▁▁▁▁▁▁⏐︎ 12589
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.479 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: $oix
thestringpuller: !ticker ^oix
assbot: Hell, ain't we about more fucked than a whore at closin' time, huh?
thestringpuller: !ticker m ^oix
assbot: [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 66.95953589 / 85.06143152 / 85.06556611 (111084 shares, 22,108.25 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)
mircea_popescu: MJR_III i don't really.
jborkl: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80312.1080
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
KRS1: lol@assbot
KRS1: is that his warning
benkay: /join #chef
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: gribble is down
thestringpuller: ;;gribble
gribble: yes I am gribble. why do you keep bothering me?
thestringpuller: ;;asks
mircea_popescu: lolk
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu you are working some magic...
thestringpuller: sometimes I wonder who actually has more power, people like you, or the blokes at the bank...
MJR_III: ;;calc 1+1
gribble: 2
MJR_III: gribble is working...
mircea_popescu: i has no powar
MJR_III: bitfinex is down i think
smickles: ya know, i don't recall bitcoinica going down as often as ya'll say bitfinex goes down
smickles: 'coinica really only went down once
MJR_III: its back up
MJR_III: i think it has to do with the cloudflare anti-dddos
jurov: so i just came from meeting about btc alternatives
jurov: that changed into ppcoin sales pitch
MJR_III: jurov: alt chains?
jurov: yes
smickles: jurov: what's so good about ppcoin?
jurov: bitcoin is too power hungry, ppcoin is more ecological
smickles: orly
MJR_III: you've lost me there
jurov: plus we received stern warning that moeny is not morally nutral
MJR_III: if you find something that uses less power, more people will mine
jurov: *neutral
MJR_III: driving difficulty up further and using the same power
jurov: so if we become suddenly rich, we shoudl thin about the outcome of our actions
jurov: and ppcoin is not using difficulty
MJR_III: interesting
jurov: everyone who has enough coins*time can have a right to issue a block
jurov: but it's not in effect yet, its mining normally until some time passes
jurov: for now i'm reserving my judgement, maybe buying some just in case
MJR_III: while i rate all other cryptocurrencies chances as around 1% might be worth it to hold a basket of all of them, just in case
smickles: no upper limit on ppcoin amounts either
jurov: that was mentioned too that he considers inflation as consequence of 2nd thermodynamic law and thus it should be allowed
smickles: i feel like the proof-of-stake bit turns it into a game, get 51% of the coins and you win
jurov: no, someone with older coins than you can issue blocks instead
jurov: you have to wait with your 51% to get the right
jurov: after receiving them
smickles: but, wouldn't that mean they have to do nothing w/ their coins to maintain
Bugpowder: I would love to short ripple
jurov: yes, if you spend the coins, you lower your weight
jurov: this actually would be motivation to hoard, hence inflation is necessary
smickles: so, if someone gets anywhere near 50%, then people have to stop spending coins to protect it
kakobrekla: lol
MJR_III: while it may be an interesting and novel approach
MJR_III: as with all the others i doubt it will gain the momentum it needs
smickles: lol
jurov: if someone gets anywhere near 50% *he* has to wait to be able to pull 51% attack, meanwhile others mine blocks and lower his part
MJR_III: it would need to have a signifigant advantage
smickles: take many massive loans, get near 50%, the claim you can't pay because you have to protect the network!
jurov: you *can* pay
jurov: but you can't use them as a proof of stake tomine
MJR_III: bugpowder: what's stopping you?
jurov: cuz all ur coins are new and shiiny
MJR_III: in some ways this ruins the fungibility of the money though
MJR_III: all coins are not equal
jurov: and only older coins can be used as proof of stake to mine
jurov: well, actually i heard about it today first time, that's how i understood it
MJR_III: i just finished reading their white paper
Bugpowder: where can I short ripple?
MJR_III: bugpowder: just find someone willing to lend you some
jurov: and all btc coins aren't equal too, as anyone who tried to spend new satoshidice outputs can attest
MJR_III: jurov: because they haven't been verified yet?
Bugpowder: no cause they dusted
jurov: een after they were verified, satoshi client defaults to higer txfee
jurov: you have to wait
jurov: aside from that dusted consideration
Bugpowder: oh, here was that blog with the mining profit plots
Bugpowder: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com
jurov: anyway my peeve with them altcoins is they all use outdated satoshi codebase
jurov: both litecoin and ppcoin are based on 0.6
jurov: while bitcoind was quite much refactored in 0.7/0.8 versions
jurov: causing simple merging impossible
jurov: and boy, they are thrashy...
kakobrekla: thats the good part.
kakobrekla: ya really
kakobrekla: yope.
kakobrekla: O_o
jurov: bitcoin is *not* ready to replace any amount of worldwide economy. we do need experiments/forks at this stage
jurov: but we also need someone to do it properly
jurov: yea, these poor silkroad dealers you mentioned yest. let's remember them with moment of silence.
MJR_III: what happened to the sr dealers?
thestringpuller: that will change as price increases
jurov: tiberiusiv because it is too risky to keep big amounts on exchanges
Bugpowder: You can move about 0.5MM pretty easily
jurov: and that's actually good, it slows the rally while we accrue some real competency (by tial and error, but hopefully still)
Bugpowder: huh?
Bugpowder: people buy that all the time
Bugpowder: 0.5MM?
pgp: need credible exchange
jurov: like if there were millions going in and out, that wouldn't cause wild swings?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.41999999 BTC [-]
Bugpowder: single 1MM gox orders have been going off once a day for the past 2 weeks
Bugpowder: there is a 1.5MM bid at 76 right now
Bugpowder: the swings are from goxlag
jurov: nonsense. if all 10m bitcoins were on mtgox's ask side
Bugpowder: yes it is
MJR_III: true which is around 30 seconds now
Bugpowder: I saw it go up
MJR_III: ;;goxlag
gribble: 36.499108 seconds
jurov: then 1m USD would still move the price considerably
jurov: so? don't clamor for impossible them.
jurov: *then
Bugpowder: a 1M buy right now moves the price 5%
Bugpowder: if you hit it all at once
Bugpowder: instead of dribble
Bugpowder: I bet a 1MM bid moves any midcap stock at least as much
Bugpowder: no
jurov: tiberiusiv so how do you propose to get instantly into 1trillion mkt cap?
jurov: so you can have your beloved liquidity?
MJR_III: hahaha
jurov: it's necessary condition
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00067039 = 6.5028 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2718 @ 0.00066531 = 1.8083 BTC [-]
jurov: one of necessary conditions
pgp: bp - your right about comparing to trading in midcap stocks
pgp: the same can be said of companies that ipo
pgp: often they float <10% of there shares and often aren't that liquid
pgp: mt gox makes it a closed system to a certain extent
jurov: i'd argue that fiat is "overliquid" since it has inflated supply so you have too high expectations
jurov: bitcoin is scarce, not easy to just lend 10k block
jurov: from central bank
jurov: and use it to trade
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.014 BTC [+]
jurov: but where you can take it from? someone will lend it to you
jurov: this isn't so easy with btc.. jus lend it on moment;s notice
jurov: tiberiusiv, all that "volume" and "liuquidity" on irl fin markets is thanks to leverage
jurov: agree or not?
jurov: and there were crashes every now and then
jurov: and panics
jurov: like we have now in btc
jurov: yes, and i do ask, where is the liquidity from?
jurov: from leverage, i say.
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.37 BTC [+]
pgp: leverage and credit lines are the key to liquidity in modern financial markets
jurov: gold covered money was not either. $1m could really create panic at its time
jurov: this is fiat at the moment
MJR_III: ugh i can't trade like this
jurov: how so? they are printing and loaning it out in hopes some greater fool will come and eat all the debt
jurov: tiberiusiv don't change the topic
jurov: lalalalala
jurov: you obvoisly aren't trying to understand what i'm saying :/
jurov: what i told in last 50 lines?
jurov: obviously if you aren't even replying to my point
MJR_III: jurov: he is not interested in your points, he will always change topics once you have proven him wrong yet again...
jurov: ^^^ this
MJR_III: i ignored him long ago...i wish everyone else would
MJR_III: i know how tempting it can be to show someone who is obviuosly wrong how and where they are wrong...but i couldn't get sucked into that trap any more
MJR_III: he is banking on you getting invested in trying to show him the intelligent way of looking at things
MJR_III: he'll devolve into ad hominem, and any other logical fallacy
jurov: i know. but it's useful for me to try and explain, too, even if he isn't listening
MJR_III: good point
MJR_III: i at least enjoyed reading your points
bgupta: Is there a relatively conventional futures market in btc?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.41999999 = 0.84 BTC [-]
jurov: so? you want to pump and dump and can't?
jurov: and it can get you more if ye weren't inept and bought mpoe options with these 12k in meantime
jurov: they are most liquid instrument there is
smickles: ;;bc,24hprc
gribble: 88.81
jurov: dude they are just covered by tens of thousands of btc.
MJR_III: cue talking shit about mircea_popescu
MJR_III: i can't see what he wrote but i'm guessing gypsy something
jurov: yea btc is illiquid hence everything is shit lalalalala
smickles: mp is just a greasy wanabe pimp
MJR_III: ooh thats new
MJR_III: love that he can still surprise me
smickles: tiberiusiv: np :D
MJR_III: this is actually fun
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 72 @ 0.41 = 29.52 BTC [-]
MJR_III: guessing his arguments from watching half the convo
MJR_III: how many people has he called poor? over/under 3
jurov: tiberiusiv nobody here agrees with you. so you must have indeed better understanding :)
taub: downpressure is stronger than ever
jurov: no i'm mere sockpuppet
jurov: so we finally arrived at name calling :D
jurov: seems i did convince you as well
jurov: granted, i did convince them first :)
jurov: yes? what did he try to sell you?
jurov: and how do you know for example iDiffs i'm selling aren't overvalued trash?
jurov: and you have obsession with undoing someone, i see :)
jurov: oh seems talking to self mode activated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21636 @ 0.00067234 = 14.5467 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00067326 = 3.3663 BTC [+]
jurov: sorry to disrupt your thought processes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15664 @ 0.00067327 = 10.5461 BTC [+]
smickles: what've you got against psycopaths?
