log
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BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4284.77, vol: 9314.51498455 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4286.9, vol: 28610.45644877 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3734.056914, vol: 18368.55230000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4319.8, vol: 3356.1767715 | Volume-weighted last average: 4118.17578588
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C5153FA55A551068A236813405E8A6CF6C06DD6F127D55FB8EA60BA3D226BFE2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1606...4067 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.86.164.131 (ssh-rsa key from 217.86.164.131 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (pd956a483.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C5153FA55A551068A236813405E8A6CF6C06DD6F127D55FB8EA60BA3D226BFE2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1422...4897 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.86.164.131 (ssh-rsa key from 217.86.164.131 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (pd956a483.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. DE)
BingoBoingo: https://i.redditmedia.com/4qNJVNQB31pVOrgz-EiEv6flGGICj0qdAAuxul1KqD0.jpg?w=576&s=3a1922231ecc1bd7e3f722158069d6c0 << The secret to longevity!
mod6: lol
BingoBoingo: In other news, people are bitching all scandalized about plywood selling for what it sells for. Turn out they've been looking at 2'x2' and 2'x4' sheets instead of full sheets.
BingoBoingo: ""Hurr durr sell $6 plywood for $30" Fuck you
BingoBoingo: Drop your pants because this is $30 plywood and you're going to be happy about it or it'll be happy in you
mircea_popescu: kek
mod6: you'd think, that people would have plywood saved up from last time they had to batten down the hatches
BingoBoingo: Seriously though, I am in the midwest. Here the shit they should be putting on windows is closer to $40 and up for a full sheet
BingoBoingo: In other lolz: "In CharityWatch’s view, the Kars4Kids ads deceive potential donors by failing to inform them that donated cars will benefit a Jewish organization and kids of Jewish faith. Furthermore, the youth programs Kars4Kids supports promote an Orthodox Jewish lifestyle, which CharityWatch believes compounds the deception perpetrated by the Kars4Kids ads. Oorah, Kars4Kids’ “sister charity,” is the organization that actually
BingoBoingo: runs the “educational, developmental, and recreational programs for Jewish youth and their families” described in Kars4Kids’ mission statement."
mircea_popescu: oh, wait, pantsuit has sole and absolute monopoly on deceiving ?
BingoBoingo: Apparently
BingoBoingo: Well pantsuit and their jew charities
mircea_popescu: afaik it's a-ok "in chartiywatch's view" to ask for money to "help women" and then spend it on inflating idiot's egos instead.
mircea_popescu: at least via the kars4kids thing SOME ACTUAL KIDS are getting something.
mircea_popescu: as opposed to the usual black chix code bs, which is never about any black chicks getting anything but reamed.
BingoBoingo: Oh do they. I though chairty watch just told you every so called charity was a scam and too keep all your jools4you
mircea_popescu: ah do they ?
BingoBoingo: No idea
BingoBoingo: All I know if Kars4Kids ads are a cancer
BingoBoingo: All broadcast media in the United States carries fucking Kars4Kids ads. They don't get that kind of budget without being the Jewish children of Pantsuits club
mircea_popescu is entirely innocent
mircea_popescu: wtf is it anyway ?
BingoBoingo: It's a scam that buys radio airtime, and just spams the shit out of their shitty jingles.
BingoBoingo: The jingle consists of "phone number, repeat phone number , repeat phone number , Donate your car today"
BingoBoingo: No details offered beyond that
mircea_popescu: so they take old cars and ship them to whatever, lebanon ?
BingoBoingo: Or scrap them for cash. Donor gets $600 tax deduction even if the car has negative scrap value
mircea_popescu: not a bad scam
BingoBoingo: It's why the jews and not Al Sharpton do it
mircea_popescu: euros had enough sense to state-run this
mircea_popescu: (everyone got ~5k credit if replaced old car. as a result ro car plant sold 1mn units of the 5k euro dacia things. NEW CARS!)
