gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
Namworld: mircea: yeah, but it by the time vwap change, you'd have time to adjust position
Namworld: Assuming you're watching the price
Bowjob_: All right, I've won the BTC game
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.00876 BTC [-]
Bowjob_: Made my capital back and then some, still 100+ BTC. and then ASIC
taub: wish i wasnt so tired,m ight as well just go to back
taub: bed, and when i wake up its at 92 again
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.00875 BTC [-]
taub: and time to short the second time
Namworld: taub, I have something to sleep soundly
taub: everything to 60 is just a 30% retracement
taub: nothing that unusual
taub: be worried when it breaks 50
pgp: yes... 60 is support
gribble: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
mircea_popescu: it's funny tho, crash happened just after i finally claimed my 50mn mkt cap trophy
Cylta: mircea_popescu are you technically able to start rally/panic sell?
pgp: mp - you jumped the shark
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
Cylta: for example can you do crash like this at any time you want?
pgp: oops.... they might having a real problem right now...
jurov: Cylta, mtgox won't be crashed "technically". instead some clever folks will feed it few indigestible orders
jurov: if that isn't happening already
benkay: whaddaya mean by "indigestible orders"?
jurov: i remember mtgox engine discussed somewhere
jurov: generally it's assumed it is very inefficient
mpexbot: thestringpuller: S.MPOE 1 day: average: 0.00061457 high: 0.00066576 low: 0.0006 volume: 138646 btc: 85.20714111 7 day: average: 0.00066397 high: 0.00072379 low: 0.0006 volume: 1717494 btc: 1140.36576603 30 day: average: 0.00073513 high: 0.00078628 low: 0.0006 volume: 16803773 btc: 12352.973398
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
mpexbot: thestringpuller: S.MPOE Bids: ['27400 @ 0.00064468', '9650 @ 0.00063483', '5172 @ 0.00060001', '1000 @ 0.00060001', '97155 @ 0.0006']
mpexbot: thestringpuller: Asks: ['5000 @ 0.00067292', '5000 @ 0.00068292', '1300 @ 0.00068293', '5000 @ 0.00068294', '5000 @ 0.00069537']
pgp: down hard, methinks...
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 76.51340, Best ask: 78.00000, Bid-ask spread: 1.48660, Last trade: 76.51340, 24 hour volume: 111005.53495385, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.94464
benkay: hey fam, when I send a tx with a confirmation fee, that confirmation fee does *not* come out of the amount sent to the recipient, right?
jurov: can't find it now. basically it was something about mtgox picking top order and doing select for matching orders in a loop
jurov: so if there's many it seizes up
ThickAsThieves: lately, sometimes i see the top ask is a lower price than the next ask on clarkmoody sometimes
Namworld: Last time we were trying to break 75, flash crash to almost 50. Now we try to break 100, flash crash to almost 75. Now starting to go back up again...
KRS1: namworld i noticed that too not sure wha tto make of it though
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 78.50000, Best ask: 78.58238, Bid-ask spread: 0.08238, Last trade: 78.58238, 24 hour volume: 111005.53495385, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.94464
KRS1: could it just be a lot of volume today..i noticed on gox for instance the volume has been high today looking back at a 1 week chart
mircea_popescu: <jurov> can't find it now. basically it was something about mtgox picking top order and doing select for matching orders in a loop << WHAT
KRS1: yesterday had some action..
KRS1: uh that doesnt sound good lol
KRS1: sounds like we'd have some rewinding to do
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00064468 = 3.2234 BTC [-]
taub: Guest14382> come on TANK
taub: im going to bed, its just gonna crawl up to 92
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 300 @ 0.00066676 = 0.2 BTC [+]
gribble: Error: "lag" is not a valid command.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 82.00000, Best ask: 84.62000, Bid-ask spread: 2.62000, Last trade: 84.62000, 24 hour volume: 111005.53495385, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.94464
Namworld: I hope someone is happy with his 50 BTC of worthless PUTs =/
gribble: Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
Cylta: where did you buy puts, people?
Cylta: what if mp can play agaist his options, to correct price of market to not to pay too much?..
damientrog: time to go to bed, seems to be recovering
Namworld: No more buyers, Nam wants cheaper coins!
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 86.00000, Best ask: 88.72000, Bid-ask spread: 2.72000, Last trade: 88.72000, 24 hour volume: 111005.53495385, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.94464
Bowjob: 125add80f475024677b82ce00d26415c7195cb2be27e6522b161a3e64fac8081
Bowjob: How come I cant see this on the tx chain
Namworld: people rushing 10ks of BTC, probably to exchanges
Namworld: Bowjob: I'm having the same problem. I sent a transaction but I don't see it on blockchain.info
Bowjob: I feel slighlty liberated
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 53 @ 0.75 = 39.75 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.00000, Best ask: 89.50000, Bid-ask spread: 2.50000, Last trade: 89.50000, 24 hour volume: 111005.53495385, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.94464
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 50 @ 0.75 = 37.5 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.50000, Best ask: 89.50000, Bid-ask spread: 2.00000, Last trade: 89.50000, 24 hour volume: 111005.53495385, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.94464
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.75 = 4.5 BTC [+]
gribble: Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.00000, Best ask: 89.50000, Bid-ask spread: 1.50000, Last trade: 87.50000, 24 hour volume: 111005.53495385, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.94464
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.00000, Best ask: 89.50000, Bid-ask spread: 2.50000, Last trade: 87.00000, 24 hour volume: 111005.53495385, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.94464
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 61 @ 0.75 = 45.75 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.799 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 15 @ 0.7995 = 11.9925 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.7997 = 1.5994 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7998 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.7999 = 2.3997 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 23 @ 0.8 = 18.4 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.51100, Best ask: 89.00000, Bid-ask spread: 1.48900, Last trade: 89.00000, 24 hour volume: 111005.53495385, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.94464
gribble: Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8185 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.81885 = 2.4566 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.818899 = 2.4567 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.81999 = 8.1999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.82897 = 8.2897 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8393 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.83945 = 2.5184 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.84 = 1.68 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 158 @ 0.84 = 132.72 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.84 BTC [+]
mpexbot: smickles: ^OIX 1 day: no data 7 day: average: 86.3571781 high: 86.36645422 low: 66.22384528 volume: 100848 btc: 19472.9877722 30 day: no data
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.50000, Best ask: 88.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.50000, Last trade: 88.00000, 24 hour volume: 111005.53495385, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.94464
jborkl_: for most retards in one place?
Lyspooner: apparently it's the most retards in one place
Lyspooner: the forum record hadn't been broken since 2011
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 32 @ 0.84 = 26.88 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.85 = 8.5 BTC [+]
Lyspooner: the reddit one is being broken every day
Lyspooner: it feels like more stupid people are hearing about bitcoin all the time
Lyspooner: but right now i see lots of "how does it work?" "it goes up"
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C750T] 1000 @ 0.15872391 = 158.7239 BTC [+]
smickles: mircea_popescu: 'endless march' has a nice ring to it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 1.88 = 3.76 BTC [+]
Namworld: Ah, I could finally pay out BTC-BOND and still have lots of BTC to trade.
Lyspooner: i'm jealous of all the people who can trust a new currency they never heard about without trying to understand a) how it kind of works and b) why it might be favorable to other currencies
Namworld: I'm needing BTC-BOND to have a large trading capital less and less.
Lyspooner: well if they do it happily, that's great
jurov: Namworld stop spoiling things!
taub: Lyspooner> bitcointalk forum new record set
Namworld: lol at the expanding chocolate
taub: plot new users, topics and posts against price
taub: interesting results
taub: it also peaked at $30
Lyspooner: taub, the last time bitcointalk set a new record, the bubble burst
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 86.10002, Best ask: 86.48900, Bid-ask spread: 0.38898, Last trade: 86.10002, 24 hour volume: 127589.30954445, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.39577
jurov: counting memegenerator links is simpler
Bowjob: I can't find my tx on the block
Namworld: It might just not have been relayed
Namworld: I got one that's there and another that's not showing up
Bowjob: nam. what happens to it then
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 85.79006, Best ask: 85.79668, Bid-ask spread: 0.00662, Last trade: 85.79668, 24 hour volume: 127719.97605760, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.39194
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude. bitcoin people don't have the intellectual wherewithal to wipe their own nose.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00064468 = 14.4408 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: the devteam doesn't know which side is up sufficiently to test its own code.
mircea_popescu: miners have yet to figure out wtf hedging is and how it works, in spite of it being explaiend on trilema, diff futures being available etc.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 20 @ 0.839995 = 16.7999 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: and you want me to believe anyone actually thinks ? get out for srsly.
Bowjob: great. electum is down
mircea_popescu: if somebody is smart enough to implement evil colluding front trading,
mircea_popescu: they'd be making about 10x that by... i dunno... making an asic run.
mircea_popescu: one that's not run by retards who apparently can't get 20kw installed in one place or whatever the fuck.
mircea_popescu: seriously, there's so much free space for white hatness that you'd have to be quite insane to bother with darkhatness.
mircea_popescu: we have to come to a discussion of boring, because on the straight motivation factor this makes no sense.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8778 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: greed'd be better served by more useful applications atm.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.8779 = 7.0232 BTC [+]
Namworld: those low calls have a breakeven point of like 2000 USD/BTC+
mircea_popescu: so some idiot thinks he's the bee's knees and you show him better.
mircea_popescu: this is like people stumbling and landing on their face in public imagining "everyone saw". nope. nobody gave a shit.
jurov: all in all, watching another feeble and desperate attempt by humanity to reinvent itself.
mircea_popescu: i still don't see who'd care or why'd it matter. at all, like.
Bowjob: Do we have technically minded people here?
mircea_popescu: probably difficult to digest, but i don't. i'm strictly interested in thinking things through and implementing them correctly.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.20002, Best ask: 88.34000, Bid-ask spread: 0.13998, Last trade: 88.20002, 24 hour volume: 131782.34304095, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.35351
jurov: asciilifeform: how? whales move in and out of 1Fx.... all the time
KRS1: otc seems a better deal
Namworld: my transaction just ain't confirming...
jurov: is there an api for # of unconfirmed txs anywhere?
jurov: ironically, im certain the bitcoind on my machine knows that.. but getting the number out of it...
Namworld: Feeless transactions confirm faste >.>
Namworld: 0.0001 on a large move (120 BTC)
jurov: 0.0001 is too small as i found out myself yest
Bowjob: anyone here using electrum
jurov: yea, in mere 12 hours or so
Namworld: Well that's a lot cheaper than PayPal
jurov: The necessary fee on your tx is well predictable, if anyone minded to analyze the unconfirmed txs statistically
jurov: um... i hear someone asking about bachelor thesis?
mircea_popescu: the day i save on a dime is the day i pack up the harem and retire on mars.
Namworld: I wonder what's up with ZIGGAP
mpexbot: smickles: No new messages received.
Namworld: Yeah, my fees are based on what Armory suggests
Namworld: Sometimes it's 0.0001, sometimes it's 0.0005
jurov: so armory seems to account for that?
Namworld: I think it's mostly based on amount of inputs... but yeah, kind of
Bowjob: isnt it ian bakewell's moment of truth
Namworld: So like 30k USD loss if he pays back
Bowjob: look at this buying power
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.99999, Best ask: 88.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 88.00000, 24 hour volume: 136246.06886715, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.41623
gribble: There are currently 2084.7938 bitcoins offered at or under 92.0 USD, worth 188350.163298 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0017 seconds
gribble: There are currently 8026.3054 bitcoins offered at or under 95.0 USD, worth 746419.333104 USD in total. | Data vintage: 7.7048 seconds
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.50002, Best ask: 87.78000, Bid-ask spread: 0.27998, Last trade: 87.50001, 24 hour volume: 138377.72130273, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.42466
gribble: There are currently 45195.463 bitcoins offered at or under 200.0 USD, worth 5025968.47558 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0038 seconds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14455 @ 0.0006357 = 9.189 BTC [-]
benkay: quite the crash this afternoon, eh gentlemen?
benkay: retrace to seventy five and then flat back one day? two?
benkay: i should start keeping fiat on gox for these events
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C750T] 308 @ 0.15862914 = 48.8578 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.38 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.37000001 = 1.11 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.37 = 1.48 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.35500001 = 0.71 BTC [-]
smickles: heh, bitcoin is good for that every once in a while, gox just makes it worse
benkay: we might have a stable currency except for gox
MJR_III: also...i don't think that the charts are keeping up
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 84.63439, Best ask: 84.80000, Bid-ask spread: 0.16561, Last trade: 84.80000, 24 hour volume: 144582.26393633, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.34194
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 85.20000, Best ask: 85.39000, Bid-ask spread: 0.19000, Last trade: 84.99989, 24 hour volume: 146197.46407703, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.31167
gribble: Error: "ask" is not a valid command.
