topace: yes, 100 shares on mpex = 1 unit on havelock
Lyspooner: why does assbot italicize the ask price
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 633 @ 0.0074 = 4.6842 BTC [-]
Lyspooner: am i supposed to put more importance on the offer side of things?
mircea_popescu: very theoretically speaking there's a 0.00086 per share arb oportunity between the two atm
mjr_: you didn't account for the 100 to 1
smickles: Lyspooner: i thought that assbot reported low / avg / high
mjr_: i wasn't thinking of arbing it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 26 @ 0.76 = 19.76 BTC [-]
Lyspooner: vwap as calculated tick for tick, trade by trade, or second for second?
mjr_: i was just curious why they always seem to come in higher than best ask, is that automatically calculated for the size of order they asked for?
Lyspooner: what if there is no trade in 1d interval
assbot: [MPEX:O.BTCUSD.P330N] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)
mjr_: ;; calc 0.00760000/0.00739500
smickles: mjr_: you mean, the buys on havelock often come in higher than the best ask on mpex
mjr_: they asked for s.dice at 2.7% higher than the best offer
kakobreklaa: mircea_popescu, its the way of the road, bud.
smickles: it's probably because havelock is trading based on a 'personal' inventory
mjr_: that is what doesn't makes sense to me
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.007395 = 2.958 BTC [+]
smickles: and only buys on mpex when out of inventory
topace: mjr_: the trades you see from havelock are BETWEEN havelock users
mjr_: ah personal inventory held in mpex
topace: we hold 425000 shares of SDICE in mpex, and our users trade that
mircea_popescu: sort of like, how bp trades in ny but is listed in london ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.765 = 2.295 BTC [+]
smickles: topace: does your setup allow for in-kind exchange?
mjr_: i thought these were trades between mpex users...but technically you are just reporting informative trading information from havelock users, correct?
mjr_: ie. that is more market data
topace: smickles: in kind exchnge?
smickles: mjr_: assbot is run by kakobreklaa independant of mpex
smickles: topace: say i had 100000 s.dice, can i give you them for 1000 sdice on havelock?
topace: Units of the fund ARE convertible to shares on MPEX at 1 unit = 100 shares PUSHED to your MPEX account for a fixed fee of 10 BTC per transfer (fee subject to change). Contact us by email to initiate a transfer.
topace: ah yes, never though tof that, but yes i dont see why not
topace: but again, for a fairly large, per-trasnaction fee, becuase that would be all manual on my side
mjr_: yeah defintely wouldn't be worth it for arb lol
mjr_: thanks for explaining though
mircea_popescu: awww i remember the good old days when there were only a few new accts a day ;/
mjr_: i was just always confused why they wouldn't lift the ask
topace: the original thought process of making the units convertable, was tha tpeople might start buying on havelock with a low initial investment, and build up to the point that it'd be worth it for them to stop paying our 5% management fee and move their units direct to mpex
smickles: topace: why not lower the fee, and limit it by requireing large volume?
topace: smickles: i could do that too, im open to suggestions
mjr_: as mircea_popescu calculated...it would be very hard to overcome practically any fee
mjr_: i should have done math before i say that
smickles: hey mjr_, wanna borrow a crapload of s.dice to arb with :)
mjr_: i was just doing that math
Anduck: how much s.dice paid total div?
Anduck: and how much per share
mjr_: so i guess it would even make sense at current fees if you transferred enough
Bowjov: also shares appreciated over the past month.. it was 0.xx32->0.0075 today
mjr_: thanks smickles but i think i should build up WoT before doing anything like that
awkorama: does anybody here use mt.gox socket.io interface ?
smickles: heh, i thought you loved satoshis mircea_popescu ;)
awkorama: no idea what clarkmoody even is
mjr_: thats what i was thinking...but i think it has a fallback too...
mjr_: bitcoin.clarkmoody.com
awkorama: judging from the console down, yes
smickles: awkorama: i have in the past, but it was flakey for me
awkorama: so are you hammering the REST interface instead ?
Anduck: why dont they have separate servers...
awkorama: I need a live(ish) stream of ticker
mjr_: speaking of which, do you have any api limits mircea_popescu? i can slow down my bot if you like
mircea_popescu: Anduck a better question is, why doesn't the forum use some of that 5k btc it has collected over the years
mjr_: just to check prices
Bowjov: it goes to theymos' personal fund.. in which he replenishes those btc he sold at a rate of 1k btc per dollar
mircea_popescu: mjr_ so use somethingsensible, not like they change that often
mjr_: i showed the output, it calculates spread based on lowest ask and highest bid
mjr_: so i am just grabbing the jsonmarket depth
smickles: awkorama: i switched to something that doesn't require me to be 'up to the second' on gox
mjr_: i think once every 3 seconds?
mjr_: i will slow it down
mjr_: but if it were to place orders i would like it to be as precise as possible
awkorama: smickles: I understand that you don't want to share your secret...
mjr_: moreso to check stat
smickles: awkorama: no secret, i've moved to trading options on mpex, rather than spot on gox
awkorama: oh ok, doesn't help me then, thanks anyway :)
mjr_: spot is way too hard
smickles: awkorama: your best bet, afaik, is to use the websocket api, and failover to rest
mjr_: and you have to leave money all over the place for long periods of time
awkorama: as in, if I don't receive a websocket update in 10 seconds, hammer the REST ?
smickles: awkorama: maybe have a redundency with bitcoincharts' stream (if they still have it)
mjr_: i wish someone had multicast market data, that would be so nice
awkorama: you reckon they would have a different source than me ?
smickles: bitcoincharts might get lucky where you don't
mjr_: i will try to integrate an rss feed reader...i think, that could work right? which would be the first to update?
smickles: mjr_: ever lurked in #bitcoin-market?
mjr_: but this is the funnest of all the btc related rooms
smickles: that's kinda multicast market data
awkorama: and now for something completely different, is there a concept of NDA in bitcoin world at all ?
mjr_: yeah...kinda...i meant more like tcp multicast ie. i can join a group
Bowjov: the only thing i want from bitcointalk is doog's data
mjr_: awkorama: nice rocky and bullwinkle reference :)
smickles: awkorama: either with a wink and a nod, or contracts
smickles: from my personal exp., that is
mjr_: contracts are enforced through WoT right?
Bowjov: Has anyone ordered from Avalon batch no.2 successfully?
mjr_: hmmm difficult with NDA then...you probably are trying to assure they don't tell someone outside of here (i am assuming)
mjr_: well yeah, if they told people here you may be able to find out about it
smickles: mjr_: you could set up the contract in such a way that it's enforceable 'IRL'
awkorama: IRL sucks, WoT sounds much better
mjr_: if they told someone who they new IRL, how would you find out that they new? I am guessing you have abusiness idea
awkorama: yes, and I am looking for an investor
mjr_: and we could have the same idea
mjr_: it would be very hard to show that the person you told, then told me
smickles: mjr_: consider how often that could happen with 'regular' NDAs
mjr_: that was more my point
mjr_: NDA is very hard to enforce
mjr_: except in issues of code
awkorama: it can harm someone's reputation though
mjr_: i have already said my idea on here publicly
awkorama: I wonder whether that can be enforced through cryptography somehow
mjr_: if someone else does it that is fine too
mjr_: it's tough, if they are intended to receive the message...they can retransmit it's cleartext
awkorama: yes they can, but can i then proove that they got the message from me ?
mjr_: and that is the end of the scope of encryption...i have been thinking about that a lot lately, the inability to create an unrepeatable message
awkorama: and thus harm their reputation
mjr_: no...not in any way i can think of
smickles: there are fancy ways of embedding hidden data in documents
mjr_: because they could call someone, and just verbally tell the idea
mjr_: this same issue is what started SnapChat
awkorama: ok.. I write my business idea in a message
mjr_: but they ran into issues right away
mjr_: because you can take a screenshot
mjr_: so they added a feature to check if you took a screenshot
mjr_: so people can take picture with other device...
