dub: typical chinese, 'of course i lied, lol'
jcpham: but out of the box ready to mine with software is a game changer
mircea_popescu: jcpham someone was opining that they got 300 chips of which 10 work
jcpham: i haven't read ny of the forum fud
jcpham: surrounding any of the asic stuff
dub: I burnt out on it pretty quick
dub: >9000 troll to 1 usefull post
dub: you should resell those
jcpham: i'm not even interested in digests
dub: make some more money out of your girl
jcpham: -otc is getting or is like that now too
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 13.8 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "ASIC's are not a natural technological generation leap like going from CPU to GPU was. ASIC's are simply specialized processing units made specifically for Bitcoin. Which i do not beleive is following the original intentions of Satoshi, for many reasons."
mircea_popescu: "Would it be even remotely possible to force the change in sha256 bitcoin algorith to something else that asic and fpga devices couldnt compute?
mircea_popescu: We started off with a bitcoin that anyone could use and now were forced to buy stuff we dont really want.
mircea_popescu: I realise that there are some ppl that allready invested in asic and fpga, but ton off ppl are unsatisfied with this.
mircea_popescu: Do U think btc should move away from sha256 and let "normal" people the chance ?"
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 112 @ 0.0089 = 0.9968 BTC [-]
jurov: they'll rather whine instead of improving litecoin
jcpham: where did that text come from
jcpham: mircea_popescu but 16 posts means he learned a lot about the bitty coins
mircea_popescu: chinese scammer impersonating or actualy avalon guy scamming ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 798 @ 0.01 = 7.98 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.0075 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 258 @ 0.00730771 = 1.8854 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00734366 = 2.2031 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6992 @ 0.00065546 = 4.583 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4088 @ 0.00065567 = 2.6804 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyone here can give me some data on mining implements ?
Bugpowder: So are the taking the second order money before anyone confirms receiving a functional unit?
gribble: The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation:
http://gribble.sourceforge.net/ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00064923 = 3.7331 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064699 = 2.7956 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5379 @ 0.00064693 = 3.4798 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.025 BTC [-]
Ukto: Namworld: btw, I think those bonus divs were a great use of the pre-timed payouts to get some sales. I think it helped alot for getting shares out. :)
gribble: use the 'gentime' command instead
gribble: The average time to generate a block at 185000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 2968775.33208, is 19 hours, 8 minutes, and 44 seconds
Namworld: yeah. Well I had indeed made great profit trading options...
Namworld: Bonuses I give on BTC-BOND are a very small fraction of what I make.
Ukto: and its not required, so its pretty cool :)
Ukto: reminds me of when I had my JAH shares on glbse, and rasta paid divs nightly, even though he only had to paid weekly.
burnside: Ukto, just so we're clear. Anytime you post something that is incorrect, wrong, or misleading, I'm going to post a follow up with the truth. If that bothers you, I'm sorry, but it has to be done. If you don't want to be called a liar, then don't say definitively that something is true when it is not.
Ukto: ah, how about a rebuttle where the statement was?
Ukto: A bit overkill for forums isnt it?
Ukto: for something that to this moment looks to be ture?
Ukto: still have no idea what asking about outstanding shares has to do with lieing or fud
Ukto: unless your whole goal is to troll and try to make me look bad ?
burnside: How could it look to be true that the order book is not backed? Orders you cannot afford get canceled... the functionality is plain and simple. And, you did not even try it?
burnside: The looking bad part I think you accomplish just fine on your own.
Ukto: i cant force wsomeone to buy my shares.
Ukto: so if I have 20btc, and put 6 5btc bids on assets
Ukto: which ones get canceled?
burnside: you can't put 6 4 btc bids with 20 btc...
pigeons: the question is when do orders you can't afford get cancelled
Ukto: you reserves are per asset
Ukto: or did deprived lie?
burnside: across assets, sure, but not on the same asset
Ukto: i never said same asset
Ukto: so lets go back to $20
burnside: yes, the rest of how it works has been beaten to death
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 200 @ 0.01 = 2 BTC [+]
Ukto: one 5btc order clears
pigeons: ok it cancelled other orders
Ukto: are all teh rest canceled?
Ukto: pigeons: all of them ?
pigeons: it isn't transparent how it chose
burnside: ahh, good question. on the bids side your highest bids get canceled.
Ukto: ahh, and its instant?