MJR_III: lol
MJR_III: have we arrived at this point already?
smickles: psycopaths are usually productive members of society
jurov: yea, especially sociopaths are among the most productive
MJR_III: they say a lot of ceo's are sociopaths
smickles: i dunno about that, seems kinda off-handed remarkish
MJR_III: yeah, its more of an urban legend i suppose
MJR_III: i can't trade at all right now, bitfinex is fucked
smickles: MJR_III: what do you want to trade?
MJR_III: not sure...maybe just short at 92
MJR_III: try to get out around 88
MJR_III: its mostly for fun on my bitfinex account, i usually just lend out the money, but interest rates have dropped, so i am actively trading the account to try and grow it a bit
smickles: wow, you picked a winner of a site do trade on
MJR_III: lol, only margin trading platform really
MJR_III: as far as i know
smickles: icbit works better than this place
MJR_III: i was wondering though, and maybe mircea_popescu has some experience, but what if you used some sort of system to break up the channel of info
MJR_III: like have orders on a certain port
MJR_III: data on a different one
MJR_III: and none of them are 80
MJR_III: or if you had a vpn session or something
smickles: what would be the point?
MJR_III: avoid ddos
smickles: i bet they could direct ddos at any port
MJR_III: i wonder if you could create a fix engine in a web browser
MJR_III: i'm sure they could smickles
MJR_III: hence you have to have a valid logon
MJR_III: and then your trading session goes across that
smickles: you'd still have to negotiate the logon
MJR_III: true
MJR_III: hmmm
MJR_III: i just had another idea...but not sure if it would work
MJR_III: you know how yubikey or any of those authenticators work?
MJR_III: what if you used that for port based connection
MJR_III: only registered customers could connect cuz they know what port to connect on
smickles: obfuscation is not protection
smickles: eventually, that port would be known
smickles: if not right away
jurov: i'd use ssl certificate
MJR_III: no, the port constantly changes
MJR_III: every 20 seconds
jurov: with some ddos protection that supports ssl
MJR_III: but since your auth is changing the same way as their client
MJR_III: you can always connect
jurov: the ddos coinbr saw would have no problem penetrating all 65535 ports
Troic: hmm what good is a different port if your upstream connection is saturated ?
MJR_III: good points
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.007601 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: MJR_III understand, ddos threat is not to cpu
mircea_popescu: it's to the routers.
MJR_III: yes
MJR_III: thats what you were telling me
jurov: using various IP addresses instead of port may work
jurov: but you still need to expose some stable anchor where users authenticate
MJR_III: i still think that you could use the yubikey method
jurov: and get the ip
mircea_popescu: <jurov> but we also need someone to do it properly << i'm with him
jurov: hmmm... maybe create DNS entry <nextyubikeycode>.domain.com seems doable?
mircea_popescu: ppcoin sounds more like "what does this button do" than anything.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.787948 = 1.5759 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <pgp> often they float <10% of there shares and often aren't that liquid <<< /me grins
MJR_III: jurov yeah that is what i was thinking
Troic: nothing to stop the dosser getting the ip, well 30btc, unless each user has a differnt ip/isp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3 @ 0.0039999 = 0.012 BTC [+]
MJR_III: a token based system
MJR_III: how would he get the token?
jurov: yes you need a pool of ips
MJR_III: only registered users would get it
MJR_III: and yes, a pool of ips, but that shouldn't be that hard
jurov: yubikey creates a pseudorandom string and you know what the strign is going to be, no?
MJR_III: yes
jurov: as you issued the yubikey
Troic: pool of IPs on different AS, that is expensive, at least you can shut the account down :)
MJR_III: and it changes every 20 seconds according to a pattern that only you can tell]
jurov: bah, it can be just a bunch of spot instances or cheap vpses
MJR_III: i guess it would be similar to the one time password that gribble does
MJR_III: exactly, its just a simple authenticator which serves as a gatekeeper before you connect
Troic: 'bunch of spot instances or cheap vpses' all on same router for dos to target
mircea_popescu: myeah.
MJR_III: can't you split them up?
Troic: expensive
jurov: Troic, on amazon you can have the instances on like 10 diff places
MJR_III: AWS instances in different zones?
mircea_popescu: MJR_III this is what was going on back during ddos
jurov: for almost the same price, yes
mircea_popescu: some ninny actually took the time to blow them up one at a time
Troic: 10 customers
jurov: mircea_popescu cuz you didn't use amazon loadbalancer... granted, with 10TB traffic it would get a bit expensive :)
mircea_popescu: jurov they were cheap vps's etc
mircea_popescu: i thought htat's what we were disucssing
MJR_III: what is the cost of a ddos of that magnitude?
mircea_popescu: siiignificant.
jurov: yes we were talink about that, but after experimenting i realized hiding these cheap vpses behind loadbalancer is the way to go
jurov: *talking
mircea_popescu: i hear 1gbit for 30 seconds is like 5-10 bux for random noob.
MJR_III: 10 terabytes? that has got to cost quite a bit
jurov: 10TB is around 300bux iirc
jurov: for a lb
MJR_III: per how long?
jurov: total
jurov: accoumulated
MJR_III: that is pretty cheap
mircea_popescu: 10 tb = 1000 seconds of 10 gbit
jurov: thre's maybe hope they are onyl counting legit traffic that ges through
jurov: not syn flood
jurov: i should research it
mircea_popescu: possibly ya
mircea_popescu: but so was i.
mircea_popescu: synflood is like, 14 bytes per packet ?
jurov: $0.008 per GB of data processed by an Elastic Load Balancer, no further details
jurov: plus $0.025 per Elastic Load Balancer-hour (or partial hour)
MJR_III: not too bad
MJR_III: you could bring it up when the attack starts
MJR_III: and i think you would be blocking their expensive attack with a cheap shield
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.48 = 4.8 BTC [+]
taub: what do you guys think? up/down?
taub: I'm still bearish short term, this retracement isn't over
MJR_III: think we are somewhat stablising
MJR_III: i think we bounce between 92 and 88
MJR_III: maybe if gox lag gets bad quick spikes in either direction
MJR_III: mircea_popescu: so what is cloudflare actually doing for bitfinex
MJR_III: i can't use their website
mircea_popescu: i dunno who was asking me about ddos protection services and i said they all have their issues
mircea_popescu: this'd be an example.
taub: bitfinex would work better if they would deploy on a more solid exchange
taub: like bitfloor
MJR_III: i agree
MJR_III: bitfloor has the best response time i think
taub: yea, its the least worst exchange i've seen
MJR_III: lol
MJR_III: wish there was a better order interface
MJR_III: but what can you do
taub: okay mpex is the pinnacle, but for btcusd
MJR_III: also margin and shorting would be nice
MJR_III: well of course
jurov: mircea_popescu: options did exercise but old names still stayed
jurov: or it's scheduled for later?
mircea_popescu: yeah.
MJR_III: also...roman told me that he could handle 2k orders per second
taub: :O
MJR_III: mircea_popescu: so if its the router...if it just drops all but a certain subset of traffic, can it still be overloaded?
mircea_popescu: MJR_III yes.
MJR_III: mircea_popescu: so there is unblockable ddos?
mircea_popescu: yes.
jurov: ;;bc,24hprc
gribble: 89.55
jurov: if they flooded with fully legit gpg-encypted requests for example
MJR_III: interesting
KRS1: i dont think there is such a thing MJR
MJR_III: KRS1: a purely hardware overload
KRS1: you can filter it through a proxy
KRS1: thats what my friend does for a living..he mitigates attacks
MJR_III: KRS1: if the proxy is overloaded
bgupta: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/03/29/digital-currency-bitcoin-surpasses-20-national-currencies-in-value/
KRS1: i know a bit about it being in IT but i'm not an expert in that area
MJR_III: well, i think every piece of hardware will have a limit
MJR_III: and this is just theorizing
MJR_III: but if any piece is overloaded (it could restart, or have its buffers flooded) you break the site
KRS1: the proxy typically is equipped for the traffic and then its filtered and sent to the customer
MJR_III: no i understand
MJR_III: mircea was talking about terabytes of data
KRS1: the idea is that if you cant accept the traffic something needs to accept it for you that cant be overwhelmed
KRS1: even for terabytes of data
MJR_III: but my point is that as far as i know there is no device with unlimited capacity
KRS1: thats right
ThickAsThieves: how many hours til newstyle options might be released?
KRS1: you scale it
KRS1: with additional hardware
MJR_III: so if you had a 100gb router (they exist) it could still be brought down
KRS1: sure why not...any distributed effort can be bigger than its target.
MJR_III: true
MJR_III: of course you probbably donb't need to stop theoretical attacks just make it impractical
KRS1: hopefully you have something that can accept the traffic that can handle it
MJR_III: yes true
MJR_III: but for example, i am setting up an stunnel to bitfloor
MJR_III: so worst case if the site goes down, that should not bring down my stunnel
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 14 @ 0.00385 = 0.0539 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 20 @ 0.00381 = 0.0762 BTC [-]
MJR_III: so for an institutional client, some sort of vpn on dedicated hardware is probably best
KRS1: encryption adds a lot of overhead
KRS1: i think i see what you are saying
KRS1: what would be the target though
KRS1: right
KRS1: hopefully multiples that can failover if need be
MJR_III: good point
KRS1: the cisco ASA can vpn too
MJR_III: yep
MJR_III: that is what we have lol
MJR_III: and 6509's 2 of them VSS'd
KRS1: nice
KRS1: dont forget about bandwidth when setting up stunnel, encryption adds overhead
KRS1: dns..etc.
MJR_III: its ture
MJR_III: true
MJR_III: hmmm, what is the best router out there?
