menahem: nothing worth noting, mostly "take a hands off approach and wait"
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 23:57:28; trinque: "to ascertain that their bitcoin holdings are not derived from the proceeds of crime." << hilarious
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It wouldn't be the first time
trinque: well, now you know how to make curl and gpg kiss
trinque: inventing bullshit certifications is great business
trinque: reminds me of hearing about someone selling licenses for open source software
mats: TIL GNU wdiff is a thing
decimation: asciilifeform: C macros are of the devil
ag3nt_zer0: if I were to embark on a learning journey exploring the rudiments of programming, would there be good reason to not start with C? I always like to go to the root of something I am learning, which in my ignorant guesswork I like to think C is one of those root languages, but I have heard whisperings here and there that python is the way to go... any thoughts?
decimation: C is essentially the 'bedrock' of modern computers
decimation: unless you want to make your own computing machine I suggest learning bedrock
mats: on the subject of timezones
mats: am confuse about why London is GMT+1
mats: oh, that explains it.
decimation: to make things stupid they also go on daylight savings at different calendar days than we do
decimation: also GMT is kinda outdated, the new thing is french UTC
decimation: ftp://hpiers.obspm.fr/iers/bul/buld/bulletind.124 < after the leap second, DUT1 will be +0.3s
funkenstein_: while we're on the subject of time, i've been working on building a clock
funkenstein_: it grabs headers from several altcoins and estimates the current time
decimation: as I recall this was needed in the pogo
BingoBoingo: <funkenstein_> it grabs headers from several altcoins and estimates the current time << The proper way to build a clock is with brass, a lathe, and a steady hand
funkenstein_: all it does is collect what miners have said the time is
decimation: funkenstein_: it would be useful if you could determine time accuracy and variance
decimation: as well as how quickly you can acquire time
BingoBoingo: They had to fight TimeGavin who fought their efforts to clean code and kill retardation
BingoBoingo: And yes, the shitgnomes fight improvement and cleanliness no matter how seemingly trivial a part of the stack janitors want to devomit
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: And then ATC or Doge abandoment dicks your averaging effort over
decimation: funkenstein_: the point is that you can get time without trusting anything outside verified coins
funkenstein_: danielpbarron, to get better than ~ 10 min. accuracy
BingoBoingo: "coins" have insufficient entropy to be useful as a precision measure of time at all.
mats: precision and accuracy are different things
BingoBoingo: If you want to measure epochs and years BTC blockheight is fine. If you want a race you want something calibrated against nuclear decay.
decimation: mats: I'm aware, don't need precision either
danielpbarron: funkenstein_, you aren't limited to just the last block
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Timekeeping is a battle between astronomy and nuclear chemistry
danielpbarron: could be something like the difficulty adjustment only not limited to the last 2 weeks
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Block height is always going to to a rough measure of time due to entropy. Could make a great system for a calendar, poor for slicing up a day though
BingoBoingo notes that though both are prefixed with shit Shitgnomes and Shitlords are very different things.
BingoBoingo: Shitgnomes leave turd traps and prevent nice things. Shit lords bury gnomes in turds to highlight their wretch. Mike Hearnia is a cononical shitgnome. Theo Deraadt and alf are cononical shitlords
BingoBoingo: Shitgnomes try to ruin the things shit lords want to use
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Start constructing a memory palace.
mats: i don't understand how your link relates to why OpenNTPD is better than ISC NTPD
mats: you are on the edge of coherence tonight
BingoBoingo: Eventually such a shitquake will happen such that we start printing upclocked Z80 processors on a 7nm process
mats: this is too cult-y for me
BingoBoingo: I swear I had a solid case for OpenNTPD over ISC NTPD, but the opinions on timekeeping are kept in a treacherous antipode
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52548 @ 0.00043508 = 22.8626 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23229 @ 0.00043787 = 10.1713 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: mats: Anything work for your carpal tunnel yet? I've got an angry wrist nerve I am trying to conquer
decimation: a company like sennheiser makes actual headphones, with specifications and everything
☟︎ decimation: some dumbfucks make shit plastic and get $3bil
mats: am seriously considering going under the knife in spite of the low chance it'll even work
mats: decimation: about to make even more after beats store goes live
BingoBoingo: I mashed up some naproxen with a bit of leaf from the lambs ear outside to use a a carrier. Positive effect for sure, but prolly would be better with some DMSO.
cazalla: mats, doesn't every nominee have paid actors do that shit?
mats: BingoBoingo: have been popping ibuprofen like candy
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Most hide it better, a few can save some money on true believers.
funkenstein_: decimation, look at any luxury good for the same racket
mats: am around 2g over last two weeks
BingoBoingo: mats: Your poor stomach. What about trying that stuff topical?
mats: am also applying bengay liberally
mats: i have become my grandfather
BingoBoingo: Ouch. Bengay is basically topical super aspirin
mats: i was under the impression that it reduces inflammation
BingoBoingo: The salicyclate is the active part of aspirin
BingoBoingo: I mean you can try a comounding pharmacy for a more extreme replacement for the BenGay. Mixing a different NSAID with amitryptiline or nortryptiline to hit the nerve endings harder
decimation: funkenstein_: yeah I know, people here bitch about the lack of 'adult' products. glitzy candy beats serious in the market every time
☟︎ mats: decimation: nvm, apparently beats music has been up for some time
decimation: mats: yeah I think it came out a few weeks ago
mats: i believe its ulnar nerve entrapment
BingoBoingo: I'm telling you old arthiritic folk love topical tricyclic antidepressants to kill nerve pain, but if truly trapped knife may be an eventuality
mats: I want to know if there's an issue with continuing this regimen of aspirin and ibuprofen
decimation: most folks I know who have knee or back surgery tend to have poor results
mats: BingoBoingo: can i ask for that without a script?
Chicago: mats, I had the left ulnar nerve released in 2010 and still do the meds. They're really not so helpful.