Ukto: apparently from the sound of pigeons
burnside: it's part of the order process
burnside: and not all of them, just the ones you can no longer afford
pigeons: when it accepts your order it cancells others for insufficient funds
Ukto: yup, thats cool and nice to know
pigeons: just don't accept the order
Ukto: but not what I was going on about. :)
Ukto: I was saying that in my opinion i feel its a lie to show X btc worth on the books when its not actually there
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 4100 @ 0.007395 = 30.3195 BTC [+]
Ukto: and can be abused for pumping
Ukto: whcih is why the major stock exchange do not do it
burnside: I thought about that pigeons, but that's a ui issue where I decided that the order they're placing should rank higher than orders they already had. (what they want to do NOW outranks what they wanted to do yesterday.)
Namworld: How is it a lie? all bids on the book can be filled right away
pigeons: sometimes you guestimate, if it lets me do it i mathjed right, not here ;)
Namworld: It can just removes demand on other assets at the same time.
Ukto: Namworld: so all 6 of my 5btc pids could instnatly be filled even tho I have 20btc?
pigeons: its not fake cause it cancels immediately i agree, but also i dont think its user friendly, shouldnt accept the order
Ukto: so say I am dumping my shares of all my assets
TradeFortress: inb4 race attack causes account balance to go negative
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00065006 = 3.8679 BTC [+]
burnside: locking on the backend would essentially work such that only your first 20btc of bids would go through
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1464 @ 0.00064716 = 0.9474 BTC [-]
Ukto: i look, and see hey, if i sell 500 share sof each asset, i should get X
Ukto: i start with asset A
Ukto: and now low and behold
Ukto: the books are dramatically changed
Ukto: and now I cant get what I expected
Ukto: because it wasnt actually there
Ukto: you could play games
Ukto: and say its no diff than a bot auto moving orders
Ukto: but there is a level of expectancy
Ukto: so that is my opinion
burnside: that's always the case though, on a larger exchange the books are always changing.
Ukto: as a trader, I like to know that the books are there
burnside: it's accurate as of when you load the book
Ukto: and that my own actions are not damanging other possible actions
Namworld: yeah. Orderbook is true only for the asset you're currently looking at... I don't see the problem with bids on other assets disappearing upon filling that orderbook
Ukto: Namworld: that is true.
Ukto: thus it is my opinion
Namworld: It only prevents evaluating all orderbooks at once
Ukto: and how I feel about it. :)
Namworld: but evaluating one individually will always show an accurate orderbook and that's all I care about.
burnside: we don't make any claims anywhere for "XX in bids are up across the whole exchange RIGHT NOW"
Ukto: I think, also to some degree, it misrepresents market size as well
pigeons: i just spent 2 btc on btc-bond to learn how this works
burnside: heh, thanks pigeons, we need the volume!
Namworld: It works by giving you 0.0006 BTC daily
burnside: errr, assbot has been pretty quiet tho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.0006543 = 6.4776 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00065561 = 2.8329 BTC [+]
Ukto: So in the end, I told the truth, that you can set bids on a per asset basis, right?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 928 @ 0.00065567 = 0.6085 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6515 @ 0.00065602 = 4.274 BTC [+]
burnside: no, you lied. you stated unequivocally that you could place 100 btc bids on all assets, withdraw 100 btc, and all your bids would remain.
Ukto: and I put in my reubutle it was based on what I could see
Ukto: and what your system showed
Ukto: which you stated was accurate
burnside: [12:05] <Ukto> on btct, I can fill my account with 100btc, put up to 100btc orders on each asset, and withdraw the 100btc
burnside: [12:05] <Ukto> and then its a complete, lie
burnside: [12:06] <Ukto> Regardless of 'pumping the numbers', i think traders have a right to knwo that a bid is actually backed, and not just a fake number on the books.
burnside: as of the time you load the book
Ukto: on a per asset basis
Ukto: when looking at the overall market page
Ukto: When you withdraw or transfer it cancels your orders you can no longer afford. Plain. Simple. Effective. I even have a display on the withdrawal page clearly showing the maximum you can withdraw without orders getting canceled -- AND, this behavior has been discussed to death in the btct/litecoinglobal threads.
burnside: I don't say anything about bid depth or order depth on the market.
Ukto: Clearly, plain and simple.. wow... that must be the cause of the problem right there.
