
mircea_popescu: well, bitbet can certainly use more of that.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, If the Cardinal win the World series... I can probably find some BitBets on Bowl Games.
BingoBoingo: Then again I've also spoiled the line bets on forum advertised picks because I was too late. Also because fuck bookies.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 37 @ 0.0094001 = 0.3478 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I did sports picks on the blog, but my method is strictly just eyeballing match ups before I have the opportunity to form a real opinion. I may be a shutty method, but it has served me well. Who knows what I could achieve if only I had a monkey and a dart board.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: go to the bookies in your town, get one to back you.
mircea_popescu: maybe throw in a dartboard
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.0008408 = 4.5824 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: LoL, I'd have to go to Vegas... This whole Illinois and/or Missouri being the most corrupt state in the union deal. They won't allow house edges lower than the sanctioned lotto offers. And so I plan to keep doing to line betting sites what it did to that Blockbet.net place which mysteriously disappeared sometime around the NCAA basketball tournament.
mircea_popescu: heh.
BingoBoingo: Pretty sure I didn't kill it with basketball though.
BingoBoingo: If my ever so faulty memory serves me right they lifted lines from Vegas books for the World Baseball Classic. They completely forgot the part where the house vig was supposed to cover their trouble and not be a contributing factor to money they would bleed when the serious gamblers caught them in the ncaa tournament.
BingoBoingo: I file the incident under reasons I don't buy mining equipment.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: so basically wait wait just a second here.
mircea_popescu: are you saying the site FAKED its supposed bust, because it was betting its own book and lost ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Honestly that is how I think Blockbet.net went down.
mircea_popescu: wow.
mircea_popescu: add another reason to "why not use random line betting btc site sprouted after last week's rain"
mircea_popescu: i did think the "bust" was a little suspicious.
BingoBoingo: If I were into Bitcoin both earlier and stupider I can't say I wouldn't have tried something similar, but GPG contacts and all
BingoBoingo: If dorks ever realized how much power they could get from simply having old, long GPG keys...
BingoBoingo: I also ripped into solar wind mining again, because it is their fault http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/10/09/a-sample-gpg-signature/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13400 @ 0.0008476 = 11.3578 BTC [+] {6}
bitesak: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/10/07/the-nsas-hugely-expensive-utah-data-center-has-major-electrical-problems-and-basically-isnt-working/
ozbot: The NSA's Hugely Expensive Utah Data Center Has Major Electrical Problems And Basically Isn't Workin
BingoBoingo: Who would have anticipated giant Faraday cages could also be giant antennas?
BingoBoingo: Also apparently Google has been hiding their GPG wizardry this whole time: https://services.google.com/corporate/publickey.txt
kleeck: .d
ozbot: 189281249.28103 | Next Diff in 1517 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.4643% in 8d 16h 39m 31s
mircea_popescu: bitesak lmao
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that's not new by any means.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe not to you, but I've been wondering why the gmail address I dump all my ciphertext to isn't getting cipher text in my notifications from them.
mircea_popescu: a well. dif story :)
mircea_popescu: so basically the nsa has created the world's largest bug zapper
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Aren't they all. Except that pointless and whitless one?
mircea_popescu: and is using it on its own techs
mircea_popescu: bugs that they are.
mircea_popescu: superb.
jurov: if nsa repurposed the DC to bitcoin mining, no wonder
BingoBoingo: I'm just wondering how much data their zapper lst that they actually wanted.
BingoBoingo: Like Tor I imagine it wasn't all of it, but enough of it to clear two or three people.
BingoBoingo: I've seen yesterday's posts about random wanabee deaers getting busted. I wanted to make a post about retain a fucking lawyer now. Everystory I read about actual Silk Road people involve to much stupid though.
nubbins`: why retain a lawyer when you can just sell a bunch of coke instead?
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Case you can get a lawyer to just make bail for cheap. Then if you get busted have the good one keep you out of jail.
nubbins`: i was joking :(
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 1.11001 = 2.22 BTC [-]
nubbins`: i know a guy who got busted a couple of years ago
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: This is IRC everyone is joking, or incredibly serious.
nubbins`: he didn't retain a lawyer
nubbins`: and now he's not allowed to drink, do drugs, or leave his house
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 10 @ 0.011 = 0.11 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Fuck him them. My drive through law trick must be a miracle man then (and this is the dude I didn't trust beyond making my bail).
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.11001 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Have any of yall been on TradeFortress's network CoinChat, because I am running out of ways to call RealSolid and scammy fuck and Mcxnow something to avoid at all costs.
bitesak: somehow I feel the next announcement on s.NSA will inspire more than the bug zapper NSA story
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/2012/why-its-not-actually-in-your-best-interest-to-allow-a-hired-third-party-to-speak-for-you-in-criminal-proceedings/
mircea_popescu: best learn teh law.
bitesak: mircea_popescu, have you stopped using twitter for mpex feed ? seems last trade was in june
bitesak: https://twitter.com/MPEx1
BingoBoingo: thank you mircea_popescu
ozbot: MPEx (MPEx1) on Twitter
BingoBoingo: bitesak: all of the payment addresses to yes on this bet http://bitbet.us/bet/545/no-such-labs-higher-market-cap-than-s-mg/ actually go to me.
mod6: bitesak: i've got a twit feed going @bitotter
bitesak: thanks
bitesak: BingoBoingo, you mean in the sense you are taking care of the NO side and will reap the YES?