BingoBoingo: mats: You'd need a script, and you'd need a compounding pharmacy to fill the script.
mats: the meds are not helpful, or the release was not helpful?
Chicago: mats, The release was done and may be needed again in the future. I still have the numbness in 4th and 5th digits of the left hand once in a while (but not as bad as the constant it was prior). The meds though, I think are more for my comfort and not a real treatment. They're not solving anything.
Chicago: Prior to the release, I couldn't feel the keyboard underneath my fingers for 6 months.
mats: a fairly common outcome, i think
mats: maybe its time for us to learn typing with feet
cazalla: gee you guys must spend a lot of time jacking it to require surgery
BingoBoingo: If you find a doctor who can help you go with a heavier topical preparation you can also switch out from ibuprofen to something like diclofenac which is too antiinflammatory to take orally
Chicago: I adapted my workstation heavily. So the change has made a difference in comfort. Now, the desk is about 36" deep and I can rest my arm on it and the keyboard sits deep too.
Chicago: So there is room to have uniform pressure on the lower part of the arm.
mats: BingoBoingo: no ulcer yet
cazalla: Chicago, ah you don't use both arms?
Chicago: Just my mouth, both feet and my right fist.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22426 @ 0.00043022 = 9.6481 BTC [-] {2}
Chicago: mats, I know I've taken the Norco bottle and thrown it _far_ away from me in the past.
Chicago: Sometimes its just too much medicine and I'd like to crap once in a while.
Chicago: mats, Does the alleged shooter look autistic to you?
cazalla: i'd bet this guy was a /pol/ack
Chicago: (with the small jaw and all)
mats: no the only remarkable thing about this guy is the bowl cut
mats: id probably go on a shooting spree too
mats: this guy was a victim of bullying for sure
mats: no doubt by some nigs
cazalla: nah, he just wanted to beat brevik's high score and failed miserably
decimation: what about that azn guy who shot up virginia state
decimation: somehow the media didn't talk much about him
cazalla: he was all over it decimation
cazalla: that one came close but still.. no brevik
decimation: well, as yarvin pointed out, brevik struck at the king and failed to kill him
mats: Is that supposed to be a reference to the wire
cazalla: mats, you best not miss eh?
Vexual: moores law gets orbited?
cazalla: lol when all his friends are black
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00044518 = 6.6777 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00042886 = 7.8481 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30950 @ 0.00045121 = 13.9649 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: where did those aussie pics come from, just random posters?
copypaste: cazalla: lol i saw one where they said 8chan was shut down
cazalla: punkman, i assume the girls share the pics themselves or their boyfriends take em and share with their mates
cazalla: copypaste, i wouldn't be surprised if they use this bullshit to block 8chan from aus
cazalla: they're pushing through laws to allow blacklists to stop piracy so no doubt they'll use that to expand to other sites
copypaste: cazalla: well the board creator of /aus/
copypaste: is a pussy so he deleted the thread after seeing al the news haha
cazalla: well given it's illegal to even view them, i'll stick to /pol/
cazalla: i don't know specifically (perhap it isn't even illegal)
copypaste: i'm not even sure it's illegal in Aus to host them
copypaste: immoral? perhaps (even i don't think it's immoral)
copypaste: they flipped their shit when i told them in the US that if their boyfriends took the pictures that means the boyfriends own the pictures and only they can write DMCAs
☟︎ cazalla: not even so much immoral, the women took the pics themselves and this idea 17 year olds are children but 18 year olds are adults is beyond retarded
copypaste: being the subject of a picture has no bearing on anything
copypaste: most of them are obviously overage
copypaste: fat ugly whores the vast majority. i flipped through out of curiosity.
cazalla: well i wouldn't know on account that i've not viewed them
cazalla: but most australian women are massive sluts
copypaste: i had no choice but to look considering the reports come to me.
copypaste: and some had been uploaded to the site, of course.
cazalla: anyway they're blaming teenage boys but how are they to know it's boys sharing these images? could be gender fluid lesbians for all they know
cazalla: australian wasn't even like this 20 years ago.. i was a teenager in the late 90s and there was none of this
cazalla: this moral panic has come about in the past 10 or so years
copypaste: it's amusing how people are still adjusting to the internet
copypaste: you are giving younger and younger kids cameras connected to a network at all times
mats: i have been considering the possibility of .cn backing the hard fork
mats: if it happens they will have implicitly admitted that their humint indicates nobody else is even close to running a comparable plurality of compute power
cazalla: copypaste, i'm not even so sure the young girls they interview are upset that their pics are out there but more so it isn't actually anything special once they're included in a directory of hundreds of other girls.. and they thought they were special!
assbot: Pétition · President of the People's Republic of China: STOP THE YULIN DOG MEAT EATING FESTIVAL · Change.org ... (
http://bit.ly/1J7sArO )
cazalla: i'm sure mircea_popescu can explain the phenomenon
assbot: Understanding type confusion vulnerabilities: CVE-2015-0336 - Microsoft Malware Protection Center - Site Home - TechNet Blogs ... (
http://bit.ly/1J7sD6Y )
cazalla: mats, have you had dog before?
mats: no, but i'd try it if offered
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36750 @ 0.00044844 = 16.4802 BTC [-]
mats: although i suspect it'd be a lot like eating bear
cazalla: what?! (yeah i'd give it a try)
mats: would not recommend
cazalla: he's asian (chinese yeah?)
mats: i dunno, my buddy is an outdoorsman and offered it to me
mats: he did all the prep
mats: made it like you'd normally do a steak
cazalla: well everyone does their steak a bit different
mats: he put it in the oven and then seared it on a pan
mats: i've heard a lot of varying things about it, i might try bear again if offered
mats: my buddy describes it as being savory and sweet
cazalla: i wish we had more kangeroo products on offer down under
mats: aren't they usually infested?