Ukto: I have 35.5 btc in my account, I have a 35btc order up for a security right now.
Ukto: The withdraw page clearly, plainly, and simply says I have 35.5btc available to withdraw. No further details.
Ukto: you state current bid price
Ukto: which if one of those is touched, could drasticlly change others
Ukto: thats not here nor there
Ukto: we all have our diff opinions on it
burnside: "No further details" is another piece of FUD. right below the max withdraw: "On the Order Book: YY BTC (not on the order book: XX-YY BTC)"
Ukto: the word max is not on my page
Ukto: nothing about a max
Ukto: it just give sme a balance
burnside: you have to set a withdrawal address before withdrawal is even available...
Ukto: nothing about order cancelation
Ukto: it doesnt say its not available
Ukto: sorry if the site is confusing
burnside: obviously any withdrawal is unavailable until you set an address, it says it in plain english...
burnside: "Withdrawal becomes available once you have set your withdrawal address"
Ukto: glad it will be an option
Ukto: i'll take my 35btc. ;)
Ukto: as i said, I was talking
Ukto: with a couple people
Ukto: if it was someone else
Ukto: would you have taken it to the forums
Ukto: and called them a liar?
Ukto: for making a simple mistake?
Ukto: because there is no documentation anywhere on yoru site
Ukto: you are picking on me specifically
Ukto: to lower my credibility.
Ukto: so just stop. k? :)
burnside: I'll be honest, I hold you to a higher standard. There was no simple mistake. What you stated was not true and you stated it clearly, intentionally, and in a way that damages the company.
Ukto: soudns liek things you have done on teh forums
Ukto: guess were both the same. :)
Ukto: except I was just talking with a few friends
Ukto: where you have gone out of your way to make false assertions
burnside: that may be, but I don't think so. I haven't made anything up about BitFunder and stated it as fact.
Ukto: then you really dont realize when you make false assertions ?
Ukto: this is really a matter of not thinking things through ?
Ukto: or cecking facts before making statements?
Ukto: Apparently that was me when just talking on irc
Ukto: as I clicked through things
Ukto: trying to udnerstand something that was not documented
burnside: I've made lots of mistakes, mostly in terms of getting sucked into petty bickering.
Ukto: but your the one who continues it
Ukto: and the puts it out for EVERYONE to see
burnside: I think we've come full circle: [15:00] <burnside> Ukto, just so we're clear. Anytime you post something that is incorrect, wrong, or misleading, I'm going to post a follow up with the truth. If that bothers you, I'm sorry, but it has to be done. If you don't want to be called a liar, then don't say definitively that something is true when it is not.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2857 @ 0.00064716 = 1.8489 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 293 @ 0.00064693 = 0.1896 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00064434 = 5.5735 BTC [-]
Ukto: Alright, so from now on when I ask any questions about your site which does some very unconvential things w/o any supportive documentation, i will create a new irc user
Ukto: so you dont have to hold it to your high standards
Ukto: and expectancy to be able to read your mind
Namworld: Ukto, put a withdrawal address and check the form that appears...
Ukto: and do everything you expect them to do
Ukto: Namworld: yes, i see that now
Namworld: and take a screenshot again...
Ukto: Namworld: as I said, I was just ahving a discussion here on irc
Ukto: if you for example or someone else had said
Ukto: "hey, actually it should cancel"\
Ukto: "should show a max withdraw"
Ukto: i would have said "oh, let me check"
Ukto: just like when you answered my question about outstanding shares
burnside: this is a public chan, just as public as the forums. if you want the privacy (and to spread the FUD privately) you can pm anyone you want about it.
Ukto: burnside: you should post a live irc log on btct
Ukto: i will get you a list of all bitcoin related channels
Ukto: so you can monitor them all
Ukto: and even the ones on all the other networks
Ukto: so you can critisize any and all users
Ukto: that make a simple misudnerstanding of your site
Ukto: you admitted it yourself, youy hold me in higher regards and expectancies
Ukto: but I am no different then another btct user
Ukto: i look for the same documentation to yoru custom stuff
Ukto: i use the same interface
Ukto: i get confused just as easily as others would
Ukto: as Namworld said, he had to spend nearly $40 to understnad your system
burnside: There's no confusion in stating as fact something that is not true, nor possible.
Ukto: i dont know whats possible
Ukto: where is it in the faq?