BingoBoingo: bitesake: That is what I have set up now. I am th only yes on that bet, and I could win it simply in the week after IPO.
mircea_popescu: bitesak twitter basically decided i'm spamming them
mircea_popescu: i had been trying to get it "sorted out" but they're kind of unhelpful so... what can i do.
BingoBoingo: bitesak: Let us not forget this gem I sextupled my money on http://bitbet.us/bet/113/bitbet-will-we-worth-more-than-satoshi-dice/ by having simply identified in December Erik was too unreliable to spearhead a public asset backed by a GPG signed contract. For every other bet it is just the same sort of eyeballin'
bitesak: how does that compare to buying shares in S.Bitbet and S.NSA rather than the bitbet venue as the depth seems way bigger the S. way
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Aparently some other asshole has a twitter account in the name BingoBoingo, so I'll have to settle for BingoBlog or something when I get to it.
mircea_popescu: it's not such a great name anyway
mircea_popescu: (contrary to what you may think)
BingoBoingo: bitesak: No particular way other than a gambler. If people want to hedge fuck them because I'm gambling this shit.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nothing apparently is a good enough name to break some brain wallets.
mircea_popescu: :p
mircea_popescu: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/166580-researchers-find-new-ultra-low-level-method-of-hacking-cpus-and-theres-no-way-to-detect-it
ozbot: Researchers find new, ultra-low-level method of hacking CPUs – and there’s no way to detect it |
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for your lolz ^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00084947 = 2.1237 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It apparently seems that Tor exits have to be honeypots. I've been running on for half of a week and been getting nothing but boring througn MITM attacks. No matter what bandwidth I offer Tor exits, the tor seems to adapt n a way that either recognizes me attacking its exits or suggests it is sucking some NSA dick.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 72 @ 0.011 = 0.792 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.1010375 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 6 @ 0.1005001 = 0.603 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 24 @ 0.007 = 0.168 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Maybe the next few days will offer something else, but so far I'm finding little more than Iranians who would probably rather the US get their story if only it wasn't so boring.
kleeck: .d
ozbot: 189281249.28103 | Next Diff in 1513 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.2608% in 8d 16h 27m 18s
BingoBoingo: I mean how wide does the "tor foundation" advertise their exit bandwidth being? There is not way I get all of the fringe cases exiting and nothing else if this shit ain't random. I'm probably burning some logs and just advertising Tor as more compromised than imagined.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bingoboingo maybe do a full study of the matter and publish the results.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 37 @ 0.011 = 0.407 BTC [-]
nubbins`: sweet! doing a zine workshop next tuesday
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.0008474 = 1.6948 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.36101001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.2759999 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.000849 = 1.9527 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 1.2759999 = 5.104 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2612 @ 0.00084947 = 2.2188 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 51 @ 0.01100001 = 0.561 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.011 = 0.286 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 16 @ 0.01000003 = 0.16 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15953 @ 0.00085049 = 13.5679 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3325 @ 0.000183 = 0.6085 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 10694 @ 0.000183 = 1.957 BTC [-]
bitesak: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131008/18300324805/london-police-order-registrars-to-shut-down-bunch-websites-without-any-legal-basis-threaten-registrars-if-they-dont-comply.shtml
ozbot: London Police Order Registrars To Shut Down A Bunch Of Websites Without Any Legal Basis; Threaten Re
nubbins`: wow
bitesak: conspiracy to defraud seems like an extremely large concept
nubbins`: bitcoin is a pretty large concept
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 1.275999 = 7.656 BTC [-]
bitesak: easydns claims to be a NSA-Free Zone :) and actually seems to be standing up to this farce
bitesak: on the bright side, all this inspires the likes of MP & co to develop S.NSA products
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.12 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 1.10230769 = 14.33 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 1.085 = 5.425 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 1.060001 = 4.24 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.01118 = 0.3242 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 15 @ 0.01000268 = 0.15 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: joke's on you if S.NSA products have backdoors
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.01 = 0.4 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.01000001 = 0.2 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.01 = 0.2 BTC [-] {2}
_mjoiii: Guys a plea for help...
_mjoiii: Anyone know of a method for tracking the transfers to Havelock?
topace: tracking tranfers ?
_mjoiii: The lack of liquidity there is killing me and I don't see any improvement after recent news.
_mjoiii: Won't us traders be transferring shares there?
topace: quite possibly
_mjoiii: Not 1:1 tacking but just an indication of the progress
topace: to initiate share transfer, follow the instructions for the specific assets
topace: we arent doing any transfers automatically
_mjoiii: No no not me, I've been w Havelock all along and happy to have a Canadian option. Just can't buy or sell much without affecting prices.
_mjoiii: So really looking forward to having more company there.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 637 @ 0.00085195 = 0.5427 BTC [+]
nubbins`: _mjoiii: are you trying to buy or sell? ;)
_mjoiii: Both generally, today thinking of selling some neobee.