gribble: There are currently 27577.248 bitcoins offered at or under 100.0 USD, worth 2628721.38478 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0246 seconds
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 15 @ 0.00485 = 0.0728 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.87 BTC [-]
Ukto: mpex has pages? :P *nudges Mircea*
Ukto: btw smickles: BF has topped 2,300 BTC 24hr vol :)
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 20 @ 0.877895 = 17.5579 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0006 / 0.00062205 / 0.00066676 (168732 shares, 104.96 BTC), 7D: 0.0006 / 0.00066192 / 0.00072101 (1713863 shares, 1,134.45 BTC), 30D: 0.0006 / 0.00073488 / 0.00078628 (16836028 shares, 12,372.51 BTC)
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 86.50000, Best ask: 86.87137, Bid-ask spread: 0.37137, Last trade: 86.87137, 24 hour volume: 153284.13060894, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.23528
kakobrekla: many reasons, dont have the time to get into that again
kakobrekla: in short, they are slow, the steal via fees since ever, tiny amouts but still and is run by kids with css skills, also trading interface is fcuked, you need 3 or 4 tabs - have fun
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00066676 = 3.1338 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00067292 = 3.3646 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1250 @ 0.00067438 = 0.843 BTC [+]
gribble: (buy [--long] <amount> <thing> [at|@] <priceperunit> <otherthing> [<notes>]) -- Logs a buy order for <amount> units of <thing>, at a price of <price> per unit, in units of <otherthing>. Use the optional <notes> field to put in any special notes. <price> may include an arithmetical expression, and {mtgox(ask|bid|last)} to index price to mtgox ask, bid, or last price. May also include (1 more message)
gribble: Error: "24hprc" is not a valid command.
gribble: Error: "24h,prc" is not a valid command.
gribble: Error: "24hrpc" is not a valid command.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.84 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.87968 = 8.7968 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.73000, Best ask: 87.75000, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 87.73000, 24 hour volume: 155699.24992401, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.21684
gribble: The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation:
http://gribble.sourceforge.net/ gribble: There are currently 24555.229 bitcoins offered at or under 100.0 USD, worth 2358207.51086 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0027 seconds
gribble: There are currently 21738.811 bitcoins offered at or under 99.9 USD, worth 2076585.24429 USD in total. | Data vintage: 35.6864 seconds
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 90.00000, Best ask: 90.04900, Bid-ask spread: 0.04900, Last trade: 90.00000, 24 hour volume: 155899.94157540, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.21739
MJR_III: well...say goodbye to another bunch of weak hands i guess
copumpkin: and it's not as if it's "disabled"
copumpkin: it's just that it isn't very prevalent
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.87 BTC [-]
MJR_III: yes...you can short right now
MJR_III: fucking bullshit though...minutes of lag
MJR_III: why don't we just mail our orders to gox
MJR_III: also...bitfloor has not had these issues...they didn't have a huge dropoff and they have maintained the price...mt gox injects a ton of uncertainty into the market with their horrible matching engine
MJR_III: all you need is to borrow bitcoins
copumpkin: you short by finding someone to lend you coins
MJR_III: um...since they connect to gox
copumpkin: it's not like shares that are much harder to borrow
MJR_III: well...you have access to the liquidity
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15909 @ 0.00066793 = 10.6261 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1344 @ 0.00067438 = 0.9064 BTC [+]
MJR_III: were you going to short for a year?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.84 = 3.36 BTC [-]
MJR_III: hint: if you are shorting, you expect price to go down
MJR_III: yeah...you are totally right tiberiusiv i can't make money selling at 97 and covering at 80
MJR_III: oh...but if THEY RISE IN VALUE YOU ARE A dumbass to short
MJR_III: if I think they go up i get long
MJR_III: if i think they go down, i short
MJR_III: meaning you are paying LOWER rates of interest if you are right
MJR_III: and i just showed it to you
MJR_III: let me walk you through the scenario
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: it's not currently deflationary
copumpkin: omg stocks are deflationary right now
MJR_III: it would cost me .03 bitcoins
MJR_III: i had to spend $2 in order to short
MJR_III: how could i ever make that back
copumpkin: this is an awesome conversation to watch
MJR_III: you have to pay 2 dollars in interest
MJR_III: you made 1200 in my scenario
MJR_III: i don't think you understand how apy works
MJR_III: you are paying a tiny tiny rate of interest
MJR_III: if i expect it to stay where it is
MJR_III: i don't think you understand how speculation works
copumpkin: MJR_III: it takes a speculum, right?
MJR_III: another epic troll by tiberiusiv
MJR_III: then went long and rode it back up
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: how do you expect to short then, when risk for the lender is so high? should lending not exist at all?
MJR_III: there aren't 21 million bitcoins yet
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: that's an argument against any interest rate you pick
MJR_III: so you are trying to borrow an impossible amount of money
MJR_III: lets say i want to borrow 100 quintillion dollars
MJR_III: how would i service that debt?
copumpkin: in other news, if you borrow all the money in the world, things might go strangely
MJR_III: tiberiusiv: but only for principal
MJR_III: no money is created for interest
MJR_III: this is fractional reserve lending 101
MJR_III: you cannot always obtain dollars
MJR_III: a limited number of dollars
MJR_III: it is lower than the total amount owed
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: where did you learn about this stuff, out of curiosity?
MJR_III: copumpkin: where did he NOT learn about this?
MJR_III: ok...but a lot of people don't seem to want to lend their bitcoins
MJR_III: that is the markets desire for interest on btc
copumpkin: lending rates historically have been way higher in bitcoin
MJR_III: look at BTC Lending offers
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: and how do you propose that happen, as I asked before?
copumpkin: there's still large risk for the lender
MJR_III: if you look at the site we are talking about...you will see that bitcoin lending and dollar lending is a market like any other
MJR_III: the current VARIABLE rate is 9.5%
MJR_III: ok...you said it is 12 and has always been 12
MJR_III: ok...i want to short all the aapl shares in the world
MJR_III: there is a concept of hard to borrow
MJR_III: i need to "locate" the shares before i can sell short
MJR_III: i don't think you understand how the free market works
MJR_III: you can lend coins for as much as you can get
MJR_III: no one has defaulted on bitfinex
copumpkin: I HAVE AN EXPLANATION FOR WHY, SO THAT IS THE EXPLANATION
MJR_III: do you understand what a margin call is?
MJR_III: first, you can see it yourself
MJR_III: well...no one is taking whats out there
MJR_III: so it seems to be more than enough
MJR_III: well...that is probably because you'd have to be stupid to short
copumpkin: you can still approach me and say "hey copumpkin, can I borrow some coins?"
MJR_III: pray tell how did you obtain this info?
MJR_III: put your money where your mouth is
MJR_III: and go to bitfinex and take out the short
MJR_III: you can short 2500 RIGHT NOW
MJR_III: if you put up 500 or so coins
MJR_III: you can lock in fixed rates
MJR_III: have you ever even seen bitfinex's site
MJR_III: but you aren't paying in dollars
MJR_III: you are paying in bitcoins
MJR_III: if the price doubles the INTEREST is the last of your worries
MJR_III: you will get stopped out if it goes up by 20%
copumpkin: have you heard of daily settlement?
MJR_III: copumpkin: i'm just gonna mute...its obvious he has no idea what he's talking about
copumpkin: you can tell yourself that to make yourself feel better about not having any real arguments
MJR_III: copumpkin: he has been at this game for a week now
MJR_III: just trollling bitcoin-assets
MJR_III: i ignored him on my phone's irc client
MJR_III: but forgot to do it on MiRc
copumpkin: I conveniently own a slice of MPOE!
MJR_III: so i got sucked into yet another stupid conversation with an idiot
bgupta: MJR_III not to interupt this retardedness, but what are the requirements to borrow at 12%? IE: How do they know you won't abscond with the coins?
MJR_III: copumpkin: are you involved with iphone jailbreaking?
MJR_III: bgupta: you cannot default
MJR_III: you cannot withdraw from it
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: I can't remember now, it was ages ago
MJR_III: you can only trade with it
MJR_III: if you lose what you have in the bank
copumpkin: I think I got a little over 100k shares for 5 or 10 btc?
bgupta: Ah so you have to use it to short in their trading system.. you can't borrow it for other reasons.
MJR_III: they liquidate your position
MJR_III: similar to most prop trading firms
smickles: tiberiusiv: you could get upwards of 10kbtc margin on mpex, iirc. but that's a scam. amirite :D
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: it's logged on MP's blog somewhere, if you look far enough back
bgupta: I don't trade currencies so not for me.
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: you know that someone who disagrees with you isn't automatically poor or stupid
MJR_III: copumpkin: he doesn't know that
copumpkin: people can just disagree without it devolving into elementary school playground
copumpkin: you've said I'm poor because I disagree with you
bgupta: tiber is now on my ignore list.
MJR_III: the main problem with tiberiusiv is that he doesn't just shut up and short bitcoins, if he is so bearish...then put your money where your mouth is and go short
MJR_III: i hope everyone ignores him eventually
bgupta: I mean literally I can't see what he is typing.
MJR_III: mostly just because i have no interest in listening to his idiocy, but i still have to see the other half of the convo
copumpkin: the most annoying thing about /ignore is that people keep talking about how they can't see what someone is typing :P
MJR_III: but it makes for strange half convos
copumpkin: MJR_III: he's ignored you. Your messages don't get through to him (if you haven't used IRC much before)
MJR_III: where you are like "huh? what are you guys talking about"
MJR_III: copumpkin: where you telling tiberiusiv?
smickles: bitfinx is pretty new, that may have to do with their size
MJR_III: yeah not huge...but they pass through to gox
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: I haven't really seen particular evidence of that, and he's not extrapolating unnecessarily, which are doing
bgupta: gonna check it out is it only btc/fiat plays or do they have other stuff there?
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: of him being a child or particularly stupid
MJR_III: i prefer to get margin to go long
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: do you accept that there might be explanations other than high interest rates for that?
MJR_III: high interest, but if you use it for daytrading its manageable
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: or when the borrower is a thief? :)
MJR_III: you basically have a btc wallet and a dollars wallet
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: so everyone's good and the evil lenders force them to steal the money?
copumpkin: by imposing rates that are too high
MJR_III: if you want to buy and sell bitcoins (withdraw etc) you can use the exchange portion...if you want to trade on margin, there is that portion
MJR_III: and if you would rather just lend out dollars or bitcoins...you can do that too
copumpkin: do I sense a religious undertone to that judgment?
smickles: hmmm, i don't think any of the loans i've made > 100btc in value have defaulted
copumpkin: opinions are like assholes, they say
MJR_III: copumpkin: you are making me think of unignoring him...but i have to be like ulysses and ignore the siren song of trolling
bgupta: what exchage do the trades get settled?
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: you seem intent on preaching a lot and listening very little
bgupta: Guessing MtGox? needs to kinda be mtgox to impact the market no?
MJR_III: bgupta: you can basically go to gox or bfx
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: I'll let you do that without unnecessary distractions of people trying to talk to you
MJR_III: but, you can also go to bitfinex's own book
MJR_III: which is a lot cheaper from a fee perspective
smickles: bgupta: actually, this recent fun was started by a 700 btc sale on btce
smickles: took 5 min or so for the traders on gox to even start to react
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: I know the default rates are high
gribble: Time since last block: 17 minutes and 0 seconds
bgupta: sure… if you are a an oracle and know which way things will go and aren't trying to influence the market with your trades.
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: I suggest that you approach things a bit more open-mindedly in future though, and don't just write off anyone who disagrees with you as poor, young, stupid, or otherwise unworthy of talking
MJR_III: you can watch other markets to see where general sentiment is going
MJR_III: if you could move money instantly, you could arb bitfloor and btc-e all day
MJR_III: the good part of selling on bitfloor is that you can get a liquidity rebate
copumpkin: MJR_III: if you could move money instantly, there would be very little to arb in the first place
MJR_III: copumpkin: i meant if you singular could do that...not you as in everyone
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: credit regulations might apply?
MJR_III: for example if you had a relationship between those two exchanges...all arb would go away as they both equalize
copumpkin: I haven't looked into the regulations surrounding issuing credit for short selling
copumpkin: yes, but do you know that they havne't had to deal with that shit?
MJR_III: copumpkin: has he gotten onto the regulatory dead horse now?
gribble: Time since last block: 1 minute and 59 seconds
MJR_III: copumpkin: you didn't answer though, are you the iphone jailbreaker?
MJR_III: i wish cydia would take btc
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: how do you know they don't realize this?
copumpkin: maybe he'll be more amenable to it now
smickles: tiberiusiv: what do you think of the futures offerd by icbit?
MJR_III: but wasn't sure, but i've been a big fan of your work for a long time
MJR_III: well the whole devteam really
Chaang-Noi: since sell off to 75, what was that a 50,000 coin market order?
copumpkin: haven't done anything related to it in years though, really
MJR_III: but i definitely recognize that handle
copumpkin: I think last real iphone work I did was 2009/10?
MJR_III: i jailbroke the first iphone on 1.0x
gribble: There are currently 9039.4257 bitcoins offered at or under 95.0 USD, worth 849457.810281 USD in total. | Data vintage: 236.5691 seconds
MJR_III: never did any dev stuff there
MJR_III: but we still had to worry about "bricking" and manually creating symlinks
copumpkin: Chaang-Noi: tell tiberiusiv how much money we lost!
smickles: Chaang-Noi: the ice melted around your champagne, didn't it?
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: see, Chaang-Noi is a goat, and he's epic baller
MJR_III: how long you been in btcland copumpkin?
copumpkin: MJR_III: couple of years now, on and off
MJR_III: yeah i started playing around with it back in 11...trying to do an fpga miner
MJR_III: but got distracted and didn't come back till this january
smickles: i may be poor, but i think i've gone into the next tax bracket
smickles: too much short term capital gains
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 5 @ 0.1076 = 0.538 BTC [+]
copumpkin: smickles: omg you entered the 15% rate bracket?
