pankkake: that's why Tails is great: use it to do your thing and this only
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.9530003 = 1.906 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.00866 = 0.3637 BTC [-]
blastbob1: i was dreaming about a irc based exchange on the tor network
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.9530002 BTC [-]
pankkake: hmm and you would put orders through bots?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.953 BTC [-]
blastbob1: faster than any web on tor atleast
pankkake: I don't like websites or browsers, so :)
ozbot: The many ways available for talking to MPEx pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 51 @ 0.00867 = 0.4422 BTC [+]
blastbob1: Can you accually buy and sell with it also?
ozbot: Awesome - Rumours - YouTube
Azelphur: proxies? have places started blocking mpex? XD
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: I spot a kivy screenshot
nubbins`: Vexual: not my bitcents! i'm in it to win it
Vexual: yes well you must have seen snl last week too nubbins
Vexual: the thinking persons merican news and currnt affairs
Vexual: no thats just to confuse old people
nubbins`: i get most of my news through the glorious red lens of the canadian broadcasting corporation
Vexual: the red lens is the bc bud?
nubbins`: i was referring to their strong slant to the left
nubbins`: although i think i recall that in other places red is the right-wing color of choice?
Vexual: tell that to a t1000 terminator, theyre all perl
nubbins`: i thought they were written in RPG IV
pankkake: you can run a kivy application on a desktop too?
pankkake: I knew it mostly as a way to write Android applications in Python. if it can run without the android crap, it's great
mircea_popescu: i think it's pretty much useful as a way to write for smartphones, but it does run in linux.
pankkake: well I'm on a project where most of GUIs suck, and we only support one dead mobile platform. kivy was on our radars
pankkake: not really. we're like mpex, mostly CLIs :p
Vexual: also not actualy self aware
pankkake: looks like no java required for kivy on desktop. yay
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 32 @ 0.00881 = 0.2819 BTC [-]
nubbins`: "This is a list of non-pornographic, English language films"
pankkake: there's also youtube videos with only the fucks
ozbot: Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back: The F*cking Short Version - YouTube
mircea_popescu: english is so banal. i can only imagine what that'd have sounded like in romanian.
pankkake: indeed, I wonder if other language have such a popular curse worse
ozbot: fuck you - YouTube
pankkake: it's funny because it's true. French translations are pretty tame
ozbot: injuraturi - YouTube
mircea_popescu: interestingly, the chick is actually french and she doesn't speak romanian. learned it phonetically.
ozbot: Hercules Returns: "Testiculi's father".. Part 1 - YouTube
nubbins`: huh, virtex is issuing debit cards now
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.008989 = 0.2337 BTC [+]
Lennix: any updates from ukto regarding refunding the bugged fees?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 34 @ 0.009 = 0.306 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: According to Pileggi, Scorsese cold-called the writer and told him, "I've been waiting for this book my entire life." To which Pileggi replied "I've been waiting for this phone call my entire life".
pankkake: I'm becoming addicted to zero fee transactions. it's like gambling except you eventually win
kakobrekla: you can easily add bloat btc to make it free
pankkake: it's how I chose the amounts I bitbet usually, I take a full input :)
kakobrekla: you can do 1 satoshi tx and attach 100 btc to it for bloat and its free
Vexual: a satoshi saved is a satoshi earned
mircea_popescu: in the sense that old coinbase are worth that many btcdays
pankkake: indeed. I was actually thinking of how a service could try to lower its fees by coinbase optimization
kakobrekla: have one big input of 1k btc and shave off btc
pankkake: if the change address is self, then it's still considered old?
pankkake: that's why I thought of having multiple old coinbases, of many values
pankkake: oh, the bigger it is, the faster it ages?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.13085 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 29800 @ 0.00018099 = 5.3935 BTC [-] {4}
pankkake: I see. cool. I wasn't able to find a good documentation on the matter earlier
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 14 @ 0.008821 = 0.1235 BTC [-]
Vexual: hows the 250k block gonna work in 5 years?
Vexual: plebs will only be able to send coins using services affiliated with mining conglomerates?
Vexual: cool, im gonna buy noumea so i can learn improper french properly
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.43 = 2.15 BTC [+]
gribble: Current Blocks: 262659 | Current Difficulty: 1.8928124928103292E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 264095 | Next Difficulty In: 1436 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour, 37 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 220202781.137 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.33629
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 85 @ 0.009 = 0.765 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: anyone feel like fielding a couple of questions about coloured coins?
Jere_Jones: Anyone know what's going on whty Ukyo lately?
Vexual: hes maybe moving to okinawa
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.009 = 0.36 BTC [+]
Vexual: waiting on a visa for his cat
Jere_Jones: He seems to be MIA for over a week now.