_mjoiii: Take look at that book. Sell 2t and it drops to 0.001
_mjoiii: Sorry, 25
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.01 = 0.4 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: yeah, volume is the problem with anything btc-related
nubbins`: only two funds have a 7-day volume > 100 btc
nubbins`: i suppose people coming over from bitfunder & btctctctctctc will change that somewhat
_mjoiii: That is my hope too.
ThickAsThieves: Don't expect too much change
ThickAsThieves: the factbeing that people are moving assets
_mjoiii: Why not?
ThickAsThieves: not coins
ThickAsThieves: this is a turtle market
kakobrekla: "buttfunder & btctctctctctc" - sounds like some strip joint
nubbins`: i always get confused as to what letter it ends on
nubbins`: their fault for putting half the name in the tld
kakobrekla: yeah its extra confusing
ThickAsThieves: so now that we caught up on processing all the migration data, we encountered a technical limitation with Bitfunder and we will have to require ALL TAT.ASICMINER migrators from BTCT to resubmit their info using a Havelock account
nubbins`: oof
kakobrekla: will you still be doing passthroughs?
ThickAsThieves: we haven't made any hard decisions in that regard
ThickAsThieves: we have a decision tree we have to climb through
ThickAsThieves: which requires meetings with various parties about various nuances
ThickAsThieves: there's no simple way to proceed
kakobrekla: i guess that comes with diligence
ThickAsThieves: in the meantime the immediate issues are the shareholders in limbo, and dividends
ThickAsThieves: i have no problem saying that Bitfunder has not made this easy
ThickAsThieves: whereas Havelock has
kakobrekla: Want to play bitcoin? Step 1: Move out of US. Step 2: Done.
ThickAsThieves: it's not even that simple
ThickAsThieves: but that's within the decision tree
topace: :)
ThickAsThieves: we've been working hard behind the scenes to legitimize our role into a real bitcoin investment bank
ThickAsThieves: we have a plan we've been executing
ThickAsThieves: but it does sorta require exchanges to do the same
robitnik: Does "we" include Neo?
robitnik: Or LMB
Jere_Jones: ThickAsThieves: "turtle market"? As in "turtles all the way down"?
ThickAsThieves: we is me, my partner, our team, and our lawyers
ThickAsThieves: turtle as in, hiding in its shell
ThickAsThieves: i figure "bear" market isnt quite fitting
Jere_Jones: Ah. Ok.
Jere_Jones: Nope. Still don't get it.
ThickAsThieves: what do turtles do when they are scared?
ThickAsThieves: shrink into their shell
Jere_Jones: Yes
ThickAsThieves: dont dwell on it too much
ThickAsThieves: ;)
Jere_Jones: I think I get it now. Maybe. Back to work for me. :)
nospinzy: you think people would invest in webproperties from flippa
kakobrekla: in wha?
nospinzy: anything
nospinzy: anything that is a good price
nospinzy: and has income
nospinzy: let me find an example
_mjoiii: Does that mean websites?
nospinzy: yes
nospinzy: a fund to buy websites
nospinzy: active websites
nospinzy: https://flippa.com/2978742-pr-3-affiliate-reviews-site-for-as-seen-on-tv-products-2k-month-profit
ozbot: yourenotstupid.com - Website for Sale on Flippa: PR 3 Affiliate Reviews Site for As Seen On TV Produ
nospinzy: like that for example
_mjoiii: Is the idea to bundle profitable sites and sell units?
nospinzy: no the idea is to run the sites
nospinzy: and pay out a dividen
zoinky: that site brings in 2k a month?
kakobrekla: 2k page views [via bots]
kakobrekla: :>
nospinzy: dollars
nospinzy: its an example
nospinzy: i wouldnt invest in that
zoinky: which would you invest in?
_mjoiii: Would be interesting to see portfolio/projections.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 138 @ 0.002 = 0.276 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: so basically flippa is website templates pretending to be businesses
mike_c: it is affiliate websites that have stopped being profitable for their owners.
_mjoiii: Except those that are monetized and apparently profitable.
mike_c: who are now trying to make one last buck off them.
zoinky: pretty much
zoinky: its buying toxic websites
_mjoiii: Wondered about that in the past. If their sales pitch is correct, why are they selling?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00085206 = 6.9017 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: it's a tricky area, as i myself have been in a position before of having profitable things i no longer wanted
ThickAsThieves: sometimes people just wanna move on
ThickAsThieves: or make better money on other things
ThickAsThieves: "Keith, the very first guy Sean's Outpost fed with Bitcoin Died last night"
ThickAsThieves: that's some headline
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 370 @ 0.001161 = 0.4296 BTC [+] {2}
pankkake: conclusion: don't eat Bitcoins
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 544 @ 0.00085209 = 0.4635 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 98 @ 0.00199 = 0.195 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: "Ulbricht's public defender said Ulbricht would not protest his detention as he awaits his transfer to New York. He retains the right to pursue bail after he arrives in New York."
ThickAsThieves: public defender?