MJR_III: smickles: you in US? will you declare it?
copumpkin: I disagreed with tiberiusiv so I'm clearly in the 10% bracket
MJR_III: that is how the tax code works
MJR_III: our wealth is determined by our level of agreement with tiberiusiv
smickles: MJR_III: well, i declared some last year, and i've already bought some things with it this yeear, so yeah, i think i'll declare it
MJR_III: smickles: this is US taxes right?
MJR_III: wonder how they will handle it up in canada
MJR_III: do they have capital gains and such? wonder if cavirtex will report
Bowjob: bitcoin will reach 100
Chaang-Noi: smickles yeah, a bit sad, what was the vol on that sale?
smickles: tiberiusiv: some is capital gains, some is income
copumpkin: it really makes a huge difference that those $1700 are taxed not at 33%, not at 39.6%, but at 35% exactly
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: (smickles is an accountant)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3000 @ 0.00389736 = 11.6921 BTC [-]
smickles: this'll be the first year i have to pay fed. income tax, unless i'm mistaken
KRS1: tiberiusiv: you don't seem like you know what you are talking about when you say majority of Americans don't pay income taxes.
KRS1: Many do not have a choice, it comes out of their paychecks.
smickles: i think a lot do, but they don't have to
KRS1: Thats right, for overpayments.
smickles: KRS1: tiberiusiv wouldn't count an interest free, manditory loan as a tax
KRS1: smickles, this im wasting my time aren't I
copumpkin: so even those that don't pay income tax pay payroll tax
MJR_III: KRS1: come join on us on the ignoring tiberiusiv side, its really great
KRS1: <- off to do something productive
MJR_III: smickles: even if you are poor...they still take it out and you have to file to get it back right?
smickles: oh, ya know, i have like 30k carry-over from my rental property. I'm not going to pay fed. income tax unless i do a lot better
MJR_III: the funniest thing, and this is a testament to the average americans intelligence regarding finance, is that people get excited when they get their own money back
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: "case in point" is the idiom
Chaang-Noi: anyone one know the volume on the sale to 75 off hand? thanks
gribble: There are currently 0 bitcoins offered at or under 75.0 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0019 seconds
Chaang-Noi: i mean the one last night, the huge harket sell order
smickles: Chaang-Noi: it started with a one-off 700 btc on btce
MJR_III: i literally don't even know why someone would do that
gribble: There are currently 43668.029 bitcoins demanded at or over 75.0 USD, worth 3431186.42875 USD in total. | Data vintage: 45.9326 seconds
smickles: Chaang-Noi: yeah, gox traders didn't even react for 5 min or so
MJR_III: copumpkin: do the iphone guys use freenode?
Chaang-Noi: last night i bet it was thicker than what it is now, that is a massive sell off
Diablo-D3: I wish BTC would get to $1000 already
MJR_III: Diablo-D3: yep...i can't wait
Diablo-D3: I just need enough money to start DMC
copumpkin: you sure you wouldn't prefer over 8000!?!?!?!?
smickles: the laptop i bought with btc at the begining of this week is named "btc9001"
MJR_III: i mostly think that it is necessary for the price to get to that level so we can start doing real institutional stuff
Diablo-D3: and its clear copumpkin is a fan of the source material
MJR_III: gonna be a huge space available for investment bank/underwriting, handling IPO's etc
Diablo-D3: MJR_III: yeah, but Im looking for over $200m.
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: what do you do when you're not arguing on IRC?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.92 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3 @ 0.00485 = 0.0146 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.3519 = 0.7038 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.005 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 49 @ 0.00506 = 0.2479 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 78 @ 0.005065 = 0.3951 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 79 @ 0.005075 = 0.4009 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 475 @ 0.00508 = 2.413 BTC [+]
MJR_III: smickles: it's kind of hard to do some financial analysis of sdice right now right? we don't have a full year of data...
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.849998 = 3.4 BTC [+]
MJR_III: would like to come up with a realistic valuation
copumpkin: did you guys know that there's a million-dollar-an-hour club?
copumpkin: (of high earners, to put it lightly)
smickles: MJR_III: i'm sure you could get a good idea from the data out there now. the main thing would be wether or not there will come some outside influence on their operations
copumpkin: but there are HF managers who have made that much on good years, if you assume 40-hour work weeks and the like
MJR_III: record for HF is 4 billion one year
MJR_III: for the hedge fund manager
copumpkin: MJR_III: I think paulson made 4.8 one year
MJR_III: but it is a common saying among those guys that they wouldn't roll out of bed for what lloyd blankfein makes
MJR_III: but the average hedge fund manager makes ONLY 375k
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.47 = 1.88 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.47 = 1.88 BTC [+]
MJR_III: i was reading an article about hedge fund guys, and that was the cautionary tale
MJR_III: i know you guys think you will get rich but be aware most people only make slightly under 400k a year
MJR_III: i'm like...oh in that case nevermind
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.478 = 0.956 BTC [+]
MJR_III: mircea_popescu: no it isn't
MJR_III: it was entertaining for a little while, but i am hoping that we can move past the tiberiusiv era
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.849998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.479 = 0.958 BTC [+]
MJR_III: his latest argument was that it is too expensive to short bitcoins because if they go up your interest rate is huge
copumpkin: MJR_III: and most people at HFs aren't the "managers" as people call them
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.849998 = 4.25 BTC [+]
MJR_III: copumpkin: my friend is a quant for one
MJR_III: most of the hedge funds are quite small
mircea_popescu: MJR_III he had me yesterday, when he was explaining that he can't short mpoe because he doesn;t own all the money in the world
MJR_III: couple qualitatives, couple quants...and a manager
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: he tried that on us too
mircea_popescu: but failed to understand how this undermines his argument as to mpoe being weak.
mircea_popescu: sorta like... you need all the money in the world to push over this here rotten reed.
MJR_III: i told him i couldn't borrow a quintillion dollars either
MJR_III: any new money created through debt does not create enough for the interest on the debt
MJR_III: and yet the world keeps on turning
mircea_popescu: bitcoin failed to cross 100, mpoe contracrt volume failed to cross 1/2 mn
MJR_III: what was the total volume mircea_popescu
smickles: MJR_III: he typically keeps a tight lip on that topic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00066065 = 3.039 BTC [-]
smickles: Bugpowder, iirc, seems to think no dividend, mpbor boned
MJR_III: almost tripled my position
MJR_III: why did my trade not hit assbot?
copumpkin: I wonder how much is in my mpex account right now
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: what'd it start at again?
smickles: copumpkin: i have a gui interface to mpex now :)
copumpkin: so I've made decent money off of my investment
mircea_popescu: well actually 0.00009 1st block (1mn) then 2nd block 0.000025 or so
Namworld: [23:06] <mircea_popescu> yeh teh tradition is that no comment
Namworld: Otherwise it would impact derivates trading if people could know upfront
mircea_popescu: this is so disconnecty for me. on one hand there's this endless stream of "o, mpoe, scam, nobody uses it, wtfbbq"
mircea_popescu: on the other everyone seems to have shares, i'm like...
smickles: copumpkin: that link was for you
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: still made good money off of it
Namworld: forum people are angry of having to either pay fees to a broker or pay a high fee to trade directly on the exchange.
copumpkin: cause I'm too lazy to place an order through the system :P
Namworld: Or just angry at your personality/the other business you run
smickles: copumpkin: smickles.com/mpex-gui/
Namworld: or even MPOE-PR being a loudmouth
copumpkin: smickles: cute! still too lazy though :(
Namworld: Ah yes, many just don't like mircea.
MJR_III: what other business do you run mircea_popescu
copumpkin: people dislike mircea_popescu because his penis is too big
MJR_III: who gives a fuck how they feel...the exchange speaks for itself
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: did you go by another nick in the past?
copumpkin: who spoke about mircea_popescu in exactly the same terms
copumpkin: I can't remember what his nick was
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: "gypsy scum" is the truth?
smickles: i thought he just whipped the women
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: so are the admins of reddit also gypsy scum?
MJR_III: yeah, the whole bdsm article confused me a little
copumpkin: it must be great seeing everything in perfect black and white
smickles: 'internet people' and 'real capital'
MJR_III: i think "simple" sums him up perfectly
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.40999998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.40999998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.40999999 = 0.82 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.41099999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.41099999 = 2.055 BTC [+]
MJR_III: the + means they took the ask right?
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 77 @ 0.00508 = 0.3912 BTC [+]
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: why are you actively set against him, instead of just neutral, then?
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 98 @ 0.0055 = 0.539 BTC [+]
MJR_III: tiberiusiv is like atheists who devote all of their time to arguing about things they don't believe in
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: how do you know he's a fraudster?
smickles: MJR_III: the + means it was traded higher than the last time, not a statement on who was the liquidity taker
MJR_III: agnostics just go on about their business...to be honest most religious people spend less time talking about religion than most atheists on reddit at least
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: he publishes reports monthly, doesn't he?
copumpkin: have you verified mtgox's reports?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.92 BTC [+]
MJR_III: copumpkin: no he is probably just poor/a kid
smickles: copumpkin: well, he would've been, (MT) but he started making too much money
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: but how about MagicalTux?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.445 = 0.89 BTC [+]
copumpkin: isn't that true of every merchant out there?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.479 = 0.958 BTC [+]
copumpkin: he's in romania because he's romanian, I thought
copumpkin: although he did move there after being in the US
copumpkin: most people live in the place they're from, eventually
MJR_III: copumpkin: he will circle back to his first point again at some point and just repeat the cycle
copumpkin: $ grep "<tiberiusiv>" foo.txt | grep "?" | wc -l
copumpkin: $ grep "<tiberiusiv>" foo.txt | wc -l
copumpkin: my log of this channel from the past couple of hours
smickles: just the past couple of hours?
MJR_III: negraneu reminds me of edward norton so i always think of rounders when i see him play
smickles: we must have different greps, that same command gets me 2 and 12
copumpkin: different greps have different syntax
smickles: i don't see what i'm doing wrong with mine D:
smickles: there are different greps, actually :P
copumpkin: they put tastebuds in rectums (recta?) now?
smickles: my log does it like < tiberiusiv>
smickles: copumpkin: i have 1998 vs 20974
copumpkin: smickles: perhaps he's usually more inquisitive than he was tonight
copumpkin: it'd be interesting to run a sliding window average over it
Chaang-Noi: how is that sell off last night going to lower the 24 hour average for all these calls?
copumpkin: and plot the topic of conversation
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: never knew they were spelled that way
Chaang-Noi: that sell off might not have had volume
mircea_popescu: but srsly, i'm looking forward to fresh onion flavoured
Chaang-Noi: you like onions when you go down on a guy? lol are we still talking about flavoured comdoms?
smickles: sour apple should improve performance
Chaang-Noi: i never understood why one would even wont to have a condom on while getting a bj
mircea_popescu: Chaang-Noi some people don't have ALL the venereal disease there is yet.
smickles: i saw some that had some kind of coating, the box said 'for external use only'. wtf is that?
copumpkin: some people put nails through their cocks
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: now you're just trolling; go away
Chaang-Noi: copumpkin just now? lol this troll has been around a while:)
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: please tell me what you have deduced about me
smickles: although i've never been to romainia, tiberiusiv, you're starting to come off more like a bigot as time goes on
Chaang-Noi: smickles the only thin tiberslav said was good about mp was when he burnt the koran
smickles: mircea_popescu: you mised the part when tiberiusiv called copumpkin poor for disagreeing with him
copumpkin: I think we all need report cards, written up by tiberiusiv
smickles: tiberiusiv: actually, i've been to the lower 48, most of norther mexico and most of souther canada
copumpkin: enumerating the things he's deduced about us based on our extensive interactions
mircea_popescu: when finance reared its ugly head copumpkin poorly wrote a check and fled...
smickles: i had to backtrack and go to rhode island, so fucking small i missed it the first time around
copumpkin: but I did propose you asking as a solution to your problem
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: how many are you actually looking for, out of curiosity?
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: I am rich, filled to the brim with mircea_popescu's love
smickles: I almost went to japan once, but decided to go to gencon instead
smickles: tiberiusiv: that is about the extent of my travels, although i'd consider american and canadan indians a seperate culture
mircea_popescu: "She didn't have large breasts, but they were by no means small either."
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only characterisation ever made is "big"
smickles: a canadan tribe almost imprisoned me for going up the wrong creek once
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: anyway, I'm curious what you think about me
copumpkin: tiberiusiv: can you give me any more information?
copumpkin: [23:44:47] <tiberiusiv> copumpkin offered to lend his vast holdings of BTC for short selling
copumpkin: [23:42:54] <tiberiusiv> wouldnt expect any less of a response from an mpex shareholder
copumpkin: based on those comments and others
smickles: tiberiusiv: that's not really my criteria for bigotry, and i don't really favor american political correctness, so far as i can tell
copumpkin: I've gotten into big fights with him before
copumpkin: but I don't think he's dishonest and he's smart
gribble: There are currently 9528.5939 bitcoins offered at or under 95.0 USD, worth 896329.793098 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0020 seconds
gribble: There are currently 26042.659 bitcoins offered at or under 100.0 USD, worth 2515384.40478 USD in total. | Data vintage: 10.7147 seconds
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.475 = 1.9 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.479 = 1.437 BTC [+]
smickles: copumpkin: that one on rg's site?
copumpkin: I guess you aren't as much of a creep as you sounded
copumpkin: apparently I look like a "faggot" in that picture
smickles: ya know, mad7 was my first, .. so far as btc trades go
smickles: i wonder what mad7scientist's opinion of my photo on there is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1500 @ 0.00419992 = 6.2999 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 5450 @ 0.00419993 = 22.8896 BTC [+]
gribble: jurov was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 hours, 9 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <jurov> so armory seems to account for that?
smickles: tiberiusiv: too many bots in this chan, right?
smickles: oh, that must be what sarcasm is
smickles: took me a minute to realize it
Namworld: hmm... RG used to ahve a photobook aight...