Ukto: I should have wrote "could"
Ukto: and over dramatizing something
Ukto: you wanna defend yourself, then defend yourself to the people that i outright lied to
Ukto: you dont have to go "WOH IS ME" to the whole world
Namworld: [18:31] <Ukto> as Namworld said, he had to spend nearly $40 to understnad your system
burnside: I'd rather not end up with all this attention. But I can't leave other users confused based on posts of a competing exchange operator. You of all people should be able to wrap your brain around that.
burnside: I think it was pigeons that said that he'd spent 2 BTC making trades to test Ukto's statements.
Ukto: might have been, will scroll back up
Ukto: Namworld: sorry if i misread that :)
Ukto: yeah, it was. [17:14] <pigeons> i just spent 2 btc on btc-bond to learn how this works
dub: this just in, IRC is srs bzns
error4733: hey, totally off topic, a friend made some wallet with old audio tape, i found this awesome, so i share ;)
dub: looks like two iphone cases stuck together
Ukto: I bet they would sell like hotcakes
Ukto: wonder if hw would consider marketing em? :)
Ukto: i think teens would like em
Ukto: mid/late teens, mebbe early 20s
dub: I think you mean 'hipsters'
Ukto: esp. if you can "build your own" selecinting diff tapes, colors etc on the site
kakobrekla: the result of that would be a bunch of ugly wallets
duketogo: the tapes will all have to be bands that "nobody has heard about"
Ukto: duketogo: you think so? :/
Ukto: I figured if they actually bought the tapes and had receipts
Ukto: and just destroyed them it was fair game
Ukto: rather than making fake dupes
kakobrekla: resell the case to one party and the music rights to another
Ukto: kakobrekla: not sure end users can just split the rights like that tho :/
dub: I thought duketogo was talking about the hipsters desire to be original by listening to obscure shit
error4733: maybe put the music in a usb stick and you sell with the wallet
duketogo: aye, the hipster will not want to be seen with a tape wallet featuring a band that had any kind of commercial success ;)
dub: preferrably put a small amount of explosives in there instead of a usb stick to incinerate the hipster
error4733: and yes obv he want marketing em but the prob is the production
dub: the other problem of course is what a hipster needs a wallet for?
dub: money? mom buys everythign
error4733: i got one but i'm not a fking hipsters
kakobrekla: i got one too, if we are talking about moms.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064455 = 2.7851 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3579 @ 0.00064434 = 2.3061 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: >>its also a good game choice I think as its not totally trivial to create a bot for it.
dub: hehe Challenge Accepted
Namworld: fuck... can someone make me an uber competent bot?
kakobrekla: like one that makes you breakfast and gives head?
mircea_popescu: everyone that comprehends mining plz to read and comment
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.0073845 = 3.6923 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00064667 = 2.0693 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: anyone got anything good to watch for reccomendation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064461 = 2.7854 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5271 @ 0.00064434 = 3.3963 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00064374 = 4.4418 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1850 @ 0.00063666 = 1.1778 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12058 @ 0.00063598 = 7.6686 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: bah i stay up to write docs for miners, ppl sell mpoe. THIS IS THE THANKS I GET!
smickles: don't look at me, i just leveraged long
assbot: I cooked, I cleaned, and I sewed, and I have a right to get--
smickles: i might be shadow-banned on reddit?
smickles: kakobrekla: linked to blocked content?
smickles: mircea_popescu: that's just it, direct links work, but check the /r/bitcoin page or the /r/bitcoin/new
kakobrekla: i guess you could replace -- with 'shit'.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1700 @ 0.00732036 = 12.4446 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 150 @ 0.007395 = 1.1093 BTC [+]
dub: might be blocked in 'murica, cuts a little close to home
assbot: It's so strange that you don't remember any of your poetry.
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00711564 / 0.00735027 / 0.007395 (85447 shares, 628.06 BTC), 7D: 0.00085848 / 0.00547144 / 0.0075 (1181450 shares, 6,464.24 BTC), 30D: 0.00085848 / 0.00440993 / 0.0075 (9302204 shares, 41,022.10 BTC)
Bowjob: I find it a bit strange that mpex dice shares haven't lost value while Havelock's are a bit down
Bowjob: I'd imagine with dice shares would plummet now that the whale got 9k in 1 day.