jurov: CoinBr.iDiff-E difficulty future now available from ฿0.040! Buy till it lasts :D
mjr_: messages by their very nature are repeatable...even if on other medium
mjr_: so that's what makes it tough
awkorama: and send the hash of that message to whole network
mjr_: no i get it, you could do that
mjr_: but they could read it out loud to someone
awkorama: then I send it plaintext to investor
mjr_: and how would you verify that what the person HEARD was related to what you WROTE
awkorama: and if the investor implements it without me, I can proove that he broke the NDA
Bowjov: bitcointalk is now back on
awkorama: well the project would be discribed in detail
awkorama: so it get be publicly identified if it went live
mjr_: i guess the problem in this case specifically would be in that yes if he implemented it EXACTLY as you had specified, you could sue
mjr_: but if he says he was "inspired by" or it was "similar to something i was already doing"...that is what makes it a gray area
smickles: a public hash of the idea, and proof you talked to the scammer.
mjr_: look at facebook, zuckerberg and the winklevoss
awkorama: well.. then the WoT would decide whether he broke the NDA or not
awkorama: the grey area is not something I would decide
mjr_: i would say that a picture with a timestamp, or something like that is proof as well
mjr_: or mail it to yourself
mjr_: or email it to someone secure so they have a record of it being emailed at a certain date and time
awkorama: yeah, but checksum is enough in this case
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 14.9 = 29.8 BTC [+]
mjr_: if he decides to post your exact plan
mjr_: then yes you can verify with checksum
mjr_: but if he changes the name on it...
mjr_: the checksum would no longer match
mjr_: so if he decided to share with other people your exact idea, and not even bother taking your name off it and replacing it with his own, you could prove that he was using your idea
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 4 @ 0.3099 = 1.2396 BTC [-]
mjr_: plagiarists rarely do that, haven't we all kinda paraphrased stuff for our papers after copy pasting?
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 2 @ 0.0075 = 0.015 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1098 @ 0.0075 = 8.235 BTC [+]
awkorama: mjr_: no.. because if he implements the project, it would be public
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 5 @ 1 = 5 BTC [+]
awkorama: and then I can publish the plaintext prooving that it was indeed me who created the idea in the first place
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 50 @ 0.01 = 0.5 BTC [+]
mjr_: that is if his idea is so closely related to yours that it is provably the same
mjr_: and that is why NDA is hard
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.765 = 7.65 BTC [+]
mjr_: ie. could someone have come up with this on their own?
awkorama: yes, but that is NDA in general, not in virtual
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 2690 @ 0.0075 = 20.175 BTC [+]
mjr_: remember...newton and leibniz "invented" calculus pretty much simultaneously
awkorama: anybody can come up with idea, nobody really implemented it (or so does google tell me)
mjr_: so if he implements it...he can say, i had this idea
mjr_: again it is a judgement call
mjr_: i am just playing devil's advocate
mjr_: this is a huge debate
mjr_: intelectual property is one of the fastest growing areas of law
awkorama: as a member of pirate party, I would know
mjr_: and one of the hardest to actually decide
mjr_: for example...is it that unique to do my idea? (no one has done it yet)
mjr_: i think it's obvious to me
awkorama: maybe I just hack some code together quickly and push it live without an investor and then arange an IPO to raise some starting funds
awkorama: e.g. going public with the idea but calling out to pool of investors
mjr_: IPO is tough in btc world
mjr_: IPO will probably involve SEC
mjr_: (almost definitely is actually more accurate, except for a few loopholes)
mjr_: in that case great idea and i would do that
mjr_: thought you meant investors in the sense of venture capital firms
awkorama: no.. I want to keep this all on net, no country involved
mjr_: coinbase got 600k and they went through YCombinator
mjr_: and i like that style a lot
mjr_: i would like to do mine that way, but it wouldn't really work
mjr_: and in my opinion, coinbase did not do anything new
mjr_: online wallet and very limited exchange with bank linking
mjr_: great UI though, and they made it easier
awkorama: doesn't anyone just use bootstrap.js for ui ?
mjr_: very true L33T css3 rounded corners and drop shadows
mjr_: yeah i like bootstrap and jquery
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.0098 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.0098 BTC [-]
awkorama: Also this is the first project I went js only (including server side), so I realized how much I suck at js :)
Bowjov: according to BFL, I can still get an asic if I win their "lottery" system, even if I pre order today?
awkorama: multiple node.js instances communicating with each other through rabbitmq.
mjr_: i think that is the future
awkorama: well.. my application is very event driven
awkorama: I am not very skilled with nosql, yet
mjr_: me neither, but luckily, it is very (almost exactly) js
mjr_: it's all just json in mongo
awkorama: Also I am not sure about mongo supporting arbitrary precision mathematics
mjr_: yeah that i don't know
awkorama: I mean datatypes in general suck in js
mjr_: i think you can set precision can't you
mjr_: but i personally hate strongly typed so you may be talking to the wrong person about that
awkorama: if it's just js Number type then NO
awkorama: because that is just 64 bit float
mjr_: is that not more than enough precision?
mjr_: smallest 64 bit number greater than 1
awkorama: when dealing with stuff like money
mjr_: 15 decimal places? even btc only goes down to 8
awkorama: but no rounding, doing proper decimal calculations
mjr_: but just a quick glance
mjr_: no float is ever really accurate in the grand scheme of things
mjr_: more philosophically than in practice
awkorama: mongo wouldn't be able to compare such numbers in where clause
awkorama: that's why I went with postgre
awkorama: so at least my data will be fine, even though my front-end right now does not deal in decimals
mjr_: well, one possible solution is to calc the decimal portion as an integer and then append it to another int
mjr_: or something like that
mjr_: but i think using tuples of numbers ie. int + float could be a possible solution
gribble: Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
mjr_: anyway, you should check out angular.js...i want to do my next web project using that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 15 @ 0.765 = 11.475 BTC [+]
mjr_: i was talking to jurov of how cool it'd be to build a really nice browser based trading platform
mjr_: with hot keys and everything
awkorama: be sure to make it "mobile first"
smickles: lol, ok, time to start coding a backup way to get the overall market 24hvwap
mjr_: i think mobile would be too restrictive
mjr_: i mean for trading at least
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 670622 @ 0.0007 = 469.4354 BTC [+]
mjr_: i would want charts from clark moody and depth of book, with prints (if it could get market data from mpex instead of mt. gox)
mjr_: yes, and then i would want hot keys
mjr_: as well as a positions window
awkorama: and then add hotkeys for desktop version
mjr_: but i would say angular is great for this sort of thing
mjr_: and node.js in the back
jurov: why can't one use ints exclusively? and rounded floats only for display?
awkorama: jurov: that might work, you need to remember for each column though, how many decimal places you have there
awkorama: and also choose it at the beginning of development
jurov: kakobreklaa: assbot down. i'm sure there's serious activity on s.mpoe atm
mjr_: looks like we are rallying once again
jurov: kako i suspect you. really looks like you turn the light off, did the trades, started assbot again
awkorama: alright guys, leaving for today, nice chatting to you, g/n
mjr_: yeah very fun awkorama good luck
mjr_: i for one think i am going to start using satoshi's as my unit
mjr_: decimals get way too hard to remember cuz we don't really have a great way to say numbers like that
mjr_: like saying S.DICE is at 724,159 satoshis
mjr_: is a lot easier than 0.00724159
mjr_: how would you pronounce that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.765 = 7.65 BTC [+]
mjr_: and i think humans are meant to think in integers...if i said give me a hundred million satoshis, and you said ok i'm gonna charge you 500 for the transfer or 50,000 for the transfer it's a lot easier for me to make sense of the terms, cuz they are the same way you would say them
jurov: 7241.59 microbitcoins
mjr_: micro is how many places?