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 72 @ 0.0045 = 0.324 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 19 @ 0.0045 = 0.0855 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 32 @ 0.00442 = 0.1414 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 51 @ 0.00442 = 0.2254 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.0044 BTC [-]
MJR_III: you know...mt gox is kinda too big to fail
ThickAsThieves: did i miss anything other than rebounding to 90 and half of a bunch of shitty conversations with tiberius?
MJR_III: ThickAsThieves: pretty much summed up tonight
MJR_III: i couldn't see any of the pictures
smickles: MJR_III: i don't think they're too ig to fail
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: well, your idea of a fight tends to be /ignore
copumpkin: or my perception of you being in a fight with me
smickles: points raised, evidence presented
ThickAsThieves: I ran numbers on my btc portfolio today, it's officially worth 1.5x my yearly salary at my day job.
KRS1: thickasthieves: thats tight
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: hah, my job tries hard to make me unnice!
smickles: that's gotta be a hard job tho
KRS1: not even at the hight of my btc balance did i have enough to hit my yearly salary @$90/btc
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> you're lucky you have a dayjob <---this flew over my head
KRS1: but then again i had a small gpu farm..met the author of Bamt that was kind of cool
MJR_III: i am looking into quitting my job now
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves just general kvetch. "in this economy, you're lucky to have a pickle"
MJR_III: hopefully find something in the bitcoin space
KRS1: have u guys ever heard of BAMT?
ThickAsThieves: i thought you were implying that 1.5x is not good enough, and to stick to it
smickles: i'm not going to stop until i have an estate, some serfs, and a scribe
KRS1: Wouldn't you want minion?
KRS1: Or maybe even some sharks with freaking lasers?
mircea_popescu: inb4 smickles' revised list : " an estate, some serfs, a scribe and an extensive collection of skulls taken from people who discussed my spelling"
smickles: as a future member of the imprisoned aristocracy, i say good day sir
MJR_III: when do the new options hit mpex?
MJR_III: its the 29th here in nyc...
MJR_III: so wouldn't that have been 4 hours ago?
copumpkin: what's wrong with smickles's spelling?
smickles: copumpkin: i do tend to spell somethings incorectly frome time to time.
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.00382 BTC [+]
MJR_III: ah i thought it was midnight of the 29th
smickles: MJR_III: um, well, 23:59:59 on the 29th
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.00382 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 49 @ 0.00383 = 0.1877 BTC [+]
smickles: that's when the Ts expire, the Ns switch over, and new Ns appear
smickles: practically, yes, technically no
smickles: there are actually something like 3 UTCs
MJR_III: has anyone seen or read cosmopolis?
smickles: ut0, ut1, ut1r, ut2, ut2r, utc. utc is practically ut1, but the difference is called dut1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00065791 = 15.0003 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1600 @ 0.00065362 = 1.0458 BTC [-]
MJR_III: are these technical differences?
MJR_III: hold on, i'm off to wikipedia
smickles: MJR_III: "UT1R is a smoothed version of UT1, filtering out periodic variations due to tides. It includes 62 smoothing terms, with periods ranging from 5.6 days to 18.6 years."
smickles: you can look forward to stuff like that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.9199 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.92 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10050 @ 0.00065985 = 6.6315 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00066065 = 1.2552 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.479 = 0.958 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00066265 = 3.3133 BTC [+]
splnkr_: ThickAsThieves: u mean electricity consumption isn't what they'd like, or hashrate isn't what they'd like?
splnkr_: oh so maybe it's like a firmware update they're gonna have to send out or something
ThickAsThieves: cant figure out when they are saying theyll ship these
splnkr_: wow, sooooo fun reading the news in the form of reverse chronological tweets
splnkr_: good update tho thx ThickAsThieves
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.84998 BTC [-]
arij: so hashing speed is on target
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00067064 = 3.3532 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00067065 = 20.9243 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: "The power is still far less than any other unit, so it's not like it's something crazy or anything, but it's not 1w/GH "
arij: We will ship the purchased hashrate regardless of what it ends up costing us.
arij: ie. ship two singles that do 30gh each
arij: i guess they will have to underclock the chips or something so power isnt to much for the board to handle
arij: i think im order number 2017..
arij: bfl says worstcase is 195w
ThickAsThieves: and BFL was claiming they were gonna get 60Ghs on 60w?!
arij: im cool with it, i just want my unit
ThickAsThieves: he claims they can do 400 units per day once they start
arij: how many singles in a minirig?
arij: im within the first 1000
arij: im pretty sure orders started at 1600
Namworld: Thick: BFL has a much smaller nm chips than Avalon/Asicminer I believe
Namworld: which comes with highly reduced power usage per hashing
arij: not on the first run anyways
arij: possibly in the future
arij: i would expect some compensation though.. if everyone else gets 60w units and i get sent a 195w unit because i ordered early :/
arij: those btc i spent though...
arij: like i said earlier im cool with it all, ill be happy just to get my asic soon
arij: some one did it on the forums.. not sure where that post is though
arij: and im sure some of those orders in between are expired
Chaang-Noi: oh so you mightn ot get in the first batch then
ThickAsThieves: so maybe say 6800 untis shipped in april, which we'll shave it down to 5000 to subract for BFL derpness
Chaang-Noi: TAT that is not how my maths worked out :/
Chaang-Noi: you know they only have 500 chips right?
ThickAsThieves: i assume more wafers have been bumped by next week no?
Chaang-Noi: well maybe they can, but they will run out of chips before long
Chaang-Noi: they dont have the 5000 now, that was the order size
Chaang-Noi: yeah, im not sure when they will get them, but they only ahve 5k now
ThickAsThieves: why are these fucking companies so horrible at communications
arij: wait they have 500 chips on hand or 5000 chips
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21150 @ 0.00067065 = 14.1842 BTC [+]
Chaang-Noi: 5k chips in the first batch is what i thought
Chaang-Noi: and 1 chip is like 3 ghs or someting small
arij: im in that first batch :D
Chaang-Noi: it takes like 20 chips to make the 60 ghs thing
Chaang-Noi: i kinda expect only under #2000 to get filled, if that
Chaang-Noi: i only expect 250 orders to get filled
arij: 250 orders=250 singles?
Chaang-Noi: 250 is an average of 20 chips per order
Chaang-Noi: iknow a guy who ordered 4 of the big ass ones in the first 100 orders
arij: well there is that 1/3 thing to
arij: whats inthe first batch
Chaang-Noi: that might be true, but first batch is 5k
Chaang-Noi: i might be wrong but i understood it to be 5k in the first batch
Chaang-Noi: should have been 6k but they derped and made it 5k
Chaang-Noi: andi heard the bfl staff is taking 105 of first batch to mine with, dont have a cource
arij: way to crush my dreams
arij: each wafer= how many chips?
arij: ill be in the first batch
taub: oh, and back at 92 we are
arij: they cant keep going
taub: well almost it snapped back to 92 after the big downmove
ThickAsThieves: this is when the buying started again the past few days
Chaang-Noi: gave my wife 370 btc today, will be fun to see how she does with them
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6150 @ 0.00067065 = 4.1245 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.849979 = 8.4998 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00067858 = 3.3929 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.13479 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.849979 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.8 = 1.6 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 41 @ 0.009994 = 0.4098 BTC [+]
arij: where can you get 46gh for $10
Chaang-Noi: yeah... but $10,000 for in hand 64 gh/s now ... hmmm
Chaang-Noi: my minds is all over the place, doingto much at one time
Chaang-Noi: at current difficulty i would break even at 1 month
Chaang-Noi: at 10x that difficutly it would take 10 months
arij: in hand.. like right now?
arij: its either 30gh/s or 60gh/s then
Chaang-Noi: they have like the 15th order and its a big one
arij: it could work.. kind of risky imo
arij: the diff is going to go up fast i think
Chaang-Noi: think the average will be up 1000% or less in the next 10 months?
Chaang-Noi: yeah, im going to buy but im not going all in :)
arij: maybe i can get in on it?.. can you make it happen ;)
Chaang-Noi: im buying the olny slot for sale, sorry man
Chaang-Noi: its an old guy who needs cash now so has to sell it
Chaang-Noi: not old, i mean one of the first guys who ordered like a year ago
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 90.96000, Best ask: 91.50000, Bid-ask spread: 0.54000, Last trade: 90.96000, 24 hour volume: 158643.07292808, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 95.70000, 24 hour vwap: 87.24783
Chaang-Noi: toffoo where are they traded if not butfunder?
toffoo: not traded at the moment, like gigavps .. old GLBSE holdover
toffoo: looking to get long hash bonds right before the difficulty spike?!?
Chaang-Noi: thanks for reminding me before i did something stupid
Chaang-Noi: but even so, at the right price, its good
Chaang-Noi: bought my wife a nice blue saphire ring cuz btc went ovber the 1 billion mark yesterday:)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4050 @ 0.00067858 = 2.7482 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00066551 = 12.3785 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10089 @ 0.00066265 = 6.6855 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1373 @ 0.00375993 = 5.1624 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Any money held for you in an account with Santander UK plc will be held in its capacity as a bank and not as a trustee. In accordance with FSA requirements we areobliged to notify you that the client money rules on money do notapply to a Banking Consolidation Directive (BCD) in relation to deposits within the meaning of the BCD held by that institution. As a result, the money will not be held within the client money r
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 16 @ 0.004 = 0.064 BTC [-]
Namworld: ok... this whole thing is getting ridiculous...
ThickAsThieves: a little over my head, out of my country, but are they simply saying "fyi, your money ain't really safe"
ThickAsThieves: i thought it was a neat idea, but didnt really follow the details at all
mircea_popescu: i thought it was pretty much a sensible move, back then
ThickAsThieves: what would happen if bitcoin really became a MAJOR safe haven for money in a short time, and then somehow, all bitcoins disappeared and/or the blockchain became irreparablely corrupted? I guess fiat would skyrocket in value?
mircea_popescu: see, thing is : bitcoin's value was pretty huge compared to fiat (all fiat together)
mircea_popescu: consequently, as fiat's shortcomings become apparent bitcoin's *price* skyrockets.
mircea_popescu: conversely, fiat has absolutely no value. consequently, as bitcoin's shortcomings bercome apparent there's nothing pushing the price up.
mircea_popescu: obviously if you stick to valuing things in bitcoin they'll increase apparently, but only because bitcoin itself is going down
ThickAsThieves: and if bitcoin disappeared and zapped billions in $ away?
mircea_popescu: people like me, who are currently productively employed, would jsut go fuck this and retire to private life
mircea_popescu: on the net this'll make for some sexually satisfied women and a general slowdown of economic activity.
mircea_popescu: it's like the chickens on the conveyor belt telling the chickens attempting to escape that "they can't"
mircea_popescu: and then going nya nya. dude... you're STILL on the conveyor belt
ThickAsThieves: it's an interesting notion if you think of bitcoin as an ultimate anarchistic plot to reset the economy
mircea_popescu: i mean... this makes for good action flicks, because a rule of storytelling is to concentrate attention
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1074 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: people do love the fantasy of living in post-apocalyptic situations
mircea_popescu: if they indeed wanted to do it tho, they'd have went to haiti after the quake
Namworld: Well after a month of good trades, it's time for me to go. I'll be retiring for the weekend to visit family as well as friends.
mircea_popescu: look at people like tiberiusiv, ranting about how bad the world is. there's about one million towns on the globe nobody's heard of
mircea_popescu: i met a few when i was doing that myself, so it's certainly not "nobody"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1163 @ 0.00067486 = 0.7849 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28814 @ 0.00066629 = 19.1985 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.848 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00411 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 20 @ 0.0041 = 0.082 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 84 @ 0.00405 = 0.3402 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 25 @ 0.004 = 0.1 BTC [-]
jurov: Chaang-Noi: wat? you expect second round?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00067582 = 5.4741 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.97000, Best ask: 89.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 89.00000, 24 hour volume: 150244.81237909, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.99000, 24 hour vwap: 86.73526
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7383 @ 0.00066629 = 4.9192 BTC [-]
Chaang-Noi: jurov i think some day traders are getting out of it for the long weekend
Chaang-Noi: i kinda expect next tuesday to smash the 100 assuming we dont massivly correct before then
gribble: Current Blocks: 228588 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 1235 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 19 hours, 45 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7174798.69072 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.1533
mircea_popescu: so basically you expect it to go up unless it goes down ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.847 BTC [-]
jurov: it also depends how many unexercised mpoe calls are there..having potential to flood market with cash
jurov: haha now i seriously consider to pay deprived to make me such analysis
Chaang-Noi: mp i kind think it will go up after it goes down, as long as the down is not too far down
jurov: oh noes, tibby. getting afk to prevent another wasted afternoon xD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.00067582 = 2.6357 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: truth of the matter is nobody has a fucking clue where we're headed.