Bowjob: Well, im still figuring out if dice is up or down, looks like the whale is still playing
mircea_popescu: listen, most people with that sort of nonsense outlook aren't on mpex
assbot: [HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.69500000 / 0.7513125 / 0.78000000 (80 shares, 60.10499969 BTC), 7D: 0.44000000 / 0.64762229 / 0.81000000 (1311 shares, 849.03282861 BTC), 30D: 0.37000000 / 0.51008583 / 0.81000000 (5482 shares, 2796.29051793 BTC)
mircea_popescu: was up cause of lack of asks, prolly relaxed a little once owner bought a little more s.dice and put it on offer
maximian: bowjob: s.dice is practically brand new and is just getting going - its big earning days are still ahead of us. Variances like a 9k loss to a whale are meaningless if you're in for the long term.
mircea_popescu: actually i imagine the largest single factor affecting price is people's judgement of how likely a sale to a large player is.
maximian: I do anticipate that - it makes sense
mircea_popescu: stuff like the recent online casinos opening btc to the us is prolly more pressure than whether someone makles or loses 10k
mircea_popescu: course, this is all speculation about what people may be speculating about lol.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00065466 = 7.1031 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064931 = 2.8057 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66 @ 0.00064918 = 0.0428 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.0006485 = 8.9493 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0006456 = 2.7896 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00064528 = 7.2271 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1735 @ 0.00064423 = 1.1177 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064457 = 2.7852 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3725 @ 0.00064423 = 2.3998 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00064423 = 9.3413 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3540 @ 0.00064423 = 2.2806 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6597 @ 0.00064187 = 4.2344 BTC [-]
Graet: i'll read it laterm kids dinner time mircea_popescu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00064187 = 2.8242 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 712 @ 0.00734477 = 5.2295 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24 @ 0.00064187 = 0.0154 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3036 @ 0.00064169 = 1.9482 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064744 = 2.7976 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9163 @ 0.00064755 = 5.9335 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11516 @ 0.00064855 = 7.4687 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0006483 = 2.8013 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 934 @ 0.00064855 = 0.6057 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10645 @ 0.00065454 = 6.9676 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 450 @ 0.00730215 = 3.286 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064199 = 2.774 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11879 @ 0.00064169 = 7.6226 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 950 @ 0.00064636 = 0.614 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3850 @ 0.00064199 = 2.4717 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00065438 = 2.8276 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11479 @ 0.00065454 = 7.5135 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0006543 = 2.8272 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15179 @ 0.00065454 = 9.9353 BTC [+]
jurov: hi mircea_popescu, got a question about x.idiffs
jurov: how do i know how much is the cover?
jurov: when i buy some and difficulty rises, when they'll go *poof*?
kakobrekla: i showed that xdiff thingie to a guy with ~300ghash
jurov: nobody likes it, cause of above uncertainty
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 2000 @ 0.0075 = 15 BTC [+]
jurov: practically every time you do MKFUT, collateral changes, not even saying anything about next quarters
jurov: and buyers don't know what to expect, let's have practical example
jurov: i have sold 20x x.idiff.mar to bugpowder fellow for 1.7711 BTC
jurov: but the cover is actually less, am searching how much it was
jurov: (if i inderstand idiffs correctly)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2753 @ 0.00065454 = 1.8019 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9104 @ 0.00065471 = 5.9605 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11170 @ 0.00066438 = 7.4211 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00066563 = 4.6261 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 211 @ 0.00066576 = 0.1405 BTC [+]
jurov: hmm, stat says IMMCover is 1.95470556 so it's a bit more... but still we don't know how much cover others provided
jurov: would you buy future for 1.7BTC that's covered only up to 1.95 ? i doubt
jurov: poor bugpowder, first that s.dice blunder, then this :DDD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 471 @ 0.00064199 = 0.3024 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4585 @ 0.00064169 = 2.9421 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00064149 = 3.5923 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5844 @ 0.00064143 = 3.7485 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.6120002 = 6.12 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.612 = 6.12 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.611 = 2.444 BTC [-]
gesell: based on the S.DICE betcount total on Jan 1 and current count I'm seeing a %14 increase in dividends. It's a simplistic calculation. Match what everyone else thinks or does someone have something more sound?