ThickAsThieves: the thot plickens
kleeck: Jeeze man.
kleeck: Crack that wallet and get some representation.
pankkake: if impossible he could probably easily raise funds for his defense. weird
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2950 @ 0.0008511 = 2.5107 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 61 @ 0.010002 = 0.6101 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.0589 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00084995 = 3.2298 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 1.01575714 = 7.1103 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00085209 = 2.9823 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.95775 = 3.831 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 16 @ 0.0100021 = 0.16 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 98 @ 0.00207 = 0.2029 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.951 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] [PAID] 32.48744832 BTC to 6`684 shares, 486048 satoshi per share
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 487 @ 0.0008521 = 0.415 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.92476999 = 9.2477 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 10 @ 0.01117 = 0.1117 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 900 @ 0.0008521 = 0.7669 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1004 @ 0.00118994 = 1.1947 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 53 @ 0.0100021 = 0.5301 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 54 @ 0.09661668 = 5.2173 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 695 @ 0.00963942 = 6.6994 BTC [-] {18}
kakobrekla: Meni Rosenfeld. has a new thing
kakobrekla: http://bitblu.com/
ozbot: Bitblu - crypto investment management
kakobrekla: and ripple guy
kakobrekla: from https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=308581.0
pankkake: wait they have a job offer for a third "founder and c?o" lol
ThickAsThieves: hrm
mircea_popescu: lol good one
ThickAsThieves: i bet the salary = you get to be a founder!
mircea_popescu: is that the ceo salary ?
mircea_popescu: sometimes it looks like every aluminum siding, vacuum & bible and car salesman is now doing bitcoin.
ThickAsThieves: you'll get a kick out of the headshots for the vegas conference
ThickAsThieves: http://www.mediabistro.com/insidebitcoins/speakers.asp
mircea_popescu: if they get shot in the head they won't be able to have open casket funerals.
kakobrekla: The vision of bitcoin is going to be set at conferences like this.
kakobrekla: —Alan Safahi of ZipZap tells The Wall Street Journal.
mircea_popescu: lmao. jerkoffs will jerkoff.
mircea_popescu: also, zipzap = ziggap or zipzap = clueless fuckwits who have no idea history exists ?
Scrat: circlederp
mircea_popescu: Scrat dude, the "vision". the vision matters! herpes!
jborkl: "More bad luck! My power supply just died! I highly recommend not buying this power supply! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817152044
jborkl: Off to the store to hopefully find one that isn't an arm and a leg on such short notice."
jborkl: KNC Supernova
mircea_popescu: supernova. nice name.
kakobrekla: lool
jborkl: Ty ty
kakobrekla: zipzap is this it seems http://www.zipzapinc.com/
kakobrekla: dunno how is it related to btc
mircea_popescu: so here it is :
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/snsa-first-product-the-cardano/
ozbot: S.NSA first product - The Cardano pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: also, mpex deposits flushed if anyone was waiting.
jcpham: if only my internets worked
jcpham: i could read trilema
mircea_popescu: well, get a government that's not shutdown
mircea_popescu: then maybe your internets'd work.
Kleeck_: yes, the government runs the internetz
mircea_popescu: everything, outdoor monuments, the internets, rain...
Kleeck_: haha
mircea_popescu: best & biggest government in teh whole world! real power rangers those people.
Kleeck_: the fuckin Ocean
Kleeck_: The USG is spending more money trying to prove that the "shutdown" is a big deal.
mircea_popescu: pls to not suggest the govt doth not help and doth not matter,
mircea_popescu: or it's the booby hatch for you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4258 @ 0.00084941 = 3.6168 BTC [-] {3}
Kleeck_: I wasn't suggesting that at all.
Kleeck_: But the booby hatch sounds nice.
mircea_popescu: that's because you don't know what a boobie is.
Kleeck_: I... I thought I did...
mike_c: what's the target cost for the cardano?
mircea_popescu: it's a... bird.
mircea_popescu: mike_c tba :)
Kleeck_: Yes, and a breast.
Kleeck_: Of, possibly, a female.
kakobrekla: i miss the option of forcing my own key innit
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yup
mircea_popescu: the 0 1 8 problem. if you can so can someone else. no good.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1500 @ 0.00084933 = 1.274 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: 0 1 8?
mircea_popescu: ;;google zero one infinity
gribble: Zero one infinity rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_one_infinity_rule>; Zero One Infinity Rule: <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeroOneInfinityRule>; Zero-One-Infinity Rule - Catb.org: <http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zero-One-Infinity-Rule.html>
kakobrekla: id live with the fact someone can replace it
kakobrekla: but not read it
mircea_popescu: why's your key so great you want to keep it anyway ? i bet you it wasn't gen'd on hardware rngs for instance.
kakobrekla: its not that i want to keep it
kakobrekla: i just want to define it
mircea_popescu: but whay ?
kakobrekla: so i can keep it!
jborkl: he meant defile it
pankkake: 0 1 ∞
mircea_popescu: you mean keep it as in backup it ?
Namworld: So he can keep using it/store it/transfer it to a replacement device
Namworld: Assuming he got an offline backup
mircea_popescu: one problem i see with this directly is that people will keep insecure copies and then go "o noes someone hacked my cardano and stole my key!11"
Namworld: And keep the Cardano while on the move
mircea_popescu: i think the better solution is to use a master and sign a cardano for the move.
kakobrekla: my copy is on paper and on a safe place
mircea_popescu: sorta use the cardano as a subbie in that context.
kakobrekla: and i want to keep that backup
Namworld: What if the master cardano breaks?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla well i didn't mean you. i meant people!