cazalla: no idea, most butchers (not many butchers around either these days) don't carry it
cazalla: they do export a bit of it though
punkman: I tried a frozen kangaroo steak, I imagine a good quality piece won't be bad at all
mats: i can't think of many things i wouldn't try at least once
mats: cricket burger was very tasty and changed my outlook on new things
punkman: where the crickets mashed into a patty?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20835 @ 0.00045652 = 9.5116 BTC [+] {2}
mats: there was a little crunch but i think there was some other filler in there
mats: like eggplant or something
cazalla: never had it but i imagine it taste like prawn heads (love eating those after i've mashed em to make stock for tom yum goong)
mats: ended up tasting like a fairly decent approximation
cazalla: not sure i'd eat that.. not a fan of tofu
mats: you'll never be fooled into thinking its meat, but i rather like meat substitutes for their flavors
mats: soy and gluten are very good as bases and soak up whatever you put on em
cazalla: rather use something like beans or lentils
mats: is it the texture that you don't like about tofu?
punkman: even the asian imports guy around here doesn't carry tofu, dunno why
cazalla: mats, not so much the texture but the taste.. it's just bland (or maybe i've only ever had shitty tofu)
Naphex: looking for ad spots for xotika.tv. /msg
mats: i'd say its subtle rather than bland
mats: with the real, high quality stuff, can eat it plain
mats: tofu is kind of an analogue for real chinese cuisine
☟︎ mats: there's a much bigger emphasis on subtlety thats often misinterpreted as blandness by foreigners whose palettes are accustomed to american chinese food
mats: fried and heavily salted shit, strong flavors like 'orange chicken', 'general tso's chicken', etc
cazalla: yeah my missus and her friend were raving over this yum cha place but i'd never go again, fkn msg on everything
mats: msg presents differently in various things
☟︎ mats: i'd suggest testing it yourself but nobody ever wants to actually buy msg
mats: try some greens with msg and without, for example
cazalla: well i'm assuming it was MSG but i'm not a fan of it or overly salty shit and that's what it was
mats: i would not be able to identify msg as the culprit for the new flavor profile
mats: thats probably it, too much salt is a common complaint
mats: i think i'll have dim sum this weekend
punkman: mats: i'd suggest testing it yourself but nobody ever wants to actually buy msg < I've bought a bag of msg, it's pretty great
punkman: too much and it ruins stuff of course
Naphex: i want to place xotika ads, not the other way around :P
kakobrekla: well, you can buy a bitbet banner slot
kakobrekla: i think its 0.1 per slot per month if you are interested
wyrdmantis: I was asked if there is a "defense" plan to "isolate" the Bitcoin XT nodes or something similar. I thought this is a non-issue for you guys...
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20800 @ 0.00043355 = 9.0178 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31050 @ 0.00043801 = 13.6002 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24943 @ 0.00043846 = 10.9365 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00043887 = 3.4232 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: tldr: Pool implements a replace by fee patch, derps herp because it means People can double spend before the transaction is committed to a block!
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00043048 = 20.7061 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5557 @ 0.00043887 = 2.4388 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23229 @ 0.00044922 = 10.4349 BTC [+]
mats: am a fan of locking and storing the bolt carrier group and actual weapon separately
ascii_field: mats: do you at least have a bayonet? or plan to bludgeon intruder with the butt of the bolt-less rifle ?
mats: not hard to detect an intruder, and there are easy ways to fashion fatal funnels to defender's advantage
mats: could knife the fella or just put the weapon together, takes less than 30s to unlock and load
ascii_field: mats: try to think like usg. police show up, you are alive and slum bunny is dead. prosecutor: 'proof that he had the bolt in. otherwise he oughta be dead.'
mats: usg is the only actor id be worried about breaching my home
mats: few hoods know to bring four dudes and clear corners
ascii_field: why not keep white flag instead of rifle then ?
ascii_field: what purpose is served by 'bolt separately' other than to satisfy inspectors ?
mats: protect kids from their parents, mostly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3188 @ 0.00044922 = 1.4321 BTC [+]
ascii_field: [insert mircea_popescu's article re: 'married men' here]
jurov: heh. so they should be striked out of gun violence stats, got it
menahem: mircea_popescu - you're a smash, very popular. :D
menahem: oh i posted a screenshot, lemme find it
trinque: and look, backed up by tweets!
mats: uniques, the currency of the internets
mircea_popescu: menahem so is that "130 people checked it out 0 bought" ?
menahem: ecommerce tracking wasn't added until last night
menahem: we had 1 sale of the MP tee :D
mircea_popescu: if it ever makes you rich, donate to teh bitcoin foundation
menahem: i'll def take some responsibility to fund that in the future.
ascii_field tried last night to backport 'dumpprivkey' and 'importprivkey' from phoundation-0.7 and found that relevant data structures are entirely different
mircea_popescu: yes, this is why 0.7 was right off when we discussed the branch
ascii_field: also how the fuck did anyone use bitcoin for serious battlefield operation prior to dump-/importprivkey ?
ascii_field: iirc there was an external kludge that walked db ?
mircea_popescu: nobody serious to my knowledge has used this software as-is.
mircea_popescu: kind-of why the blind insistence / pretense put forth by the power rangers is so amusing to me
mircea_popescu: seriously, anyone gives a shit abvout what you release ? as anything other than toilet reading material ? when did that happen ?
mircea_popescu: they keep pretending like oh, the miners bla bla. nobody, ever, actually used the shit raw. because you can't, because obvious reasons.
mod6: ascii_field tried last night to backport 'dumpprivkey' and 'importprivkey' from phoundation-0.7 and found that relevant data structures are entirely different << yeah, i found the same thing back 5-6 months ago when trying to do the same thing. glad there seems to be a workaround, i'm told.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00044933 = 11.368 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: anyway, I haven't had a chance yet to try out the pywallet.py thing myself; ascii_field lettuce know if it works for ya plz.
mod6: shinohai said it worked for him.
shinohai: That is just a hacky thing to me though. Definitely not a full scale solution.