Chaang-Noi: yeah, i said i was guessing, just what my gut tells me what will happen :/
Chaang-Noi: it is more often than not correct (assuming im not trading)
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.81000, Best ask: 89.70000, Bid-ask spread: 0.89000, Last trade: 89.80000, 24 hour volume: 154276.06858765, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.99000, 24 hour vwap: 86.73206
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0006 / 0.00065732 / 0.00068166 (466403 shares, 306.58 BTC), 7D: 0.0006 / 0.00066258 / 0.00071369 (2014556 shares, 1,334.81 BTC), 30D: 0.0006 / 0.00073358 / 0.00078628 (17129444 shares, 12,565.98 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00067705 = 4.4347 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16299 @ 0.00066629 = 10.8599 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00066291 = 3.5134 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5370 @ 0.00066265 = 3.5584 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0075 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.90001, Best ask: 88.91605, Bid-ask spread: 0.01604, Last trade: 88.90001, 24 hour volume: 154552.79615475, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.99000, 24 hour vwap: 86.73328
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.80000000 / 1.88799 / 1.92000000 (10 shares, 18.87990000 BTC), 7D: 1.41000000 / 1.72409607 / 2.00000000 (178 shares, 306.88910091 BTC), 30D: 1.40000000 / 1.86591584 / 17.25000000 (704 shares, 1313.60475269 BTC)
gribble: smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 36 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <smickles> you can look forward to stuff like that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.4599999 = 4.6 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 4098 @ 0.00419993 = 17.2113 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1202 @ 0.00419995 = 5.0483 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i guess it's difficult to figure out what's important as a journalist.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.8 = 8 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.795 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 14 @ 0.19997 = 2.7996 BTC [+]
jcpham: just say no to rape mircea_popescu
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 50 @ 0.2 = 10 BTC [+]
Chaang-Noi: nachos not hot enough, beer not cold enough.. grr
mircea_popescu: this is like, romania's #1 (and pretty much only) rap band
mircea_popescu: in other words, i recall them since they were wee famished tykes.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 89.70000, Best ask: 90.20000, Bid-ask spread: 0.50000, Last trade: 89.70000, 24 hour volume: 155011.66271357, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.99000, 24 hour vwap: 86.70834
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18939 @ 0.00068158 = 12.9084 BTC [+]
jcpham: i knew mircea_popescu had a gangster phase
assbot: Last trade for VTX on HAVELOCK was at 0.479 BTC [+]
assbot: Last trade for S.DICE on MPEX was at 0.00419995 BTC [+]
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX]) -- Return pretty-printed mtgox ticker. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure that the three letter code you enter is a valid (1 more message)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.459999 = 4.6 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00375993 / 0.00408901 / 0.00419995 (19973 shares, 81.67 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.00338263 / 0.0045 (663485 shares, 2,244.33 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00454143 / 0.0063799 (1701047 shares, 7,725.20 BTC)
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.02000, Best ask: 88.89000, Bid-ask spread: 0.87000, Last trade: 88.00800, 24 hour volume: 156726.97399353, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.99000, 24 hour vwap: 86.66077
ThickAsThieves: it's like something out of cartoon, fat spoiled boy leader wants to fight
OneMiner: I don't think it's going to happen. It's just too stupid for reality.
OneMiner: But even the, it's not stupidity we are talking about. That would fall under madness.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.465 = 0.93 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: ignorance, inexperience, bravado, what have you, the boy will seek a spanking
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 9 @ 0.09055 = 0.815 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 1 @ 0.09 BTC [-]
OneMiner: It could be a good fight if it happened. That ruling family seems to be worse than all that BS in Iraq.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.20001, Best ask: 88.60228, Bid-ask spread: 0.40227, Last trade: 88.60228, 24 hour volume: 156712.79134942, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.99000, 24 hour vwap: 86.64491
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0006 / 0.00065885 / 0.00068166 (518861 shares, 341.85 BTC), 7D: 0.0006 / 0.00066283 / 0.00071369 (2067014 shares, 1,370.08 BTC), 30D: 0.0006 / 0.0007334 / 0.00078628 (17181902 shares, 12,601.26 BTC)
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.78 = 2.34 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: no, falklands really is too stupid for reality
OneMiner: That was a supprise attack. They thought they had time. They could have walked back or negotiated. But Brittish attack craft had longer range than they thought.
mircea_popescu: the brits nearly got sunk as a 1st world military power, are you kidding me ?
OneMiner: Everybody knows that the US will bomb the poop out of just about anybody. Also the US is allied with like, half the world.
Chaang-Noi: i guess maybe by european standards :/
Diablo-D3: did he just say england is a first world country?
Diablo-D3: that aint no dare first world country
OneMiner: The Germans do *everything* better. j/k
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 7232519.52401 based on data since last change | 7654236.09946 based on data for last three days
OneMiner: Diablo-D3 drinks only distilled water, or rainwater, and only pure-grain alcohol.
mircea_popescu: bfl's "your good friend tom with blood sweat and tears" moment ?
OneMiner: That looks like it's up for me.
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 5 @ 0.369999 = 1.85 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "If you'd rather have your units shipped regardless of increased power usage, we will still guarantee your hashrate by shipping you however many units are required to achieve your purchased hashrate."
OneMiner: Ya, sounds like their chips are crap compared to their claims.
mircea_popescu: now they have to throtle units... and yet they can still deliver the same hash ?
mircea_popescu: you order 100 cows from me. i discover the cows i have only carry one teat
mircea_popescu: but i tell you if you want 400 teats with your 100 cows i'll send you 400 cows
OneMiner: No, they are saying that they get worse H/j now and you can wait for the claimed H/j revised unit.
mircea_popescu: OneMiner but they ALSO say that if you want delivery now they will deliver your hash
OneMiner: At a higher power consumption per hash. Yes, that's how I read it too.
Diablo-D3: sell intentionally throttled units
Diablo-D3: and then keep selling the same units over and over
Diablo-D3: just changing the firmware out with one that clocks it higher
gwillen: mircea_popescu: I don't understand your question
gwillen: mircea_popescu: they are manufacturing them
bugpowderr: They reduce the number of chips per unit
gwillen: mircea_popescu: they didn't like, manufacture 1000 and then stop
gwillen: mircea_popescu: they will be forced to manufacture more units than they thought
OneMiner: It's not a money maker. They send more units to fill one order. They screwed up the chips or the board.
mircea_popescu: if we go with the theory that they're not just halucianting the entire episode.
bugpowderr: I imagine the chips are the limiting factor
gwillen: mircea_popescu: they do not currently have anywhere near the number of chips required to fulfill all preorders
gwillen: mircea_popescu: they are still making more
gwillen: mircea_popescu: this just means they will fulfill fewer than we thought
Chaang-Noi: even though i now have bought a bfl 60 ghs i think this mess is lulz
gwillen: mircea_popescu: errr, with the fucktons and fucktons of preorder money?
mircea_popescu: either i'm the only one with a calculator on my os or else wtf is going on here.
OneMiner: mircea_popescu People sent them (and are still sending them) bajillions of bitcoins. If they kept any that's where the money comes from.
gwillen: mircea_popescu: I don't know what you're calculating from
Chaang-Noi: getting one of the first shipped, even at 40 ghs will still be hella good
mircea_popescu: OneMiner my intel says people sent them a lot of btc back when, and that people have not been sending more
gwillen: mircea_popescu: unless you have inside knowledge about BFL's costs that you should share with the rest of us
mircea_popescu: and moreover that people have on the net been cancelling
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.70001, Best ask: 88.97000, Bid-ask spread: 0.26999, Last trade: 88.99000, 24 hour volume: 156606.63389529, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.75000, 24 hour vwap: 86.60949
mircea_popescu: from whatever i can foggily remember about managing ops, if you start a project to do X and you do X/2
OneMiner: mircea_popescu Hence their scramble I guess. But they made the chips one way or the other so the large initial expense is done with. It will likely cost them less to produce a revised board.
gwillen: mircea_popescu: ok, show us your math that says they already spent all the money, then
mircea_popescu: you can't just go "we're doing X item with Y resources"
mircea_popescu: gwillen more importantly than the money, they will have to get people to pre-order 2nd batch units
mircea_popescu: much like everyone else i guess, but anyway, still pretty fucking fraudulent.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 4 @ 1.81 = 7.24 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: get people to put up equity (which you call pre-orders) to deliver benefits to ppl who put up equity earlier
gwillen: mircea_popescu: as far as I know they are not dividing anything into batches, they are just taking preorders continuously
mircea_popescu: gwillen this isn't about bfl fantasy-labeling of real world items
gwillen: well, they were talking about an order of like 6 wafers
gwillen: which is nowhere near enough for all the preorders that existed even at the time they said it
gwillen: so clearly there are going to be more
gwillen: fuck if I know how many more they ordered
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 3 @ 1.8 = 5.4 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 4 @ 1.8 = 7.2 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: and of the 5 they're not really getting 100%, and the chips dont work to spec.
mircea_popescu: i can't see a future where they dig themselves out of the hole.
bugpowderr: they tried to assemble the plane from parts after they jumped off the cliff
mircea_popescu: bugpowderr ya but it was a plastic model and they had no glue.
mircea_popescu: i have been using various items on my desk to crack them
mircea_popescu: people keep wandering in concerned to see wtf am i thrashing into the ground
bugpowderr: I am just going to sit tight for a while
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.00701 BTC [-]
bugpowderr: Let those coins season till the next great opportunity comes
bugpowderr: shorting BFL would be wonderful though
OneMiner: The truth of the matter is they ether didn't know what they were talking about or were lying about their time table and now it turns out that the same goes for their chip and board production. They are EITHER (choose one) lying or incompetent.
mircea_popescu: OneMiner im totally seeing a replay of tom's basic here tbh.
OneMiner: Tom's basic? Is Tom the guy that was doing bASIC?
bugpowderr: thank god their are other semi-competent manufacturers. I think bitcoin won't actually be much affected by it
mircea_popescu: bugpowderr i dunno about that. the only ppl to demonstrate asic hashing are both chinese
OneMiner: I see. Ok, I can agree with that then. It's lol if it wasn't so destructive.
mircea_popescu: the only people to demonstrate fuckuppery of incredible level are both american
pgp: dumb question, but with the recent explosion in the network hash rate doesn't being forced to wait for bfl's product make it less valuable by the time you actually recieve it? Or does the rise of USD/BTC from the time of preorder to delivery make up for that? or is it a wash?
bugpowderr: there is a reason APPLE is assembled in china
mircea_popescu: (the german folks recently, the primeasic earlier etc)
bugpowderr: exchange rate could rise in the future
OneMiner: pgp You're on the right track but it's up to you to decide.
bugpowderr: you will never make up for the missing coins from the lost opportunity
pgp: are the allowing people to cancel and are they returning BTC?
mircea_popescu: pgp btc equiv of the fiat value of the btc sent at the time it was sent
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.8 = 4.8 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: in fairness there's plenty of good reason for that, as in, they're supposedly paying ppl in fiat.
gwillen: pgp: if you bought with dollars you weren't otherwise going to use to buy BTC, I think you get pretty much a wash
gwillen: pgp: if you bought with BTC or with dollars you would have put into BTC, I think you lose
gwillen: because the increase in price does not correspond to an increase in USD output, because there's a corresponding increase in difficulty.
bugpowderr: I don't think the puts I bought yesterday are going to make up the difference :)
pgp: any decent resources on the web that discusses GH/s NPV (net present value) and associated variables?
bugpowderr: nice bounce in the price already though
OneMiner: Anybody selling a small amount of ASICMINER?
bugpowderr: by general rule is buy S.MPOE whenever it touches .0006
gwillen: pgp: I'd be interested in seeing such an analysis if you found or made one
Chaang-Noi: im a goat, and im on a motherfucking boat!
mircea_popescu: yah what gwillen said. i gather you're competent enough, go make one pgp
bugpowderr: I think there is a website blog that does a pretty in depth analysis of the various miners
mircea_popescu: anyway, the guy made retarded, miner-biased assumptions
mircea_popescu: people gotta learn somehow that lipsticked pig is not useful
bugpowderr: too many knobs, lets pick a value we like
mircea_popescu: this should be taught in hs. "too many knobs ? always pick a value you can't stand"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2440 @ 0.00419995 = 10.2479 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: i think all the BFL theorizing is based on old numbers. People were saying in BFL shoutbox last night that there are many more than 6 wafers
ThickAsThieves: BFL is claiming they will fix the issue as they start shoipping
ThickAsThieves: so their loss in havbing to send more units to meet obligations,
ThickAsThieves: they claim the problem is not with the chips themselves
Chaang-Noi: what do you think the price of the first 60 ghs to ship would be? if sold on the market?
Chaang-Noi: i did not even know they had an exchange
OneMiner: It's possible they have finalized a small amount of their boards on order. So changes to future boards would be of minimal cost. Like higher quality VRMs or something.
mircea_popescu: O Mercado Bitcoin sofreu um ataque, que infelizmente foi bem sucedido, em sua implementação de redeem code. Devido à um erro de codificação, foi possível ao atacante gerar novos códigos de crédito, sem que o valor fosse devidamente debitado em seu saldo final. Conseguindo assim, gerar um montante falso de bitcoins dentro do sistema e resgatá-lo em tempo hábil, durante a madrugada.
mircea_popescu: that says their redeem codes were broken and leaked equity.
Chaang-Noi: they should have known better than to use codes...
pgp: basic factors would include cost per GH/s for hardware, current network hash rate,growth assumptions in overall network hash rate, cost of electricity, lag time from laying out cash per GH/s and actually getting it working product. And some sort of time value of money discount factor for future cash flows. Am I missing anything?