Vexual: biosecurity is pretty big in japan
gribble: ukyo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 3 days, 20 hours, 26 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <Ukyo> So speculate all you want. :)
gribble: ukto was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 2 days, 17 hours, 12 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Ukto> yeah. there are easier ways. :)
nubbins`: after an admittedly short search, i wasn't able to find a whole lot of technical info on the theory behind colored coins, but i found this odd snippet in a paper:
Vexual: im joking people, hes moving to tokyo
nubbins`: "A valid Bitcoin transaction which does not follow the special colored format, will be recognized by the Bitcoin network, but not as a legitimate color-preserving transaction by the colored coin network. The color of these coins will be lost, and hence users and software clients need to be careful to avoid doing this and losing their value."
nubbins`: but why the fuck would you design it in such a way that the "color of the coins" (i.e. your shares in company x or whatever) could ever be lost?
Vexual: couloured coins isn't even a thing
nubbins`: it's because shit like i pasted doesn't make sense
nubbins`: and things that don't make sense don't get implemented
pankkake: why even use the bitcoin blockchain?
nubbins`: separate blockchain would be vulnerable to 51% attacks
pankkake: well, ok, you have to add incentives to merge mine it
nubbins`: but let's say i own 100 shares in company x
nubbins`: why can't i just send pankkake a dust transaction with "xfer 100 S.GEM" in the note field?
nubbins`: i mean, if the idea behind colored coins is that you have to make this huge tree of transactions that have some sort of magic dust in them
nubbins`: why not tie the shares to the address, not to any particular coins?
nubbins`: i send a dust tx to address 1abc, with note "xfer 100 s.gem", so address 1abc is assumed to always possess those 100 shares, permanently
nubbins`: until they send a dust tx to someone else saying xfer 50 s.gem or whatever
pankkake: from what I understand, colored coins aren't much better than asicminer-style direct shares
nubbins`: tying assets to individual coins and not addresses doesn't make any sense
nubbins`: the only thing direct shares need is a way to post bids and asks
mircea_popescu: because the handkling of fixed addresses is poorly understood because, again, idiots.
pankkake: I'm still waiting for any technical insight on colored coins, so far I only see circlejerks (like the reddit shirt fundraiser)
nubbins`: nothing that couldn't be trivially implemented in any desktop or web-based bitcoin client
nubbins`: another tab next to "receive money" on your blockchain.info account
mircea_popescu: nubbins` here's the thing : if you do it with addresses you don't really need the blockchain, might as well do it to gpg signatures.
mircea_popescu: which reduces to a slightly braindamaged reimplementation of mpex.
nubbins`: mpex servers melt tomorrow, no trading; i can still send a dust tx to transfer my colored address shares
Vexual: you got a dude with an ak guarding your private key?
nubbins`: i'm assuming you keep records of who owns what? suppose you didn't have to
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you can, but you have an escrow problem each time you do.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 58 @ 0.009 = 0.522 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: multi-sig txs are not a solution to the escrow problem really.
Vexual: og blockchain is the gold standard, accept no substitutes
mircea_popescu: they;'re a useful tool in some contexts, but you still need to have an escrow agent
nubbins`: if the transacting parties agree, there's no need for the escrow agent at all, but you're correct in that the system would hinge on having a supply of readily-available escrow agents
nubbins`: it's trivial to verify a legit tx
nubbins`: well, if it's forked, lots of things are impossible
mircea_popescu: moreover, you will have a sensible delay in all trades. what's better, one day a year of no trading or half hour lost to settle each individual trade ?
pankkake: from what I see, this is going the way of the decentralized facebook
nubbins`: y'know, i think everything but the delay could be worked around
mircea_popescu: just about. decentralised trust is about as clever as decentralised cunt.
pankkake: are anti-whatever programs having an opposite effect? yes
pankkake: it's the first step to any successful project!
nubbins`: the logo looks horrible in my head
Vexual: nothing to rub against, that bests beans in the sausage soup
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 600 @ 0.00123997 = 0.744 BTC [+] {3}
Vexual: i mean logo for beardy italian gpg stick
[\]: people still use favicon?
pankkake: why wouldn't you have favicons?
nubbins`: having no favicon implies boorishness
Vexual: if i may suggest, a bearded italian
Vexual: im pretty sure theres no copywrite on those images
Vexual: the name of the guy, who your gpg key is named after, whos name i forget becuase i didn't know of him before
Vexual: i must have really skimmed wikipedia that time
Vexual: like some trustless gyroscope
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: which suggests a great line to me : whenever someone wants to featurecreep me, i shall go "we're doing a cardan joint not a thomson coupling here"
Vexual: you know rastas replace the word vital with ital
Vexual: and italians improved had made hash production in the himilayas
Vexual: they are very good at first principals
Vexual: a beautiful culture in tune with an old language, great for thought
mircea_popescu: “Are you a federal employee that has been deemed non-essential? Do you have a little too much time on your hands and nothing to do? Is the recent government shutdown to blame? Here at Vibrators.com we are committed to allowing our customers to find satisfaction. As vibrator enthusiasts, we want everyone to experience the pleasure that a nice vibrator can bring to partners and individuals. Besides, we know you have s
mircea_popescu: ome free time, why not try something new? Vibrators.com has been giving away this free vibrator for years as a bonus gift with customers’ orders and it receives great reviews. It is fairly powerful, quiet, and uses a single AA battery (not included). It is 5 inches long and 1 inch in diameter, a smaller vibe. It is emblazoned with the Vibrators.com logo on one side, so that you will forever remember our generosity.”