MJR_III: i'm just curious
MJR_III: the asa is actually a firewall right
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 1.895 = 3.79 BTC [+]
MJR_III: juniper makes some nice stuff
MJR_III: fuck when i finally got back on bitfinex i am greeted by the position i didn't know i had
kakobrekla: lol
MJR_III: it actually is not that bad of a position though...short at 90.50
jurov: mircea used vwap 90.34 ??? quite a boost we got there :P
MJR_III: i exercised at 71, what a sucker i am
MJR_III: that was awesome, my local pizza place delivered me cigarettes
KRS1: yea asa is awesome
MJR_III: i wonder...how will ipv6 change the DDOS landscape
KRS1: router-depends on what you use it for
MJR_III: cisco 7000 series
KRS1: ipv6 is just a transport mechanism not sure it would matter
MJR_III: you could have a MUCH greater address pool
KRS1: sorry i mean addressing method
MJR_III: and also you wouldn't have to worry about NATing
MJR_III: which can be a bottleneck
KRS1: yeah ipv6 would increase the # of ddos participants against the target if you could ever get there
MJR_III: good point
KRS1: router- depending on the application
KRS1: voip traffic, etc
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: financials up yet?
MJR_III: tcp\ip = cisco i think
MJR_III: vs udp etc
MJR_III: i mean
jurov: lol certain lucky coinbr user made 4 btc out of one using calls (not tibby obviously)
MJR_III: wow what did he have?
MJR_III: 41 calls is what i got
jurov: thestringpuller don't be impatient :)
KRS1: bbl
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-march-2013-statement/
mircea_popescu: ok tghere it is.
copumpkin: hmm, that's not ideal
jurov: so all the bonds that went below 100BTC will be paid out automatically or we need to ask?
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 700 @ 0.000617 = 0.4319 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 120 @ 0.000616 = 0.0739 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: jurov they get paid.
mircea_popescu: i forgot the red lines
jurov: mircea_popescu: and why so high vwap got used? did it really fell from 90.34 to 89.55 in 10 minutes?
mircea_popescu: actually i see it 91.05 atm ?
jurov: ;;bc,24hprc
gribble: 89.53
jurov: where?
jurov: http://www.bitcoincharts.com/markets/currencies/ lists 89.53 too
mircea_popescu: hm
taub: i dont like this price action one bit
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of volume right at the edge of the rolling window
MJR_III: wow mircea_popescu, that did make me nauseous
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: where is dat post
thestringpuller: lolol
mircea_popescu: myeah
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.4 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.4199 BTC [+]
jurov: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131270.msg1702603#msg1702603
jurov: converted even bad news into sales pitch...
jborkl: we all knew the bot was going to beat like rodney king
MJR_III: but why did bugpowder think that would affect dividends
jborkl: just a one month deal
jborkl: sorry mp.rough month
jurov: mpex.co now looks so easily comprehensive, all options gone
MJR_III: nice
MJR_III: bitfinex sucks, they don't actually send orders out, but whatever engine they have doesn't send them out quickly enough, which partially gox's fault
MJR_III: it traded down to 87 without me getting filled
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.4 = 4 BTC [-]
jurov: 20 to 200 with step 3 planned? we'll have 244 new options then...
MJR_III: wouldn't it be 90 puts and 90 calls for each month?
jurov: no, 61 puts and 61 calls
jurov: if i'm to believe this oocalc thing
MJR_III: 180/3
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 50 @ 0.4 = 20 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 30 @ 0.4 = 12 BTC [-]
MJR_III: i thought
jurov: 180/3=60 lol
MJR_III: lol, thats why i should use gribble
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 40 @ 0.4 = 16 BTC [-]
jurov: C750 to be upgraded to C77, yum
MJR_III: looking forward to sdice financials this month
MJR_III: jurov: isn't that downgraded?
smickles: lol
MJR_III: unless you were short i suppose
jurov: you're right :)
MJR_III: but if i was long that call i would have rather gone to 74
smickles: oh, lol, that went well
smickles: BUY|O.USD.C920T|7|11344696 <<< does that look wrong to anyone :D
Diablo-D3: no because I have no clue wtf it says
jurov: that looks VERY bullish
jurov: Diablo-D3: smickles wants option to buy 7 BTC at $920 each :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.4 BTC [-]
jurov: at measly 1.134 per option
smickles: ;;calc 920/(1-.1134)
gribble: 1037.67200541
smickles: nice b/e point
Diablo-D3: jurov: I like the cut of his jib
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.4 = 0.8 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.4 = 0.8 BTC [-]
topace_: !ticker h sdice
assbot: [HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.35000000 / 0.41321889 / 0.46500000 (457 shares, 188.84103088 BTC), 7D: 0.35000000 / 0.45346676 / 0.53000000 (1701 shares, 771.34695284 BTC), 30D: 0.35000000 / 0.5143263 / 0.68950000 (6033 shares, 3102.93054732 BTC)
thestringpuller: lololq
TradeFortress: bfl asics doesn't hash lol
Diablo-D3: but I bought a bowl and everything :<
MJR_III: TradeFortress: really?
TradeFortress: MJR_III: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C4bgho5JSI
MJR_III: would it be fun to have an open cry pit for bitcoins?
MJR_III: i think it would be
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00067327 = 2.4238 BTC [+]
MJR_III: i mostly want to do it for the cool jackets...
smickles: ok, what's wrong with BUY|O.USD.C89T|7|12279228 ?
arij: what the
mircea_popescu: smickles 089
smickles: mircea_popescu: why does it show on mpex.co as C89T?
mircea_popescu: so : the mpsic change is complete. if you had N's that were realocated they should show up.
mircea_popescu: bot is quoting.
mircea_popescu: the entire thing is trading under supervision and stuff may be rolled back if there's issues.
smickles: oh, it just changed
mircea_popescu: go ahead and test.
jurov: and multiply
taub: thats a lot of options :D
mircea_popescu: :p
MJR_III: what do you think mircea_popescu, trading jackets and open cry pit?
MJR_III: plus the hand signals look cool
mircea_popescu: can't hurt.
MJR_III: its so anachronistic
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.78791 = 3.9396 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.787948 = 2.3638 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.78795 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.788 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.78895 = 7.8895 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: that was the saddest financial report ever
taub: oh sick bids @ mtgox
mircea_popescu: myeah
thestringpuller: ;;asks 94
gribble: There are currently 8425.506 bitcoins offered at or under 94.0 USD, worth 779353.416378 USD in total. | Data vintage: 72.7984 seconds
thestringpuller: ;;seen smickles
gribble: smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 14 minutes and 57 seconds ago: <smickles> oh, it just changed
Chaang-Noi: ;;bids 85
mircea_popescu: <MJR_III> it traded down to 87 without me getting filled << usually the sign of bucket shoppery.
gribble: There are currently 16363.067 bitcoins demanded at or over 85.0 USD, worth 1467808.69682 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0052 seconds
Chaang-Noi: damn that is a wall...
Chaang-Noi: ;;bids 75
gribble: There are currently 46099.881 bitcoins demanded at or over 75.0 USD, worth 3796776.10301 USD in total. | Data vintage: 26.1647 seconds
mircea_popescu: <jurov> C750 to be upgraded to C77, yum << you mean 74 ?
Chaang-Noi: 10k coins at 92
jurov: yes i stand corrected
mircea_popescu: i'll be damned... everything seems in order ?
MJR_III: here comes another spike
MJR_III: that is a huge ass wall at 92
Chaang-Noi: yes sir
Chaang-Noi: 10k
mircea_popescu: bot is quoting correctly and everything. cool beans.
MJR_III: this movie is pretty fun to watch
MJR_III: The Pit
Chaang-Noi: 10k and growin, like 13k now... bull trap maybe? get people to place bids at 92, then crash market? :)
MJR_III: i think so
MJR_III: i'm short at 92
mircea_popescu: i might have lost 15k rthis month, but on the upside who the duck else has monthly report and whole mpsic changeover in 2 hours ?
mircea_popescu: fucking worth a million and a half i tell you
MJR_III: mircea_popescu yes, nice transition
MJR_III: this is the most interesting thing about trading, is that for every trade there is someone else on the other side
MJR_III: and i think economics forgets that at times
MJR_III: and people who trade with each other a lot, its like your win can be their loss
Chaang-Noi: lift off and wall at 17k lol
MJR_III: yeah looks like we are headed to 94 for sure
taub: shh Chaang-Noi
Chaang-Noi: lol, like im going to scare the bulls :)
Chaang-Noi: we might get 100 before april after all
Chaang-Noi: ;;asks 100
gribble: There are currently 23844.076 bitcoins offered at or under 100.0 USD, worth 2309880.5722 USD in total. | Data vintage: 63.0708 seconds
Chaang-Noi: hmmm
Chaang-Noi: asic miner, too many rich holders eh? well lets wait for the 260 ghs :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2282 @ 0.00066531 = 1.5182 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6068 @ 0.00066529 = 4.037 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.USD.C098T] 230 @ 0.22099114 = 50.828 BTC
mircea_popescu: !ticker m ^oix
assbot: [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 66.95953589 / 85.06143152 / 85.06556611 (111084 shares, 22,108.25 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)
MJR_III: hi pigeons
MJR_III: hmmm
jurov: MJR_III: coinbr should be done too
MJR_III: 104 calls look nice
assbot: [MPEX] [O.USD.P050T] 8 @ 0.0157744 = 0.1262 BTC
MJR_III: jurov: have we gotten divs yet?
jurov: s.mpoe hasn't paid yet
MJR_III: ;;bc,24hprc
gribble: 89.91
mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131270.msg1558393#msg1558393
mircea_popescu: o wow look at all the detective work
jurov: oh yes, i must tell to deprived they weren't in order
MJR_III: jurov, nice avatar
MJR_III: i take it you are a recipient of the double cherry truck award?
jurov: yea, i have drawn it and awarded mpex. got 5btc in return :)
MJR_III: very nice
jurov: the contest: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122881.0
jurov: in memory of Patrick Harnett
mircea_popescu: lol yea
mircea_popescu: jurov : if you have any artist friends you can always troll them
mircea_popescu: by pointing out that they don't ger 500 bux for a vignette
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01449 BTC [+]
MJR_III: lets see that wall disappear
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0145 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.016 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.017 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.019 BTC [+]
jurov: yea. that was actually second time i won some such contest
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 11 @ 0.01966 = 0.2163 BTC [+]
MJR_III: so, did you transfer rights to the double cherry truck award to mpex, or do you retain the rights to award said trophy
mircea_popescu: i retain all rights!
mircea_popescu: and priviledges
jurov: MJR_III: i guess once btc will rise enough, i can find lawyer to pick the case pro bono
jurov: :D
jurov: ooh and also received payout, that was quick: http://bitbet.us/bet/3/mpbor-over-10-in-q1/?ref=1EteoRKNYbNhhmFfsKnUSWRF3JUpKCcMnc
MJR_III: i think that award will be worth a lot in the future...i would like to be a recipient of the double cherry truck award, but i think that the moody's triple a rating will be slightly smoky dragon
mircea_popescu: haha
mircea_popescu: i'm gonna have to come up with criteria to award these now
MJR_III: yep
jurov: and i'll be awarding ravaging mermaid
MJR_III: i do like the mermaid
MJR_III: fuck, what to watch next
jurov: kakobrekla: you should make banners with rotating bets and put them on reddit, some bet fall quickly into obscurity
jurov: especially some i'd like to bet moar
Chaang-Noi: large drama on bitcoin talk = large bets
Chaang-Noi: a company to profit off of bitcoin drama, best idea evar
jurov: Chaang-Noi: have you seen the one "bitcointalk treasurer to be scammer tagged"?