BingoBoingo: LOL
BingoBoingo: Bahamas and pantsuit try this with battery cars, but too broke for credit to equal price, or even bring price to normal car price
BingoBoingo: In US donating car is sucker's move. For it to make sense one loses car ownership game of hot potato while having income such that itemizing deductions makes sense
mircea_popescu: but children!
mircea_popescu: it's funny you can actually diagnose pantsuit rot in a society by how universal the "you know, for kids" nonsense is.
mircea_popescu: answer falls on a scale between "fuck you and your stupid ugly fucking urchins" in sane societies to "omg it must be right then!" in batshit insane societies
BingoBoingo: yeah
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2DFC27EB1269C6ABD97777433506E9CAE4CC357A63FD0A0C2152CD8F7542E83A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1705...6029 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '205.250.204.74 (ssh-rsa key from 205.250.204.74 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (d205-250-204-74.bchsia.telus.net. CA BC)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2DFC27EB1269C6ABD97777433506E9CAE4CC357A63FD0A0C2152CD8F7542E83A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1753...1283 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '205.250.204.74 (ssh-rsa key from 205.250.204.74 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (d205-250-204-74.bchsia.telus.net. CA BC)
phf: this is a btcbase.org psa: if you add ?nick=yournick to the end of a message listing url you're going to get highlight for messages from yournick and messages that have yournick in their text. handy for when you want to see recent messages related to yourself
phf: the feature has been there for a while.. i really should document all the different flags that you can pass to message listing
shinohai: neat phf ... yeah a complete list would be handy
phf: e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/?nick=BingoBoingo
phf: i need to figure out how to persist it better. for example i think that the flags should be passed on through <- and -> page changes. or perhaps you should be able to store them in cookie
phf: there's also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-08?inline=true which inlines gifs and jpegs
shinohai: Heh inline even works in w3m phf http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/inline.png
BingoBoingo: ty phf
mod6: mornin
mod6: <+phf> the feature has been there for a while.. i really should document all the different flags that you can pass to message listing << aha. this would be great as I know the thing does a lot of things, i can just never remember what they are :]
asciilifeform: in today's world of shitunix,
asciilifeform: $ rm -rf *.txt
asciilifeform: -bash: /bin/rm: Argument list too long
mod6: yeah bs huh
shinohai: LOL
mod6: "Please do not remove this many files, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!111"
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/JwoWa/?raw=true
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !#s pywallet
a111: 19 results for "pywallet", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pywallet
asciilifeform: ^ anybody know of a proggy with similar functionality, that ACTUALLY RUNS ?
asciilifeform: ( not a single one of the boxes i have here now, will eat the 'deprecated' bdb lib for python, that the thing insists on )
shinohai: afaik there isn't one :/
asciilifeform: so what do folx with coldwallets use ? their teeth and a pair of wires ?
shinohai: Well now I use mod6's privkeytools vpatch :D
asciilifeform: pretty sure that rescans every shot
asciilifeform: which is nogood.
asciilifeform: it also doesn't dump WHOLE keypool
asciilifeform: which is a must
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711748 << this is a kernel level limit on number of arguments you can pass through argv (documented in e.g. man execve). i think recent linux kernels actually have this work somewhat dynamically.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 15:56 asciilifeform: -bash: /bin/rm: Argument list too long
phf: there was a naggum rant on the subject, that he recompiles his kernels to make that variable as large as possible, because the behavior is stupid
phf: (i think the rant was in emacs group, because it's not in xach's collection)
asciilifeform: problem is that this dun make it less stupid
asciilifeform: and it WILL barf one day.
phf: well, yes, unix. but my point since it wasn't obvious that it's not rm specific. it's a deep, inherent stupid
asciilifeform: well yes
asciilifeform: we had the innumerable 'tar barfs' threads etc.
asciilifeform: whole os has this monumental fixnum retardation baked in.
phf: heh, plan9 lists this in "bugs" section.
phf: There is a large but finite limit on the size of an argment
phf: list, typically around 409,600 bytes. The kernel constant
phf: TSTKSIZ controls this.
phf: but there's also CALL-ARGUMENTS-LIMIT so this particular failure point is not limited to unix..
phf: hyperspec mandates it to be no less than 50, which basically means you can't rely on #'apply working on unbound lists in a portable way
mod6: <+asciilifeform> it also doesn't dump WHOLE keypool << what is meant here? you want to see every private key dumped?
asciilifeform: mod6: correct
asciilifeform: i.e. complete disasm of wallet.dat
asciilifeform: ( and, on other occasion, reasm )
mod6: oh. that'd be useful huh. basically just pass in "" or "all" and it'll dump every priv key and its associated pub key?
asciilifeform: correct. and undump.