Chaang-Noi: anyone want to buy the first bfl asic everordered?
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 10 @ 0.009994 = 0.0999 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 4 @ 0.009994 = 0.04 BTC [-]
bugpowderr: I wonder how Teramining is coming along
Ukto: oh, never even heard of them
MJR_III: pgp: also...current btc/usd exchange rate and expected btc/usd exchange rate
MJR_III: i feel like that is what most miners forget about
MJR_III: in their break even calculations
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.00000, Best ask: 88.29000, Bid-ask spread: 0.29000, Last trade: 88.29000, 24 hour volume: 156455.07758322, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.50000, 24 hour vwap: 86.54041
MJR_III: if you are going to mine, you should be bullish on bitcoins i think
MJR_III: mircea_popescu: yeah...or hedge
pgp: I think you start first with a constant BTC USD model...
MJR_III: but if i am calculating my break even using todays prices as most mining calculators do...
MJR_III: then it doesn't appear to be worth it, but if i expected it to hit 100...that could make it profitable
ThickAsThieves: calculating mining profits anything more than 1 week out is voodoo anyway
OneMiner: MJR_III If you are that close to the line then you should probably just buy coins with your hardware and power costs. You'll end up with much more.
MJR_III: but i think most people worry about future difficulty all the time
MJR_III: but don't think of the other side of the coin...which is mining fewer coins is fine if they are each worth more
Chaang-Noi: s+and+Review&p=lotus+car&oid=0cb0ab46c07e25b28f10b5ae7f1d4ff1&fr2=piv-web&fr=sfp&tt=2012%2BLotus%2BExige%2BS%2BSpecs%2Band%2BReview&b=91&ni=114&no=109&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11dgs3a7r&sigb=12uq2h7eh&sigi=126g0sakn&.crumb=S4mQTrSc6lC
MJR_III: CPU mining might be profitable if you have a long enough timeline
Chaang-Noi: that link! anyway, should i get it?> lotus exige s?
MJR_III: obviously it is somewhat speculative
OneMiner: How about an old civic or something, tub it out and take it to the track. Then you just need a tow vehicle. <----- that's my vision except with a miata.
Chaang-Noi: taxes in thailand on cars liek this are no joke like 500% to 700% or more...
Chaang-Noi: i sadly cant get one here, ill have to leave it in the usa
Chaang-Noi: they taxes these cars like crazy, yeah luxury tax
Chaang-Noi: more or less fair as there are no other real taxes
Chaang-Noi: honestly i think i would just move first
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29000 @ 0.00068158 = 19.7658 BTC [+]
OneMiner: Yes, in that case move first. Less complicated.
Chaang-Noi: yeah :/ unless btc goes to 5,000 then im getting 4...
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.23100, Best ask: 89.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.76900, Last trade: 89.00000, 24 hour volume: 156779.61814498, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.50000, 24 hour vwap: 86.53906
bowjob: mhm btc 100 by april 1st
OneMiner: 5k would put me in a sweet spot. I couldn't complain about that.
OneMiner: That's a reset button. School and a living standard bump.
Chaang-Noi: yeah btc at 5k i could do 4 loti in thailand with no problem
MJR_III: josh bft is trying to beat the bitbet date
Chaang-Noi: btc went from 2 to 90 in like a year, or like x45
Chaang-Noi: 90 x 45 is like 4k so like one yearish right?
OneMiner: Ya, the price increase is crazy.
Chaang-Noi: just wait until normal people invest in btc
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.37 BTC [+]
OneMiner: You know what's crazy good news? I think the US money laundering news is great. It's step one to establishing bitcoin in US society.
thestringpuller: I think as old money enters the btc economy, due to lack of regulation people like mircea_popescu will take their money pretty quickly
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 110 @ 0.775 = 85.25 BTC [-]
Chaang-Noi: well gents, tomorrow i gotz to travel so im off to bed, call me if we get close to 100
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.77001 = 2.31 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 29 @ 0.77 = 22.33 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8941 @ 0.00068158 = 6.094 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.76 = 3.8 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.75801 = 7.5801 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 89.48500, Best ask: 89.50000, Bid-ask spread: 0.01500, Last trade: 89.50000, 24 hour volume: 156731.60658333, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.50000, 24 hour vwap: 86.52536
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.758 = 4.548 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.757 = 3.028 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75613 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75612 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.75201 = 4.5121 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.752 = 7.52 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75101 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.751 = 6.008 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 62 @ 0.75 = 46.5 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7991 @ 0.00068158 = 5.4465 BTC [+]
bitesak: known for his asymetric language trend analysis, using the change of language in the postings online to derive forecasts for developing trends
MJR_III: khan academy had a great video on diffie hellman system
bitesak: Save 90 % if paying with real currency such as Bitcoin :)
ThickAsThieves: is there international demand for getting a US high school diploma with online classes?
ThickAsThieves: anf furthermore would bitcoin be a good fit for such a service?
deadweasel: might be hard to understand btc w/out a high school diploma
pgp: question about network difficulty... does it adjust to bring rate back to 1 block per 10 min on current hash rate, or does it try to compensate to bring overall hash rate from last halving day to 1 block evey 10 min?
deadweasel: ThickAsThieves: I didn't catch that. So they might have a diploma from Spain, but want a US one.
ThickAsThieves: US diploma would be accredited and accepted by colleges
Guest4504: Goat from a phone. Lol at technology.
OneMiner: pgp 1 block per 10 min based on rate of block generation during the period.
pgp: so, if we assume a constant increase in hash rate, then halving day, by definition will alway be something short of 4 years...
OneMiner: pgp Yes, if hashrate always goes up then halving day will come sooner by a bit.
pgp: and difficulty adjusts every 2100 blocks, correct?
OneMiner: Hmmm... 2018 or something like that.
jborkl: No, the longest the diff will not adjust is two weeks
jborkl: slowdown in hash rate, it will lower in two weeks- not 2.5 or 3 weeks
OneMiner: It's not based on time. It's based on number of blocks. You sure about that jborkl?
jborkl: I have been through quite a few lower diff levels and it adjusts at two weeks
deadweasel: ThickAsThieves: Credit Repair business is actually a good business to get into in the US. since they legislated against all those "instant credit repair" scams, people can actually get help.
jborkl: If the previous 2016 blocks took more than two weeks to find, the difficulty is reduced
OneMiner: jborkl I think you're reading that wrong.
OneMiner: If the previous 2016 blocks took more than two weeks to find <---- suggests that you'd need all 2016 blocks to be found.
jborkl: if half the network took a shit, then we would drop to one block every 20 minutes and that would last a month
jborkl: killing the network in the meantime
jborkl: it adjusts every two weeks maximum
jborkl: can be shorter of course
OneMiner: Umm.... I don't think so dood. Site it or it didn't happen.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00067944 = 5.4355 BTC [-]
gribble: Error: "14*24*60" is not a valid command.
MJR_III: it readjusts after 2016 blocks
MJR_III: thats why a huge increase in mining power will not really help you mine a ton of blocks
MJR_III: you will just increase the difficulty quicker
MJR_III: The change in difficulty is in proportion to the amount of time over or under two weeks the previous 2016 blocks took to find.
unbalanced: Is anyone using www.bitmit.net ? Is it the eBay of bitcoin or just one of many contenders?
unbalanced: And is it, or are any of them, listed assets? Or soon to be?
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 36 @ 0.2 = 7.2 BTC [+]
unbalanced: I think someone mentioned building an eBay-killer here this week but now I can't remember who/when/what
unbalanced: Ah... so does bitmit not cut it or you just hadn't seen it or still plenty of room for competition I guess?
mircea_popescu: unbalanced basically it's yet another rehash of the old and by now stale "i wrote a script therefore this is a business".
jurov: unbalanced: mircea dreams about it
unbalanced: A lot can change in a month I guess. And people say bitcoin is volatile.
mircea_popescu: imagine if some kid made a html page which read THE REAL AMZON
unbalanced: mircea_popescu: I've read your "recognize you're an idiot, noob" posts re: BTC businesses and 100% agree.
unbalanced: As a guy wondering what my place is in the BTC economy, I take that stuff to heart and try to remember it.
mircea_popescu: this "here's a script that sorta replicates functionality now we wait for "the users" to make us a business" is nonsense
mircea_popescu: that aside : bitcoin desperately needs an ebay killer ap.
mircea_popescu: the only way to obtain such a thing is if someone with a lot of fmcg experience and contacts actually starts one.
unbalanced: So it only sucks because it doesn't have proven profits yet? Once proven to have traction and revenue, it wouldn't meet the noob=sux criteria?
mircea_popescu: i don't care how much profit the doctor's office makes.
mircea_popescu: you can probably make a fuckton selling folk remedies and straight silicone injections into the ass. heck, some people do.
unbalanced: Roger. So Meg Whitman starts an eBay killer using bitcoin, that's when to pay attention.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00067446 = 5.3957 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16610 @ 0.00068158 = 11.321 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 891 @ 0.00068292 = 0.6085 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: some guy who was the near east distribution manager for coca cola since 1992
unbalanced: Right... just not an anonymous site like bitmet. Real-world experience, real-world human face, contact info, support, operational chops, execution...
mircea_popescu: a woman that was in charge of maersk pacific ops for the past five years
MJR_III: i would say that it is not so much even their experience (though that is helpful) but rather the fact that they are good at doing what they set out to do
MJR_III: many executives get fired for sucking
mircea_popescu: and this isn't random dickery as in "you must be old" or some shit. the ops experience shows.
mircea_popescu: there's a lot to business that's not taught in any c++ manual
MJR_III: yes, being a good programmer does not make you a good business manager
MJR_III: though not mutually exclusive
mircea_popescu: i can usually sniff out a half decent manager from a mile away
MJR_III: i think that one of the problems is that the current marketplace loves fuzzy things like "social networking" and pretty websites
MJR_III: but those things do not have the operational challenges of a real business
MJR_III: which is why you see things like BFL and others
mircea_popescu: yeah. they also don't have the chances of a real business.
unbalanced: So... in this case, bitmit.net (they need a better domain at least, I've mistyped it 3 different ways now) apparently has 17029 listings.
mircea_popescu: you have five minutes to find me a way to spend 10 btc on items that i could conceivably use during the remainder of 2013
unbalanced: (From their "worldwide" dropdown in upper right.)
MJR_III: actually executing in the real world when you have more complex operations than basically posting messages to each other is tough
MJR_III: and most web startups don't have to work in the REAL world
MJR_III: pinterest, twitter, facebook...they don't actually have to produce real things that take supply chains
unbalanced: Bear with me, I'm just wondering... is this a viable biz for that script kiddie, or maybe a team of 4, at these levels? Is it a good start or is Mr. Bitmit wasting his time?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.761 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: (leaving aside they don't even know this is where it starts)
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.76 BTC [-]
MJR_III: so a company like GE or Boeing have to do a whole different set of things than a web startup in silicon valley, and the fallacy is that because you are good at one thing, you will be good at the other
mircea_popescu: "it costs you less to buy your lube in btc on our site than at your corner lube shop" is a vp.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
unbalanced: thx, sorry but real life is interrupting, gotta run
mircea_popescu: "ebay for bitcoins" is a marketing ploy, different beast.
MJR_III: its an interesting challenge, and i think its a testament to the strength of bitcoin that it survives bad management
mircea_popescu: MJR_III well... it also yet benefits from a very low bar.
MJR_III: because at the end of the day...it comes down to management
mircea_popescu: fiat is regularly used in mission critical situations,
MJR_III: but if that is going to change, you will need people with a different skill set
mircea_popescu: such as the woman with no underwear on but five bucks in her pocket.
MJR_III: i think bringing efficiency to the exchange mechanism is going to be the first step
MJR_III: the other biggest thing will be the bitcoin atm
MJR_III: but i think that that will rely on an efficient and stable exchange
MJR_III: for example...the lady with no undies has a debit card
MJR_III: and the store only takes cash
MJR_III: not a problem nowadays, you just run to the atm
MJR_III: but you cannot have that level of convenience right now with bitcoin
smickles: cash only places usually have an atm on site
MJR_III: i think to drive local adoption, you will need to have two-way bitcoin atms spread locally
MJR_III: your fees would be in the spread that you are charging
MJR_III: since the transactions can go both ways, you could put cash in and get bitcoins out or vice versa
mircea_popescu: i still don't think bitcoin is adequate for the retail space
Troic: you going to wait for confirmations if you buy knickers ?
mircea_popescu: but that's an entirely set of problems from the bitmit thing
MJR_III: my point is...why make cash only places take debit cards?
MJR_III: the atm can give you locally accepted currency
MJR_III: while you hold mostly bitcoins
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.478 = 0.956 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.465 BTC [+]
Troic: or just one way atms, bitcoin-central's idea, cards charged in local currency charged to your btc.
MJR_III: but that is why i think that this does an end run around that problem
Troic: your, hmm, i mean their
MJR_III: but i don't want to hold my cash in bank, i want to hold bitcoins in my wallet
MJR_III: the idea of an automatically adjusting exchange rate ATM that can be connected to a wallet is pretty trivial, the main issue is again exeecution
MJR_III: ATM's are a pretty big business, access to currency is always going to be needed
MJR_III: imagine the convenience of just getting cash when you need it, anytime, for in person retail transactions
MJR_III: but holding your money and transferring for large transactions using the blockchain
MJR_III: it would add a ton of liquidity if this atm network took off
MJR_III: as people either choose to go buy some bitcoins by just depositing cash, or sell them because they need cash at the moment
mircea_popescu: i imagine the practical way this will work will be the magic cash dispenser
mircea_popescu: but it may take a while. we're not quite able to make asics yet
MJR_III: you could even...and this is maybe going above and beyond
mircea_popescu: servicing atms is a few levels of complexity atop that
MJR_III: you could have those machines also mining as they do their role of providing a convenient exchange
MJR_III: and they have made, produced and shipped asics
MJR_III: at first of course, you would hve to have them inside a business...