mjr_: oh never mind i think i get it...a microbitcoin would be the equivalent of a dollar (2 decimals)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 600 @ 0.00069116 = 0.4147 BTC [-]
mjr_: jurov: that would be one nice thing about a trading platform...you wouldn't have to type so many nubmers
jurov: one-click price setting - patent pending for coinbr
jurov: kakobreklaa: assbot is definitely missing trades
jurov: see live.coinbr.com
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0249 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00066214 / 0.00068429 / 0.0007 (3568671 shares, 2,442.02 BTC), 7D: 0.00063335 / 0.00066702 / 0.0007 (14253174 shares, 9,507.24 BTC), 30D: 0.00059445 / 0.00065922 / 0.0007 (58426262 shares, 38,516.32 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00703438 / 0.00736168 / 0.007395 (228303 shares, 1,680.70 BTC), 7D: 0.00534524 / 0.00731648 / 0.00749999 (709727 shares, 5,192.71 BTC), 30D: 0.00085848 / 0.00511159 / 0.0075 (6083409 shares, 31,095.93 BTC)
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 9 @ 0.35 = 3.15 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.0007 = 17.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 415 @ 0.0072416 = 3.0053 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 385 @ 0.0072132 = 2.7771 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 50 @ 0.0072132 = 0.3607 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 600 @ 0.00069116 = 0.4147 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0007 = 4.2 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00069754 = 5.4408 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00069754 = 7.3242 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.0007 = 3.15 BTC [+]
pizzaman1337: kakobreklaa: did you code assbot? where does it get it's data from for MPEX? (rss?)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18479 @ 0.00069002 = 12.7509 BTC [-]
smickles: mpex either grandfathered into assbot pulling from mpex's twitter feed, or mp has upgraded to pushing to assbot
Bowjov: Guys, I will glue my recently deceased iPod touch on the ground in front of walmart and record video of people trying to pick it up
smickles: *note: i gould be completely wrong
Bowjov: when my buddies are free. ill get on his car and record it from a distance
Bowjov: I'll put it on youtube and stuff
smickles: How do you plan to secretly glue it? pretend to just be sitting on the ground while actually sitting on the ipod while it bonds?
Bowjov: I will put the ipod face down yeah, I can step on it while it binds
Bowjov: I'll put it at a sidewalk so that not too many people will see it
mjr_: i like coinbases locking in your price (can't use my money but at least i'm not losing it)
mjr_: and i meant can't use it cuz of four day clearing over the weekend
pizzaman1337: mircea_popescu: is there a public-facing API that streams MPEX trades?
mjr_: i didn't know you worked on mpex agent smickles
mjr_: i really like you guys code a lot
mjr_: saw something by you (i think) on github
mjr_: yeah, that is used in mpexagent
smickles: oh, i forked it and played with the code a little
mjr_: but looks really cool
jurov: pizzaman1337, there is rss on mpex.co
jurov: not exactly streaming but i found it most reliable
mjr_: by the way, has anyone tried github for windows?
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00066495 / 0.00068502 / 0.0007 (3488379 shares, 2,389.64 BTC), 7D: 0.00063335 / 0.00066713 / 0.0007 (14293199 shares, 9,535.52 BTC), 30D: 0.00059445 / 0.00065926 / 0.0007 (58477262 shares, 38,551.76 BTC)
pizzaman1337: jurov: I saw that, was hoping for something streaming
mjr_: its kinda awesome i have to admit
mjr_: the rss feed would be xml?
mjr_: hate mixing json and xml...
jurov: how would you mix it?
mjr_: i mean accepting one feed from xml and one feed from json
mjr_: and having to parse both
mjr_: like depth of book is offered as json
mjr_: and executions are xml
jurov: you just call rss parser library in one line
mjr_: tbh i haven't used much xml, but is it as easy to get objects?
mjr_: it spits out a python object?
jurov: yes, a nested dict
mjr_: i guess it won't be that hard
jurov: i can send you mpexrss.py sample
mjr_: maximojoshuarossi@gmail.com
mjr_: lol, i care a LOT about anonymity
mjr__: i have been disconnecting randomly
mjr__: i guess you can get your own stuff with a statjson
mjr__: but if you want to see all executions you have to go to rss
mjr__: oh lol, that was my old nick that dc's
mjr_: i'm definitely gonna need to get some orders in on thursday i think
mjr_: i will be using coinbr
jurov: bitcoincharts down now for a change
jurov: like, are mtgox/bitcoincharts/blockchain on the same hw?
jurov: bitcoin decentralization ftw
mjr_: thats what i call redundant
mjr_: i'm surprised that mt. gox at least doesn't have a cluster
mjr_: vmware can literally not miss a ping if a server blows up
mjr_: so, still not sure how you send orders on coinbr...is it manual? or does the web interface appear once funded
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.0007 = 17.36 BTC [+]
jurov: mjr_ yes once funded, "new order" link appears
jurov: i put link to screenshots on frontpage
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0249 BTC [+]
mjr_: i may try one of those cash things like bitinstant on monday
mjr_: can't wait till thursday lol
jurov: mjr_, are you going to fund today? since i'm preparing to haul stuff to mpex
mjr_: no, thursday at the latest
mjr_: but if i can find a way to get btc tomorrow i am going to
DeadWeasel: apparently that was not allowed. you just go on, mjr_
mjr_: what was not allowed?
DeadWeasel: srsly though, how have you maintained this level of interaction continuous throughout the day?
mjr_: mostly bored, and this is the most interesting thing i have found in a very long time
mjr_: i have some really big plans
mjr_: lol i just found girls go bitcoin
mjr_: i did not know that there were girls who knew what they were hahaha
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.765 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.765 BTC [+]
jurov: oh kakobreklaa did you resolve the probs with assbot?
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00066495 / 0.00068533 / 0.0007 (3522396 shares, 2,414.00 BTC), 7D: 0.00063335 / 0.00066731 / 0.0007 (14324786 shares, 9,559.11 BTC), 30D: 0.00059445 / 0.00065932 / 0.0007 (58486207 shares, 38,561.60 BTC)
mircea_popescu: the old vwap was just replaced with a new, much faster, lighter version
gribble: Current Blocks: 219503 | Current Difficulty: 2968775.3320751 | Next Difficulty At Block: 219743 | Next Difficulty In: 240 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 10 hours, 40 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3252722.00578067 | Estimated Percent Change: 9.56443792286
gribble: Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | 9.56443792286 % based on data since last change | 15.3622764814 % based on data for last three days
mircea_popescu: well for one thing it only lists the symbols which had activity at all
mjr_: anyways, i will talk to you all later monday should be fun
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.765 = 7.65 BTC [+]
kakobreklaa: been only doing ai evolution for about 24hrs
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-MINING] 1 @ 0.4799 BTC [-]
Namworld: Should I just freeze BTC-MINING trading?
Namworld: Until issues with Amazingrando are resolved?
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 100 @ 0.01 = 1 BTC [-]
Namworld: Prevent people from inadvertantly buying something possibly worthless?
mircea_popescu: also prevent people from selling at a loss/buying at a risk.
Namworld: Actually I should probably post some status on the situation and let people buy/sell according to their expectation of amazingrando paying out I guess.
mircea_popescu: this freezing business is more of the glbse nuttery imo.
mircea_popescu: discontinue it is one thing. freezing it is neither here nor here.