Vexual: i remember something an old italian man told me, ingenious, i have to poke it in with a stick
Vexual: its probaly funnier when you've seen his wife
Vexual: whats latin for gspot?
KRS-: somoene's wife sounds like a diesel?
Vexual: if you're doing it right
ozbot: AlKpote - Bande de p****** de sales p**** - Clip officiel - YouTube
KRS-: lol true i guess never thought about it haha
KRS-: hmm..good song..my whole house is vibrating because of my HiFi
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 0.11909998 BTC [+]
Vexual: lots of speakers is best life
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96000101 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96001 BTC [+]
jaj_: how do I buy active mining right now?
jaj_: sorry I meant ASICminer
pankkake: kakobrekla> only could afford for one whore? => yeah, terrible
pankkake: renting a nice car and a few whores isn't that expensive
pankkake: lyrics suck too, though title was promising
pankkake: his main line is "group of whorish whores"
Vexual: dont watch that if youre liquidating silk road stock
pankkake: I fail to understand what is going on
Vexual: thats not industrial hardcore
Vexual: because my lost industy tapes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00085138 = 2.3839 BTC [-]
Vexual: sturting into the goth club no fee coz your suit is nice
Vexual: ponty beard like a crust explorwer
Vexual: play some more i like that dubstep
KRS-: check out skrillex-voltage, the youtube video version that shows a white mercedes
KRS-: thats the best version of that song and imo its great
KRS-: he prolly is but makes some damn good music
pankkake: though I won't deny brostep is a guilty pleasure of mine
KRS-: like i'd want to pick on him if he were around..he's odd.
KRS-: other good joints of his are bangarang and kyoto
KRS-: thats dubstep right?
pankkake: the "call 911 now" sample is cool
Vexual: let me give you a tip about the devil
KRS-: too old to be up this late too..gotta get up in a few hours.
pankkake: I wish! I have a government :(
Vexual: thats how you do an 808 and a synth, keepo in bangin
Vexual: i get in free becasue i can make the sun explode
Diablo-D3: [12:36:02] <KRS-> he prolly is but makes some damn good music
Diablo-D3: skrillex is a pretty lackluster dubstep artist
Diablo-D3: not that I would consider dubstep actually music, mind you
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.96000101 = 4.8 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: but he came in long after dubstep became a thing and then did virtually all of his music by the forumula
pankkake: Vexual makes sense like 10% of the time
Vexual: dont get me started on that shit again
Vexual: it is where im from ok
Vexual: thats not vene a notawrod word
Vexual: la roux, redhead madness
Vexual: is this dubstep? i like it
Vexual: youre coming to my goth club pannake
pankkake: it's arguably closer to dnb, like most *step I enjoy
pankkake: but really, goth sluts are best sluts
Vexual: no the owner is a right old badman
Vexual: wait this song isnt over
Vexual: im not sure he even exists in the day
Vexual: i guarantee mp dont pay
pankkake: no, I have the ideal BMI I guess
Vexual: good mix, i was justy playing aphrodite
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00085336 = 4.9068 BTC [+] {3}
zacm: goth sluts are the fattest sluts is more like it, sick
pankkake: The uploader has not made this video available in your country.
Vexual: where the fuck do you live?
Vexual: well imn on a france prxoy, so youll have tyo use your ast powers of dedution
Vexual: you could call yourself crepe
pankkake: crèpes are much better than pancakes
Vexual: well, theyre thinner, thats a surity
Vexual: as for better i cant say, my sweet tooth is non existant. i eat meat
Vexual: give me a fish or a duck
Vexual: asnjd france cooks the best duck
Vexual: i had one with a cherry sauce, so good it was naughty
Vexual: and theres no waitress becuase all the girls are off having fun
Vexual: just the fat fuckin chef thats eaten more duck than ive drunk beers
Vexual: state of the art; is the phrase that comes to mind
Vexual: peking aint got nothing on southern france
gribble: Current Blocks: 262694 | Current Difficulty: 1.8928124928103292E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 264095 | Next Difficulty In: 1401 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 7 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 221130389.971 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.82636
Vexual: i made 0 bitcoin today, but i drank so much vodka
Vexual: hwos got the keys to the jeep
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00084843 = 3.5634 BTC [-]
b0n1: man its crazy how down just dice is atm...
b0n1: pankkake, I just saw your forum post, you are still in?
pankkake: yes, I have no reason to divest
assbot: Just-Dice stat: 1458 BTC profit, 52.4k BTC invested, 165.91 mio bets, 4.03 mio BTC wagered
Vexual: my bot takes money most days
b0n1: what is your bot doing Vexual ? When does it divest and when reinvest?