malaimo: if you have a look at the statistical analysis thread over at bitcointalk.org you can see that yesterday was a very bad day for s.dice
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.5611 = 1.1222 BTC [-]
malaimo: but I guess if you consider regression to the mean satoshidice will be fine...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1945 @ 0.00734477 = 14.2856 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00064685 = 6.9213 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00064175 = 2.773 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3579 @ 0.00064143 = 2.2957 BTC [-]
markedathome: clearly, dooglus is trying to out mircea_popescu as the mystery player, why else can I get "MPEX pay SDICE with SMPOE" out of the addresses listed in #782
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066275 = 2.8637 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9150 @ 0.00066278 = 6.0644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0006635 = 2.867 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15479 @ 0.00066381 = 10.2751 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2808 @ 0.00066287 = 1.8613 BTC [-]
jurov: no, he's buying twelve pound solid bricks of crystal meth
jurov: (see second recent trilema article)
DeadWeasel: i'm pretty sure he's transporting them as 12" crystal meth dildos to get past customs.
jurov: If nobody is to be routinely told exactly what a worthless, pointless accidental and undesired item they are then certainly nobody’s to be told they’re welcome to dream into one palm, piss in the other and see which feels warmer to the touch.
jurov: and he calls someone snide. yeah.
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 100 @ 0.009 = 0.9 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 11 @ 0.0091 = 0.1001 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2279 @ 0.00066381 = 1.5128 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14849 @ 0.00066576 = 9.8859 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1722 @ 0.00066577 = 1.1465 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00066577 = 3.9946 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00066577 = 5.2596 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1513 @ 0.00066287 = 1.0029 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16737 @ 0.00066282 = 11.0936 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19.45001, Best ask: 19.52026, Bid-ask spread: 0.07025, Last trade: 19.42100, 24 hour volume: 53313.83367467, 24 hour low: 18.70000, 24 hour high: 19.80000, 24 hour vwap: 19.35731
gribble: There are currently 35300.69 bitcoins offered at or under 29.0 USD, worth 746476.392038 USD in total.
gribble: There are currently 35300.69 bitcoins offered at or under 29.0 USD, worth 746476.392038 USD in total.
gribble: There are currently 17178.888 bitcoins offered at or under 20.0 USD, worth 340747.595972 USD in total.
gribble: There are currently 4392.8697 bitcoins demanded at or over 19.0 USD, worth 84249.722342 USD in total.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00066282 = 6.827 BTC [-]
gribble: Error: "bc,24" is not a valid command.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00066328 = 3.9134 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066542 = 2.8753 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12679 @ 0.00066577 = 8.4413 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2223 @ 0.00730522 = 16.2395 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 550 @ 0.00734477 = 4.0396 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00066577 = 5.6923 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.645 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 149 @ 0.00066577 = 0.0992 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11651 @ 0.00066664 = 7.767 BTC [+]
Bugpowder: knock 3 times and the door to $20 opens?
jurov: yeah, rally right after i sold some...but i can't wait longer
jurov: oh Bugpowder you weren;t around when i discussed the mpex idiffs ?
jurov: so, unless mircea corrects me, it comes out they are covered only up to 2.9x current difficulty
jurov: so these i made only up to 9 M
jurov: so basically you bought futures for 1.7BTC that are covered only up to 1.95
Bugpowder: I've had a long discussion wiht mp about this
jurov: okay. but overall i'm correct?
Bugpowder: and when the 9 threshold is hit, the expiry is spread across both sets of sold futures
jurov: but the cover averages over all idiff shares, no?
jurov: so i diluted it in fact
Bugpowder: what the actual distribution of 27 and 9s is
jurov: yes, there is no way to know what the cover is. well, i got an idea how to fix it
jurov: CoinBr.IDiff will come to bitfunder soon ;D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066302 = 2.8649 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7146 @ 0.00066282 = 4.7365 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 242 @ 0.00734477 = 1.7774 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 8 @ 0.3001 = 2.4008 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 5 @ 0.3001 = 1.5005 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 7 @ 0.3 = 2.1 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 4 @ 0.0238 = 0.0952 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 12 @ 0.0237 = 0.2844 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066642 = 2.8796 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2979 @ 0.00066657 = 1.9857 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6576 @ 0.00066657 = 4.3834 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00734477 = 2.2034 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.00734477 = 2.9379 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C190T] 10 @ 0.21604376 = 2.1604 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.00734477 = 2.9379 BTC [+]
jurov: i'm going to improve idiff futures ;)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00734477 = 2.2034 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: markedathome I seriously have played a grand total of maybe 3 btc on s.dice.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19.42769, Best ask: 19.54999, Bid-ask spread: 0.12230, Last trade: 19.42769, 24 hour volume: 50009.52094866, 24 hour low: 18.70000, 24 hour high: 19.63999, 24 hour vwap: 19.35837
gribble: There are currently 14954.611 bitcoins offered at or under 20.0 USD, worth 297782.475441 USD in total.