Namworld: Well there's always the link to the thread I suppose
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14845 @ 0.0007 = 10.3915 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6047 @ 0.00069314 = 4.1914 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.0007 = 5.25 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7573 @ 0.00069999 = 5.301 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0007 = 4.2 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 195 @ 0.0073419 = 1.4317 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.765 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069111 = 2.9863 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11034 @ 0.00069128 = 7.6276 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0006901 = 2.9819 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 932 @ 0.00069001 = 0.6431 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3047 @ 0.00069 = 2.1024 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 600 @ 0.007301 = 4.3806 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 600 @ 0.00731325 = 4.388 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069107 = 2.9861 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3807 @ 0.00069128 = 2.6317 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00718504 / 0.0073726 / 0.007395 (191681 shares, 1,413.19 BTC), 7D: 0.00534524 / 0.00731123 / 0.00749999 (698962 shares, 5,110.27 BTC), 30D: 0.00085848 / 0.00512667 / 0.0075 (6020786 shares, 30,866.61 BTC)
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 521 @ 0.0249 = 12.9729 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069035 = 2.983 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3379 @ 0.00069 = 2.3315 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 8 @ 0.0097 = 0.0776 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 450 @ 0.00731325 = 3.291 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 3 @ 0.025 = 0.075 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 5 @ 0.025 = 0.125 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 10 @ 0.026 = 0.26 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00069 = 2.76 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 250 @ 0.08995 = 22.4875 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2626 @ 0.00069128 = 1.8153 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069548 = 3.0052 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4398 @ 0.00069549 = 3.0588 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 2 @ 0.023 = 0.046 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069028 = 2.9827 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20379 @ 0.00069001 = 14.0617 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00069001 = 6.2101 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00069001 = 9.1771 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00069525 = 2.19 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2150 @ 0.00069001 = 1.4835 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00069001 = 2.898 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 3 @ 1 = 3 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.765 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.76 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00069001 = 2.1735 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1100 @ 0.00069058 = 0.7596 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00069001 = 3.8641 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00069058 = 5.7318 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00069483 = 2.7793 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00069549 = 1.3214 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 6 @ 1 = 6 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00069051 = 11.8768 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00069051 = 8.148 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.76 = 1.52 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.0072934 = 7.2934 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 91 @ 0.00724667 = 0.6594 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1171 @ 0.00069135 = 0.8096 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10479 @ 0.00069137 = 7.2449 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1021 @ 0.00069137 = 0.7059 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2362 @ 0.00069549 = 1.6427 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5464 @ 0.00069549 = 3.8002 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3744 @ 0.00069653 = 2.6078 BTC [+]
jurov: aka "look, mpoe-pr peed on the chart"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1189 @ 0.00731325 = 8.6955 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069071 = 2.9846 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8911 @ 0.00069051 = 6.1531 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 814 @ 0.00069051 = 0.5621 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7336 @ 0.00069001 = 5.0619 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.00724668 = 2.8987 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00069001 = 16.6292 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069619 = 3.0082 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7179 @ 0.00069653 = 5.0004 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069034 = 2.983 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4229 @ 0.00069001 = 2.9181 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1077 @ 0.00069653 = 0.7502 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.0006967 = 2.5081 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2023 @ 0.0006987 = 1.4135 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2298 @ 0.0006987 = 1.6056 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4761 @ 0.00069871 = 3.3266 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3941 @ 0.00069953 = 2.7568 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00069953 = 1.8887 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.00731324 = 3.6566 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 750 @ 0.00731325 = 5.4849 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16743 @ 0.00069953 = 11.7122 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 111 @ 0.00731325 = 0.8118 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1412 @ 0.00731333 = 10.3264 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1234 @ 0.00734038 = 9.058 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1143 @ 0.007347 = 8.3976 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069018 = 2.9823 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 679 @ 0.00069001 = 0.4685 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 15 @ 0.76252525 = 11.4379 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: man, those police are going to be pissed when they find out it was an FBI agent they arrested
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 235 @ 0.76252525 = 179.1934 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: that guy got busted for breaking drug dealing protocol
thestringpuller: the seller didn't get nabbed so it's kind of a moot point, since he can't really snitch
thestringpuller: business and home need to be kept separate in that lifetime
mircea_popescu: They also found two working mobile phones, and forensically analyzed more than 20,000 text messages. In among them were incriminating texts such as "I got five grand worth if you want" and "promote the LSD I got more in. I sold 200 cubes last week".
thestringpuller: not everyone can send gpg encrypted email to clientelle :P
mircea_popescu: actually the people who deal dope and the people who use gpg are like oil and water it seems.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069798 = 3.016 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10679 @ 0.0006981 = 7.455 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: silk road dope dealers never seemed to get busted despite the dea purportedly having a budget just for that investigation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 831 @ 0.0006981 = 0.5801 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12398 @ 0.00069953 = 8.6728 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: and ofcourse godaddy would be targeted. only way to make money.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069012 = 2.982 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1279 @ 0.00069001 = 0.8825 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu you should turn /dtng/ into something like that
mircea_popescu: it's just there cause sometime x years ago i got fucking tired of bs image hosting services on web
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: what if some of the whales on mpex are drug lords and store their profits in MPEX assets...?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069064 = 2.9843 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8379 @ 0.00069081 = 5.7883 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: well, what if the moon is made of cheeze ? does that matter to you ?
thestringpuller: no? I was just wondering, because that's what lawyers want to use to "negafy" bitcoin...
jurov: thestringpuller, never ran into "polimedia premium" second paywall?
jurov: they seem to do make money from porn :)
jurov: you just didn't look sufficiently hard
thestringpuller: i would say pablo escobar would be more likely to dump large amounts of money into bitcoin as opposed to warren buffet
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i guess that'd be the problem of the banks or whoever takes his dollars.
thestringpuller: you need a better paywall, since now I'm just using proxies to scramble the outbound ip :P
jurov: yea, and emir kusturic will make a documentary about mircea
mircea_popescu: a ferw months later, "sorry fuck you and here's our site pls to give us jooce"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1400 @ 0.0006901 = 0.9661 BTC [-]
jurov: it's confirmed. mircea is an alien
thestringpuller: because it's in romanian and I don't have a translator on dis computer
mircea_popescu: basically it says that you can get larger versions of pix i took if you payup
mircea_popescu: kinda lost interest in bothering with prepping pix etc since bitcoin tho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2921 @ 0.0006901 = 2.0158 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6403 @ 0.00069001 = 4.4181 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00069001 = 4.6921 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1395 @ 0.00069001 = 0.9626 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4905 @ 0.00069 = 3.3845 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00069 = 9.108 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2921 @ 0.00069081 = 2.0179 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 257 @ 0.007347 = 1.8882 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 543 @ 0.007395 = 4.0155 BTC [+]
j1717: how do i invest in s. dice?
jurov: j1717, you need to buy shares on MPEx.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 23 @ 0.75 = 17.25 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9429 @ 0.00069825 = 6.5838 BTC [+]
jurov: but perhaps you can start by using broker instead: coinbr.com
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 7 @ 1 = 7 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3421 @ 0.00069361 = 2.3728 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 618 @ 0.00069953 = 0.4323 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069998 = 3.0246 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2140 @ 0.00069999 = 1.498 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.73 = 3.65 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.715 = 3.575 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2887 @ 0.00069352 = 2.0022 BTC [-]
j1717: no not yet new B to this
mircea_popescu: rthen prolly should take a little time and learn about it all
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00069999 = 5.2499 BTC [+]
j1717: 30 btc just sign up ?
j1717: i ave a bit coin wallet but it is trying to charge a fee i thought that this was free
mircea_popescu: on mpex, yes. there's passthroughs on bitfunder, havelock and btctc, and there's brokers (like coinbr.com, as a site, like smickles as aperson) that can also help you
JohnGalt1337: you can buy them elsewhere, bitfunder is probably the best site for you
mircea_popescu: "MPOE-PR, you can class action your parents if you had enough people in the suit."
mircea_popescu: heh. maybe their plan is to just wait for the delisting and pay something then
mircea_popescu: tho it'd be great if they just announced what they plan to do
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.74 = 1.48 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2660 @ 0.00069416 = 1.8465 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11740 @ 0.000697 = 8.1828 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1810 @ 0.000697 = 1.2616 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10541 @ 0.00069999 = 7.3786 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12759 @ 0.00069999 = 8.9312 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0279 BTC [+]
JWU_42: hrm - so it seems Avalon batch #2 orders was a fiasco
JWU_42: thankfully missed that drama
gigavps: fiasco is an understatement
JWU_42: class action suit with walletbit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4950 @ 0.00069736 = 3.4519 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00069999 = 10.4299 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 2 @ 0.1195 = 0.239 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 40 @ 0.1196 = 4.784 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1434 @ 0.00069352 = 0.9945 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2131 @ 0.00069334 = 1.4775 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66 @ 0.000695 = 0.0459 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 257 @ 0.0076 = 1.9532 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8634 @ 0.000695 = 6.0006 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2766 @ 0.00069975 = 1.9355 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P210T] 750 @ 0.2040166 = 153.0125 BTC [+]
JWU_42: mircea_popescu: we are quite litigious here in the US
JWU_42: heh - yeah - much talk and little action in these things generally
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1250 @ 0.007395 = 9.2438 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 1 @ 0.721 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.35 = 1.05 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1555 @ 0.00069975 = 1.0881 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9040 @ 0.00069999 = 6.3279 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0006994 = 3.0221 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8829 @ 0.00069934 = 6.1745 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 110 @ 0.007395 = 0.8135 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069976 = 3.0237 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5929 @ 0.00069999 = 4.1502 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 166 @ 0.00730792 = 1.2131 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1200 @ 0.00730331 = 8.764 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 231 @ 0.00729809 = 1.6859 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 970 @ 0.00724668 = 7.0293 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 4259 @ 0.00724667 = 30.8636 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 700 @ 0.00723594 = 5.0652 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1550 @ 0.00723555 = 11.2151 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 6421 @ 0.0072011 = 46.2383 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00720101 = 7.201 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 150 @ 0.0072 = 1.08 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1942 @ 0.00719005 = 13.9631 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1681 @ 0.00715653 = 12.0301 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 211 @ 0.00713783 = 1.5061 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1150 @ 0.0070824 = 8.1448 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 394 @ 0.00704102 = 2.7742 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1300 @ 0.00703898 = 9.1507 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 200 @ 0.00702536 = 1.4051 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 598 @ 0.007 = 4.186 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 20.30000, Best ask: 20.30573, Bid-ask spread: 0.00573, Last trade: 20.30573, 24 hour volume: 48343.64189664, 24 hour low: 20.03100, 24 hour high: 21.05000, 24 hour vwap: 20.56918
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 226 @ 0.00069934 = 0.1581 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069335 = 2.996 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7453 @ 0.00069334 = 5.1675 BTC [-]
jurov: just got notification about deposit... fortunately i chacked it with bitcoind and that block got orphaned
jurov: i've got a joke for you: "now that we have paid bitcoin devs, they can perhaps make such things simpler"
jurov: normal coinbr stuff
jurov: haha, but getting notification about mpex deposits would be quite useful, too :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4096 @ 0.00069405 = 2.8428 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069454 = 3.0011 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4483 @ 0.00069455 = 3.1137 BTC [+]
jurov: someday i'll give up and run electrum. for mass mpex surveillance.