mod6: undump? like import a swath of privkeys ?
asciilifeform: like import exactly what it exported.
asciilifeform: for instance.
asciilifeform: y'know, disasm/asm.
mod6: oh. alright.
mod6: i'll have to look at that.
mod6: this is good feedback, i appreciate it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> i.e. complete disasm of wallet.dat << it also holds txns
asciilifeform: so them also.
mircea_popescu: it's basically a bdb dump of keys and txn, first part (but not 2nd) aesencrypted.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: in same $experiment, asciilifeform went to dump 'utxo set' of bitcoin, and found that there is not one single public tool that will do anything of the kind.
asciilifeform: almost as if it isn't the EIGHTH motherfucking year of bitcoin existing
mircea_popescu: myeah
asciilifeform: ( there was an item written by -- that very same -- znort987 ; but it dun work worth a shit )
mircea_popescu: would actually be iunteresting, as a phuctor sort of thing. "here's the mempool pile"
mircea_popescu: there are many proprietary shits, but they "publish" summaries in the vein of us scientism, "summaries" and coloring book pdfs.
asciilifeform: wasn't looking at mempool, but at actual blockchain
asciilifeform: ( though mempool viewer also would be interesting )
mircea_popescu: both, yes.
asciilifeform: i dun give a rat's arse re proprietary whatevers.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of "i've been around for 8 years and i imagine this means something notwithstanding i got nothing for show for it", hey kanzure are ye busy reading the logs and reforming yourself into republican shape, or are ye back on the old bandwagon of idiocy, sucking from the same old bottle of stupid ?
asciilifeform was wondering re ^
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was making a 'is this privkey, generated in whatever external way, live' detector.
asciilifeform: and yes it is quite obvious why none of the folx who made this , are eager to share.
mircea_popescu: heh
kanzure: wut?
mircea_popescu: better error messages!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711736 << o hey, cool.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 13:10 phf: this is a btcbase.org psa: if you add ?nick=yournick to the end of a message listing url you're going to get highlight for messages from yournick and messages that have yournick in their text. handy for when you want to see recent messages related to yourself
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711740 << coockie is not hard.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 13:13 phf: i need to figure out how to persist it better. for example i think that the flags should be passed on through <- and -> page changes. or perhaps you should be able to store them in cookie
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711757 << you don't understand : the deprecated lib is part of th ewallet, because the mike hearn / power ranger imbeciles "updated" the db scheme of prb in order to INCLUDE a new db dependency, and one made by google, but DID NOT remove the old one.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 18:07 asciilifeform: ( not a single one of the boxes i have here now, will eat the 'deprecated' bdb lib for python, that the thing insists on )
mircea_popescu: "defensive coding practices" you know, defending nsa.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711759 << folks generally do not use the "wallet" abstraction/idiocy anymore than they use the "accounts" idiocy baked in. 1 address per wallet sorta deal.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 18:09 asciilifeform: so what do folx with coldwallets use ? their teeth and a pair of wires ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711763 << yes, to fish out CHANGE addresses in trb you must FOLLOW txns trees to the unspent leaf. true pain in butt.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 18:12 asciilifeform: it also doesn't dump WHOLE keypool
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711765 << this just means linux kernel is badly written he.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 18:42 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711748 << this is a kernel level limit on number of arguments you can pass through argv (documented in e.g. man execve). i think recent linux kernels actually have this work somewhat dynamically.
mircea_popescu: i guess THE LINUX WAY, inherited from the c way, inherited from new jersey is to go rm -rf a*.txt and so following.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711763 << yes, to fish out CHANGE addresses in trb you must FOLLOW txns trees to the unspent leaf. true pain in butt. << ah, good point. i'll make a note of these requests.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 18:12 asciilifeform: it also doesn't dump WHOLE keypool
mod6: i like it.
mircea_popescu: alternatively iirc xargs takes a param count limit, you keep re-running it
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711785 << pass nada.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 19:26 mod6: oh. that'd be useful huh. basically just pass in "" or "all" and it'll dump every priv key and its associated pub key?