mod6: in the case of pywallet.py, it looks like you just have to --dumpwallet, instead of being able to feed it a pub address and getting out a privkey right?
mircea_popescu: sooner or later everyone ends up with a full bitcoin data manipulator built in their favourite language, python or not.
mod6: mircea_popescu: yah
mircea_popescu: it'd be nice if the reference client provided this, however, what with thew "accounts" bullshit and etc in there, i doubt it'll be this decade.
funkenstein_ considers bitaddress.org + coinb.in on offline box the reference wallet
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 19:53:19; nubbins`: unfortunately mp just left so he is unable to inform us that the hallucinogenic effects of drugs don't exist and we're deluding ourselves into pretending to be hallucinating
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19344 @ 0.00044836 = 8.6731 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00042727 = 3.9736 BTC [-]
shinohai: Then once I figure out how to produce these hallucinogenic effects at will in my mind, I shall sell the secrets on Agora and dry it all up.
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 19:57:49; mats: all i did was walk around naked
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:05:17; ascii_field: trinque: always wanted to try this, but never came close to accessing the dope
hazirafel_: don't know if this is a good place to ask, but here ... i'm code literate in java , and i really want to learn to know my way around fiddling with blockchains and bitcoin, i would love advice on places to start and where to get help and information. i guess i need to learn C first but i'm looking for more advice. thanks!
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:07:16; ascii_field: they machine-gunned his dogs
mircea_popescu: and only agreed to hire a replacewment once the replacement swore he is firing every single lieutenant in the department ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: instead, they're preoccupied with the liberty problems of trans-idiots.
mats: magic mushrooms make me want to poop myself during the entire experience
hazirafel_: i forgot i read that being nice on the internet makes people think you're stupid. any fucking help bit-assholes?
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:34:36; ascii_field: nubbins`: can then say 'i took 5ug and discovered proof of goldbach's conjecture' or 'i took 500 and learned that thirty-three is purple'
mircea_popescu: hazirafel_ listen, there is no practical way to understand anything relevant re bitcoin without actually reading the code. and the code is c++. you will have to do this as a first step.
hazirafel_: ok cool. i've been reading the developers guid
mircea_popescu: the alternative, if you are a business person, is to have a programmer "read it to you", but this is expensive and rare a tradecraft, so. expect to spend the next year laying groundowkr, mostly in terms oif reading the codebase and wondering at the wonders of c++
mircea_popescu: the problem with reading the developer guide is the same problem with reading mark twain, the cliff notes.
mircea_popescu: a) not in any sense funny and b) very dangerous, ion that it offers you the illusion of having understood (through recognition mostly) but no actual understanding. which is how people end up writing insecure applications
hazirafel_: who am i? :my name is sarah, i live in the 'holy land' , i did some programming courses in collage but bitcoin actually motivates me to learn the nuts and bolts, was looking around the net, saw a recommendation of this cha
assbot: hazirafel_ is not registered in WoT.
hazirafel_: mircea you're talking about the developers guide?
hazirafel_: yeah i need to register. ok so you're saying learn c++ and read the source code?
hazirafel_: any recommendations for learning c++? how much time do you think is needed for basics? are questions welcome on this chat?
mircea_popescu: questions are welcome, a reasonably intelligent & cultured person (which means 1% of ivy league) should be able to complete this in a year.
jurov: for c++ there's alway the K&R canon
hazirafel_: ehh... complete learning C++ or bitcoin literate ? Ivy League doesn't mean shit necessarily, from the people i've met
mircea_popescu: well yeah, but i don't know you, and so i have nfi what reference points to use, and so...
jurov: otherwise, learning programming is mostly individual affair
jurov: you can expect some false starts before you find material suitable to you
mircea_popescu: and, "sufficient proficiency in both c++ and bitcoin so as to be able to follow all the discussion here, and only say something stupid 50% of the time and less, and understand why it's stupid once explained 90% of the time or more"
mod6: the logs (see /topic ) have a wealth of knowledge too. the last 6-12 months are worth a read.
trinque: davout: saw your feedback re: going through deeds by author. sounds great; I'll try to find time for that
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 19:41:25; mircea_popescu: but yes, k&r is prolly how one should start cpp
ascii_field: cpp is introduced in stroustrup but this in turn breathes not a word re: 'boost' etc
mircea_popescu: which i suspect is actually the result of just how broken school is these days.
assbot: Logged on 15-04-2014 18:34:43; asciilifeform: 'we refuse to produce any more C programmers who are a danger to themselves and others.' -- my old dean
mircea_popescu: it was built, by people, through the process of taking risks.
mircea_popescu: didn't you grow up like sane people, in a sovblok urban development with 1k kids your age / acre and no tv to speak of ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes but was then moved to usa where was nearly total hermit since age ~9
shinohai: The blockchain is sacred. Don't fuck with it ala Gavin
mircea_popescu: let the unfortunate nato schmucks grown on facebook complain of "brain circuitry"
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 19:21:48; mircea_popescu: and only agreed to hire a replacewment once the replacement swore he is firing every single lieutenant in the department ?
mircea_popescu: "your job is to defend, me first of all. you failed. go try your hand at garbage moving."
ascii_field: ^ matters in the sense that mayor of city of college park cannot fire md state police
ascii_field: fires them for failing to kill the state police? l0l!
mircea_popescu: if the line is breached, the officers decimate THEIR infantry, not the enemy's
ascii_field: when the muppets open up on one another, i promise to wake up mircea_popescu. though it might have to be over spark-gap radio
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27226 @ 0.00042727 = 11.6329 BTC [-]
ascii_field: where was the thread where mircea_popescu observed, 'if they weren't dumb shits we would not even be having this line of thought' ?