jurov: usagi, when they mature? when someone buys for 0.001 ?
jurov: hm, perhaps you need to ask someone to explain difference between mpoe shares and bonds.
jurov: bonds and thus MPBPT on bitfunder based on them do mature every month
jurov: s.mpoe are normal shares that jsut pay dividends
jurov: i'd think experienced investor would refer to things by proper names?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2265 @ 0.00069334 = 1.5704 BTC [-]
jurov: it is backed by MPOE bond , yea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 618 @ 0.00069334 = 0.4285 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069252 = 2.9924 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00069251 = 8.1716 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2873 @ 0.00069003 = 1.9825 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7127 @ 0.00069003 = 4.9178 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10223 @ 0.00069002 = 7.0541 BTC [-]
Bugpowder: someone bot the JUNs for 8995. Not a believer.
Chilca: Hi Guys, what's the ticket for MPOE bond?
Chilca: I see, how can I do if I want to buy?
mircea_popescu: you need to email your intended deposit and demanded % then send the btc
jurov: if bitcointalk worked
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1650 @ 0.00069452 = 1.146 BTC [+]
dub: triple diff by june seems rather low
dub: thats the first avalon run
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9777 @ 0.00069002 = 6.7463 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3923 @ 0.00069001 = 2.7069 BTC [-]
gesell: is there a log of the satoshidice secrets (not the hash's of, but the secrets that are published after their use is over)
smickles: i think i recall someone keeping a log
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1700 @ 0.00665516 = 11.3138 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 11164 @ 0.007 = 78.148 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.007 = 3.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.007 = 3.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.006667 = 2.6668 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 10400 @ 0.007 = 72.8 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.76 = 3.8 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2671 @ 0.00069452 = 1.8551 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2029 @ 0.00069455 = 1.4092 BTC [+]
Anduck: imo it was cheap at 0.0035 XD
assbot: [MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0.0014 / 0.0014 / 0.0014 (300 shares, 0.42 BTC), 7D: 0.00139 / 0.00144825 / 0.00159999 (32457 shares, 47.01 BTC), 30D: 0.000337 / 0.00079944 / 0.0035 (2340020 shares, 1,870.71 BTC)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 60 @ 0.765 = 45.9 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1810 @ 0.00069455 = 1.2571 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069024 = 2.9825 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10337 @ 0.00069013 = 7.1339 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 292 @ 0.00069002 = 0.2015 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3884 @ 0.00069455 = 2.6976 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069487 = 3.0025 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00069488 = 3.3354 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 919 @ 0.00069719 = 0.6407 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00069035 = 2.8995 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3818 @ 0.00069002 = 2.6345 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121 @ 0.00069035 = 0.0835 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16261 @ 0.00069001 = 11.2203 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 500 @ 0.0073 = 3.65 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 598 @ 0.0066383 = 3.9697 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 570 @ 0.00069719 = 0.3974 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1630 @ 0.00069899 = 1.1394 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1750 @ 0.00069001 = 1.2075 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00069001 = 3.5881 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3470 @ 0.00069899 = 2.4255 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069998 = 3.0246 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4110 @ 0.00069998 = 2.8769 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 368 @ 0.00069999 = 0.2576 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00069999 = 3.22 BTC [+]
jurov: lol what would mjr_ say upon seeing this
pigeons: i thought it was mjr_'s stability bot
jurov: yesterday he got higly agitated about mpoe spreads
jurov: and no, it's not his bot ;D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.0006943 = 3.0549 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.0006943 = 2.0135 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33750 @ 0.00069999 = 23.6247 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic you won't believe this (yes you will) but gavin brought consensus to the maxblocksize issue.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069006 = 2.9817 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2929 @ 0.00069002 = 2.0211 BTC [-]
dub: inb4 Luke-Jr Luke-Jrs about it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1232 @ 0.00069002 = 0.8501 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2239 @ 0.00069001 = 1.5449 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 20.13401, Best ask: 20.21000, Bid-ask spread: 0.07599, Last trade: 20.21000, 24 hour volume: 44775.20493977, 24 hour low: 20.04250, 24 hour high: 21.05000, 24 hour vwap: 20.53126
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00069002 = 7.7282 BTC [+]
jurov: send the gal. she'll know what to do
jurov: it's next week. probably.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Which maxblocksize issue are you talking about?
mircea_popescu: you've not been following the maxblocksize most recent drama ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3313 @ 0.007 = 23.191 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00739499 = 7.395 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 8549 @ 0.007395 = 63.2199 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00069515 = 5.3527 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00069964 = 1.6791 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 999 @ 0.00069964 = 0.6989 BTC [+]
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: There an ancillary issue (for miners at least) for txn verification as well. I don't really view the max block size as an issue, since I have no trouble running multi-TB databases, so I, personally, will have no issue remaining a node even if maxblocksize increases massively
midnightmagic: I do view satoshidice as a particularly pernicious form of evil, for example.
gigavps: it's pretty easy to exclude their transactions
gigavps: i'll be doing that soon ;)
gigavps: miner revolt against satoshidice
midnightmagic: We still have to accept blocks that other douches mine SD into..
mircea_popescu: sokay, they make enough dough to build their own rigs, run you boys outta biz.
midnightmagic: The issue is that while *we* will save ourselves from mining effort, if it becomes too widely-adopted SD will modify their scheme and it'll be a kind of arms race after that
mircea_popescu: if you're in the business of mining, trying to save yourself from mining effort seems a little...
mircea_popescu: you know, like the whore that's trying not to get laid too much.
Anduck: how should they modify their scheme, midnightmagic??
midnightmagic: lol. We outnumber them both in terms of brains, and in overall hashrate. They couldn't afford to directly compete against the long tail. Not yet.
gigavps: mircea_popescu, the idea is to make SD take deposits and not do everything through the block chain
midnightmagic: Anduck: Stop using the blockchain as their own personal database.
gigavps: mircea_popescu, it will be their down fall then
mircea_popescu: and contrary to popular belief, the 700k btc company tells the 50k nominal /2k market value bond people what's what.
midnightmagic: Anduck: They should modify their scheme to stop using the blockchain as their own personal database.
Luke-Jr: Anduck: you send to a one-time-use address to deposit, play as much as you like on the site; when you're done, you enter the withdraw address and it sends the balance back; if you don't do anything for 5-10 mins, it sends it back to where it came by default
Anduck: welll i like the current system,
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: then SD can die
Anduck: think if without nerd goggless
gigavps: mircea_popescu is too smart for the rest of us
mircea_popescu: dudes, it's simple : miners that mine can stick around
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: also, it's hardly a consensus when there's 1 person..
mircea_popescu: miners that don't mine can find a job in obama's booming economy
Anduck: for normal gambling man current SD kind of gambling is super
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: txn that don't DDoS can stick around.
Anduck: u dont evn need to go to the site to gamble
mircea_popescu: here you are, a bunch of , as tghe italians say, rotinculo
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: By the time the block reward is < txn fees, this problem will already have been solved.
mircea_popescu: go get 9k usd a month to pay for electricity and 40 hours week for free.