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/64155CFDE448832FC3FFC8C658CB07A7E7AE575E0CC0039A14415353CA80BFD4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1675...1647 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '205.200.169.60 (ssh-rsa key from 205.200.169.60 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (rfmgw1.rapidfinance.ca. CA MB)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/64155CFDE448832FC3FFC8C658CB07A7E7AE575E0CC0039A14415353CA80BFD4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1751...2187 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '205.200.169.60 (ssh-rsa key from 205.200.169.60 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (rfmgw1.rapidfinance.ca. CA MB)
mircea_popescu: i do not want results of computation to be dependent on parameters supplied at tiem fo computation. let me do cat all | grep what i want, not fucking bullshit cat all -flag -otherflag nonsense.
spyked: mircea_popescu took the words right from my mouth. find . -name '*.txt' | xargs rm is IMHO elegant enough (decomposes into stream of files and repeated removal). then again, find is another beast on its own
mircea_popescu: this latter is the java way, and it should die with fucking java
mircea_popescu: spyked it's not elegant except in the sense that in the "dara ea-i mai mare muta, muci-i marg, din gura-i pute" world a washed face seems stylish and classy.
mircea_popescu: it ain't.
asciilifeform: rapidfinance.ca << was spamfarm, last known picture looks like http://web.archive.org/web/20131127015336/http://www.rapidfinance.ca:80
spyked: eh. shell is by definition glue/tape macgyver. and "shell" is just a convenient extension of "unix", the same way 3 is a "conveniently chosen approximation" for pi.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711819 << prb wasn't involved here, was operating on trb .dat's☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 19:43 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711757 << you don't understand : the deprecated lib is part of th ewallet, because the mike hearn / power ranger imbeciles "updated" the db scheme of prb in order to INCLUDE a new db dependency, and one made by google, but DID NOT remove the old one.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was explaining why pywallet has the dependency.
asciilifeform: ( i did get the python bdb thing going, with some massage. but the result is unremarkable, takes ENTIRE SECOND to import a key )
mircea_popescu: everyone does.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711822 << well yes, ideally. but at some point ~everybody encounters a 'i have here ye olde .dat from 2011' etc☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 19:45 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711759 << folks generally do not use the "wallet" abstraction/idiocy anymore than they use the "accounts" idiocy baked in. 1 address per wallet sorta deal.
mircea_popescu: golden standard is 1. take ye olde wallet.dat ; 2. dump all txn in it ; 3. dump all addresses involved in them ; 4. get privkeys for all addresses in that list (most of which fail).
asciilifeform: 2-4 requires a disasmer
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711785 << pass nada. << alright☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 19:26 mod6: oh. that'd be useful huh. basically just pass in "" or "all" and it'll dump every priv key and its associated pub key?
asciilifeform: ( or, alternatively, a very long manual massage )
asciilifeform: mod6: idea is that you oughta be able to convert ALL known wallet.dat into a human-readable form AND BACK
mircea_popescu: it'd help if we first had a trb wallet model.
mircea_popescu: so in a sense this is premature
mircea_popescu: (which is what happens when people-other-than-mp say what to9 be done!!!)
mircea_popescu: as it is, now he's going to hack together an undesigned, ad-hoc "sane human-readable form", which is nogood.jpg and also how you get dedicated, good folk in trouble.
asciilifeform: sexpr.
mircea_popescu: re-read the ad-hoc thrown together part.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711838 << this is not ideal, correct command is actually find ... -print0 | xargs -0 ... .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 19:50 spyked: mircea_popescu took the words right from my mouth. find . -name '*.txt' | xargs rm is IMHO elegant enough (decomposes into stream of files and repeated removal). then again, find is another beast on its own
asciilifeform: sexpr is definitionally correct human representation for anything whatsoever.
mod6: i'll hold off, but this is a good discussion of design goals.
phf: the fact that you have to do this demonstrates a dozen of unix retardations. correct method could just be rm `find .|grep txt`, but this fails in a number of interesting ways
phf: note that plan9/rc tried actually making the last command work, rm `{du|awk '{print $1}'|grep txt} almost works as expected out of the box. (note the somewhat questionable decision to "replace" find with du, but then you have to awk out first column..)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform we're not discussing whether it shopuld be written in latin characters here!