Chaang-Noi: yeah
Chaang-Noi: i expect Og to be the scammer of the group
Chaang-Noi: i forget the otehrs
Chaang-Noi: also dont forget theymos is the guy who hands out tags:)
mircea_popescu: wait. og as in, the ognasty club guy ?
Chaang-Noi: yeah, i dont trust him
pigeons: m-i-c
pigeons: k-e-y
mircea_popescu: o this can't possibly end well.
mircea_popescu: where's that bet again ?
ThickAsThieves: mp, do mpex PR lackeys get an @mpex.co email addy?
Chaang-Noi: lol
ThickAsThieves: could use email addy's as referral system
mircea_popescu: um
mircea_popescu: i'd hope they have their own email ><
mircea_popescu: o also, someone be kind enough to put march report on reddit ?
mircea_popescu: curious what the derpcrowd does
Chaang-Noi: theymos still has you banned?
mircea_popescu: um
mircea_popescu: i have no idea tbh
MJR_III: who put up that wall and to what end?
Chaang-Noi: want has btc or want has btc price move up?
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 92.52001, Best ask: 92.74995, Bid-ask spread: 0.22994, Last trade: 92.74995, 24 hour volume: 73187.25009339, 24 hour low: 85.50000, 24 hour high: 94.00000, 24 hour vwap: 90.09023
Chaang-Noi: two 1000 btc sell orders fell into it
Chaang-Noi: its a real wall
MJR_III: hmmm
MJR_III: interesting
MJR_III: well, we are digging in
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 47 @ 0.000607 = 0.0285 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.797793 = 2.3934 BTC [+]
MJR_III: ;;calc 91.77*1.2
gribble: 110.124
ThickAsThieves: ;;bids 0
gribble: There are currently 34671020 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 10482734.1184 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0176 seconds
ThickAsThieves: waitll bug sees that
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 9 @ 0.797794 = 7.1801 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: ;;asks 99.91
gribble: There are currently 18564.837 bitcoins offered at or under 99.91 USD, worth 1797672.6472 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0022 seconds
ThickAsThieves: ;;bids 85
gribble: There are currently 20005.793 bitcoins demanded at or over 85.0 USD, worth 1792948.69182 USD in total. | Data vintage: 25.0206 seconds
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.3451 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.38000001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.88 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 228740 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 1083 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 2 hours, 50 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7311735.07761 | Estimated Percent Change: 9.1984
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.8 = 3.2 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.79 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.78 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.771 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.77 = 3.85 BTC [-]
deadweasel: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 91.30001, Best ask: 91.98999, Bid-ask spread: 0.68998, Last trade: 91.30000, 24 hour volume: 68373.91210877, 24 hour low: 85.50000, 24 hour high: 94.98000, 24 hour vwap: 90.17684
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00066394 = 1.4607 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7868 @ 0.00066409 = 5.2251 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1347 @ 0.00067673 = 0.9116 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36 @ 0.00067674 = 0.0244 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.37 = 1.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 7 @ 0.1565 = 1.0955 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.8 = 1.6 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.37 = 0.74 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 10 @ 0.00158 = 0.0158 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18664 @ 0.00067674 = 12.6307 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.485 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: so it turns out strongcoin was indeed fucked.
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 20 @ 0.00399 = 0.0798 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: 13:37.17 ( idioterna ) bitstamp guy
kakobrekla: 13:37.18 ( idioterna ) http://us3.na.apcdn.com/full/98938.gif
mircea_popescu: lol
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1059 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.USD.C092T] 600 @ 0.24766633 = 148.5998 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 936 @ 0.00067685 = 0.6335 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1214 @ 0.00066805 = 0.811 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5901 @ 0.00067952 = 4.0098 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 299 @ 0.00067955 = 0.2032 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7586 @ 0.00066805 = 5.0678 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 912 @ 0.00066394 = 0.6055 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.81 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.8 = 1.6 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.485 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00067955 = 17.2606 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 22 @ 0.8 = 17.6 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.37 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] [PAID] 196.89044015 BTC to 500`000`000 shares, 39 satoshi per share
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.37 = 0.74 BTC [+]
greenglue: Hello!
greenglue: is there any sort of stock market for BTC? other than MPEx which costs 30BTC to join
ThickAsThieves: there a several
ThickAsThieves: sec
greenglue: such as...
greenglue: ok thanks!
ThickAsThieves: www.bitfunder.com
ThickAsThieves: www.btct.co
ThickAsThieves: www.litecoinglobal.com
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00067953 = 3.3977 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37 @ 0.00067955 = 0.0251 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2863 @ 0.00067955 = 1.9456 BTC [+]
greenglue: do you use either one?
ThickAsThieves: https://coinbr.com/ref?c=Q9gPSuUvYS
ThickAsThieves: i use all of them
ThickAsThieves: coinbr us actually a window into mpex
ThickAsThieves: with lower more spread out fees
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.007701 BTC [-]
greenglue: really? sounds interesting
greenglue: so coiner is the best?
ThickAsThieves: there is no best
ThickAsThieves: but coinbr is the most affordable way to do mpex
ThickAsThieves: unless you are a big player
greenglue: so the others have fees as well?
ThickAsThieves: no hard fees
ThickAsThieves: only transactional fees
ThickAsThieves: which all exchanges have
greenglue: yea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2050 @ 0.00067955 = 1.3931 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.4999 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: wtb 5000+ SDICE pm if you have fair price (below current market asks)
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.0041 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 399 @ 0.0041 = 1.6359 BTC [+]
pgp: question: MPEX support a socket based implementation for requesting trades from a certain seq number forward. Why isn't there something like that for quotes?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.41499999 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves why not just put a bid ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 25 @ 0.00409 = 0.1023 BTC [-]
taub: hm, maybe there wont be a big second downmove from here
ThickAsThieves: i have bids up, was just fishing to see if there were any sellers inside the spread that dont have asks up
ThickAsThieves: it's all in bugpowder's pocket probly
Bugpowder: Jesus
Bugpowder: The market making not
Bugpowder: Not
Bugpowder: Bot
Bugpowder: Yes
Bugpowder: Historically it averages 12% return on notional exposure a month
Bugpowder: But the variance is... High.
ThickAsThieves: ihave to imagine the bot algo has been tightened, or?
Bugpowder: It does do explicit hedging
Bugpowder: Mostly mircera
Bugpowder: It's all in the financial statement
Bugpowder: Read it
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.8 = 1.6 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: STOP
ThickAsThieves: fucking idiot
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.39999999 BTC [-]
OneMiner: +b PsychoticBoy
TomServo: ^
ThickAsThieves: ^
Bugpowder: This was always possible, very clearly so
ThickAsThieves: you dont have the right to spam
ThickAsThieves: just ask your questions cleanly
ThickAsThieves: and wait for answers
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.4 BTC [+]
Bugpowder: Based on August results
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 7 @ 0.106 = 0.742 BTC [+]
OneMiner: There's no doubt that this is self aggrandizing trolling. If what you are saying is the truth or not you're trying to make yourself the center of attention. Knock it off.
Bugpowder: Actual losses of principal were 19k of which mircrea provided 75% of
OneMiner: Ya, just wanted to pass into. Like everything you've said about it and how your opinion matters so much. Don't flood.
Bugpowder: That is not true
Bugpowder: Look at past statements
ThickAsThieves: my only question is, has the bot algo been adjusted to mitigate this exposure in the future
Bugpowder: Mpex is a sideshow
ThickAsThieves: or is this just how it is
Bugpowder: Mpoe is the real profit engine
ThickAsThieves: Pycho, you only lost a few hundred bux
ThickAsThieves: cheap lesson
Bugpowder: Well considering the max bond exposure is always less than the total capital, indefinitely.
Bugpowder: Although the bot liquidity might go bye bye
ThickAsThieves: i lost some too
ThickAsThieves: i blame me
Bugpowder: I wish I had all the gains.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.4 = 1.6 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: but if MP lost that much covering the bonds, I'd like to hear if changes have been made to mitigate
Bugpowder: Yeah, extremely well
ThickAsThieves: Bug who are you talking to, i must have them on ignore
Bugpowder: Lol
Bugpowder: Anyway, if you dont understand the risks of being a bond holder, you should probably go back to the gloves kiddy pool
Bugpowder: Glbse
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 9 @ 0.00409 = 0.0368 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: unignoring tiberius :(
ThickAsThieves: ola
Bugpowder: Anyway, have a wonderful weekend.
Bugpowder: Because he didn't understand the real risks
ThickAsThieves: MPs losses are a small portion of his assets, but I have to assume he will asjust exposure of the bot after this, no?
Bugpowder: Mpoe bonds never seemed like a good value prop To me.