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: responsible miners will continue to mine blocks without dice spam
mircea_popescu: the responsible miners will mine. the idiots will highfalootin.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: I wasn't aware we should be impressing you. :)
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: No, the point of the exercise was to make public comments.
mircea_popescu: well ok, how's this for public comments : all you boys together don't clear 10k btc a month.
mircea_popescu: and this even if we don't pay you as much as waitresses make
mircea_popescu: i can't understand envy masquerading as "responsibility".
davout: someone be funny, i'm bored
mircea_popescu: davout why are you here when you should be fighting your competition!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00069157 = 5.8438 BTC [-]
davout: i sometimes feel bad hitting on mentally retarded people
mircea_popescu: i never hit on mentally retarded people that mind their own business.
Luke-Jr: davout: mircea_popescu's problem in this case seems to be he likes to think he's important
davout: Luke-Jr: i'll count to three in tonal and then *poof* you'll disappear
mircea_popescu: no luke, you're the one that likes to think you're important.
davout: regardless of which of you is the most important, my cock is still the biggest, measured in metric, imperial or tonal
mircea_popescu: who ever heard of this bullshit even, guy does 2% of the hash, is going to establish whether the one aplication deriving actual use out of bitcoin dies or not.
davout: mircea_popescu: i couldn't tell them apart, balls were touching
jcpham: i like what davout said
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 922 @ 0.00069964 = 0.6451 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4161 @ 0.00069998 = 2.9126 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2017 @ 0.00069999 = 1.4119 BTC [+]
dub: so glad I'm at work right now
davout: it's in romanian, you just made me waste one trilema free article
davout: mirea_popescu: just because i'm poor doesn't mean i know how to read romanian
davout: there are like pictures of a black rod or whatever it is
davout: mircea_popescu: well, at least thank you! i'm starting to feel slightly amused :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.75815152 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it's been my go-to for internet cock competitions for years now
davout: nah, i kinda feel ok having little experience with black rods
luke-jr_: davout: heh, I didn't say I was important :P
luke-jr_: davout: I prefer to argue with logic, not "none of you other people matter"
mircea_popescu: "there is one actual aplication making btc useful. we should act like we matter tho we don't and pretend like we can kill it tho we can't"
davout: the "none of you other people matter" attitude has one big advantage : you don't really need to justify yourself
mircea_popescu: o, wait. his logic reminds me of this chick i fired on the 2nd date.
davout: but that only matters IMO if you have the desire to be right
mircea_popescu: i couldn't care less, honestly, but the pompous miner ass is getting on my nerves.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11650 @ 0.00069999 = 8.1549 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: so anyone actually know how much hash elgius is doing these days ? they don't seem to have it on the main page anywhere.
davout: bitcoin attrcat people with various kinds of mental disorders, they are an advantage in making it progress, but sometimes they hinder social interaction i beliebe
mircea_popescu: dude check it out! not one within the past hour! sdice is going to die omg!
Namworld: why, oh WHY would block size be limited?
mircea_popescu: ya well, if i finally buy an asic and start mining 1tb blocks just to be an ass
iz: it's because everyone has a copy of the blockchain
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: SD's DDoS isn't useful at all
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10089 @ 0.00069999 = 7.0622 BTC [+]
kakobreklaa: splitting the size of blocks into smaller ones doesnt fix any problem really
Namworld: If the blockchain can't handle SD
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr its business model is THE ONLY USEFUL THING BITCOIN DOES AT THE MOMENT.
Namworld: It can't handle anything serious
mircea_popescu: maybe one day it'll do something else, or something more.
davout: how much has SD paid in fees atm ?
mircea_popescu: but so far, the fact that people can s.dice is the only utility btc has.
Luke-Jr: Namworld: not even VISA handles this kind of attack
iz: kakobreklaa: it solves the problem of the blockchain growing too fast, by replacing it with the problem of transaction with low transaction fees take significantly longer to process than transactions with larger transaction fees
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: you seem to not know what useful means
iz: kakobreklaa: which is a much better problem to have
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr no, i know what useful means. that's why i'm on the money side.
kakobreklaa: iz there is no iniciative for a miner not to accept 1satoshi fee TX
davout: Luke-Jr: i politely beg to differ, it's a feature, not a bug, if you do not want these delicious transaction fees, don't mine the SD txes, *boom* problem solved
mircea_popescu: davout he thinks this will have any other result than him being pushed out of mining.
Luke-Jr: kakobreklaa: every transaction increases the risk your block is orphaned
iz: kakobreklaa: when they start bumping into the blocksize limitation, there will be -- and they will prioritize the transactions with higher transaction fees over the ones that have lower ones, since they get the transaction fees if they solve the block
Luke-Jr: davout: the risk of orphaned blocks from SD is much greater than any fees they pay
davout: Luke-Jr: why would a block be orphaned because it includes a SD tx ?
iz: kakobreklaa: but they have the same incentives ala transaction fees
Luke-Jr: davout: every transaction increases the time it takes to verify the block, which occurs before each node begins relaying it
kakobreklaa: anyone can fork a more profitable bitcoind
Luke-Jr: davout: SD-including blocks often take minutes to cross the network
iz: kakobreklaa: how would you fork a more profitable bitcoind?
davout: Luke-Jr: so miners will have a reduced incentive to mine them. boom, solution is built-in the problem
iz: but then it wouldn't be bitcoin
iz: and you would be starting where bitcoin started.. at 0
Namworld: I understand that the blockchain contains all the history of each individual coins?
iz: kakobreklaa: then it wouldn't be a fork
Luke-Jr: davout: exactly, that's part of why rational miners block it
iz: it would be a takeover
davout: Luke-Jr: so what's your point ?
mircea_popescu: <Luke-Jr> davout: exactly, that's part of why rational miners block it << this is "no true scotsman"
iz: sure, but it won't work on the network
Namworld: What kind of history does it keep Luke?
davout: wtf does "no true scotsman" mean ?
iz: kakobreklaa: the non-standard clients still conform to all the bitcoin network rules though
Luke-Jr: davout: it's a logical fallacy that mircea_popescu doesn't understand
davout: kakobreklaa: there no non-standard mining clients that i know of
iz: if they don't they won't work
mircea_popescu: dude, fact of the matter is, the 99.8% miners that aren't you do mine it.
Namworld: So it strictly tracks x.xx goes from a to b
mircea_popescu: calling them irrational is exactly the sort of popmassery that you got in trouble for earlier.
iz: i'm not going to argue with you, i'll let you remain ignorant if you so desire
Namworld: You can't distinguish a satoshi from another?
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 20 @ 0.35 = 7 BTC [+]
iz: kakobreklaa: see my prior line
iz: i'll let someone else explain to you where you are wrong
mircea_popescu: s.dice did about half of all transactions to date, and paid about half of all fees paid to date.
davout: kakobreklaa iz what are you arguing about ? may i join in your argument ? i feel bored and would enjoy bitchslapping whichever one of you two is wrong
kakobreklaa: about nonstandard client making a rand() return 4; call
iz: kakobreklaa: it's still conforming to the bitcoin network protocol, even if it's not implemented exactly the same
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.3099 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.3099 = 0.9297 BTC [-]
Namworld: Luke-JR: ok, suppose someone has 100 BTC in his address and he receives 50 "tainted" coins. He now has 150 BTC. If he then spend part of it, there's no distinction between the two?
iz: in the same way linux and windows both conform to TCP, even if they aren't implemented exactly the same
iz: and you can fingerprint differences between them
mircea_popescu: and when did this chan become an unholy cross between -otc, -mining and -nonsense!
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: spammers did more than half of all emails to date, and paid about the same in bandwidth costs!
davout: there is no spec for the bitcoin protocol, point = moot
iz: but the two systems can still communicate with each other
Luke-Jr: Namworld: Bitcoin does not work with balances either.
iz: the "spec" is by code, and defined by the current bitcoin client that everyone is running
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr that's possibly the most braindamaged, broken analogy you came up with so far
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: nope, it's pretty much exactly equivalent
iz: davout: these are rules like "block reward halving times" and such
iz: you can't just change those rules to "fork" bitcoin
mircea_popescu: there's only transactions. not good, not bad, not holy or purple.
iz: and suddenly have a new version of bitcoin that is just "better"
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: no, it isn't.
iz: these rules include the block size limitation
dub: iz: of course you can, with a mining majority
mircea_popescu: we'll never agree, and your choices are either submit or i'll kill you.
davout: iz: just because there are rules everybody agrees upon doesn't mean there is a proper spec, this has been discussed like a million times, and it is why i wholeheartedly welcome the cbitcoin initiative
iz: dub: it's not the miners that matter, it's the bitcoin CLIENTS
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: Bitcoin users have agreed to store FINANCIAL TRANSFERS in the blockchain. Not DNS. Not game activity. Not notifications.