Namworld: You're kind of screwed
mircea_popescu: Namworld master doesn't have to be a cardano necessarily.
Namworld: True
mircea_popescu: it can be, sure, but if you don't trust it you can just use it as a sub to your main key which you keep traditionally.
Namworld: Well I suppose that could work
Namworld: Definitly
kakobrekla: yet you cant use it for mpex if you dont have main key
kakobrekla: except if you reg a new key
mircea_popescu: you can as long as you reg it there.
kakobrekla: which is 'disposable'
kakobrekla: which sux
mircea_popescu: hm ?
kakobrekla: no way to have backup to mpex acc then
Namworld: If the cardano breaks, you're out of shares and need to pay for a new account.
kakobrekla: if the device breaks
Namworld: No backups
mircea_popescu: well yes, using a device of this type for that purpose seems like you're asking for trouble.
mike_c: the cardano should backup the private key to the cloud.
mike_c: (kidding)
kakobrekla: lol
mircea_popescu: sorta like carrying cats in your pant pocket
mircea_popescu: anyway, we'll get a better idea as to how reliable the things are after they've been in the wild a year or two. atm all i can say is they should be pretty reliable.
Vexual: prp?
kakobrekla: yeah its a serious device for serious security but its so serious you cant have backups and so its not usable for serious stuff.
kakobrekla: :p
mircea_popescu: it's so secret you can't have backups.
mircea_popescu: this is a frontline itam. you go into enemy territory with it.
mike_c: still.. a straight up better replacement for securID?
mircea_popescu: mike_c i think so.
mircea_popescu: also much better scp than scp.
mircea_popescu: also much better 2fa.
Vexual: i like the faraday cage bit
mircea_popescu: in principle you could design your garage door/house door to take a usb stick
mircea_popescu: and just open them with a purpose cardano.
Vexual: a thin lead case perhaps, so one can be sure it's in ones pocket
mircea_popescu: whiuch, even if someome smacks you over the head, can't be cloned
mircea_popescu: because no backup
kakobrekla: so they just terminate you on spot
kakobrekla: without giving you a chance!
kakobrekla: pft!
mircea_popescu: carry a bigger stick.
mircea_popescu: Cardano on a stick!
Vexual: my solar storm has begun
mike_c: another question you won't answer yet (even though potential investors would love to know), target release date?
mike_c: 2013? 14? 15?
mike_c: well, not 13.
mircea_popescu: mike_c should be here before xmas, so you can all make nice gifts to peopkle.
mike_c: no way
mike_c: wow
mircea_popescu: yup/
Vexual: how much?
mike_c: he's not saying yet
bitesak: Good evening ! will these devices be assembled in Romania?
mircea_popescu: bitesak they shall be assembled at a secret & undisclosed set of locartions
Vexual: made in notchina
mircea_popescu: for teh obvious reasons.
jborkl: http://175btc.com/
mircea_popescu: Vexual nah, it's not oursourced.
mircea_popescu: we're actually making it.
Vexual: wise
jborkl: mircea - you in the pool with those guys
mircea_popescu: jborkl umm i can't read that stuff, what's it say ?
jborkl: I am just looking at the picture'
mircea_popescu: lol.
mircea_popescu: yeah. im the duck.
jborkl: I wonder why it is 3 white dudes and one mexican dude mining at a chinese pool?
jborkl: with martinis
jborkl: and a rubber ducky
Vexual: not a mexican, just a rich dude with a tan
jborkl: that one has the least amount of btc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 12 @ 0.0088 = 0.1056 BTC [-]
Vexual: so it seems
mircea_popescu: lmao jborkl
mircea_popescu: the mexican is there to bean flavour the sausage soup they're making.
jborkl: They are all staring at each other and appear to be wearing lipstick :/
jborkl: ok, who p2pd in the pool
pankkake: at least it wasn't a whale taking a dump
bitesak: would one be able to order and pay via fiat or is this strictly through bitcoin ?
Vexual: lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 601 @ 0.00853068 = 5.1269 BTC [-] {10}
mircea_popescu: bitesak bitcoin.
bitesak: this will help make GPG more accessible and usable
mircea_popescu: hopefully.
mircea_popescu: i would think you know, if anyone that groks gpg gives one to their numerous gfs
mircea_popescu: gpg could take over the world.
bitesak: precisely, I was speaking about GPG with my gf and this would be a good christmas gift
mircea_popescu: yeah cause very easy to use, very hard to fuck anything up.
bitesak: :)
bitesak: and thanks to Bitcoin_
jborkl: http://forum.kncminer.com/album/4173-anyone-hashing-in-the-datacentre-yet
ozbot: anyone-hashing-in-the-datacentre-yet
jborkl: 2 jupiters for 350gh - bam tearing it up
mircea_popescu: howlong have those been up ?
mircea_popescu: curious if anyone ran a knc thing for more than a week or so by now
Vexual: look for smoke signals
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.94 = 1.88 BTC [+]
FabianB: mircea_popescu: so this is a simplified and bigger version of http://www.gnupg.org/howtos/card-howto/en/smartcard-howto-single.html ?
mircea_popescu: as best i can see it has little in common really.
mircea_popescu: need not go any further than http://www.gnupg.org/howtos/card-howto/en/smartcard-howto-single.html#id2507296
mircea_popescu: that thing's a joke, really.