Namworld: Had other stuff to do with those funds
b0n1: Well, thats so strange... what is the reason for that seemingly continuous down... :( The random generator is biased?
b0n1: It seems that the majority of investors made loss instead of profit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.96617647 = 16.425 BTC [+] {2}
Vexual: no invest just martingale with 50 hundred million tip bet
Vexual: 1 satoshi versus 300 btc is not a casino
Vexual: 30 rolls in a row neve hapopens
gribble: MtGox lag is 1121.656154 seconds. During this time, light travels 2.24778637393 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin from the Sun to Ceres (in the main asteroid belt) (2.77 AU).
gribble: mtgox premium over bitstamp is currently 12.0922752586 %.
Namworld: If you started with 10 BTC martingaling with 1 satoshi initial bet, good chance to lose 30 in a row and lose 10 BTC before doubling that 10 BTC.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 0.1005 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 0.1002 = 0.2004 BTC [-]
Vexual: yes that why i dont do it too oft
Vexual: youll also only ear 1 centibit per day average on a 1 satoshi start
Vexual: bit a 3 second roll you can do a lot of days b4 maybe losing
Vexual: nakowra was insane, you cant tak e that much every day
b0n1: Vexual, check the expected value of your strategy and you will recognize its negative...
Vexual: theta why im only up 0.05
Vexual: but the same goes for investors
Vexual: while the minimum bet is so far from th maxmum bet so unlike all traditional casinos that are a business, i don't see any success for jsust diice in any kind of time fram relevant to bitcoin
Vexual: people gonnna see the money worth twice as muc and they gonna divest before a profit
Vexual: maybe you canleavr it for years but the risk is too high
Vexual: its not a thing just gambling
Vexual: theres a reason all them casino put all them bet minimum so close to the maxi
Vexual: coz you have to get a money evry day to eat
Vexual: they dont look on a year or a week
b0n1: good point, but a clever investor invests in a way to exploit the law of large numbers and will keep the investment long enough
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 154 @ 0.00217001 = 0.3342 BTC [-]
Vexual: yeah if it lasts 5 years you win, but the model of a real casino wins more often
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 564 @ 0.00215582 = 1.2159 BTC [-] {3}
Vexual: satoshidice was protected by the blockchain
Vexual: no casino with any lifespan accepts one chip bets with 20 billlion on the table
b0n1: Vexual, why 5 years? There are so much bets going on atm, i dont think the frame will be that huge
Vexual: cool, i like maths too
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.954 BTC [-]
Vexual: nakowra dint even do that, he did a thing that couyld be done in vegas
b0n1: Vexual, you are right, traditional casinos make much more money with their limited max and maximized min bets
b0n1: what did nakowra do and why isn't he doing it further?
Vexual: he did something called oceans 88
Vexual: a high rolling chinese comes to a casino, plays, and wins
Vexual: with no recourse of whisky and whores, the casino kicked him out and took a loss
b0n1: without knowing the strategy, why isn't he still doing it?
Vexual: coz they taught him hed won
Vexual: statoshi dice would have kept rollling on the chain
b0n1: no, just-dice i mean
Vexual: they ate a dick basically
b0n1: but why don't they do it again
Vexual: i dont think they liked the taste
b0n1: lal... so they found a way to forbid the strat?
Vexual: and he kept pumping like a pimp
b0n1: so he actually should have lost?
b0n1: you said he was lucky so i suppose that he should have lost, but won instead
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 950 @ 0.00084843 = 0.806 BTC [-]
b0n1: well... i think im gonna read that up
Vexual: well the casino is still up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.43 = 1.72 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 86 @ 0.00217233 = 0.1868 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 8 @ 0.1001375 = 0.8011 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share
davout: so i was reading your reply
davout: i concur when you say the fact the private key is never exported is a feature
davout: but regarding the revocation cert it's still useful to have
davout: push it to keyservers, everybody gets notified
mircea_popescu: maybe. the one constraint in there, you have to appreciate, is that since we're not doing asics for this,
mircea_popescu: so iot's a game of well what can we fit of what we need to have
mircea_popescu: if we ever end up selling these by the 10's of ks then an asic run becomes more reasonable and it probably will present a muchly different picture
davout: i'm just saying you're forgetting the main point of the revocation cert (in this specific context) in your answer
mircea_popescu: well, see, the cardano is principally to be used with people you are in contact with.
mircea_popescu: it's ideal usecase is not this, post pubkey on your blog, 20 years later still get encrypted email to that key (you've long lost)
mircea_popescu: well i can't find it. somewhere phil zimmermann was saying that people still send him pgp encrypted email but he long since doesn't have the key so he usually responds to ask ppl to send it plainly
mircea_popescu: which he figures they might think it's a little strange.
mircea_popescu: anyway. that sort of thing isn't the usecase here, not really. a classic pc implementation works much better.
davout: yeah so it isn't really supposed to be "The safe vault for your precious keys"(TM)
mircea_popescu: nah, it's supposed to be the unbreakable instagpg item.