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 19:21:25; hazirafel_: don't know if this is a good place to ask, but here ... i'm code literate in java , and i really want to learn to know my way around fiddling with blockchains and bitcoin, i would love advice on places to start and where to get help and information. i guess i need to learn C first but i'm looking for more advice. thanks!
ascii_field: for some reason i can't help but recall the kidz of 1990s who always began with 'where do i learn to write a game like 'doom' ?'
mircea_popescu: most kids get into programming because they want to make a mmorpg.
mircea_popescu: which, and i say from bitter experience, is just as large a task as making an os, and so... the largest class there is.
ascii_field: but when you tell them 'write a 1980s-style MUD first' they balk
mircea_popescu: and you'll notice i never tell 'em that. it's a stupid thing to say.
mircea_popescu: "how do i get the girl i love ?" "get some sluts first"
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 15:39:53; asciilifeform: every time i see the bed of nails i think of the soviet caricature
hazirafel_: you have a point, if i had the inclination into codeing needing to be block-chain literate i would of be swimming in it by my age... maybe
ascii_field: but in this case i do not think it is unreasonable to ask kid to learn wtf programming even means, prior to writing 'doom'
trinque: ascii_field: LOL @ "start small"
hazirafel_: in which i mean, liking programming enough.
mircea_popescu: hazirafel_ it's really a lot like racing. to be into racing more than someone cheering in the stands / swimsuit model crowding the finish line, you gotta take an engine apart. grease and all.
ascii_field: ^ many would-be 'doom' authors discover that they can't actually stomach the very notion of a machine which behaves precisely as instructed and not 'as intentioned'
mircea_popescu: the advantage is that c++ grease doesn't irritate the skin. the disadvantage is that well... this thing has i would estimate about 10 to 100x more moving parts than a car,
ascii_field: (this may be the ultimate psychological group divide)
mircea_popescu: and the relationships a good two layers deeper/more complex.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that's nothing but the infancy/adulthood divide. it's not a personal descriptor
mircea_popescu: other than "this adult exhibits intellectual neoteny".
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: recall the little quiz, where the kidz who made consistent errors usually passed the next 4 years, while of the shooters in the dark - none did
ascii_field: (all of these with no prior experience programming)
mircea_popescu: in other news, "the proportion of female faces that are more feminine than the most feminine male faces is much greater than the proportion of male faces that are more masculine than the most masculine female faces."
mircea_popescu: apparently recent research actually settles this point
hazirafel_: i did this course where i wrote in java for 30 hours a week, i have no problem doing it, no pain, didn't love it, it was mildley fun . my problem was organization, i expect it's much worse in C , but i could see it as a motivation for thinking in a more organized way.
hazirafel_: mireca i didn't get your comment about the kidz and the errors
hazirafel_: "mircea_popescu: recall the little quiz, where the kidz who made consistent errors usually passed the next 4 years, while of the shooters in the dark - none did [23:02] <+ascii_field> (all of these with no prior experience programming)"
mircea_popescu: he said it, and directed it at me, which is why my name is in there.
ascii_field: hazirafel_: this is related to a very old article, entitled 'the camel has two humps'
shinohai: Well those kids learned what *doesn't* work
trinque: wiki.t-o-f.info/uploads/EDM4600/The camel has two humps.pdf
ascii_field: which argued convincingly that a certain essential skill for learning to program cannot actually be taught
mod6: hazirafel_: along with the logs: trilema.com if you don't already
trinque: obviously paste the whole thing; escape codes didn't make it in
mircea_popescu: ascii_field incidentally, i suspect the dataset there has a major flaw. to model it : two classes of brothel patrons. class A comes to reception, asks "do the girls here to X ?" ; class B comes to reception, asks "what can girls here do for me ?"
mircea_popescu: which of the two do you propose are more likely to spend money ?
mircea_popescu: necessarily. the latter propose to select from the set given, the former have a preformed set they compare to.
ascii_field: 'what can they do? -- wash cars. -- ok, my car is dusty, let's wash'
mircea_popescu: now, which would you say is likely to contain the largest proportion of intelligent people ?
ascii_field: fluffypony: winblows ce! in that photo. look carefully
mircea_popescu: fluffypony haha. nothing of the stealth plane yet huh.
ascii_field: 'When JTRS started, software-defined radio (SDR) was still in its infancy. The project's SCA architecture allowed software to manipulate field-programmable gate arrays (FPGAs) in the radio hardware to reconfigure how its electronics functioned, exposing those FPGAs as CORBA objects. But when development began, hardware implementations of CORBA for FPGAs didn’t really exist in any standard form.' << giga-l0l!
mircea_popescu: ascii_field to round up what i mean, class A are perhaps "the shooters in the dark". which means, they have an idea what they want, and programming [as taught] fails to satisfy [which is the fault of the teachers].
ascii_field: as if fpga has ~ever~ (at least since '92 or so) been 'exposed' as anything but the blackest of black boxes
mircea_popescu: this is then mis-represented as "there's something wrong wit hthe patrons"
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: iirc the author of 'camels' did investigate what the 'shooters in dark' had in common - and in all cases, it was an inability to comprehend that the machine is entirely blind to human intent, and to build meaningful mental models of purely mechanistic systems as a class
mircea_popescu: but my proposition is that perhaps he found this because it's what he wanted to find.
mircea_popescu: and incompetent pinoy brothel owner decides "gringos are assholes"
mircea_popescu: not "our brothel really fucking sucks, who ever heard of this"
hazirafel_: dose extensive experience with Asperger people count?