ThickAsThieves: what does sdice have to do with this
Bugpowder: Sdice has made
Bugpowder: 70k
ThickAsThieves: so
ThickAsThieves: i thought you were chiding MP, not Erik
ThickAsThieves: right, so rather than litter this chan with bitching, I'm just asking what I think is a sensible question,
ThickAsThieves: will he protect the bot better
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> my only question is, has the bot algo been adjusted to mitigate this exposure in the future << no.
mircea_popescu: bot hasn't been altered fundamentally since 2011
ThickAsThieves: thank you
Bugpowder: I'm sure u could tweak the ago
ThickAsThieves: MP, so you'll continue to take on the majority liability of the bot?
Bugpowder: Ago
Bugpowder: Algo
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder the issue is that people make assumption based on the algo as is
mircea_popescu: any tweak is fundamentally market intervention
mircea_popescu: the correct fix is for bond ppl to set appropriatge interests
mircea_popescu: not for me to dick around in the fabric of the universe.
ThickAsThieves: but the sustainability of your setup is in danger if price continues to move violently
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i've always backstopped the bot, since day one.
mircea_popescu: if not enough bonds sell i'm covering.
ZedsterX: lol
ThickAsThieves: i'm about to put you two back on ignore fml
ThickAsThieves: Psycho, tib, grow up plz
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder anyway, the variance would be fucking high. +400% a month fml.
Bugpowder: Yah
OneMiner: Why is the whole internet a troll magnet? Be respectful, please.
mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/embed/LJP1DphOWPs << this guy...
Bugpowder: And for me, if I don't see what I consider to be mispriced options, I'm not going to buy them
OneMiner: Just don't be rude about it. There's no reason to be a jerk.
ThickAsThieves: no, THIS guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTwQXpGtTyE
Bugpowder: Where is the fraud here?
OneMiner: Cool, say it once and be done.
Bugpowder: Not seeing it. I'm seeing clear contracts traded and honored
ZedsterX: can't we all just be freinds
ThickAsThieves: i dont see any fraud either
Bugpowder: What about covered exposure are you pretending you don't understand?
OneMiner: I personally don't know and don't hold any of this asset. But I'm being prevented from listening to any intelligent talk about the issue by trolling.Wether you think you are justified or not.
Bugpowder: You are clearly
assbot: [MPEX] [O.USD.C092T] 575 @ 0.24943748 = 143.4266 BTC [+]
Bugpowder: Heheh
Bugpowder: More options!!!
Bugpowder: Moar
mircea_popescu: fucking hell am i going to be paying .6 btc worth 200 each on these ?
mircea_popescu: i tell you, running the options book is the worst fucking racket there is. when you get no trade you're depressed, when you do get trade you're worried.
OneMiner: Oh lord. +b tiberiusiv He's just repeating himself over and over.
OneMiner: It's a slow flood.
mircea_popescu: OneMiner prolly ignore works better than banning people.
OneMiner: *sigh*
OneMiner: Ignore is confusing. Can't tell who is talking to who.
mircea_popescu: this is true.
ThickAsThieves: ignore doesnt work when people keep feeding the troll
mircea_popescu: it DOES make unignored people look like muppets when they're in effect talking to themselves lol
ThickAsThieves: tib has been polluting this channel all week
Bugpowder: Ciuciu is back! I thought he was gone after robbing everyone
ThickAsThieves: and was already banned once
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder girl said he was there to warn everyone about her shirt
ThickAsThieves: quit with the gypsy shit
thestrin1puller: !ticker m S.MPOE
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00066393 / 0.00067378 / 0.00068314 (591559 shares, 398.58 BTC), 7D: 0.0006 / 0.00066121 / 0.00071369 (2268750 shares, 1,500.12 BTC), 30D: 0.0006 / 0.00073136 / 0.00078628 (17700228 shares, 12,945.38 BTC)
thestrin1puller: oh nice
mircea_popescu: wait it went up ?
Bugpowder: Up Pre report
thestrin1puller: yea
assbot: [MPEX] [O.USD.C089T] 120 @ 0.26539875 = 31.8479 BTC
Bugpowder: Not much action since?
mircea_popescu: kinda incredible
thestrin1puller: there is a 29k loss for bondholders, maybe bondholders aren't mpoe holders
mircea_popescu: then again... i guess i can see it. shareholders don't care, not their skin. made a 39 per which is not really much lower than usual
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller they are lol. i hold most of mpoe and held most of the bond book >.<
thestrin1puller: mircea_popescu: what's the plan to bring MPOE bot to MPOE bot 2.0
ThickAsThieves: how are bonds purchased, other than thrue the coinbr bitfunder assets?
ThickAsThieves: through*
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you send no less than 100 btc to 1JPvucRfu3ZzEvfBUQTJwsxMrZjeTqD6zR ending in 888 (so like 100.00000888) after you've emailed me stating your beneficiary addy and desired %
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller what'd 2.0 be like ?
thestrin1puller: dunno, seems the bot has trouble with times of extreme volatility
thestrin1puller: except for Feb
mircea_popescu: listen, there's no way to make a bot so you always win.
mircea_popescu: sometimes you'll take a beating.
ThickAsThieves: sensible, but it seems odd to be THAT exposed in the algo
mircea_popescu: but this is what it does. mpoe bot is in the market of buying exposure.
mircea_popescu: so other people can sell their exposure and increase their safety.
mircea_popescu: for this service it charges.
ThickAsThieves: or pays
ThickAsThieves: :)
mircea_popescu: it's sort of like insurance, if you will. you pay a little every month
mircea_popescu: when a hurricane hits the insurer pays through the teeth.
thestrin1puller: how do bondholers then hedge their risk?
thestrin1puller: bondholders*
ThickAsThieves: buying options
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller well they don't really. the idea is they're taking on risk for a high %
mircea_popescu: mpoe-bonds are pretty much the highest reward / highest risk actgion in btc.
mircea_popescu: by a wide margin, with a lot of depth etc.
ThickAsThieves: the history of gained % seems a bit disproportionate to the risk
mircea_popescu: if that's true then bondholders have been mispricing their %
ThickAsThieves: you are learget bondholder
ThickAsThieves: largest*
thestrin1puller: as a last resort though
ThickAsThieves: right?
ThickAsThieves: i see
mircea_popescu: well ya on this month. i rarely participate in the actual market.
mircea_popescu: as in, i don't set a %, i just take whatever the max was
asciilifeform: question: wtf do gypsies have to do with all of this?
thestrin1puller: ...
ThickAsThieves: thats not a question
ThickAsThieves: its a troll
DeaDTerra: WTS GSDPT shares and BTCQuick shares :)
thestrin1puller: mircea_popescu: why not create a war chest? For times like thse.
thestrin1puller: these*
mircea_popescu: what's a warchest ?
ThickAsThieves: a reserve
thestrin1puller: is it unnecessary or what...?
mircea_popescu: well, imo it would just muddy the waters.
thestrin1puller: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/03/29/digital-currency-bitcoin-surpasses-20-national-currencies-in-value/ - lol fox news
mircea_popescu: atm mpoe is a 0 capital venture, which is a good thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9014 @ 0.00067281 = 6.0647 BTC [-]
thestrin1puller: I've used the same model for some of my real life ventures, it's a very good model in that you view capital as "equipment"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.48 = 4.8 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 6 @ 0.4994 = 2.9964 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 12 @ 0.4995 = 5.994 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 72 @ 0.4999 = 35.9928 BTC [+]
thestrin1puller: however it's the riskiness involved in "borrowing" the capital (can it be paid back /w interest)
Scrat: the trolling potential of this channel is quite high. how could I miss this
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.41499998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.41499999 BTC [+]
thestrin1puller: trolls with no money have no purpose :P
thestrin1puller: !ticker h HIM
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.88000000 / 1.89 / 1.89500000 (3 shares, 5.67000000 BTC), 7D: 1.41000000 / 1.72614891 / 2.00000000 (182 shares, 314.15910103 BTC), 30D: 1.40000000 / 1.82208764 / 17.25000000 (716 shares, 1304.61475269 BTC)
taub: I guess I can now go to my grave having contributed ~15k BTC of my own to the stabilisation of BTC <- was that big push you yesterday? :>
mircea_popescu: <Bugpowder> Mpex is a sideshow <<< if it weren't for mpex there'd have been no divs this month at all.
Bugpowder: In terms of the main profit engine
Bugpowder: Mpoe has provided most of the returns and volatility
Bugpowder: Mpex is a steady stream
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 1.93 = 9.65 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: yeah
mircea_popescu: just like a successful marriage.
mircea_popescu: mpex makes sure there's warm server soup on the table.
benkay: isn't that what the help is for?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.198 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: taub how you mean ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.41499998 = 0.83 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.41499998 = 1.66 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 24 @ 0.37 = 8.88 BTC [+]
taub: yesterday on mygox there suddenly was 15k on the bid
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7701 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.7701 = 1.5402 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.77 = 1.54 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7653 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.7605 = 4.563 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.7603 = 6.0824 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: nah, that was about the options coverage.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.7602 = 7.602 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.75 = 1.5 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.75 = 4.5 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.75 = 3 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 38 @ 0.74 = 28.12 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 5 @ 0.38 = 1.9 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.1999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.41499998 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 48 @ 0.00409 = 0.1963 BTC [-]
taub: but mpex either needs more horrible traders
taub: or you could start hedging your options
taub: to bring down that big variance...
taub: you're basically operating a bucket shop
taub: but not enough suckers
taub: who lose on their options
mircea_popescu: i don't follow your logic.
mircea_popescu: how is it a bucket shop ?
taub: because you take the other side of each trade, if traders only win against you then you lose money
mircea_popescu: that;'s not what a bucket shop is.
taub: in forex i thought it was, a broker taht assumes most of their customers are gonna lose money
mircea_popescu: but anyway : mpoe can't hedge. what it does is it allows others to hedge against it.
mircea_popescu: let me find you the relevant article.
mircea_popescu: http://mpex.co/faq.html#27 and next 2
benkay: would you elaborate on what a bucket shop is and why MPEx is not that?