mircea_popescu: the mothership probably needs a different solution. this is what the xwingers use while in flight
davout: i'm off, gonna build my mini GPG keychain with a raspberry pi and a betamax casing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00085224 = 2.7272 BTC [+]
bitesak: Matthew Green seems a good candidate to review the entropy of Cardano?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 1 = 3 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1550 @ 0.00085105 = 1.3191 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 140 @ 0.00998569 = 1.398 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 37 @ 0.00998799 = 0.3696 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 1.05624924 = 4.225 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.06499999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00900001 = 0.18 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3219 @ 0.00085602 = 2.7555 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: hi davout, how long should the b-c verfication take?
jurov: i'm waiting almost a week
davout: our financial partner is really slow
davout: they're called lemon way
davout: i'm not sure they know about the lemon party
davout: let's say that they understand fast, but you gotta speak slowly
mircea_popescu: heh. anyone ELSE work there outside of that burlet fellow ?
davout: yup, witnessed it first hand
davout: well, don't go out of your way
mircea_popescu: lol. im sorry, but i have to rely on reams of intel. i can't personalyl know everyone.
mircea_popescu: anyway. mebbe it works out for you, but i'd keep on toes.
Diablo-D3: its a combination of a) opsec, and b) THEIR opsec
mircea_popescu: "kept to himself and spent full days buried in his laptop."
mircea_popescu: dude... kids today. long time on a laptop is fucking egonomics suicide.
jurov: is there anything else to do?
mircea_popescu: i suspect it's quite possible none of the recent kids ever got to use desktops and simply don't know the glory of comfort.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5543 @ 0.00085746 = 4.7529 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 41 @ 0.009001 = 0.369 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 21 @ 0.00900001 = 0.189 BTC [-]
jurov: burnside's not sure if he can reliably wipe all passwords
jurov: remember bitcoinica?
pankkake: "i suspect it's quite possible none of the recent kids ever got to use desktops and simply don't know the glory of comfort." yup
pankkake: they do learn, though. in pain
ThickAsThieves: all this decntralized exchange talk is driving me batty
ThickAsThieves: i started actually responding and making points, but it doesn't help of course
ThickAsThieves: "Direct shares is the only way forward, at this point. The fact that you have not put together a direct share system shows the short-sightedness of management."
pankkake: the other response could be "shut up and code"
pankkake: instead of circlejerking on how colored coins are the future
pankkake: "I'm posting my idea here since it hasn't gotten much attention in the Project Development forum (0 replies)"
ThickAsThieves: mp, please write a Here's Why Everyone That Wants Decentralized Exchanges is Moron post
jurov: there was kinda such discussion with asciilifeform's proposal on this topic
mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj hasa a very interesting take on the world :D
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the relevant bit there is, after the third time bitcoinica was raped, the "bitcoin consultancy" group of dorks self proclaimed into importance & relevance decided to shut it down.
mircea_popescu: after which one of them, the fabled amir taaki, stole the code and published it
LorenzoMoney: yes, a decentralized stock exchange would be wonderful, wouldn't it
mircea_popescu: in what his foggy brain represented as "open sourcing",
mircea_popescu: supposedly if you torrent some movie you're also open sourcing it, cause you don't need a license in the first place to cede rights.
skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: Did you respond to my comment i just made in neobee thread?
LorenzoMoney: and why are they morons? oh becauseyou area fascist
mircea_popescu: anyway. the code contained a lot of good bits including enough info to reconstruct a pw.
mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj no it was about the btctc "you're already rich" thing
mircea_popescu: burnside is poor now, for one. his btct never made anything for the mention, for the other.
skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: Didn't both litecoinglobal and btct have very huge fees?
mircea_popescu: moreover, poor idiots should not have access to code that SEEMS like it's doing something of that nature.
mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj they had very huge fees. he is not rich. go figure.
jurov: and this is not abut burnside. now there's at least some technical barrier to keep your average noob/scammer to start his own exchange
mircea_popescu: to start his own WEBSITE which he misrepresents as an exchange.
mircea_popescu: a collectiojn of idiots being confused about what they do != a free market.
skinnkavaj: So your argument is like, with open source everything that comes out is just crap?
pankkake: "LorenzoMoney> yes, bet you love Heinlein also" wat
skinnkavaj: Maybe we should sell bitcoin to a company
mircea_popescu: my argument is that you are ill equipped to consider things, as displayed by the very dubious generalisation you just tripped yourself with.
jurov: skinnkavaj: i have seen myself some offers on freelancer "build me a bitcoin exchange", they were obviously clueless on first read
jurov: it's just better for everyone if they don't
ThickAsThieves: mp your colored coins article doesnt address many other problems
skinnkavaj: So what? With a free markey, people will choose where to go. Which one sets up the best BTCT clone will win in the end.
mircea_popescu: anyway, "<jurov> burnside's not sure if he can reliably wipe all passwords" << no, just not sure how to cleanly remove the "give scammers fake btc to fake their volume" code.