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711863 << the proverbial bus with four steering wheels, gasses, and brakes.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 20:03 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711838 << this is not ideal, correct command is actually find ... -print0 | xargs -0 ... .
asciilifeform: ' * ' should do the right motherfucking thing.
mircea_popescu: * is not a right motherfucking thing.
mircea_popescu: revisit above re parameters.
asciilifeform: rm -rf * does not have the right to fail.
mircea_popescu: you do not have the right to write *
asciilifeform: why the hell not ?
mircea_popescu: once you do, you're in best-effort computation world.
asciilifeform: i start with a nonempty dir, and intend to end with an empty one
asciilifeform: this is an O(1) op in the file system
asciilifeform: ( even in fat16 )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because it's either a case of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711837 ie sanity or else if * is semantically meani8ngful you're in new jersey.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 19:50 mircea_popescu: i do not want results of computation to be dependent on parameters supplied at tiem fo computation. let me do cat all | grep what i want, not fucking bullshit cat all -flag -otherflag nonsense.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F5927AE84CE7B1841C179B2207451C282683D15F826538BC08E28576077FEEF8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1744...7019 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.33.38.39 (ssh-rsa key from 62.33.38.39 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F5927AE84CE7B1841C179B2207451C282683D15F826538BC08E28576077FEEF8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1775...9847 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.33.38.39 (ssh-rsa key from 62.33.38.39 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU)
asciilifeform: entirely meaningful. 'all files reachable in this path ? delete'
phf: asciilifeform: my point is what spyked wrote is not even complete in his own terms
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform stop an think of what i'm saying rather than just chasing your strand!
mircea_popescu: IF * is meaningful, you're in a broken context.
asciilifeform: i genuinely dun see how
mircea_popescu: * should be implicit ; and it can't not be implicit in working world.
asciilifeform: so i did the usual tar cvfz foo.tar.gz bar/baz/*.txt and ended up with 'too many...'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because * as a semantic notation is part of a class that goes a*.txt too.
mircea_popescu: this is part of "my computor is my gf" ai world.
asciilifeform: i dun get it. both *.txt, *foo*bar, and * , are well-formed statements with unambiguous correct answer in any possible case.
asciilifeform: unix implements this defectively, with implicit hidden count limit.
mircea_popescu: they are not well formed.
spyked: asciilifeform yeah, but "rm -rf *" doesn't mean "all files reachable in this path". it means "expand * to arbitrarily long sausage, then pass result as args to rm".
mircea_popescu: ^
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: demonstrate the ambiguity ?
asciilifeform: spyked: THAT is retarded.
mircea_popescu: the hallucination that * is well formed is a problem.
asciilifeform: and must die.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform NOT ambiguity.
mircea_popescu: it. is. not. well. formed.
asciilifeform: demonstrate how ?
mircea_popescu: because there's no latin character named *. it's an utfism.
asciilifeform: there ain't a latin | either.
mircea_popescu: yes, there is.
asciilifeform: ahahahahaha
mircea_popescu: thgat's the fucking point. | is wel lformed. * is malformed.
mircea_popescu: IF you gotta say * you know you're in barbarbar land.
asciilifeform: so how would mircea_popescu formulate tar cvfz foo.tar.gz bar/baz/*.txt ?
mircea_popescu: tar cvfz foo.tar.gz bar/baz/ | grep .txt
asciilifeform: that dunwork
mircea_popescu: we're discussing how things should be or how they are ?
mircea_popescu: nothingworks.jpg
asciilifeform: i dun see why * should not be an exact shorthand for above.
asciilifeform: if we're doing oughts.
asciilifeform: my whole gripe was that it ain't one.
phf: well, why not: tar cvfz foo.tar.gz `tree bar/baz|grep .txt` ?
mircea_popescu: yes well then we agree.
asciilifeform: because wtf tree and ` and rubbish
asciilifeform: we're talking about simple ops, i should not have to touch fucking shift key
mircea_popescu: lol!
trinque: how does that enter into how to properly represent the thought
mircea_popescu: that's another thing.
trinque: your shift key
asciilifeform: for all you know my shift key has a pin, like grenade, and it take out for speshul occasions.
mircea_popescu: trinque it is a valid point of how to make a proper kbd tho.
asciilifeform brb
trinque: mircea_popescu: it is, just thread leapt from meaning of * to omg my keyboard?
mircea_popescu: he's leapin' larry over here.
mircea_popescu: in other news, slavegirl marches in with her-made mango lassi, complete with marasquino cherry etc.
mircea_popescu: MY LIFE IS UNFAIR
phf: shaping a file list is not necessarily simple op, but i'm not sure if ascii's response is even meant to make sense..