taub: the exchange i solid
taub: the option bot is the worrysome part
taub: *is solid
benkay: i also do not understand the option bot's behavior.
taub: mircea_popescu: if the underlying volume and depth cant support your options you shouldnt be offering them like that maybe ;)
jurov: lol all the hate. inbetween, coinbr got possibly most deposits in one day in few hrs i was afk
benkay: or its role. mircea_popescu, would you elaborate on the bot's role?
jurov: this month
mircea_popescu: ok let's see.
jurov: they will be processed shortly
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 20 @ 0.4999 = 9.998 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: a bucket shop is a currently illegal, historically popular venue to take side bets on stocks.
jurov: as well as mpoe dividend
mircea_popescu: the operator would offer very high margin and trade with low net worth parties who couldn't participate in the real marketsd.
mircea_popescu: mpex does offer stocks, but that's not under discussion here. as for the derivative trade, ie options, these are a different market from the underlying.
taub: most forex brokers still operate like that
mircea_popescu: so does that clarify the difference ?
benkay: yes, that makes sense. and the bot?
mircea_popescu: okay. the bot itself is a primary seller of safety in btc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10143 @ 0.00067879 = 6.885 BTC [+]
benkay: I don't understand the phrase "seller of safety in btc".
mircea_popescu: this is what it does. if i go buy safety somewhere else then i'm no longer PROVIDING it
mircea_popescu: i'm just flipping it.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.41499999 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: benkay take the insurance example, because it is really very apt.
mircea_popescu: if there's a flood plain and farmers work that plain,
mircea_popescu: it would be beneficial for them to buy flood insurance.
mircea_popescu: the only way to actually underwrite this is to have a lot of money, sign insurance policies with the farmers.
taub: i dont think thats how real option issuer work tho
mircea_popescu: when floods hit you pay.
taub: you got the cpital
taub: why not hedge
mircea_popescu: the alternative would be to simply re-buy insurance somewhere else. but this isn't underwriting, this is simply trading.
mircea_popescu: i'm not trading volatility, i'm actually providing the hedge endpoint.
mircea_popescu: or if you prefer the example of the internet : second, third and higher tier providers BUY bandwidth.
mircea_popescu: but the 1st level providers don't buy it, cause there's nobody to buy it from
mircea_popescu: they just swap it.
mircea_popescu: or in other words "create" it.
mircea_popescu: taub cause there's nobody to hedge against.
mircea_popescu: the moment i go in the market to hedge i'm basically releasing all the risk out there. this isn't waht mpoe does. mpoe just soaks up the risk.
thestrin1puller: doesn't i say that in your faq?
thestrin1puller: http://mpex.co/faq.html#27 http://mpex.co/faq.html#28
benkay: thanks mp, i understand the mechanism a little better now. what I still don't understand is what the MPOE bot is up to.
thestrin1puller: "You can't pull yourself up by your breeches and for the very same reason you can't have everybody in the market hedge. Someone needs to provide the support everyone else relies on to hedge. I'm that someone." - MP
benkay: we are engaging in a discussion of this topic, yes
mircea_popescu: benkay up to as in how you mean ?
benkay: no as in like wtf is it actually doing
mircea_popescu: it makes bids and asks for the options.
benkay: how does it decide where to place its bids?
mircea_popescu: that's proprietary. it has an algo.
benkay: so it behaves as just another trader?
mircea_popescu: pretty much yea
benkay: providing liquidity to the market?
thestrin1puller: why isn't the bot quoting right now?
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller isnt it ?
mircea_popescu: benkay yep
thestrin1puller: nvm it's back up
thestrin1puller: site was lying to me
thestrin1puller: !ticker m ^OIX
assbot: [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 55.14018691 / 85.06423935 / 85.06556611 (111010 shares, 22,104.19 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)
mircea_popescu: oix is fucked because of the mpsic change
thestrin1puller: oh
mircea_popescu: it will make sense again in about a week.
taub: they are binary options yea? dont think i quite understand their pricing from 0 to 1
thestrin1puller: all the way up to 200 I see :)
mircea_popescu: taub not binary. american style btc settled.
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller ya, there's a notice.
benkay: what exchange-proprietary information does the bot get access to?
mircea_popescu: none.
benkay: obviously you have to say that.
mircea_popescu: all it sees is the btc/usd history
mircea_popescu: which is public
thestrin1puller: am I the only one who feels bad for this month's bond holders?
bitesak: thanks mp for the service you provide;
jurov: mircea_popescu: exercises are not public
mircea_popescu: bitesak i'd normally say my pleasure... but this month was a little rough.
mircea_popescu: jurov the bot doesn't see exercises tho
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller no, i feel bad for them too.
thestrin1puller: I guess we can't always have months like Jan
bitesak: do you adjust the algo going forward to take into consideration what causes big losses?
mircea_popescu: nope.
jurov: no replies on btctalk so far... but we'll see when ppl come to bitfunder to receive only 0.081 pre share
mircea_popescu: jurov scam
thestrin1puller: what was the % loss for the PT jurov ?
thestrin1puller: 40?
jurov: wat?
mircea_popescu: like 25% i'd expect
jurov: it's 1:1 to MPOE
mircea_popescu: 23
jurov: yes
thestrin1puller: "All complaints of bondholder loss should be directed to Bugpowder who now holds your money"
mircea_popescu: ahahaha
thestrin1puller: :D
jurov: heh, i made some myself, tooo
mircea_popescu: do you even know that ? lol
mircea_popescu: maybe he's just talkin'.
mircea_popescu: poor guy lol. one day he's claiming market success like what... 99% of all internet ppl in financial rooms
mircea_popescu: the next they ANGRY MOB WITH PITCHFORKS
thestrin1puller: Maybe he'll start a company to benefit bitcoin (yay optimism LOL)
jurov: he;'ll benefit tesla motors
thestrin1puller: tiberiusiv: option writers make the most money when there is no volatility in the underlying security
thestrin1puller: so overtime MPOE will be profitable to bondholers
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.41499998 = 1.245 BTC [-]
thestrin1puller: !ticker m S.DICE
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00337335 / 0.00368422 / 0.0039999 (14099 shares, 51.94 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.00338624 / 0.0045 (675573 shares, 2,287.66 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00449093 / 0.00637777 (1675373 shares, 7,524.00 BTC)
jurov: thestrin1puller: he knows everything, no need to explain anything to him. and ofc, thars NO LIQUIDITY
jurov: NO POK
mircea_popescu: at all ?!
thestrin1puller: Not sure if tiberiusiv is serious, or just trolling.
thestrin1puller: Up until this month MPOE bonds were profitable long term (all profits + all losses > 0)
jurov: tiberiusiv: ofc, if mp goes out of money he stops sellin options. happened before already
thestrin1puller: I know they are, this month they are, just like an insurance company loses money during a natural disaster...
jurov: tiberiusiv: those who profited by buying calls see the credibility soar :)
thestrin1puller: insurance companies also have reserves they invest to hedge that risk...
thestrin1puller: that's not up to mircea_popescu it's up to his bondholders
thestrin1puller: i feel like you aren't listening
thestrin1puller: insurance companies make losses all the time...
benkay: that's an expansive claim.
thestrin1puller: this is where he lists of AIG among others
thestrin1puller: BOOYA
thestrin1puller: I'm so predictive
thestrin1puller: no he's not
thestrin1puller: you keep saying that like it's fact
thestrin1puller: this is one exception!
thestrin1puller: 1 month != all months
benkay: what sheet, tiberiusiv?
thestrin1puller: That made me LOL
jurov: tiberiusiv: there's mircea's private activities like MPHF
bitesak: mphf?
jurov: = shorting GLBSEsque assets
thestrin1puller: tiberiusiv: why are you making claims with out evidence
thestrin1puller: mircea_popescu: are ALL your financials public knowledge? lets clear this up
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller no. i paid twennyfive dollars for a girls pair of stockings out of pocket yesterday.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean "all your financials" ?!
KRS1: lol
benkay: one could ask
benkay: hey mircea
benkay: how many months of 15k losses can MPEx/Mircea Popescu sustain?
thestrin1puller: mircea_popescu: it seems tiberiusiv knows your financials because they are all public
mircea_popescu: um
jurov: thestrin1puller i told ya, he knows everything
mircea_popescu: do you mean polimedia srl ?
benkay: i suppose. does polimedia srl's corporate structure provide for funding MPEx?
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: it's a romanian-based llc (srl in romanian) that i own ~99% of
benkay: then, how many months of 15kbtc losses can the exchange sustain?
mircea_popescu: at least a year.
thestrin1puller: mircea_popescu you make a bunch of people rich this month, and people still complain...
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller ya well, the thing is this : mpoe and mpex are VERY complex, well thought out intricately designed gems.
mircea_popescu: "people" have been busily ignoring it for the past year or two
mircea_popescu: meanwhile it's been taking over.
mircea_popescu: now "people" are confronted with the rude awakening of reality. kinda bound to be a little thrashing about.
thestrin1puller: ;;bc,24hprc
gribble: Error: "bc,24hprc" is not a valid command.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.792 = 3.168 BTC [+]
thestrin1puller: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 90.49001, Best ask: 90.50000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00999, Last trade: 90.50000, 24 hour volume: 51005.98011536, 24 hour low: 85.50000, 24 hour high: 94.98000, 24 hour vwap: 90.64316
bitesak: Roumania is taking Europe over__
benkay: ooh. what's the difference between MPOE and MPEx?
jurov: MPOE is the options trades, MPEx is the exchange
thestrin1puller: Hmm. mircea_popescu could one externally hedge risks of being a bondholder with other investments no?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 7 @ 1.198 = 8.386 BTC [-]
jurov: thestrin1puller hedge them by buying options :D
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller like how ?
mircea_popescu: bitesak lol considering the state of finances everywhere in europe vs romania... that's not quite so far off.
thestrin1puller: mircea_popescu: for instance I put x BTC in Bonds during a bad month, but some other investment say, S.DICE growth, effectively neutralizes my bond losses
mircea_popescu: yeah, but these aren't related
thestrin1puller: i know but I'm saying diversification is one solution no?
mircea_popescu: to hedge you would need things which for good reason move in opposing directions.
mircea_popescu: diversification certainly is a solution, yes.
jurov: thestrin1puller: BTC growth itself effectively neutralized your bond losses, don't forget
mircea_popescu: if you have 105 btc and put 100 btc into mpoe bonds expect a wild ride.
mircea_popescu: jurov that is a point, in fiat terms the bondholders made money :D
mircea_popescu: actually... this is interesting. from a purely fiat perspective mpoe bonds may be one of the best btc-investments you can make.
thestrin1puller: unless you have an august month
bitesak: I have been saying that for sometime in Switzerland :)
thestrin1puller: That was just...
thestrin1puller: August was terrible
mircea_popescu: yeah.
jurov: tiberiusiv, you forget there's someone who actually sees your portfolio and call you on your BS
jurov: and sdice?