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:38:16; ascii_field: would you tolerate this with coffee? booze ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i specified 'coffee does not vary by order of magnitude'
ascii_field: (for one thing, if it did, you would typically be dead after a few pulls of the roulette trigger)
hazirafel_: comprehending machines, i guess i'm kidding
trinque: hazirafel_: those types tend to do what they're told; wouldn't call it understanding
mircea_popescu: wasn't it the case caffeine tolerance actually builds to degrees of magnitude ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: different animal vs. 'roll dice to decide how many zeros appear in front of the milligram figure'
ascii_field: ditto for something like, e.g., an ordinary cig
mircea_popescu: well ok, getting 2 grams of nicotine would put you out
ascii_field: if it could just as easily contain 1g as 1mg of nicotine, it would be a suicide device
trinque: this is why you should have friends more reckless than you are
trinque: when it doesn't kill them, great
ascii_field: as a boy, i saw a '80s sov. film where a couple split up their possessions with gigantic laser
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:42:01; *: ascii_field wonders why nubbins` is publicly begging lizard hitler to order his mail opened and tested
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, people who sell very weak stuff prolly lose their custom
mircea_popescu: so, it may vary but it won't vary as drastically as you propose. prolly more in line with coffee/caffeine.
trinque: marriage, not even once...
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 21:31:46; cazalla: ah i think she's attractive, just has that mousy look.. no cocks either! maybe mp could learn a thing or two from you :P
shinohai: @ trinque "marriage, not even once" <<< My motto
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 22:12:43; ag3nt_zer0: does anyone have experience with gpgtools for mac?
mircea_popescu: i suspect what they mean is, "someone with experience with crapple software that doesn't suck"
mircea_popescu: may be a bridge too far, too thin, too short and too fallen in the water too long ago.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: and by 'for mac' they almost always mean 'using mac gui'
ascii_field: (normal shell-only gpg builds fine on mac)
thestringpuller: I suspekt the second you put priv keys on a mac they go straight ot the secret iCloud.
shinohai: @ thestringpuller i had a pm from a guy using a mac last night using gpg on a mac (gui) I couldn't help because I know dick about macs.
trinque: shinohai: that macgpg thing seems like a wad of unnecessary crap
trinque: er no, "gpgtools" is the one I had in mind
shinohai: gpgtools was what he was using. I was drinking pernod and told him to fuck off and use linux basically
trinque: no, that's precisely the right response
trinque: I'll happily lead a noob through using the proper tools, but wont bother with someone who refuses to use the proper tools
shinohai: I tried to help him but I m hoplessly out of my element with other OS's no matter how hard I try
mod6: <+trinque> no, that's precisely the right response << i wonder if its easier to just tell mac people to fire up a vm of linux/bsd and just use gpg inside of that?
mod6: but overall, i agree.
trinque: mod6: maybe; I'd like to see a standard piece of hardware recommended at some point
☟︎ shinohai: I have a shitty laptop that came with Win8, I wouldn't trade it for a Mac even if you added a few btc to the mix
trinque: I might buy one of the pcengines machines ascii_field pointed out soon
shinohai: I must add I put Debian Jessie on that laptop in place of 8
ascii_field: nor does attaching one through the m-pcie slots appear to work
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 20:55:44; trinque: mod6: maybe; I'd like to see a standard piece of hardware recommended at some point
trinque: ascii_field: yeah I chose "pointed out" to keep from saying that's your recommended box
ascii_field: it is good for approximately same kind of uses as pogo
trinque: yeah, I'm thinking this would be a bitcoind dev/build box
ascii_field: trinque: so long as you're ok with operating over '80s-style terminal
trinque: and was thinking of snagging decimation's terminal
ascii_field: trinque: are you also ok with building own bios ?
trinque: what's the tooling to write to that run?
ascii_field: needless to say it's built around amd g-series chip. so when amd kisses good-bye, that's all for this box
ascii_field: on account of amd's poor health, i see x86 as being very soon dead to me entirely
trinque: of late I collect two things; old computers/parts and PDFs
trinque: while they can be got, heh
trinque: tends to be the format for papers posted here
ascii_field: most 'old computer' catagory is worthless.
shinohai: There is no such thing as an obsolete computer in my mind, unless it is hopelessly fragmented by usg
shinohai: I just need to find a way to think around it.
ascii_field: the only thing more useless than a modern opaque turd is a 1990s opaque turd that no one is ~even working on~ reverse-engineering today
ascii_field: i bought a spiffy-looking fanless 486 box some weeks ago, for playing gamez
trinque: ascii_field: no value in collecting say "pre-9/11" hardware?
trinque: asking genuinely, perhaps there's not
ascii_field: trinque: depends very much on whether you can distinguish genuinely valuable things from the kind of garbage i was describing just now
ascii_field: to finish the story, i dug for data sheets for the 'ali' chipset found therein, in hopes of affixing something like a 'cmos battery' - and found, unsurprisingly, nothing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34401 @ 0.00042685 = 14.6841 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: i would like 486 but not if i have to set up the disk thing every time it turns on.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6649 @ 0.00041705 = 2.773 BTC [-]
shinohai: I'd rather build something on my own when I haz knowledge
ascii_field: shinohai: chip is available now, on other boards. yet another 'arm', nothing remarkable about it
shinohai: I can do the same thing with any discarded android, with enuf time
ascii_field: thing is a turd, from the black-box cpu (all 'arm' are builds of opaque licensed blob from uk) to the 'systemd' shit ecosystem that will run on top
shinohai: I <3 Debian but the bloated systemd kills me
trinque: shinohai: try mod6's gentoo build maybe
trinque: has most of the bullshit removed via USE
shinohai: @ trinque I am a dumb fuck that knows nothing about gentoo. I wish I could so I could slap Luke Jr in da face.
trinque: the guide is directly aimed at noobs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00042897 = 5.0618 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37682 @ 0.00042897 = 16.1644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17949 @ 0.00044186 = 7.9309 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: trinque: need a link?