Vexual: will the girlfriend christmas package include lingerie, your email and a digital camera?
mircea_popescu: Vexual we're working on something.
Vexual: good, i like drama
FabianB: mircea_popescu: maybe, but there seem to be 4096 versions too, and can handle kakobreklas wish for programmability (which of course decreases security)
mircea_popescu: which kinda is the point.
asciilifeform: anybody make one with a zapper?
mircea_popescu: as best i can see the smartcard is a sort of fun and games project, let's play with smartcards. it doesn't have the critical features such as separation of key from slate.
mircea_popescu: such as hardware rng, such as the zapper yes,
mircea_popescu: it's a laundry list.
asciilifeform: only people I know who include the zapper are, well, classic NSA. and they don't have a retail store.
mircea_popescu: they do, but they only sell to iran
FabianB: what's a zapper?
Vexual: cyanide pill?
asciilifeform: Vexual: if you were to introduce key importation, the zapper would have to come with cyanide.
asciilifeform: whereas the answer to the inquisitor's 'where are the other copies' is correctly 'nowhere.'
Vexual: what is zapper?
Vexual: rom write?
bitesak: the ability to destroy the key?
asciilifeform: bitesak: we have a winner.
asciilifeform: see 'How does it work ?' section 'D'.
bitesak: good night !
pankkake: well, I get the point of the device, but no backup is a dealbreaker for me
FabianB: mircea_popescu: hmm.. but could gpg's smarcard api be used with cardano for signing/encryption instead of copying files?
jurov: asciilifeform: you have not considered adding a display? it's the thing i like about trezor
jurov: so that stuff to be signed can be verified right on the device
mircea_popescu: FabianB perhaps. i'll have to look into that.
mircea_popescu: jurov he tried, but couldn't get it past me.
pankkake: also how do you communicate with it? you will need some software on the host?
jurov: pankkake: it's in tfa
mircea_popescu: pankkake nah, just normal stick
jurov: mircea and why not?
Vexual: add a discharge cap to smoke the usb hub just for fun
mircea_popescu: jurov cause i'm that kind of asshole.
pankkake: oh, you put your thing it its filesystem. clever
jurov: didn't you violate contract with this executive meddling?
mircea_popescu: no. my contract clearly states all employees must have unprotected sex with me.
mircea_popescu: it's written in blood.
Vexual: tansylvania style
pankkake: I guess you can write software using it, of course, but it's clever
jurov: poor stanislav...
mircea_popescu: pankkake yeah the idea is, you can make a simple bash script to backup sites
mircea_popescu: without relying on any outside protection.
mircea_popescu: that's a good usecase, you know ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2750 @ 0.00085157 = 2.3418 BTC [+] {2}
pankkake: how would it work, to encrypt a, say, 4 GB file?
mircea_popescu: the encrypt is not handled by the cardano
mircea_popescu: decription admittedly may take a minute at that size.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00085214 = 2.9399 BTC [+] {2}
pankkake: oh I'm dumb. you only need the pubkey for that
mircea_popescu: :p
pankkake: but yeah, the decryption then…
pankkake: it would have to work in a "streaming" way
pankkake: and I don't think you can do that with a filesystem
mircea_popescu: why ?
mircea_popescu: (why streaming)
pankkake: does the cardana have gigabytes of storage?
pankkake: cardano*
mircea_popescu: C) Working slate ROM. This Flash ROM is removable, and may be inspected or replacedx by customers either before deploying the unit or at any point during.
mircea_popescu: if it doesn't you can solder your own in.
mircea_popescu: o wait. no need to solder, cause nsa made it replaceable.
pankkake: ROM is Read Only Memory right? so I don't get it
mircea_popescu: it's the same thing you find if you crack open any usb stick
pankkake: I wouldn't call it ROM
mircea_popescu: ><
mircea_popescu: but then again you're french.
Vexual: cdr is rom
pankkake: well you're ROManian…
jurov: mircea_popescu: really, what happens if i put on it 4GB file to decrypt? where will it put the decrypted file?
mircea_popescu: jurov well hopefully it has a 8gb slate, it puts it right there
mircea_popescu: pankkake no srsly, it's what they're called.
jurov: especially if gpg compressed it while encrypting
pankkake: I guess (looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory)
pankkake: but you will confuse people. Flash memory could be clearer
mircea_popescu: ram is volatile, rom is not volatile. it's what the words mean.
mircea_popescu: if it confuses people it's because people gotta learn what the words mean.
pankkake: anyway, I think an optional, streaming interface would be good
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.0089858 = 0.2336 BTC [+] {3}
Vexual: 3 letter? didn't read, too long
mircea_popescu: pankkake maybe, but it'd be a diff product. this one separates itself from computer when touching the key,
mircea_popescu: so as to rpotect from a variety of snooping techniques such as diff analysis from the host.
pankkake: it doesn't have to be different - it would simply be another service provided by the device; and would probably provide less attack vectors than the filesystem
pankkake: I mean, it can perfectly provide both
jurov: oh, and have you considered safely erasing decrypted stuff once it is used?
mircea_popescu: jurov the writing scheme is most-used rather than least-used
mircea_popescu: consequently, you can trash the bits yourself by repeatedly copying/deleting a file to it.
pankkake: jurov: there is actually a better way: use a one-time-encryption key for the filesystem. each time you reboot it, it is effectively erased
mircea_popescu: pankkake it's never rebooted.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 43 @ 0.008989 = 0.3865 BTC [+]
pankkake: then unmount/remount
pankkake: just forget the password
mircea_popescu: something like that.