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller thinking more about your question : it would seem to me there is some relation here:
mircea_popescu: MPOE bonds make money on calm fx market, lose money on volatility.
mircea_popescu: places like mtgox make money on volatility
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1750 @ 0.0039999 = 6.9998 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: so maybe the best play is a weighted binary portofolio, bonds and mtgox shares
mircea_popescu: it's moot practically as they're not listed, but since we're discussing theory.
jurov: and options
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah, you could be trading options too
taub: mtgox makes money on volume, not volatility
mircea_popescu: taub those'd be related tho
taub: they dont have to
mircea_popescu: also true
jurov: tiberiusiv, i actually did it once when everyone was like "half reward is coming, brace ur"
jurov: i did a split, sold both puts and calls
jurov: and indeed nothing happened then
mircea_popescu: lol
jurov: but won't dare to repeat it
ThickAsThieves: mp, obv you should be hedging using litecoin
ThickAsThieves: :)
taub: who was pirate
mircea_popescu: i guess btc is still very much a contrarian market. whatever the public consensus is, it's prolly wrong.
mircea_popescu: taub http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/
mircea_popescu: good start point for the history of btc financials.
mircea_popescu: (not implying pirate was such a thing)
mircea_popescu: hey, who here was from slovenia ?
jurov: that kakobrekla fella
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla what's it like there ? i can't make sense of all the bs i'm reading.
kakobrekla: about what
jurov: about impending doom
kakobrekla: fyi italy is in yurop and you worry bout slovenia?
jurov: slovenia to sunk into adriatic, austrians want some coastline :D
mircea_popescu: is maribor going under ?
kakobrekla: i dont think so
thestrin1puller: S.DICE should be skyrocketing
thestrin1puller: !ticker m S.DICE
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00337335 / 0.00371908 / 0.0039999 (15849 shares, 58.94 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.00338783 / 0.0045 (677323 shares, 2,294.66 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00449042 / 0.00637777 (1677123 shares, 7,531.00 BTC)
kakobrekla: why again?
thestrin1puller: Based on the rise in PT prices
thestrin1puller: the original source is still a few % lower than PT price
ThickAsThieves: temporal
brianethier_: With a lot of headecks, we managed to put together another site from wich you can buy Amazon Gift Cards with Bitcoins. You no longer need an account, it’s much simpler to use now. We received a lot of complaints that user accounts are not necessary so we removed them. We are still a bit rugged, but donations are open so you can donate (if you want to) so we can improve the site. The new site is at: http://amazonbitco
thestrin1puller: mircea_popescu: it seems you win again ;) I would say, all and all for a month that is a beating, you have come out relatively unscathed...
ThickAsThieves: fail spam
mircea_popescu: lol wtf is with people.
mircea_popescu: why can't he participate in the chan like normal human beings.
jurov: what are headecks?
jurov: something like tinfoil hats, just for stupidity?
ThickAsThieves: landing pads for space cadets
ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101902.msg1705462#msg1705462
ThickAsThieves: hints of hints of news
jurov: his previous post is also interesting
jurov: not US resident anymore
ThickAsThieves: yep
ThickAsThieves: although i think that has been a rumour for a bit
KRS1: <tiberiusiv> and it will be even harder now
KRS1: <tiberiusiv> with BTC deflation
KRS1: I thought BTC wont go through deflation period until almost mined up
KRS1: maybe i dont understand the context..but..
KRS1: from what I understand about economics, like inflation deflation is not necessarily good
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/options-and-leverage-a-case-study/
mircea_popescu: just calculated the implicit leverage for march.
mircea_popescu: 5.02x
KRS1: so this is a good case of deflation
KRS1: ok
ThickAsThieves: alternative idea for channel bannings: offer ignore bounties, pay .001 to anyone that ignored the desired person, if you are caught responding to that troll you pay .1 penalty, profits go to assbot dev
mircea_popescu: KRS1 bitcoin inflation is about 8% pa atm
ThickAsThieves: sorta like a swear jar?
KRS1: How do you get that figure mircea popescu
KRS1: thats low as far as im understanding it and not bad either
mircea_popescu: KRS1 25 btc x 6 blocks x 24 hours in a day
mircea_popescu: compare to the total btc in circulation
KRS1: ic
mircea_popescu: annualize somehow
KRS1: these are all good indicators i think
mircea_popescu: (the exact way is left as an exercise to the user, seeing how depending on how you do it you get diff results)
KRS1: ok thank you guys-
jurov: CoinBr.MPBPT-O paid out, 0.07679501 BTC per share (nominal value 0.1 BTC)
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.795 = 1.59 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.7999 = 3.1996 BTC [+]
bitesak: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 90.80001, Best ask: 90.98999, Bid-ask spread: 0.18998, Last trade: 90.98999, 24 hour volume: 49893.62640319, 24 hour low: 85.50000, 24 hour high: 94.98000, 24 hour vwap: 90.70184
Diablo-D3: still not 100
toffoo: prolly not going to be over easter holiday weekend
toffoo: gotta wait for the snail banks to open again to get more fresh buying funds into the market
mircea_popescu: that's a point
ThickAsThieves: surpised it's not moving down really
ThickAsThieves: ;;bids 85
gribble: There are currently 16264.821 bitcoins demanded at or over 85.0 USD, worth 1422076.42737 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0064 seconds
toffoo: looks like maybe litecoin is the one that's rockin to new highs these days
ThickAsThieves: ;;bids 88
gribble: There are currently 6698.9219 bitcoins demanded at or over 88.0 USD, worth 596157.374234 USD in total. | Data vintage: 5.3952 seconds
ThickAsThieves: ;;asks 96
gribble: There are currently 11822.091 bitcoins offered at or under 96.0 USD, worth 1113104.50621 USD in total. | Data vintage: 21.2181 seconds
ThickAsThieves: ;;asks 93
gribble: There are currently 3311.6116 bitcoins offered at or under 93.0 USD, worth 306592.030934 USD in total. | Data vintage: 33.4255 seconds
ThickAsThieves: heh
toffoo: maybe litecoin will cross $1 before bitcoin crosses $100
ThickAsThieves: maybe
mircea_popescu: i fail to grok how litecoin can be worth 1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 971 @ 0.00067327 = 0.6537 BTC [-]
toffoo: well it's worth $0.81 right now ...
toffoo: i'd managed to ignore it all all other *coins until now,
toffoo: but this month it has gotten my attention
ThickAsThieves: all in all I'd have been better off not dabbling in LTC at all, other than that it introduced me to Deprived, who's pretty interesting
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.94999999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 1.97999999 = 3.96 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.98 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.99999999 BTC [+]
thestrin1puller: OH SNAP HIM
thestrin1puller: I KNEW IT
kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves why would you be better off
thestrin1puller: MWAHAHAHAHA
mircea_popescu: i bought some on like the 5th
mircea_popescu: but then sold it off. apparently i sold too soon
mircea_popescu: but srsly wtf.
kakobrekla: yeah i played the game too
kakobrekla: made 100% in 3 days or so and never looked back
mircea_popescu: yeah. something of the sort.
mircea_popescu: but i certainly didn't get out at the top. wtf lol
toffoo: well, my investment thesis is something like the following:
kakobrekla: i was riding 0.07 to 0.15
toffoo: i've always followed pretty closely the effect of difficulty on bitcoin prices,
toffoo: and now with ASICs moving that to the moon,
taub: hah
toffoo: the feeling is that a lot of the GPU mining farms will drop out and start mining litecoin,
mircea_popescu: toffoo so ?
toffoo: which will cause it's difficulty to start rising,
kakobrekla: it still is useless
toffoo: which it has,
toffoo: and therefore market prices are following
kakobrekla: well you can invest in eskimo bobs ART and thats about it
mircea_popescu: hum
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla o totally forgot. how's the clay business i wonder
kakobrekla: hes gonna be klin millioanare
toffoo: try to find a chart of litecoin difficulty the past few weeks
mircea_popescu: you mean klim ?