MJR_III: the point is that this space has already been explored...atm's are everywhere
MJR_III: you could buy an atm, and then reconfigure it to accept bitcoins instead of debit cards
jcpham: atm's have cash in them
jcpham: no one wants you to have cash
MJR_III: um...i think that the volume on the exchanges would beg to differ jcpham
jcpham: no one wants you to have cash
jcpham: cash is a dead technology
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.89749, Best ask: 89.43408, Bid-ask spread: 0.53659, Last trade: 88.65000, 24 hour volume: 155385.63557232, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.32000, 24 hour vwap: 86.37690
MJR_III: then why are so many people selling bitcoins?
MJR_III: every sale involves someone buying and someone selling
MJR_III: so some people still want cash
MJR_III: or should I say USD that they can withdraw as cash
smickles: buying cash is still a way to use bitcoin
jcpham: cash is my method for getting bitcoin
smickles: mircea_popescu: people on tv tend to look odd
MJR_III: i don't think the dollar is going anywhere for a long time
smickles: mircea_popescu: aslo, to me, it looks like she painted herself derpy eyes
MJR_III: and as mircea_popescu's excellent article showed...you don't need bitcoin to do everything
MJR_III: let it do what it is good at doing
MJR_III: and use cash for what it is good for
MJR_III: cash sucks as a store of value, but it is pretty convenient for in person local transactions
smickles: mircea_popescu: ah, right. It is a production. The probably do have people do it for her
MJR_III: cash sucks for sending money long distances, let bitcoin do that
mircea_popescu: MJR_III kinda what it was intended as, you know ? little notes saying you have gold somewhere
MJR_III: you can turn cash into a reserve note for bitcoins in a way
MJR_III: it is a proxy like all currency
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.00301 BTC [-]
MJR_III: it will basically undo bretton woods
MJR_III: as people use it to peg the dollar to something scarce
MJR_III: they can then see the real fluctuations in its value
mircea_popescu: "this govt's policy has seen our currency drop 40% against btc"
MJR_III: real value, money is not able to be inflated artificially
MJR_III: there needs to be a good or service backing it up
jcpham: like HFT trading on an exchange?
MJR_III: exchanging one proxy for another
MJR_III: until there is a better exchange, AND all exchanges communicate with each other
MJR_III: you won't have efficiencies
jcpham: i've been building a porch all week
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.00301 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: MJR_III that is a good point actually. i have no idea why everyone's so hell bent on being special unique etc.
mircea_popescu: well... other than the obvious "cause they're 16yo aspies"
MJR_III: mircea_popescu: yeah, it just takes trust, which comes down to good management
MJR_III: there is a reason our world is the way it is
MJR_III: its the sum of our choices, mostly made through individual rational choices
MJR_III: so...there is a reason i can buy something on one exchange and instantly sell it on another
MJR_III: mircea_popescu: but it is like mpex...someone has to do it, and let others build on it
MJR_III: similar to how you say that the whole world can't be hedging
mircea_popescu: MJR_III so far even a fucking naming convention is impossible to contemplate, let alone implem,ent.
MJR_III: i am already working on an engine
smickles: at one exchange, who is insolvent
MJR_III: this is the thing about bitfloor
MJR_III: it has the best model of all exchanges
mircea_popescu: smickles the redeem codes was a sorta attempt, but meh.
MJR_III: its the most convenient for me
MJR_III: again that comes down to execution
MJR_III: and i think poor choices as far as resolving that
smickles: i would use bitfloor more often if it weren't for that debt
MJR_III: wants to pay back everything in btc while collecting fees in dollars
MJR_III: you either do what a real company would do
smickles: much of bitfloor is opensourced
mircea_popescu: the girl made a very good point as to the cost of financial ineptitude vs coding inavbility
MJR_III: liquidate and pay back what you can
MJR_III: or you work out a deal with the creditors
MJR_III: charge your fees in btc for transactions
MJR_III: and put a portion of them towards the debt
smickles: there is kinda a defacto deal with the creditors
mircea_popescu: listen MJR_III this fees stuff... think for a moment. no exchanger makes money.
MJR_III: but he owed 250k now it is over a million
smickles: and he did recently make a 1% payment
mircea_popescu: you have cases with 10k a month which come to 200 btc.
mircea_popescu: or you have mtgox, which clears about enough to cover its costs.
MJR_III: mircea_popescu: how do you figure?
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 89.03000, Best ask: 89.50999, Bid-ask spread: 0.47999, Last trade: 89.03000, 24 hour volume: 155306.17401255, 24 hour low: 75.00111, 24 hour high: 94.32000, 24 hour vwap: 86.37012
smickles: and really, because of his jurisdiction, he owes the usd value of the btc at the time of the theft
mircea_popescu: MJR_III simply like this : i look at the immense fees.
mircea_popescu: since there's no competition on fees its clearly not a profitable space.
MJR_III: ;;calc 155306 * 86.37 * .004
MJR_III: there expenses are higher than 53k a day?
MJR_III: that is their volume for the last 24 hours
smickles: and this past month would't be the best indicator
MJR_III: they make well over a million a month i think
MJR_III: i've been watching for a while
MJR_III: and they have a ton of volume and very high fees
MJR_III: and i believe that some of the fees is in dollars and some in btc...not sure how they work that out
mircea_popescu: ( 2400 salary + 2800 tax + 1500 fixed) * 5 = 30k usd in employee costs.
MJR_III: ugh, it doesn't auto-ignore tiberiusiv
MJR_III: but also...just because they are the best and have first mover advantage does not mean that they are running a good exchange
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 25 @ 0.37 = 9.25 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: but this is the case of mtgox. be it as it may, in most spaces the top dog can at least pay his salt.
mircea_popescu: think a little about the 10k a month and under exchanges.
mircea_popescu: the thing is, it takes 9 months to get a child out of a woman. not negotiable.
mircea_popescu: you run an exchange you need some people. not negotiable.
MJR_III: but every exchange including mt gox and excluding mpex has been hacked
smickles: 17590762.3519516 btc volume this year, if i mathed correctly
mircea_popescu: the guy that can do the job of 5 people is NOT cheaper than hiring the 5 people.
smickles: this year being the past 365 days to the second
smickles: tiberiusiv: you don't like bitcoin magazine?
mircea_popescu: MJR_III now think of the legal bills to defend that million.
mircea_popescu: see, it's a mixed blessing. a year ago they made red ink but at least knew all the costs.
MJR_III: trust me, i understand the problems with trying to get the scale you need to make things worthwhile
mircea_popescu: today they make decent dough, but also need an entire arsenal at the ready.
MJR_III: but most businesses have to invest ahead of the growth curvve
MJR_III: like i always say, if you are not bullish on bitcoins, why start a company in this space
MJR_III: so as with all entrepreneurial endeveavors, there is risk and up front costs
MJR_III: but that is the bet you want to make, if you believe you are right
mircea_popescu: if i were runningtheir outfit i'd rend out a warehouse with a good triphase line
smickles: tiberiusiv: so you suggest that he's a scammer b/c he's romainian and allows people to post pictures you don't like, i understand that. What would you suggest my course of action be based on this information?
mircea_popescu: or whatever you call industrial power in english. 380 volt
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: you mean 400v on site?
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.00301 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: there's plenty of practically abandoned industrial space
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: easier to just have 208v three phase and then bring it down to 48v dc
MJR_III: mircea_popescu: you need triphase if you are going to have that much
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.00301 BTC [-]
MJR_III: that is what the data centers we use hve
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: yeah, but all you're doing is making it into a DC
mircea_popescu: which most cities you can have installed for w/e, 1k per meter or somesuch
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 minus a lot of the overhead. i think at least.
Diablo-D3: no, you just need to recreate the overhead
MJR_III: Diablo-D3: i was wondering about that today
smickles: ok, so add the lack of a mainstream interview to evidence that he's a scammer
jcpham: i've seen a submerged oil rig
smickles: tiberiusiv: kk, fraud does seem more apt than scammer
mircea_popescu: but anyway, maybe you're right Diablo-D3, dc is the way to go
jcpham: not something i'd want to do
MJR_III: yes, why has no one tried an oil rig for a miner?
jcpham: pretty messy to un-submerge
MJR_III: well you should probably never unsubmerge, or once a year
MJR_III: they can get cpu's up to 8ghz
smickles: tiberiusiv: I would be upset too if i had an operation the size of mpex and got left out of media attention
MJR_III: it won't interfere with the electrical operations but dissipates heat better
jcpham: to do gpu's you'd have to remove the fans
MJR_III: i was thinking an asic though would be heatsink only
jcpham: i assume that oil dissipates more heat than air no matter what
MJR_III: and then you pump the oil through a cooler
smickles: tiberiusiv: i don't think he exaggerates, he just speaks of the notational numbers because they are bigger
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: why do you think I'm working out a $250m plan thats all involving a DC?
jcpham: seems like gpus would really heat up oil
mircea_popescu: i was wtfing all to hell here thining you know... crude oil
jcpham: much more so than you think
MJR_III: but you can pump it through a cooler
jcpham: oh so the oil is cooled
MJR_III: and i am almost certain you could clock them faster
MJR_III: saying you COULD cool the oil i think in this example there was no need
mircea_popescu: jcpham use a heat exchanger to power a little steam turbine
jcpham: gpu mining really should be dead at this point
smickles: tiberiusiv: I haven't noticed an exaggeration. Are you talking about something you saw in irc or on a webpage?
MJR_III: jcpham: i mean for a real industrial asic plant
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00068292 = 1.3658 BTC [+]
MJR_III: its a super simple chip at the end of the day
MJR_III: and all that matters is clock cycles
MJR_III: so just try to do more per second
MJR_III: in fact...you wouldn't even need most of the stuff to be submerged
MJR_III: just the asic...and use a raspberry pi or whatever as the controller...it could hold the blockchain etrc
mircea_popescu: i wonder if it'd be practical to make your asic farm in a small siberian town
smickles: tiberiusiv: though, that market cap does seem high to me, it is consistant with the amount of buys from people other than mircea_popescu that I know of myself
mircea_popescu: eh gtfo. facebook doesn't have a revenue model, is worth 100bn
MJR_III: not sure if even cold siberian air would allow for the levels of ghz that oil would
smickles: tiberiusiv: most of the activity happening when mircea_popescu is around, doesn't really indicate that mircea_popescu is the cause of said activity
MJR_III: i wouldn't engage, you are giving him what he wants
MJR_III: only really original and next generation
mircea_popescu: MJR_III not air. WATER! run a stream through your thing
smickles: tiberiusiv: you don't think that activity could increase from other people in similar timezones to mircea_popescu ?
MJR_III: but i think oil is the best heat dissapater
MJR_III: and any gain from siberian cold could be translated to oil
MJR_III: the oil can actually touch the chip
smickles: tiberiusiv: aslo, from what i've read of the polimedia financials, most of his money used to come from consulting
smickles: surely there are business in romania
MJR_III: so i think that at 6hz and above...you have to worry about the small times where the heat is still on the chip before the water can suck it up
MJR_III: smickles: careful, if you keep disagreeing you will be poor
smickles: MJR_III: if you notice, i granted him the fact that mircea_popescu is a fraud and asked him what i should do about it
smickles: tiberiusiv: our current president is from one of the most corrupt places in 'merica
jcpham: mircea_popescu did you know romania si the most corrupt place in europe
jcpham: mircea_popescu did you know i can buy a judge for $500
jcpham: i read about it in this channel recently
jcpham: sorry no citations for sources, though
jcpham: you'll have to trust me
smickles: and america is ripe for bashing, it does a lot of stupit shit
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'd say romania is about as corrupt as france.
smickles: at the cost of waging war everywhere
MJR_III: anyways, i think if you could hash 2.5x as fast...you would be making a ton of money
smickles: coming from a country where our dear leader has a public assasination list, corruption doesn't sound all that bad
smickles: tiberiusiv: that video looks decades old, is it still like that?
smickles: tiberiusiv: how come that video has a bunch of comments saying that it's not like that anymore?
smickles: i don't think poverty = corruption
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.44 = 4.4 BTC [-]
DeaDTerra1: Looking to borrow fiat on MtGox or Bitstamp!
DeaDTerra1: 10k$ ish, btcx.se (where I work) are totally out of float, people just got their salaries and it's now a four day holiday in Sweden...
DeaDTerra1: we need to stack up some float as we are already zeroed and the weekend just started
smickles: I think 10k is above my legal limit
DeaDTerra1: I can take lower amounts, as I said. We are zeroed :P I am quite desperate for any amount I can get my hands on. btcx will repay it on Monday/Tuesday when our wire hits MtGox
smickles: oh, this state doesn't have an amount limit
smickles: or an interest rate limit if the rate is in a contract
MJR_III: smickles: how is it in the jurisdiction of the state?