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: anything other than a direct financial transaction is abusing the communal agreement on what the blockchain is for
davout: Luke-Jr: please speak for yourself
iz: dub: under the scenario you described, a mining majority could produce a block that a different majority of bitcoin clients rejects and disagrees with
dub: kakobreklaa: yeah, I know this too, just cant help myself sometimes.
mircea_popescu: davout when you're poor your only practical avenue is to speak "for the community"
awkorama: Luke-Jr: who told you that bitcoin is money ?
iz: there's a difference between the majority of miners and the majority of bitcoin clients on the p2p network
iz: or do you think those are the same?
Luke-Jr: davout: it's not about "one person is okay with using it for FOO", it's about "everyone using it is doing it for FOO"
davout: Luke-Jr: I was under the impression you put words in my mouth, i don't give a fuck about what goes into the blockchain, be it financial transactions or religious messages if you see what i mean
Namworld: I think every x blocks, there's some milestone achieved?
Luke-Jr: davout: you're one person.
Namworld: I don't see the problem with SD transactions.
Luke-Jr: 100% of Bitcoin users have agreed to financial transactions. There is no other such agreement in this context.
mircea_popescu: Namworld simply put, the problem with sd transactions is that sd made 20k last month, in btc. that's 400k usd at going rates.
Luke-Jr: Namworld: they're abusing the blockchain for signalling
mircea_popescu: higher level services always take the cream, commodified supports suck it.
Namworld: blockchain is free to use. For anything.
dub: this is a religious debate, stop it
Namworld: This is my opinion of how it should be.
kakobreklaa: Luke-Jr, are you going to shed tears for us?
dub: I'm annoyed at SD too but market forces will prevail
Namworld: plus we don't need the whole blockchain history to do transactions, do we?
dub: (because its no longer possible to run a node on the hardware I was running it on)
Luke-Jr: Namworld: the unanimous bitcoin community does not agree.
iz: so.. maybe someone can seriously clear something up for me.. when a block is validated by the rest of the bitcoin network.. that's done per bitcoin client on the p2p network, right? not scaled with that client's mining power in H/S
Luke-Jr: Namworld: and yes, the entire blockchain history must be kept forever right now
Namworld: Yeah, but it could get modified
jcpham: i'm not a fan of the 5GB blockchain
Luke-Jr: Namworld: you have a genius idea on how?
dub: iz: yes, you are wrong
iz: so.. if you have a majority of the hashing power, but not a majority of clients.. even if you were to change the bitcoin client rules, you couldn't get these new rules into the block chain
iz: even if you had a majority of the hashing power
dub: iz: no, you are wrong
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr stop arguing like a stupid cunt. you say something, stand by it. where is the motherfucking unanymous community!
iz: how would that work then, dub?
pigeons: no maxblocksize is not there to keep the size of the blockchain down, i thought it was there so blocks can be verified and propogated sanely
iz: how would the old clients behave via the new rules?
Namworld: We could probably have a new "balance" block created every 10k blocks lets say, stating all balances per address, and work with 2 or 3 such balance blocks and cut the previous ones as we go on.
pigeons: there isn't "balances per address"
Luke-Jr: Namworld: and how will new nodes know to trust that?
iz: kakobreklaa: please direct further questions about why you are wrong towards luke or someone you might take more seriously than me
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4829 @ 0.00069515 = 3.3569 BTC [-]
kakobreklaa: what the hell are you babling about, you can mine offline for all we care
jcpham: the merkles. use the merkles
Luke-Jr: awkorama: if you delete the history, they're all 1 block long
mircea_popescu: it's shocking to see how little understood bitcoin is.
awkorama: mircea_popescu: compared to other currencies you mean ?
jcpham: i doubt anything actually shocks mircea_popescu
davout: BREAKING NEWS : BITCOIN IS NON-TRIVIAL TECHNOLOGY
jcpham: so what exactly is the dicussion
jcpham: i've been reading for a few minutes and i get lost
mircea_popescu: because rational miners haven't been including its transactions
dub: jcpham: were talking about how mircea_popescu's cock is bigger than davout's
awkorama: ohw is that rational? don't they get transaction fees ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5155 @ 0.00069157 = 3.565 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069003 = 2.9816 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2674 @ 0.00069003 = 1.8451 BTC [-]
kakobreklaa: mircea_popescu i think mtgox payes luke to include their txes
dub: girls cant have cocks too?
mircea_popescu: kakobreklaa ya, i seem to recall this incident in octomber last year...
Namworld: We can probably have on those every 10k blocks balance block some hash of the previous blocks inserted, one for each. If someone cares to verify them, download the historical data and check those blocks
dub: THEY CAN IF THERE IS CONCESUS
awkorama: we just switched to random talk here
jcpham: i think pools and miners should have that option
jcpham: got could pay for priority txns
Ukyo: Namworld: too.. pm :)
jcpham: i'm all for monetizing hashpower
dub: jcpham: they pay for feeless txns, or did
Namworld: The idea would be to assume that old data and lenght is accurate
Namworld: and verify them if you want to
davout: Namworld: there is no such thing as an address balance, you misunderstand the way transactions work
Namworld: but regular users could work on the short version
Namworld: I know there is no address balance currently
davout: it's not even "currently"
jcpham: damn where did the 99 users come from
davout: transactions have scripts, that may or may not be more complex than N addresses output to M addresses with an optional TX fee
jcpham: bitcoin is ruining freenode
davout: Namworld: this was already discussed back in 2010
Luke-Jr: awkorama: SD costs miners more than the fees cover
Luke-Jr: awkorama: it also harms Bitcoin, reducing the value of them
mircea_popescu: <jcpham> bitcoin is ruining freenode <<< it is a testament to bitcoin's state that this statement is true when everyone knows how fucking ruined freenode was to begin with.
dub: lilo ruined freenode
Namworld: other than verifying the transactions?
Ukyo: technically, SD is paying miners
mircea_popescu: dude, srsly. stop with all the rationalization bullshit. just come out clean, say it. they make money , you'd like some, you think it's unfair etc.
Ukyo: they are or were a large portion of txn fees being paidout
Luke-Jr: Namworld: every single node relaying the block needs to verify the transactions before it sends it on, so block propagation time increases and blocks get orphaned
dub: and dub has to throw away hardware
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: but those fees were never meant to cover the ACTUAL COSTS of mining the transaction
Namworld: and @davout: Ah well nevermind then. Just a random proposal, would require rewriting of how bitcoin network accepts transactions.
Ukyo: Then raise the fees
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: they're only there to DISCOURAGE spammers; which doesn't work for SD because it has an unlimited supply of idiot gamblers to cover the expense
Ukyo: thts not how I understand it
Ukyo: txn fees are there to replace the BTC as its goes away
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: yes, raising fees is the "obvious" solution
Ukyo: or else when all coins are mined, no one will mine..
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: problem is, until Bitcoin reaches critical mass, raising fees will kill adoption
mircea_popescu: raising fees will just mean other miners get it, end of story.
mircea_popescu: what eats him, basically, is that pretty much no miner cares about what he thinks on the matter.
iz: can't SD just raise fees for their transactions?
Luke-Jr: iz: yes, miners would be forced to raise fees high enough that the gamblers stopped playing basically
davout: Luke-Jr: code a forl that doesn't relay sd txes, i'll use it, seriously.
iz: or better yet, have the fees influence the % of payout slightly
pigeons: iz: SD can't control what fees their users pay, and the fees would have to be very high to negate the negative effect
Ukyo: we are already at one half reward
Ukyo: txn fees should go up
Ukyo: to account for that
mircea_popescu: this is for smart people. why do you keep torturing yourself ?
Ukyo: that was the whole original basis
mircea_popescu: you can't cope, there's no rule every idiot under the sun has to be involved.
iz: pigeons: can't they just decide to reject any transactions that have a tx fee below X?