ThickAsThieves: basically, i started to learn the price manipulation patterns in BTC-e for LTC,
ThickAsThieves: and joined them
ThickAsThieves: did fine
ThickAsThieves: then BTC blew up a bajillion % higher
ThickAsThieves: and i was holding the bag
mircea_popescu: aww
mircea_popescu: i'd kinda short ltc at 1 dollar each
ThickAsThieves: about a 12btc haircut for me that day
kakobrekla: i ment kiln
kakobrekla: for pottery?
kakobrekla: nvm
mircea_popescu: lolk
ThickAsThieves: but i covered a bit by sniping underpriced assets at ltcglobal
ThickAsThieves: i even got props from Deprived for a couple of my moves :)
mircea_popescu: haha cool
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 430 @ 0.003512 = 1.5102 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you know in retrospect... that s.dice ipo price was judicious
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00066871 = 2.0061 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 36 @ 0.005455 = 0.1964 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: wait what ?!
mircea_popescu: !ticker btctc s.dice-pt
assbot: [BTCT:S.DICE-PT] 1D: 0.00459 / 0.00521 / 0.005455 (81 shares, 0.4 BTC), 7D: 0.00366 / 0.00452 / 0.0055 (4499 shares, 20.3 BTC), 30D: 0.00361 / 0.00525 / 0.00643 (30048 shares, 157.8 BTC)
mircea_popescu: there's a 70% gap ?!
jurov: but whole order book is 13btc bids, 18btc asks... not worth bugging deadterra about
ThickAsThieves: thats Nam's
ThickAsThieves: not DT's
ThickAsThieves: oh
ThickAsThieves: nvm
ThickAsThieves: you meant to arb
ThickAsThieves: no
jurov: haha i see now... and GSDPT is copletely elsewhere
mircea_popescu: 70% of 13 btc is like 100 bux lol
jurov: the same exchange, yet one would need to engage two ops to arbitrage
mircea_popescu: 1000
jurov: why they just can't list one pt together
ThickAsThieves: i like multiple
jurov: why?
jurov: for lulz?
mircea_popescu: somebody should plot the various pt price vs mpex one day
mircea_popescu: it'd make one hell of a grap
ThickAsThieves: well in the case of Nam's
ThickAsThieves: it's not successful enough
ThickAsThieves: to provide a lot of arb
ThickAsThieves: but in the end there has alway been variance between each PT
ThickAsThieves: enough to arb
ThickAsThieves: i'm sold out of Nam's though
ThickAsThieves: because it got a premium
ThickAsThieves: from low uptake
ThickAsThieves: now not enough people in it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2239 @ 0.00066871 = 1.4972 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4122 @ 0.00066869 = 2.7563 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 239 @ 0.00066868 = 0.1598 BTC [-]
fdas: toffoo, I have reasoned the same about LTC
thestrin1puller: http://bitcoinity.org/assets/fail.jpg YES!
jurov: have you looked to past performance? not every month is his exposure needed.
jurov: and if btc goes up twice again next month, some 20% loss wouldn't be so tragic
jurov: well. so there will be no options. that is the point.
jurov: happened already, no prob
ThickAsThieves: ;;bids 0
gribble: There are currently 34833411 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 10285047.2026 USD in total. | Data vintage: 55.2628 seconds
thestrin1puller: That's more bitcoins than exist...
thestrin1puller: LOL
thestrin1puller: tiberiusiv: is an irate bondholder!
thestrin1puller: pleaes direct all complaints to Bugpowder
thestrin1puller: and you are?
thestrin1puller: SO MR. tiberiusiv you know everything?
thestrin1puller: you know what the Oracle says about men who say they know everything
thestrin1puller: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
thestrin1puller: they are
thestrin1puller: You don't read enough.
benkay: what would your preferred implementation be, tiberiusiv?
ThickAsThieves: tib, by selling bonds he's already letting people underwrite the options
ThickAsThieves: he's considers it an investment
ThickAsThieves: he
ThickAsThieves: you dont think that him losing XXXXX btc is a test of his risk management?
ThickAsThieves: he's not betting
ThickAsThieves: maybe he's trying to create a market
ThickAsThieves: of a new order of magnitude in size
ThickAsThieves: he spends 15k today, maybe makes 150k next year
ThickAsThieves: i'm done, you can beat on him all you want
ThickAsThieves: he has plenty
ThickAsThieves: to risk this investment
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17450 @ 0.00066868 = 11.6685 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: sry tib, gotta turn you off for a while
jurov: lol that's just some assertions, not truth
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00323 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 282 @ 0.00323 = 0.9109 BTC [-]
jurov: obv if you come to btc in a "i know shit" fashion you'll get burned
jurov: i started trying options only after few months observations, went off well enough so far
jurov: no, you're not payng attention, i do. with iDiffs.
jurov: adn i do write mpoe options occassionally, too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00067326 = 3.3663 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11529 @ 0.00067327 = 7.7621 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 543 @ 0.00067469 = 0.3664 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: wtf is ThickAsThieves even talking about
jurov: Diablo-D3: perhaps you ignore tibby?
Diablo-D3: I do
Diablo-D3: the guy is a nutjob
jurov: so, thick was chatting with him
jurov: sauce?
kakobrekla: yeah
kakobrekla: the sad part is he made more than 95% too
jurov: just coinbr-managed holdings are way more than whatever you're insinuating here.
jurov: and i have no illusion that even all users combined it's one of smaller players here
jurov: *all coinbr users together i mean
ThickAsThieves: sry diablo, i got sucked into th vortex, tib is back on ignore now
Diablo-D3: what is he doing anyhow?
jurov: sorry tibby, my insanity threshold is clearly lower than average, but you just crossed it
jurov: <tiberiusiv> mircea has lost in 1month probably more bitcoins then 95% of this channel hold combined.
Diablo-D3: mircea doesnt have more than 1000 BTC so clearly false
kakobrekla: lol
ThickAsThieves: he lost it all on ltc
jurov: ignored.
ThickAsThieves: yuss
kakobrekla: right.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00066869 = 2.307 BTC [-]
thestrin1puller: tiberiusiv: keep talking you're making the stock shortable
kakobrekla: tiberiusiv just make sure you are on the other side of the stick and more welth to you no'
kakobrekla: i dunno why you complain
kakobrekla: stop troling already
kakobrekla: for srs
kakobrekla: its good for nothing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1574 @ 0.00066869 = 1.0525 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14726 @ 0.00066868 = 9.847 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.USD.C200T] 200 @ 0.05079251 = 10.1585 BTC
jurov: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bbgtr/this_is_how_serious_business_is_done_27k_loss/
jurov: ^^ let's see what will happen
mircea_popescu: ima add 1mn btc buttons to mpex.
mircea_popescu: lol jurov where did you find that "fu" pic of mine
jurov: lmao reddit found it itself
mircea_popescu: it's like... "smug. let me show you how it's done"
arij: is there a guide for options trading
arij: seems so confusing :/
jurov: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67302.0
mircea_popescu: arij http://trilema.com/2013/options-and-leverage-a-case-study/
arij: thank you
mircea_popescu: click on the first link nm
mircea_popescu: jurov is too fast
arij: heh
mircea_popescu: heh i wonder where draco isd
mircea_popescu: ;;seen draco49
gribble: I have not seen draco49.
jurov: but the linked page from that thread is missing... since it's referenced much, maybe MPOE-PR can update it
thestrin1puller: mircea still owes me trilema credits :(
jurov: using MKOPT/SPLIT instead of email
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller how so ?
mircea_popescu: jurov ya thaty's a point.
mircea_popescu: old old thread.
thestrin1puller: my ip changed a long time ago
thestrin1puller: well not too long ago
thestrin1puller: And now the paywall hates me
mircea_popescu: aww!
mircea_popescu: so get pw based credits
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00408 BTC [+]
thestrin1puller: i know I should have
thestrin1puller: waaaah
thestrin1puller: waaah
thestrin1puller: I'm sad
thestrin1puller: lol
thestrin1puller: it's cool mircea_popescu
thestrin1puller: i respect you enough to warrant a loss ;)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 1.95 = 3.9 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1948 @ 0.00409 = 7.9673 BTC [+]
thestrin1puller: Havelock is slowly becoming the berkshire hathaway of btc investments...
thestrin1puller: mircea_popescu: you should creating a mining bond
thestrin1puller: (this is where we all laugh)
jurov: was going to reply "there was one already"
thestrin1puller: jurov: that giga etf that went to shit?
thestrin1puller: tiberiusiv: Havelock is a savings medium different space than the others
jurov: yes, and there was a 1GH or so future.. going quickly down to 1 satoshi
thestrin1puller: Man I want to invest in HIM
mircea_popescu: thestrin1puller but i never mined
thestrin1puller: :)
thestrin1puller: ^- that is how I know mircea_popescu is legit
thestrin1puller: you mean yesterday
thestrin1puller: also tiberiusiv you know what the oracle says
thestrin1puller: shouldn't you know?
thestrin1puller: tiberiusiv: what's the next movement going to be
thestrin1puller: tiberiusiv: what's the meaning of life?
thestrin1puller: tiberiusiv: how do I make more coin back?
Bugpowder: ;;bids 0
gribble: There are currently 34845084 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 10289649.6484 USD in total. | Data vintage: 115.2992 seconds
thestrin1puller: LOL
thestrin1puller: Bugpowder is avoiding the angry mobs
assbot: [MPEX] [O.USD.C116T] 1 @ 0.1536719 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [O.USD.C116T] 19 @ 0.1536719 = 2.9198 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 7 @ 0.4999 = 3.4993 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.5 = 2.5 BTC [+]
taub: I don't think anyone is mad at him?
KRS1: cant always win jeez
KRS1: if u put out you need to expect to lose too
KRS1: can anyone provide advice? I am hearing more about mtgox every day and even though i dont have a lot in there, i'd like to protect what i do have..i dont use redeemable codes..do I have to pull out of gox and go with another?
KRS1: i think all the news is around the codes but im not using em
KRS1: and they're moving to the canada deal forgot the name..coin something
KRS1: prob because of the US regulation now? idk maybe im talking out my ass
KRS1: anyone?
jurov: KRS1 you you use it a wallet, definitely pull out by any means
jurov: *if you use it as wallet
jurov: and even if you daytrade, i'd recommend preemptively pulling before the coinlab deal goes into effect
kakobrekla: ok guise
kakobrekla: we now have Sentiment charts
kakobrekla: http://bitbet.us/bet/307/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-july-1st/
pizzaman1337: oh, nice
kakobrekla: :)
mircea_popescu: KRS1 prolly best to look for gox alternatives
mircea_popescu: pretty cool graphs
mircea_popescu: jurov http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bbgtr/this_is_how_serious_business_is_done_27k_loss/c95ddt2
mircea_popescu: it just dawned on him
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00067465 = 0.877 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00067466 = 3.3733 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00067469 = 5.8698 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.78 = 1.56 BTC [-]
jurov: so, slovak PM is to show on a trial started by ex-PM
jurov: except that police nor anybody else know his address
jurov: lmao
jurov: bulletproof legal immunity
mircea_popescu: address nullrooted
jurov: oh and also his office is not accepting such mail