Vexual: call it solid state, it sounds more expensive than rom or flash
jurov: hmmmm... cuz safely erasing today's wear-levelled flash memory is non-trivial endeavor
pankkake: it's less IO expensive than erasing the data (but more CPU expensive as anything written is encrypted)
jurov: or you use something custom?
mircea_popescu: jurov which is why this is optimised the opposite way. it will wear down the bits.
mircea_popescu: yes, tis custom.
pankkake: custom how?
mircea_popescu: custom as in, it optimises for maximum wear.
mircea_popescu: as opposed to how commercial flash drioves work (optimised for least wear)
pankkake: doesn't really respond to the "is the decrypted data recoverable"
jurov: ^this
mircea_popescu: it does. if you are concerned about this point, copy a file repeatedly until the bits die, and so then it won't be.
mircea_popescu: if you're not, you're not.
pankkake: that sucks, and as stated, you have ways to make the concern go away *and* not wear the thing
mircea_popescu: sometime life sucks.
pankkake: your product is flawed, there are easy ways to fix it and yet… no?
mircea_popescu: the product is fine. you have an issue being somehow convinced you can design stuff while simultaneously not having a clue what rom is.
mircea_popescu: this issue is not of the world.
pankkake: and I'm only getting evasing responses now. pathetic
mircea_popescu: mkay.
Vexual: associates seeking similar outcomes leaving earth
jurov: Vexual: it's your brainwallet?
Vexual: whoops wrong window
mircea_popescu: if it is he has no btc ;/
Vexual: ASSOLE
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1050 @ 0.00085235 = 0.895 BTC [+]
nubbins`: heuristic outcomes
Vexual: nice. i couldnt think of a suitable h
jurov: pankkake, we'll see when the design will come out...
pankkake: it's not hard to give clear answers
jurov: if it really it will be required to run shred /dev/sdf; mkdosfs /dev/sdf every time
jurov: then i guess bigger animals than us will start making fun of it
mircea_popescu: jurov there's a lot of sales copy there but i dunno how it's supposed to work/be implemented.
mircea_popescu: so i have no idea.
pankkake: "I don't know" is a better answer than "it's fine" when it's not
mircea_popescu: pankkake listen man, sometimes you will confront this situation where your imagination does not meet reality. people will tell you this, you will have to somehow digest it.
mircea_popescu: there's no way around it, and petulence certainly ain't it.
jurov: whose petulance?
mircea_popescu: the definition of petulence is "i've not done anything to date but i will declare your item "flawed" because i am upset that you don't agree with what i think is the case".
pankkake: again, if your product has no instand erase of its decrypted contents, it loses a great deal of attractivity - telling users they have to shred themselves is far away from the goal of having an easy secure device
mircea_popescu: can you quote where this goal you imagine for me was stated ?
jurov: <mircea_popescu> yeah cause very easy to use, very hard to fuck anything up.
mircea_popescu: hardly a goal. but anyway, let's go throuigh the thing to make sure we're all on the same page, har har.
mircea_popescu: if you have remote control of the connected pc, but no physical control of the stick,
pankkake: and the worst thing is, it's not a big deal to fix. there is no reason to start going all like "it's not a problem"
mircea_popescu: you can't read the deleted part of the work slate.
mircea_popescu: if you have physical control of the stick, you can remove the working slate, but still can't read it, because it has a cypher.
pankkake: you can read the raw filesystem of usb sticks
mircea_popescu: if you are real good and manage to extracrt the cypher out of the chip and decode the working slate, you might be able to read whatever's not been destroyed on the drive.
mircea_popescu: the definitive protection to this is a) don't lose physical control of the stick and b) destroy the slate.
mircea_popescu: this is how the thing is intended to work. there aren't and won't be unrelated cases glued on because people think they're cool.
mircea_popescu: because this isn't a cool thing, this is a useful thing.
pankkake: no, you can simply read the whole filesystem silently, when it is plugged
mircea_popescu: and you know this because ?
pankkake: because that's how USB Mass Storage works
mircea_popescu: right-o.
asciilifeform: ok I should probably chime in here. Easy answer:
asciilifeform: we have a session block cipher key for working slate in SRAM
mircea_popescu: bah ruining all my fun.
pankkake: asciilifeform: wow, so… that what I was proposing!
pankkake: see? don't deny the issue, especially if it is already fixed
mircea_popescu: eh get out
mircea_popescu: i gotta make this guy sign an nda.
mircea_popescu: pankkake : did you read the "At the end of this procedure, the working slate will have been re-formatted, and will appear empty - as Cardano no longer possesses the old block-cipher key." part ?
asciilifeform: without saying much more, the quick answer is: if some part of the draft spec seems illogical / bizzare / 'couldn't physically wurk', the answer is generally 'the obvious fix.'
pankkake: no. I TL;DRed it. but that was no reason to say that my concern was invalid - it was valid, and actually taken care of
mircea_popescu: which means it's invalid.
pankkake: ugh…
Vexual: sscience
Vexual: can i get a 9 pin plug instread of usb? :)
pankkake: you mean a 9 in plug?
asciilifeform: Vexual: for your VT-100?