ThickAsThieves: the argument of course shifts depending on what problem it is people are trying to solve with decentralization
jurov: skinnkavaj: nope. the one who will manage to keep the bitcoins safe will win
skinnkavaj: jurov: Exactly what i said but in other words
ThickAsThieves: your points are mostly technical, involving the blockchain as being impractical
mircea_popescu: forum retards move to what SEEMS TO THEM a better alternative.
ThickAsThieves: powers will always become ordered, dismantled, ordered, etc
mircea_popescu: if this process is allowed to become "what Bitcoin is" then Bitcoin will never be anything.
skinnkavaj: No, people use the service because its good. Thats the free market. Do you realize why everyone is abonding mtgox?
mircea_popescu: and a bunch of rich powerful people are here to fuck you in the mouth until you bleed
mircea_popescu: i dunno how it can be made clearer. "free market" indeed.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves no, im done with the "free market of retards" concept. anyway, re the colored coins :
mircea_popescu: the blockchain is fundamentally a solution to the bizantine problem
mircea_popescu: that problem exists like gravity exists. if you have it you gotta solve it. which is why the article focuses on the blockchain : if you're doing distributed anything, you have the bizantine poblem.
ThickAsThieves: admittedly, it doesnt seem to be the colored coin style developers making wild claims, but the people flocking to these ideas
ThickAsThieves: colored coin type developers are merely trying to make an accountable ledger
mircea_popescu: i mean other than "Well different implementations of the same concept"
ThickAsThieves: while the cheerleaders are searching for a replacement for exchanges
pankkake: colored coins do not provide a solution for decentralized *trades*
mircea_popescu: so you envisage a distributed replacement that's NOT at the same time an accountable ledger ?
mircea_popescu: i meant as a pure concept. could such a thing be conceived
mircea_popescu: pankkake that's you know, like "cancer will get you" for the gunshot wound patient
ThickAsThieves: i see the securities market as an ideal system involving 4 major parties
mircea_popescu: anyway. something like ripple (and tf's abuse thereof) clearly showed what the problems are with trying to get a distributed trust model going.
ThickAsThieves: the Exhange/Platform, Investment Bank/Issuer, Investor, and the issued Business/Financial Instrument
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 81 @ 0.00997734 = 0.8082 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: this is at least the proven=to=work italian model the modern system is copying.
mircea_popescu: and now i shall be off scarfing smoked salmon and fresh apple pie seasoned with free market tears. bbs.
ThickAsThieves: these powers are made useful/profitable/covenient in their vert centralization
ThickAsThieves: to attempt to "decentralize" merely amounts to breaking things into less useful pieces
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.00997981 = 0.1896 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: thus all my problems with the decentralization of securities movement are conceptual
pankkake: I hereby decentralize ThickAsThieves
pankkake: you are now thick, and a thief
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00997981 = 0.499 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: if you pile on mp's technical arguments about the blockchain's limits in providing a decentralized solution it only makes decentralization that much worse of a pursuit
ThickAsThieves: circling back to, i'd love to see blog article from mp that supported what ive just described
ThickAsThieves: "Such terms is rather ridicules and im sure they wont hold up in court in many country's"
pankkake: I'm not well versed in trade engines, but I don't see how you could execute them in a decentralized way
ThickAsThieves: another area people think decentralization addresses is circumventing SEC and other regulation
ThickAsThieves: this might be possible for nondescript financial instruments
pankkake: unless the company is a scam, then it can work :)
jurov: i dont undersstand, how it can work? i mean, how it protects said comapny from SEC?
jurov: so to what you said "true" then? i'm confused
ThickAsThieves: thus a decntralized service would make their lives easier
mircea_popescu: ;;google "a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is"
☟︎ jurov: no its not, especially if used like: unless the company is a scam, then it can work
jurov: i understood it the opposite way
jurov: like "if the company is a scam, then it can work"
jurov: er... i mean.. fuck it
jurov: maybe it's just perl-induced braindamage
ThickAsThieves: "I think decentralized is the only way to go as this will happen to any other centralized exchange. Looking into the Namecoin code to create a decentralized exchanged. As was said above it can be merged mined with Bitcoin. We could uses our own miners to get it going." Ken Slaughter
mircea_popescu: because everyone gains when nobody does his job well because he's too busy trying to do poorly the jobs of others.
samson_: If shares were issued on their own blockchain and could be freely moved between the various available trading sites / 'share wallets' there would be no real difference in trading a share to trading an altcoin. Something like this would provide no decentralised exchange but it provides a way to hold and move shares independently of any trading platform. Just like Bitcoin.
jborkl: Who would approve- dissaprove securities - The only person I have seen competent in theis matter already has an exchange
jborkl: and do not sat the commnity, because a group of retards approving something is still a group of retards making a decision
samson_: If anyone can create a security then I don't see the big deal. The approval process would happen automatically if people started trading them for Bitcoin. Take these new alt currencies which appear to be created daily - they're not all traded on exchanges hence they're not 'approved'. They still exist but that is irrelevant.
samson_: I guess my take on it is the shares could do with decentralisation, not so much the exchanges.