MJR_III: thought it would be in japan
smickles: MJR_III: i'm not sure how jurisdiction would play out, so i default to where I am
DeaDTerra1: We are willing to offer 0.5-1% for a loan from today to Monday/Tuesday when the wire hits out MtGox account.
bugpowderr: It's not unreasonable, but not sufficient for me. Sorry
mircea_popescu: maybe putting a btc ask for a slightly above mkt price may work naturally to attract fiat ?
DeaDTerra1: Okay no problem :), if you change your mind just pm me
DeaDTerra1: Would work if we actually had some bitcoins :P
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.0006742 = 11.7985 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 800 @ 0.00067177 = 0.5374 BTC [-]
DeaDTerra1: We have sent out all our bitcoins to customers
MJR_III: makes sense...so you can't fill new orders?
MJR_III: wouldn't it make sense to borrow btc then?
DeaDTerra1: nope, we get people who want to buy Bitcoins in Sweden, and we do not have float to buy bitcoins and send them out to the customers :9
DeaDTerra1: It would except we kind of do not want the exchange risk of borrowing BTC
MJR_III: well they have fiat waiting on the wire
DeaDTerra1: well, we have Fiat tons of it, just not on mtgox :)
MJR_III: a future contract maybe...
DeaDTerra1: We have about 70k $ wire transfer on it's way to MtGox but due to bank holiday and easter it will not hit mtgox until after this weekend
DeaDTerra1: I will become that desperate tomorrow :P
DeaDTerra1: then I am thinking of just longing on bitfinex to hedge the risk and borrow BTC
MJR_III: short term commercial paper is so far an emerging market
DeaDTerra1: Yea, I would love to have a connect to future/option market
DeaDTerra1: so you can connect your backend and hedge all exchange risks
sturles: DeaDTerra1: If you sent to the bank in Japan, they don't have any Easter holidays there.
DeaDTerra1: In our normal buisiness model this is not needed and also we do not have Bitcoins as our float but USD/SEK
MJR_III: why do most exchanges collect fees in fiat...
DeaDTerra1: No they do not, but Swedish banks do and people just got their salary. The wire was sent yesterday so I expect it to reach Mtgod on monday/tuesday.
mircea_popescu: "Unfortunately, without proper funding and with limited manpower running a project of this magnitude has proven to be very difficult. Recently, these problems caused for a group of users trouble and losses of funds. Ultimately, that's why we decided to shut down BitMarket.eu and stopped trading."
DeaDTerra1: Didn't expect this volume :P, I guess it's the combination of everyone that wants in before the holidays and that they just got their salaries
MJR_III: yeah, holiday weekends are interesting
MJR_III: smickles: do you think that tax returns will inject more cash into the btc economy
MJR_III: whats with all the ddos'ing lately
MJR_III: management, management, management
bugpowderr: its a same Deprived doesn't hang out here
MJR_III: figured that's what you meant
ThickAsThieves: I have Deprived my coinbr referall as a tip, and invited him here
MJR_III: i don't really like the bitcointalk forums, so i am glad you guys are here to tell me the best articles
jborkl: MJR_III : I was wrong about the diff retarget- my bad
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 50 @ 0.445 = 22.25 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.80000000 / 1.83999412 / 1.92000000 (17 shares, 31.27990000 BTC), 7D: 1.41000000 / 1.72493945 / 2.00000000 (180 shares, 310.48910090 BTC), 30D: 1.40000000 / 1.8649577 / 17.25000000 (715 shares, 1333.44475269 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00062187 / 0.00066672 / 0.00068292 (568576 shares, 379.08 BTC), 7D: 0.0006 / 0.00066359 / 0.00071369 (2166747 shares, 1,437.85 BTC), 30D: 0.0006 / 0.00073309 / 0.00078628 (17281635 shares, 12,669.03 BTC)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.40001 = 1.2 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.391 = 1.955 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.39 = 0.78 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3600 @ 0.00394014 = 14.1845 BTC [-]
smickles: MJR_III: people tend to spend tax returns on stupid shit, and i'm sure there are plenty of people who consider bitcoins stupid shit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2109 @ 0.00068292 = 1.4403 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00068293 = 0.8878 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00068294 = 3.4147 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15191 @ 0.00068314 = 10.3776 BTC [+]
bugpowderr: Yah, people think "free money!" Let's roll the dice
smickles: i plan to use my 'return' on my car loan
smickles: you fuckers gave me about 5 grand in eic
bugpowderr: That wall at 76 must have put us over 10MM
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 2 @ 0.131 = 0.262 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.37 = 0.74 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 18 @ 0.39 = 7.02 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.380112 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.3700001 = 0.74 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.37000001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.36 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.355 = 3.55 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 17 @ 0.35 = 5.95 BTC [-]
topace: been getting a lot of push requests lately
topace: people buying on mpex and selling on havelock
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1075 BTC [+]
gribble: (eauth <nick>) -- Initiate authentication for user <nick>. You must have registered a GPG key with the bot for this to work. You will be given a link to a page which contains a one time password encrypted with your key. Decrypt, and use the 'everify' command with it. Your passphrase will expire in 10 minutes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3200 @ 0.0037 = 11.84 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2000 @ 0.003615 = 7.23 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1512 @ 0.00361 = 5.4583 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.003601 = 3.601 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00360001 = 3.6 BTC [-]
pgp: based on the idea that asic devices will eventually start shipping, does anyone have an estimate on how much extra hashing power is likely to come online within the next few months?
mpexbot: smickles: S.DICE 1 day: average: 0.00396702 high: 0.00419995 low: 0.00360001 volume: 31375 btc: 124.46532743 7 day: average: 0.00339187 high: 0.0045 low: 0.0031 volume: 678237 btc: 2300.4892668 30 day: average: 0.00453418 high: 0.0063799 low: 0.00300001 volume: 1714919 btc: 7775.7474019
assbot: [HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.35000000 / 0.40726766 / 0.46500000 (265 shares, 107.92593120 BTC), 7D: 0.35000000 / 0.46365078 / 0.53000000 (1486 shares, 688.98505175 BTC), 30D: 0.35000000 / 0.51934247 / 0.68950000 (5763 shares, 2992.97064753 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00360001 / 0.00396702 / 0.00419995 (31375 shares, 124.47 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.00339186 / 0.0045 (678237 shares, 2,300.49 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00453417 / 0.0063799 (1714919 shares, 7,775.75 BTC)
topace: not bad for havelock having 10% of the shares
topace: well 10% of the shares that are actually trading on mpex
topace: more than 1% of the toal
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1784 @ 0.00337335 = 6.0181 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00068081 = 11.7099 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00067177 = 21.5974 BTC [-]
pgp: what's the deal with gox allowing you to put in orders that exceed your balance?
smickles: pgp: bugpowderr seems to know more about it, but basically, they let you do it
mpexbot: smickles: S.MPOE 1 day: average: 0.00067061 high: 0.00068314 low: 0.0006357 volume: 604261 btc: 405.22276531 7 day: average: 0.00066388 high: 0.00071369 low: 0.0006 volume: 2226197 btc: 1477.93072672 30 day: average: 0.00073286 high: 0.00078628 low: 0.0006 volume: 17354585 btc: 12718.4554152
pgp: so, concievable much of the order book dept could be totally bogus
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 14 @ 0.7514 = 10.5196 BTC [+]
smickles: bugpowderr seems to think it isnt
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.7513 = 7.513 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7511 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.751 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 40 @ 0.131 = 5.24 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.75 = 1.5 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75 BTC [-]
bugpowderr: pgp all orders that display in the book are fully funded
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.745 = 2.98 BTC [-]
bugpowderr: you can place additional orders, but they will be listed as 'insufficient funds' and will not show on the book.
bugpowderr: They will appear on the book if you add additional funds
bugpowderr: for example, if you are waiting for funds to clear, but you want to go to sleep, you can place the order and go to sleep
bugpowderr: when funds clear it will automatically hit the book
jcpham: so much text and screenshots
deadweasel: kakobrekla: it's like daytime television.
topace: heh so bfl now has a working asic, but its using too much power
pgp: they subcontracted to boeing...
Ukto: does this mean bfl will putoff releasing the asics until they get power under control ?
topace: We've been tracking down a power issue these last few days and have it isolated to a few key systems. In the interest of time, we are planning on potentially scaling back units hashing speed as required to accommodate the extra power and shipping multiple units to those that want their units right now. If would would prefer to wait for a unit after we've made some changes to the systems that need a bit of tweaking, we will be happy to put your sh
topace: ipment on hold. However, if you'd rather have the units right now at an increased power usage, we will ship you as many units as required to get you to the hashrate your purchased, if we end up having to scale back any given class of unit to fit within the power envelope of the current board design.
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 10 @ 0.09 = 0.9 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0006357 / 0.0006706 / 0.00068314 (604261 shares, 405.22 BTC), 7D: 0.0006 / 0.00066388 / 0.00071369 (2226197 shares, 1,477.93 BTC), 30D: 0.0006 / 0.00073285 / 0.00078628 (17354585 shares, 12,718.46 BTC)
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 10 @ 0.1001 = 1.001 BTC [+]
taub: dawwnn of battle, bears, CHARGE
pgp: bugpowderr - any predictions?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.479 = 0.958 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 10 @ 0.004087 = 0.0409 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 20 @ 0.00409 = 0.0818 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 2 @ 0.004113 = 0.0082 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36569 @ 0.00067177 = 24.566 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13381 @ 0.00067955 = 9.0931 BTC [+]
MJR_III: to all those people saying btc isn't backed by anything...it's backed by drama
pgp: it's a 1849 style gold rush in ASICs right now
MJR_III: yep and i think avalon is the clear winner so far
MJR_III: the bitbet BFL decision will be fun to watch
pgp: those pickaxes have gone up in value ALOT since they wre pre-ordered...
pgp: ebay list many of them at 1000% of MSRP
MJR_III: think they sold out batch 3 in under an hour...thats 600 x 80 btc AT LEAST for a total of 24000 btc
pgp: how many TH in batch 3?
MJR_III: not a bad sale i would say
MJR_III: i think batch 3 was 600 units at 66gh each
MJR_III: you could order the 88gh version
MJR_III: so...200 * 88 and 400 * 66
pgp: say that batch 1 and 2 ws a total of 60 TH - 100% of current network hash rate
MJR_III: pgp: i don't think it would be that much
MJR_III: the largest batch was batch 3
MJR_III: and that is a total of 44 TH
MJR_III: last i saw they pushed back
MJR_III: batch 2 is just getting delivered now
MJR_III: and i THINK, but i may be completely wrong, that may 15th is target delivery date for batch 3
MJR_III: Yifu wrote something about that but I can't find the link
MJR_III: BFL keeps saying, oh tomorrow
MJR_III: avalon got it, they understood what it takes to get the product to market
MJR_III: AND understood that being first was more important
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 20 @ 0.00459 = 0.0918 BTC [+]
MJR_III: so BFL's stated design may be a better product
MJR_III: but so far it is nonexistent
bgupta: Yeah need to ship to stay in the game
bgupta: sometimes worse is better
MJR_III: just another example of management trumping design specs or programming knowledge
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00337335 / 0.00393508 / 0.00419995 (33159 shares, 130.48 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.0033864 / 0.0045 (675670 shares, 2,288.09 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00453297 / 0.0063799 (1716703 shares, 7,781.77 BTC)
error4733: MJR, i always read yifu never thinks he can succes to be first
MJR_III: he was trying to stave off monopoly by BFL
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00494 BTC [+]
MJR_III: just so there would be diversification in the market
error4733: was not a strategic choise for time
MJR_III: well...he could have waited
MJR_III: and prob done a smaller process
MJR_III: and it works and is being delivered
MJR_III: I think he felt pressure to keep up with BFL
MJR_III: but was just way better at execution than they were
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.0006713 = 19.8034 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00066822 = 8.9876 BTC [-]
MJR_III: someone thinks there won't be much of a dividend i guess
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7295 BTC [-]
error4733: i still think in this big money business, should be easy to give 50K$ in china to fuck up a concurrent
error4733: change a little setting in any part of the process and you get 6 more month delay
MJR_III: think its possible but unlikely
MJR_III: in this specific case, there were only 3 real contenders
MJR_III: mt.gox is laggier than bitcoinity.org
MJR_III: error4733: i hope that the tablet works
MJR_III: i think that one thing is becoming clear, from kickstarter projects and bitcoin projects, creating a cool website is not the same thing as creating a viable business
MJR_III: but the main difference between web based ideas and the other businesses is interaction with the real world
MJR_III: everyone focuses on CEO/CTO in this space...but COO is where you really shine
MJR_III: mircea_popescu: i wasn't aware that you did web hosting, but I saw the little hosted by mpex on bitcoinity
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3850 @ 0.00066822 = 2.5726 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00066587 = 9.8882 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1600 @ 0.00066529 = 1.0645 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.479 = 0.958 BTC [+]
smickles: mtgox will be depreciated on apr 10 due to legal issues
MJR_III: yeah those will be deprecated i had heard
MJR_III: they can't use gox coupons
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00067955 = 0.6796 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.479 = 2.395 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.479 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.41999996 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.41999997 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.41999998 = 2.1 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.41999999 BTC [+]
KRS1: what happens to gox accounts once "depreciated"
MJR_III: you just won't be able to withdraw USD via Mt. Gox USD codes i think
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.739 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.740995 = 1.482 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.741 BTC [+]
MJR_III: i'm looking into the exact details
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 50 @ 0.42 = 21 BTC [+]