mircea_popescu: phf possibly. in any case, the issue is the "DWIM" symbols in thought, let alone language.
mircea_popescu: people gotta get used to the whole alphabet schtick already, "POSSIBLE LESS, DO MORE!"
phf: (the old, not "modern") emacs approach was that you provide non-ambiguous, predictable building block operations that ~specific operator~ can build dwim tools out of. but those dwim tools shouldn't really leave your own toolbox
mircea_popescu: importing ambiguity into computer lang is ~as stupid as trying to orthogonalize natural lang.
mircea_popescu: that's why the fuck cs is in math dept in the first place ; as opposed to fucking literary criticism
mircea_popescu: which gets moar moneyz.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711933 << keyboard meant as proxy for thoughtalphabet. i.e. if i do something 500 times on a typical day, it had better look like * and not like find . -name '*.arsefuck' | xargs etc.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 20:14 trinque: mircea_popescu: it is, just thread leapt from meaning of * to omg my keyboard?
asciilifeform: and if the system designer did not see it this way, then it follows that he was a tard.
asciilifeform: likewise it is screamingly idiotic when '* behaves exactly like find . -name '*.arsefuck' | xargs unless you have >9000 files then fuckyou.jpg'
mircea_popescu: the problem of "proxy for thoughalphabet" is that there's no such thing.
trinque: well, as phf said sanity would be that you have orthogonal ops, write own macros for whatever you do 500 times a day, and can call it 8==D for all anyone cares
trinque: in the present circumstance to have glob expansion in shell rather than in each command, gotta pass the individual files as args to the command.
trinque: or each command has its own expansion built in.
mircea_popescu: you shouldn't HAVE glob at all. you should have "on this directory" ; not as a LIST of files but as "this directory".
mircea_popescu: because that is why the fucking fs even exists in the first place, to create "list of items same ops run on"
mircea_popescu: that is what a fucking directory IS!
mircea_popescu: which is why * is broken, because it connotes globbing, and globbing is stupid bullshit, "transform this thing i said into this other thing i meant"
mircea_popescu: how about you fucking learn to think in actual thoughts as opposed to badly mangled "proxies" for thoughts!
mircea_popescu: there IS such a thing as a thought primitive ; and there is such a thing as pseudo-"thought process" to be discounted out of hand for failing to correctly employ the required thought primitives and nothing else.
trinque curious why rm does not read a stream of "things upon which to rm" rather than taking as args
mircea_popescu: doh!
asciilifeform: trinque: whole problem with unix is that ALL of its abstractions are porous in exactly the way mircea_popescu described
asciilifeform: incl. stream
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: but this is no reason to fucking continue in the same vein god have mercy on us.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711948 <-- from which came my "conveniently chosen" remark. convenience starting from e.g. mov eax, ebx vs. mov %ebx, %eax (because this notation looked more "intuitive"/"DWIM" than the other to someone at some particular time in history, so now we have both, but they're incompatible to each other so fuck it)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 21:13 mircea_popescu: the problem of "proxy for thoughalphabet" is that there's no such thing.
mircea_popescu: spyked yes, the problem of idiots being permited next to the machinery and as a result of their gefingerpoken poppencorken is an old one.
asciilifeform: spyked: gas syntax ( i.e. mov %ebx, %eax ) reminds me of how some folx, whose mothers dropped them when they were small, buy textbook and paint over EVERY WORD with yellow highlighter pen ( i have seen these in used bookstores , the yellow ink almost drips from the page )
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: 100% of "sociology" dept crap at the hooke school i went to, was underlined in multicolors. fully underlined.
mircea_popescu: "what are you highlighting ?"
asciilifeform: the 1 useful thing intel did in its entire life, was to introduce sane asm syntax. but unixtards, as is their custom, ignored.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ritual, neh.
mircea_popescu: and the stupid whores would buy a DIFFERENT color magic marker. so it'd be yellow, then blue, then red then pink then orange. that's hjow you'd know five cocksuckers read through that copy of saussure, and the last one was orange because she stops midway
asciilifeform: 'pen will read, so i dun have to,' or somesuch
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's a blessing women have legs, otherwise there'd be multicolored snail trails on all sidewalks.
asciilifeform: lolyes
mircea_popescu: was very much "oh, teh sociology" thing back in the 90s at that uni. because yes, the mommy whores went there.