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: the basis was that ADOPTION would bring MORE fees
pigeons: yeah fees have gone waaay down since the start
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: not that fees would go up
mircea_popescu: do what cablepair did, focus on delivering rental party equipment or something
Ukyo: its been how long now
Luke-Jr: (fees will go up too, but that's not the main method)
Ukyo: and that basis has failed
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: it hasn't. SD is just forcing it to fail
Ukyo: 3 years and were getting .1btc per
iz: all they have to do is reject transactions with tx fees below what they want the new min to be
iz: and other mining pools could still use normal lower tx fee, right?
Ukyo: most ppl dont care about a 0.001 txn fee
Ukyo: most ppl pay 0.1 ~1btc on normal fees to other things
Ukyo: its priority optional anyways
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: low fees is currently a point driving bitcoin adoption
Ukyo: that was the basiss to get ppl in
mircea_popescu: i bet you nickles to dollars that increasing the fee would simply increase the % of tx belonging to sd.
Ukyo: has nothing to do with it
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: if you want bitcoin to succeed, increasing fees at this point is not a real option
Ukyo: bitcoin adoption is being driven by media
iz: i think part of the issue is that btc is deflationary and can be difficult for new users to get currency for
mircea_popescu: no, actually... bitcoin adoption is being driven by satoshi dice and mpex, in that order.
Ukyo: and its anoniminity, etc
pigeons: yeah i think this artificallhy low fee structure we currently have is unsustainable obviously
mircea_popescu: all the blathering online a very vehehehehery distant third.
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: Bitcoin isn't anonymous.
iz: so even though a 0.005 tx fee isn't that much in real currency, it can seem like a lot if you only have 0.1 BTC to your name
Ukyo: tell that to the media
Ukyo: which reports it as such
Ukyo: thinking they are anon
Ukyo: getting to use bitcoins
Ukyo: Luke-Jr: : thats rediculas
Ukyo: your setting a president to encourage ppl to block address
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: that also helps bitcoin along
davout_: well Luke-Jr somehow has a point, as a simple node i really have no interest in relaying SD txes
Ukyo: luke: i thikn eleigus pool is hurting bitcoin
dub: Ukyo: this is surprising to you? He has destroyed entire chains by 51% them and blocking all transactions.
Ukyo: i will ask all the other miners to block it
Ukyo: you get to push ideas however right/wrong they are
iz: oh.. it's cuz of the relaying
davout_: i don't mean to say what other should do, but if i had an easy to way to not relay txes matching certain patterns i'd definitely do it
mircea_popescu: Ukyo it's possibly hurting, but it's so tiny as to not really matter.
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: well, I only push right ideas.
davout_: Luke-Jr: one day you'll understand that "right" and "wrong" are just your imagination
Ukyo: i mean, everyone else in here seems to be argueing aginst you
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: to a degree. and miners have the freedom to ignore transactions by design.
Ukyo: so obvously other ppl dont shre your opinion
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: well, mostly because not many people here have a clue
Luke-Jr: and mircea_popescu chases off the people who do
Ukyo: pp just dont agree that you need low fees to encourage ppl
Ukyo: mircea_popescu: : no, he lurks everywhere regardles
davout: Luke-Jr: sense, and non-sense are dividing stuff, it's like putting stuff in little boxes, right, wrong, good, bad, white, black small romanian cock, hard french rod, these are all imaginary
Ukyo: he lurks in my chans even hehe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00069038 = 7.18 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00069003 = 2.2771 BTC [-]
Ukyo: raising the txn fees, will re-encourage miners
Ukyo: more mining sustainability
Ukyo: increase more interest in ppl wanting to join bitcoin to mine
mircea_popescu: Ukyo not rly. the exchange rate is high atm, everyone's mining anyway
jborkl: Holy shit, you know how much crap I read to catch up
Ukyo: and if blocks paid out higher
dub: Ukyo: mining is not the use case for bitcoin
jborkl: Luke, just buy sdice stock,
Ukyo: even more ppl would jump
davout: Luke-Jr: if you want to be actually productive here is my advice : modify your fork so people can filter txes they wish to relay using arbitrary criteria, like regexp on the receiver address for example, make it consensual (that's probably where it's going to be hard for you) enough so it is accepted upstream
Ukyo: dub: it maintains the network. its a small use case
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: btw, to elaborate on the precedent-of-blocking-addresses bit… Bitcoin is only workable if every transaction uses a new address anyway, so discouraging reusable ones is a good thing
Ukyo: I think txn fees should slowly increase over time, instead of "No more bitcoins generated. so BAM huge txn fee"
Luke-Jr: davout: that'd make it slower :/
Ukyo: or you could put in a small txn fee at that time, and most miners wont care...
Luke-Jr: davout: right now, I'm not even decoding the address
jborkl: Well I mine- and to make more income I bought sdice ---with blocks from mining
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr that's good sometimes. fixed addresses enhance anonimity and are good for branding purposes.
pigeons: satoshi always said miners are supposed to decide which transactions to include in blocks
davout: Luke-Jr: well do, empower people to vote with their relay capability
Luke-Jr: jborkl: I would advise selling it.
davout: because atm nodes are rewarded for their hashing power, but not for the relaying
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4026 @ 0.00069003 = 2.7781 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5074 @ 0.00069003 = 3.5012 BTC [-]
davout: it's either going to evolve into "relay gets fees too", or "miners-only" IMHO
jborkl: No, thanks I will keep it
Luke-Jr: davout: I only bother with dice because it hurts me really. not sure I care enough to spend the time on your suggestion, though I'd encourage you to bring it up as a possibility in -dev sometime when more devs are around
pigeons: let's ask RealSolid what he thinks
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C200T] 2 @ 0.14735296 = 0.2947 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C200T] 494 @ 0.12990002 = 64.1706 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C190T] 1 @ 0.16454909 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C190T] 496 @ 0.14947113 = 74.1377 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C180T] 496 @ 0.17148704 = 85.0576 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C170T] 490 @ 0.19578159 = 95.933 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C160T] 2 @ 0.22221004 = 0.4444 BTC [-]
Luke-Jr: davout: plus, I expect such a potentially-controversial change would go over easier if someone else did it
Ukyo: now we are getting to it
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 100 @ 0.01 = 1 BTC [+]
davout: mircea_popescu: if not we're going to end up with a network made only of miners, and miners won't have an incentive to relay fee-paying txes to their neighbors
Ukyo: your pool is suffering
iz: relaying is just the p2p part though, right? even non-mining clients relay transactions?
Ukyo: and its a personal issue
Luke-Jr: Ukyo: was. until I blcoked dice.
davout: Luke-Jr: code it and I'll submit it
Ukyo: then your done, let it be
Ukyo: moving on to a new subject
Ukyo: are still available
Luke-Jr: davout: like I said, not really sure it's worth my time :P
Ukyo: and will be relaunched soon
Luke-Jr: davout: most big miners and pools can compile.. :P
Ukyo: there are a great many orders that were placd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2437 @ 0.00069003 = 1.6816 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11211 @ 0.00069002 = 7.7358 BTC [-]
Ukyo: and those qty's will become available soon
davout: Luke-Jr: put your time where your mouth is
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P200T] 30 @ 0.16714568 = 5.0144 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P200T] 970 @ 0.1706684 = 165.5483 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <Ukyo> and will be relaunched soon << that clusterfuck,...
davout: anyway, the cock measurment contest is waiting for contenders after the flawless french victory over romania
Luke-Jr: pigeons: best to just ignore trolls
mircea_popescu: davout im sorry, i must have missed that over the sound of you slurping it ?!
dub: of course teh french word for victory is surrender, right?
davout: mircea_popescu: if one day we ever physically meet i will insist on an actual penile measurment being performed by a local official
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.75815152 = 6.8234 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.76450001 = 1.529 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.76450001 = 6.116 BTC [+]
jcpham: i'm not willing to purchase mining hardware with bitcoin
mircea_popescu: why not ? you too could be making pennies to the dollar over high risk capital costs!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00069496 = 3.0029 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5579 @ 0.00069515 = 3.8782 BTC [+]
pigeons: i'm certainly not paying for mining equipment that actually exists already
dub: jcpham: I'll swap my bfl preorder for your mom