Vexual: yeah im saving up for a new computer
nubbins`: hey! my bitbet was accepted
nubbins`: thrilling
mircea_popescu: how did that happen!
mircea_popescu: and i gave clear orders no futher bets to be accepted!!1 the entire system is breaking down!
nubbins`: lel
Vexual: whats the bet?
nubbins`: http://bitbet.us/bet/552/havelock-will-announce-us-restrictions-by-guy-fawkes/
ozbot: BitBet - Havelock will announce US restrictions by Guy Fawkes Night
nubbins`: it's en vogue these days
Vexual: are you the no nubs?
nubbins`: not sure how to answer
nubbins`: oh!
nubbins`: lel
nubbins`: no
nubbins`: i thought you were asking if i didn't have any nubs
pankkake: while the "ASICMINER weekly dividend drops below 0.005 per share in 2013" was getting rejected it is now too late, as the last one was 0.004
kakobrekla: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/09/oops-azerbaijan-released-election-results-before-voting-had-even-started/
ozbot: Oops: Azerbaijan released election results before voting had even started
nubbins`: hah
Vexual: private fibre
asciilifeform: speaking of Azerbaijan, has anyone here done the TOR exercise suggested in MP's comments?
nubbins`: which exercise is that?
mircea_popescu: lol azerbaijan govt is truely efficient.
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2013/dear-guardian-stop-being-retarded/#comment-95409
ozbot: Dear Guardian : stop being retarded. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
nubbins`: someone mentioned it earlier today
pankkake: given I know people who had police visits quickly after running exit nodes, I won't
asciilifeform: don't do it on a residential pipe.
pankkake: and probably don't do it on your name, but with some kind of legal shield
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.36110131 BTC [+]
pankkake: I mean, legal entity
Vexual: more 802.11s!
asciilifeform: it is best done under the flag of an organization existing for some other not entirely related purpose.
asciilifeform: with the commander's approval, naturally
asciilifeform: or if you're a cheapo you can just rent an Amazon EC2 instance.
asciilifeform: they Officially love TOR.
pankkake: won't Amazon rat you out?
asciilifeform: last i checked tor exits were explicitly permitted in their TOS
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.42999999 = 0.86 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 33 @ 0.11248786 = 3.7121 BTC [-] {8}
asciilifeform: the fact of them sneaking a peek at your results if they feel like it is another matter.
pankkake: having the server pulled off isn't the real concern, the real concern is them giving your personal info to the police
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform don't you find that amazon love quite damning ?
asciilifeform: and if you diddle traffic in an easily detected way, TOR foundation will add your node to its blacklist.
pankkake: there are many other providers who explicitely say TOR is OK
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 22 @ 0.10165454 = 2.2364 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.43 = 0.86 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: pankkake like who ? (i've not been watching this any)
pankkake: some others that automatically shut you down (I know one who monitors for both TOR and Freenet)
asciilifeform: there is no shortage of damning. TOR's authors really love it when you run it on VPS hosts, saves them some $ on running their own diddled nodes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00085235 = 0.8524 BTC [+]
pankkake: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs
pankkake: I'm running a relay on an EDIS node
mircea_popescu: Arvixe (hosting) Openly and respectfully state that while they dont permit a TOR exit on shared hosting accounts, you are very welcome to run one on a VPS account.
mircea_popescu: nice.
asciilifeform: 'shared hosting' typically means no persistent processes
asciilifeform: so, no IRC either, etc
pankkake: hehe, I remember when you could rent "shells" and the number of resident processes was limited
pankkake: for the same price you can probably get a dedicated server now
asciilifeform: my advice to anyone who does the exercise is to look up what happened to the Swedish fellow who did likewise and published the results in an academic paper.
asciilifeform: and then draw appropriate conclusions.
Vexual: you can kiss those 4 centibits goodbye nubbins
pankkake: anyway, the tor list of isps is a good source even if you don't care for TOR
asciilifeform: the TOR source is a good source even for those who don't care for TOR
asciilifeform: it is one thing to say 'gotta be a honeypot, bureaucrats wrote it' and another to see just how the pot is intended to function
asciilifeform: and under what conditions it is usable as something else.
pankkake: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/11/swedish-researc/ him?
ozbot: Tor Researcher Who Exposed Embassy E-mail Passwords Gets Raided by Swedish FBI and CIA | Threat Leve
asciilifeform: yes, him.
Vexual: no wait, the other ways around
pankkake: the tor project explicitely says you should not trust exit nodes
asciilifeform: it says quite a few things
asciilifeform: such as, for instance, that a healthy person should eschew Winblows
asciilifeform: words are cheap.
pankkake: TBB ships with HTTPS anywhere, not that it is enough…
pankkake: actually, even torbrowser on linux is quite risky
pankkake: unless you forbid any non-tor traffic, like Tails does