mircea_popescu: the cool ones did better majors.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: typical big uni in usa consists 99% by weight, of this
asciilifeform: complete with gigatonnes of yellow ink.
mircea_popescu: maybe they start giving degrees to cats next.
asciilifeform: cats have far too much sense, for this.
mircea_popescu: i suspect this may be true.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711973 <-- lulz. this is probably now a trend in "natural language" research. lookie https://aleksiknuutila.github.io/nlp-highlight/ moar training wheels☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 21:26 mircea_popescu: and the stupid whores would buy a DIFFERENT color magic marker. so it'd be yellow, then blue, then red then pink then orange. that's hjow you'd know five cocksuckers read through that copy of saussure, and the last one was orange because she stops midway
mircea_popescu: just roll up the god damned book, lube up and shove it.
mircea_popescu: but it very much goes right to http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-133.0-133.837 : "what do you mean i'm getting flunkied, I DID THE WORK! all that hard work of SITTING! I AM A GIRL AND I SAT!! I SHOULD PASS! I CAN PROVE IT!!!"
mircea_popescu: and this stupid shit works because somehow people are too fucking lazy to live anymore.
asciilifeform: upstack : is it obvious to everyone why the %eax is retarded ? ( same reason $foo in basic/perl/other braindamaged langs is)
phf: i unrelated lulz i googled "putin judo" through an ssh proxy with u.s. ip and the top article is "Is Vladimir Putin a judo fraud? - The Washington Post"
phf: choice quote
phf: "No, says Benjamin Wittes, the editor of the national security blog Lawfare.
phf: Wittes, who happens to be a martial arts aficionado himself, has chided Putin as a âfraudâ and a âphonyâ and is trying to call his bluff by challenging the Russian strongman to a fight in any location where Putin lacks the authority to have him arrested.
phf: "
phf: top, fucking, link
asciilifeform: what next, the pet bear was also fraud?!
asciilifeform: even moar upstack , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711801 was interesting in that it inescapably leads to :☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 19:30 asciilifeform: ( there was an item written by -- that very same -- znort987 ; but it dun work worth a shit )
asciilifeform: warning: failed to locate parent block
asciilifeform: warning: in block 0000000000000699f01c80a9cf8a59b9c2935124490a855015355269a48db237 failed to locate parent block 000000000000040167c69f7a835d124214316b72d9a9fc2ec2413a238b6ab6da
asciilifeform: and the interesting bit is that it does this on 4 different independent copies of blockchain that i have.
asciilifeform: incl. a prb one
asciilifeform: the former is blk#188528 and the latter 188529, ftr.
asciilifeform: if anyone knows of what, if anything, is peculiar re either of these, plx to write in.
asciilifeform: ( and ftr what this eggog results in is a complete failure to find the longestchain. )
mircea_popescu: and briefly back to the literate whore thread : http://trilema.com/2012/power-fashion-editorii-care-au-revolutionat-moda/ ie guess what "fahion editors" did in college.
mircea_popescu: phf you are familiar with "the michael moore method" yes ? as in, http://trilema.com/2012/the-imbecilitarians/#selection-191.0-209.295
mircea_popescu: pantsuits really luv these, so much so they're more than willing to pretend it's the only point and only manifestation of an intellectual life, this sort of "provocative monkeying".
mircea_popescu: and i don't just mean scientific, or imagological baiting. pantsuit.comedy ie "speak truth to power" is supposed to be all about an insufficient monkey goading the closest thing to a lion that could be found. i dunno why they're so fascinated with the pointless nonsense (aside the obvious anal children reference, ofcouars)
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/09/fake-news-still-stoking-losers-delusions/ << Qntra - Fake News Still Stoking Loser's Delusions
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711989 <-- OTOH, because when viewed in context it's redundant and thus useless. they could as well have designated it "tovarishch register eax" instead of simply "eax".☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-10 21:41 asciilifeform: upstack : is it obvious to everyone why the %eax is retarded ? ( same reason $foo in basic/perl/other braindamaged langs is)
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4266.0, vol: 14630.83471276 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4270.0, vol: 45083.781159 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3734.06, vol: 24329.23570000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4321.4, vol: 4056.84157063 | Volume-weighted last average: 4123.70135236
shinohai: ty BingoBoingo o/