ThickAsThieves: you'd prefer the stock market to more resemble the altcoin markert?
ThickAsThieves: wasnt it close enough already with labcoins and activeminingcoins
ThickAsThieves: lots of people focusing attention on them like a bitcoingem
Jere_Jones: I admit that I, at one time or another, owned shares of both.
ThickAsThieves: hordes of ingoramuses asking what is a labcoin and how do i get them?
samson_: It would be nice if we could withdraw shares from an exchange just like a coin.
samson_: It would end reliance on 'the exchange' so when it closes down they could be traded elsewhere.
ThickAsThieves: just because you can "withdraw" your share, doesnt mean it will have usefulness in the same ways
ThickAsThieves: realize that in such a system you'd end up with more friction
ThickAsThieves: me for example, you think i would manage a ledger system for free?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.00935 = 0.5984 BTC [-]
samson_: This is true, I'm not saying it's simple
samson_: I think it would be an evolution on current uses of blockchains without going down the whole coloured coins route
ThickAsThieves: time is better spent pursuing running legitimate services
mircea_popescu: basically the very primitive understanding of freedom has serious trouble coming to terms with the ancient procedure of labour division
mircea_popescu: on the basis of this we could say "the community" is sometime between 12k and 7k BC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 750 @ 0.00085423 = 0.6407 BTC [-]
jborkl: With respect to the capacitors, an investigation has been undertaken with Anotherhost.se, as they have suffered the issue with all their boards.
jborkl: KNC says all the caps blowing is due to the corsair ps
jborkl: It appears that a reasonable solution has been reached in that all the boards this has occurred to seem to have been used alongside the exact same PSU; The Corsair HX850.+
jborkl: Basically there is an issue with excessive current being applied, after the PU cuts out and the device is turned back on, causing the cap to pop.
mircea_popescu: if all the boards burn its not the capacitors, it's not the power, it's the board.
jborkl: I know, that is a bad diagnosis- it is just wrong
jborkl: A better guess- they are drawing too much off the ps- it cuts off to protect itself and the caps pop
kakobrekla: one can overload cap for a short while
kakobrekla: that seems to me like something that happens while under load for some time
jborkl: it has been reported minutes after plugin
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla the current theory i'm crediting is that the boards have bad metal masks in a spot, and it slowly melts the insulation
kakobrekla: well minutes in an eternity for electricity
jborkl: that is a good theory mp
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 164 @ 0.00259998 = 0.4264 BTC [-]
jborkl: it makes sense- the KNC theory is just flat out wrong
mircea_popescu: jborkl originally it looked like caps just popped but the history since then does nto bear it out
jborkl: The heavy scorch marks some of the boards are showing indicates more than a cap also
mircea_popescu: and moreover it seems the majority of people i showed the pics to say those aren't electrolytic but ceramic
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.04987999 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah because burned boards w/o such bridge were seen
jborkl: EDIT: I should add that KnC are using Corsair V850s themselves, and haven't had an issue with any of them. That said apparently they almost supplied their entire hosting with the HX, but due to the HX being out of stock for the volume required, they bought the V850. Which in hindsight is a wonderful thing.
jborkl: so, the entire hosting is being blamed on Corsair
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 217 @ 0.0026 = 0.5642 BTC [+]
jborkl: capacitors can't be damaged by having current applied "before they've discharged their load"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 15 @ 0.00935334 = 0.1403 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.022 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: i need to find a way to avoid this happening for b4x, cause i know it is
kakobrekla: im more skeptical for bb sine theres all these odds in the air that you wont get your money back
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.9601 = 1.9202 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 66 @ 0.00899757 = 0.5938 BTC [-] {4}
Namworld: Hmm, did something change with MPEx? pyMPEx doesn't work it seems.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96 BTC [-]
Namworld: I have to use an hex editor to change key I believe
Namworld: No idea, can't remember who it was who made the port.
Namworld: But an hex editor usually works fine for changing the url or key to use
ozbot: 50. Pando the Trembling Giant | Most Odd - Facts of Interest
ozbot: The TOF Spot: 9. The Great Ptolemaic Smackdown: From Plausible to Proven
qxzn: is there a decent writeup somewhere of that Ripple "demonstration" TradeFortress made?
mircea_popescu: qxzn probably not past a number of scammer threads on the forum.
qxzn: aw, that's a shame, it was such a good story
mircea_popescu: yeah i guess so. maybe one of the bloggers recounts it sometime.
mircea_popescu: Namworld in honestly hexediting seems a little hardcore
Namworld: It worked before when MPEx moved to MPEx.co
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 12 @ 0.008961 = 0.1075 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00259998 = 0.195 BTC [-]
ozbot: A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: RSA warns developers not to use RSA products
Namworld: I see you re-added my key. Thank you.
mircea_popescu: so your evil plan to hexedit an exe compile actually worked ?
KRS1: Effective October 28, 2013 at 4pm CT, Dwolla will be withdrawing its service offerings to virtual currency exchanges and virtual currency related services.