ascii_field: back to the 'plz recommend standard hardware that isn't retarded' thing - i can't help but rub in the point here, that we are playing 'junkyard wars'
trinque: mod6: pulled it from teh logz for shinohai
mod6: ok np. just checkin
ascii_field: there ~is not a good answer~ to this question
ascii_field: in the words of orlov, 'try asking a different question, to which there may be an answer'
decimation: ascii_field: re: JTRS < lolfest of usg spending on academitardation
ascii_field: decimation: afaik 100% of usg code that actually ~works~ is 1995 and prior
trinque: ascii_field: my aim is to have something upon which to build buttcoind repeatably
decimation: it's almost dead predictable every time a new tech cycle comes around: usg spends $bil on 'new tech that will save lots of money', fails any gains, actual people working in the field are displaced by carpetbaggers
trinque: after which who knows, I might dare dabble in C++ for the second time in my career
trinque: I've avoided the shit like the plague otherwise
trinque: I have no delusions about having a generally useful computer this decade
decimation: ascii_field: yes, radios that are designed to work as radios rather than platonic ideals of radios do tend to work well
decimation: plus, once you are paying $bil to corba and java developers, they are not gonna listen to some rf engineer who knows about radios
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> turned out, it lacks a bios battery << oh i recall those shitty boards.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: this thing started life as a winblows-ce (yes) graphical terminal
mircea_popescu: there was a huge cost to, basically, gavinize computers around that time. it's how "mmx" processors came about, and "streamlined" mobos with no batteries etc.
decimation: mmx is a streaming extension to x86 for processing floating point
mircea_popescu: decimation no no, there was a shitty series of 486 processors
decimation: yeah the sx was without the floating point unit I think
decimation: note the divorce between marketing and technologists
mircea_popescu: "because technocomputerology is not masses accessible sufficiently!111"
mircea_popescu: How Stars Like Cara Delevingne, Kristen Stewart, & Miley Cyrus Are Leading the Gender Fluid Movement for Millennials << who the fuck are these "stars" ?
ascii_field: a usual gambit is to try to 'luxurify the ordinary' by getting folks used to a crippled item, then re-introducing the missing bits
mircea_popescu: more importantly, how do we know it's not "buncha anon hags are driving the star-fluid movement, wherein everyone thinks they're a star"
decimation: for instance this dre fellow thinks he knows how to engineer headphones
decimation: add a few ounces of metal to the cheapass plastic; charge $200
trinque: speaks volumes on apple's present state
decimation: at any rate the irs definitely taxes your shit on it, even if unspendable
mircea_popescu: omfg! i totally called it. ITS THE SAME LIFTED PHOTOS GUYSE!
decimation: I thought it was well known that anything to do with 'popular music' is essentially nothing more than a marketing chumpatron
trinque: they take a skinny white chick and feed her into the machine every other year
decimation: sometimes it helps if she has singing talent, but it's not that important
trinque: decimation: they don't even make 'em do that r&b yodel anymore
mircea_popescu: so i guess they decided they could make more money by keeping fewer clone tanks
trinque: just autotune the shit and put some buzzing synth in there
decimation: greenspun: "(compare to about $25,000 per flight hour to charter (source)). If American Airlines spent this much during the 7-hour flight from London to Boston it would cost $1.44 million for the trip in operating cost (i.e., not including the capital cost of the aircraft) or about $3500 per passenger (i.e., a round-trip coach ticket couldn?t be sold for less than about $7000 plus taxes and fees)."
mircea_popescu: sooo... ? his point being that airlines are robbing us blind ?
decimation: no his point is that obama's airplane is
decimation: actual round trip ticket to london is like $1k
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 22:36:07; mats: casual racism is the norm here
decimation: so somehow air force one costs 7x regular airliner
mircea_popescu: you don't actually want the president to travel with the immigrands ?
decimation: I think the uk prime minister flys on british airways
decimation was unaware that svelte transport on grand air-sedan (powered by pure slave money) was needed for greatness
trinque: hell, sounds kinda fun though
ascii_field: i've been reading an autobiography of hans baur, best known as hitler's pilot. he spoke of various folks he had flown, and described how king of bulgaria flew part of a trip with him, then caught an ordinary train
mircea_popescu: i think modern eyes still understand bulgaria's a shithole.
decimation: ascii_field: the best part of that 20 juli movie with tom cruise were the scenes with hitler's planes
trinque: sounds like folksy pandering
trinque: among the waste in usg, air force one is way in the long tail
trinque: and look what happened to him
mircea_popescu: trinque im still in shock someone proposed 7k a seat as outrageous. i must be buying in all the wrong places.
decimation: actually $7k per seat is about right for business/first class
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: add another zero and you can lounge in the entire plane
trinque: I'm not a rich guy or head of state, but seems either merits better shuffling around than what I use
mircea_popescu: maybe double, but certainly not the 10 to 100x the article would need it to be
mircea_popescu: ascii_field what machine you're gonna buy for 700k again ?
decimation: well, you also gotta realize that when air force one is flying, there is usually a fleet of other aircraft for car, plane, etc
mircea_popescu: decimation then it's a not very well written/researched article ?
decimation: Greenspun was just making the side point that the aircraft is relatively expensive to operate compared to others in its class
decimation: it might be confusing, but he points out that a 747 costs about $25k per hour for everything
decimation: who knows how that cost is calculated, because an arbitrary number of usg throne-keepers could be bundled
mircea_popescu: so is the idea something like "it costs 10x more to move this one guy than to move these 450 other guys" ?
mircea_popescu: because at that time, had he not also run a "buy new coinbases from miners at 110% "business" on the side, people would have noticed they're being paid with their own coins.
mircea_popescu: yes, for the special case where you're running a ponzi equal to the monetary mass.
ascii_field: and it is not hard to establish that a heavy share of miners operates at a loss
mircea_popescu: generally, most infrastructure in all times and places operates at a loss, which is why commodification is not particularly welcomed by business people, which is how you get apple.
mircea_popescu: and bad software, and everyone wanting to make their own web app and so on
assbot: Our provider, hosteurope.de shut down our servers due to "political incorrectness" | announcements ... (
http://bit.ly/1QHfaXT )
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 02:03:34; asciilifeform: 'The PiuPiu oversharing site allows users to create PiuPiu accounts and post 140-character messages. The federal government wants PiuPiu to surveil user activity on the site, by archiving any posts that match certain patterns outlined in a national security letter. Subject to the nondisclosure constraints of the letter, PiuPiu may not inform anyone of the surveillance request.'