KRS1: I think so, but they're still working with exchanges like campbx.
KRS1: this is probably it
Namworld: Key to use and url to submit appears as plaintext in the compile.
KRS1: Virtual currency is slowly becoming a bad word.
Namworld: Because virtual = Does not exist in people's mind.
Namworld: People just need to learn their bank account statements are just as virtual.
Namworld: If they want something not virtual, they can just hold physical gold and silver or such thing.
KRS1: someone needs to show them that lesson
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 1.03639999 = 5.182 BTC [+] {4}
KRS1: Dwolla says Virtual Currency customers/merchants are 0.1 percent of their customer base..Hmm.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00945598 = 0.4728 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 0.098002 = 0.49 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: it's a venture circuit scam thing, which is homologuous.
KRS1: one of the only tools people have to move cash in/out of the system
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess few are aware, but as per genius satoshi design the main way to move cash into bitcoin is mining
mircea_popescu: the 2nd way is... also mining. through miner production.
KRS1: so take fiat out of the equation..are bitcoins actually worth anything then? I dont know of anything you can do with them besides get some goods and services, best case.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the reason it can't work in reverse gear is that fiat is worthless.
KRS1: I apparently stepped into a chat room on another planet.
KRS1: but what about the Nigerian Sperm bank?
mircea_popescu: recently i had a wire fail to a supplier, and they were "well, send me bitcoin ?"
mircea_popescu: course, electricity is a monopoly in most places for good physical reasons, so i guess the btc to watt thing will be one of the later parts.
mircea_popescu: "Bitcoins will be transferred only after conversion into a currency."
mircea_popescu: We kindly ask you to withdraw your Bitcoins to a wallet outside of Bitstamp.net. If you do not withdraw your Bitcoins in 24 hours as instructed in the previous paragraph, please provide us with a valid bank account held in your name in a reply to this Account Termination Notice so Bitstamp can proceed with your Account termination and send you the currencies credited to your Account within 14 business days after your
jurov: OP says below it's not a scam cuz they did close the acct
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 397 @ 0.001229 = 0.4879 BTC [-]
gribble: Current Blocks: 262818 | Current Difficulty: 1.8928124928103292E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 264095 | Next Difficulty In: 1277 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 10 hours, 47 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 228440874.109 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.68859
jurov: heh right on track
jurov: maybe it will produce 1278th block on oct 17, 00:00:01 and CB.IDIFF-E holders will eat me alive :D
jborkl: "KNC support just emailed me back saying that 440 ghash (what 50btc reports), 900 watts from the wall, and chip temps of 65-72c in a 58F room are 'within spec'...Not awesome."
jurov: >350GH/s, <1KW for Jupiter
jborkl: Mineral oil is so expensive, I have thought about it many times-
jurov: and it can't be changed for water cooler, can be?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00968748 = 0.9687 BTC [+] {6}
jborkl: I would have to look at it and see what would fit it, otherwise that could get really expensive - it also might too big of a system to cool it
jborkl: I thinnk I am going to dnk a blade in mineral oil and see how it does on temps - just for the hell of it
jurov: i'm no expert.. supposedly it works with normal pc (except hdd), but 1kW is prolly too much
mircea_popescu: jborkl nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1437.pdf
jurov: i mean, submerging it into oil
mircea_popescu: it has a slight but present fire hazard and is toxic if it burns.
jborkl: hmm, well maybe not then
kakobrekla: you can test if the blown cap can set it on fire
ozbot: And now I shall be off scarfing smoked salmon and fresh apple pie seasoned with free market tears, o
jborkl: I wonder how the KNC hosting center is holding up to 900 w per unit? Reptilla should take trip to the sauna in there
jborkl: considering they bought 850 w power supplies, as per the photos
mircea_popescu: good AC should be able to pump out something in the .1 to 1 MW per floor
jurov: good PSU's can supply more than rated but still something's fishy
mircea_popescu: it is possible the unit just works with whatever power it's being fed.
mircea_popescu: the knc ppl are slightly underfeeding it,w hich is why it doesn't pop as much ?
jurov: which is why it doesn't pop as much ? lol
ozbot: KNC Jupiter - Imgur
mircea_popescu: im just here to collect the praise. admonitions go to asciilifeform :D
jurov: As many of 10,000 of these smartcards may provide little or no cryptographic protection despite receiving two internationally recognized certifications.
jurov: ^ the web checker would be no better than these certifications
jurov: and i don't see how would devote hours to try cracking all submitted keys like the researchers did
mircea_popescu: jurov it couldn't identify a good key, but it could identify a bad one
jurov: nosuchagency can provide it.. as a marketing tool
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00085104 = 2.6382 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 246 @ 0.0024189 = 0.595 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 400 @ 0.00223127 = 0.8925 BTC [-] {6}
gribble: Current Blocks: 262831 | Current Difficulty: 1.8928124928103292E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 264095 | Next Difficulty In: 1264 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 8 hours, 26 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 228797587.534 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.87705