mircea_popescu: and what a chicklet does is "piuie", ie, "makes the piu sound"
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: speaking of, notice that 2014 medalist is (nominally) chick
mircea_popescu: lack of women in tech is not a problem of women or of tech, but merely of a bunch of dorks going around looking for women in tech in the garbage. well duh, why'd they be in the garbage ?
mircea_popescu: (this is actually an anciend graham post, i subscribe entirely)
ascii_field: 'A lot more men than women choose to do seemingly irrational things such as become petty criminals, fly homebuilt helicopters, play video games, and keep tropical fish as pets (98 percent of the attendees at the American Cichlid Association convention that I last attended were male). Should we be surprised that it is mostly men who spend 10 years banging their heads against an equation-filled blackboard in hopes of
ben_vulpes: re: accounts thread and data structures, this imho is why the change addr behavior mneeds a zappin
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i could shoot the change-addr thing in the head in ten minutes, but mircea_popescu wants to keep it for some reason
mircea_popescu: "some reason" => "let's keep changes to a needed minimum"
ascii_field: personally i see the random-change-addr thing to be as screamingly retarded as memory leak
ascii_field: i'd like to see someone present a coherent argument for the negative here
ben_vulpes: i suppose you'd have us leave testnet in as well
mircea_popescu: the argument was presented last we discussed this. "you can do the things you want to do once you've done the things that must be done and the result works"
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 04:19:54; decimation: mats: the beats thing still pisses me off
ascii_field: but is there an argument actually in favour of the mechanism ?
ben_vulpes: moreover, what all is in this list of 'must be done'?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i agree they're stupid. originally it was "they must go out because they break backups". turned out they don't. now it's "they should go out because they're stupid", which is valid, but also an aesthetic judgement. we're not at aesthetics yet. but eventually, whole wallet scheme needs to be made by someone who's not retarded in the fucking head.
ben_vulpes: oh because a wallet is really a collection of the inputs that a key or set of keys can sign on and so a 'wallet' in the satoshi client parlance is actually not back=up-able if in use?
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 04:28:39; decimation: funkenstein_: yeah I know, people here bitch about the lack of 'adult' products. glitzy candy beats serious in the market every time
mircea_popescu: the only way for the hundred million idiots to not impose their britney spears over anything and everything else is for the hundred million to not have as much as a single cent disposable income.
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 04:20:12; decimation: a company like sennheiser makes actual headphones, with specifications and everything
ascii_field: i put on a 30k set of electrostatic phones in a linguistics lab. air piles to ears instead of wires. still meh.
mircea_popescu: btw, did we discuss the dude that drove an armored vehicle into some texas something or the other ?
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 08:06:30; copypaste: they flipped their shit when i told them in the US that if their boyfriends took the pictures that means the boyfriends own the pictures and only they can write DMCAs
kakobrekla: anyway if anyone is out for headies, 20$ 'superlux 681' will blow away senn hd650 like nothing.
mircea_popescu: somehow "if you made a business you don't own that business", yet "if you have a pair of tits it's your pair of tits"
kakobrekla: they are a chinas copy of some akg model
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 08:22:09; cazalla: you've had bear?
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 08:51:42; mats: tofu is kind of an analogue for real chinese cuisine
mircea_popescu: in truth i don't care much about most chinese cuisine either, but not because it'd be bland. because they can't cook. some stuff is actually excellent, but plenty of stuff is "hey, let's throw everything in the kitchen in the same pot. vinegar, oil, sugar, what the hell."
cazalla: agreed, but i didn't want to offend him so i did not mention this heh
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 08:59:21; mats: msg presents differently in various things
mircea_popescu: cazalla that said, a chinese guy had a decent restaurant a mile from my place in ro (actually, conference went there). guy made some incredible baked eggplant
assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 10:54:47; wyrdmantis: I was asked if there is a "defense" plan to "isolate" the Bitcoin XT nodes or something similar. I thought this is a non-issue for you guys...
mircea_popescu: this shit redditards pull where they go about blathering for three months and then pretend like nothing happened and questions can be asked as if just discovered may work on reddit, but it'll give all of them a busted lip irl.
mats: im inclined to say you've rarely had legit chinese cuisine, and if you did and still feel that way... you have an unrefined palette
mircea_popescu: the entire "consensus" bullshit collapsed because i said back in january exactly what the plan is.
mats: chinese folks have had thousands of years of recorded history to develop recipes
mircea_popescu: for instance - i never ate chinese food in places not owned and operated by chinese people.
mats: can't, food is a personal matter. you don't like what you don't like. cultural context notwithstanding
mircea_popescu: mats and cats have had millions of years to develop fishing implements.
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 17:17:56; BingoBoingo: tldr: Pool implements a replace by fee patch, derps herp because it means People can double spend before the transaction is committed to a block!
mircea_popescu: mats while food is obviously a personal matter, whether one has legit or not legit X food should be verifiable experimentally neh ?
mats: sure. on the other hand, you are a white man, and server or chef might choose to whitewash the meal to appeal to some sense of your palette
mats: but that's unlikely.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22901 @ 0.00045837 = 10.4971 BTC [+]
cazalla: that also doesn't really fit with yum cha and the one i ate at was full of chinese so you'd think it was the good one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21350 @ 0.00045139 = 9.6372 BTC [-]
mats: anyway not really a productive discussion, i don't enjoy thai food but i recognize it takes skill
mircea_popescu: i have no doubt it's food, ie, a product of human industry.
cazalla: mats, i love thai food.. i have a kaffir lime just for this alone
mircea_popescu: ironically, my first exposure to azn cooking was in a thai restaurant
mircea_popescu: (this was on the boston wharf, so a seafood choice perhaps more easy to understand)
mats: i think ill have a lobster roll this weekend
trinque: I identify as lobster; this is offensive.
cazalla: you'll be needing yourself a lobster girl then trinque