markedathome: mircea_popescu: i just thought it was funny that I could get those words out of the way the addresses were arranged.
gribble: (bids [--under] <pricetarget>) -- Calculate the amount of bitcoin demanded at or over <pricetarget>. If '--under' option is given, find coins or at or under <pricetarget>.
gribble: There are currently 5527.276 bitcoins demanded at or over 19.0 USD, worth 105766.29329 USD in total.
mircea_popescu: markedathome i guess by now pretty much everything's somewhat connected to mpex
markedathome: doesn't really matter, you could make any sequence of chars out of something if you look hard enough. took me a while to get smpoe
mircea_popescu: there's this kaballah thing where they look for the nth letters sort of thing
mircea_popescu: jurov the collateral is 2.9x the current diff per set, so march are currently about .1 ad june about .3
jurov: yes, but the buyer doesn't know where it is exactly. especially if previous quarters are mixed in
mircea_popescu: buyer knows it's not going to be less than 2.9x whatever quarter he buys in
jurov: it can be anywhere from (lowest difficulty in this quarter)*2.9 and more
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 400 @ 0.00734477 = 2.9379 BTC [+]
jurov: we'll see how it goes after we open it. just that i think that buying future at 0.075 , while expected cover may be 0.0095 or maybe more isn't so attractive
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.00731818 = 3.6591 BTC [-]
jurov: it's lowest price offered to date. and seems nobody will sell it for less.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter i dunno if i'd buy at 7.5mn. what, diff doubles in the next six weeks ?
jurov: well, remains to be seen if it actually trades at such price
mircea_popescu: i think like 20 sold or something, but that's really nothing.
jurov: yes, i experimentally sold 20 at 0.89
mircea_popescu: i'd imagine at a bare minimum there should be 50% coverage which would put the volume in the 100k range per month or somrthing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31595 @ 0.00066657 = 21.0603 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5899 @ 0.00066664 = 3.9325 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 370 @ 0.00066731 = 0.2469 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00066849 = 2.1392 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2874 @ 0.00066915 = 1.9231 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19.46042, Best ask: 19.60448, Bid-ask spread: 0.14406, Last trade: 19.46042, 24 hour volume: 49860.53894881, 24 hour low: 18.70000, 24 hour high: 19.63999, 24 hour vwap: 19.35926
jurov: zimbabwe has $247 in bank... wanna buy?
jurov: they should kick mugabe and move to bitcoin
jurov: and list on mpex, if you allow them lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066493 = 2.8732 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22185 @ 0.00066467 = 14.7457 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1707 @ 0.00066282 = 1.1314 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15537 @ 0.00066045 = 10.2614 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2350 @ 0.00065833 = 1.5471 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: the thing is, they're not smart enough to do any of tham.
DeadWeasel: can't run a country on volatility like this. maybe later.
DeadWeasel: when I can afford my own atoll in the south pacific, i'll run my country on BTC.
mircea_popescu: DeadWeasel btc is not particularly volatile for that purpose.
jurov: would be infinitely better than their current $
mircea_popescu: most national currencies are worse than btc in that perspective.
DeadWeasel: true, they can't even control it as is.
mircea_popescu: do you think the greek drachma would have ONLY dropped 90% recently ?
mircea_popescu: for that matter, once things blow over do you suppose the usd will only drop 90% ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 200 @ 0.00734477 = 1.469 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19.63201, Best ask: 19.70472, Bid-ask spread: 0.07271, Last trade: 19.63201, 24 hour volume: 49943.54713803, 24 hour low: 18.70000, 24 hour high: 19.70323, 24 hour vwap: 19.36427
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066882 = 2.89 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4026 @ 0.00066915 = 2.694 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00066938 = 8.6015 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1253 @ 0.00066967 = 0.8391 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: why do women fuck better when they have real high heels on ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00731819 = 2.1955 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00731818 = 2.1955 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1100 @ 0.00730522 = 8.0357 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066777 = 2.8854 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 517 @ 0.00066756 = 0.3451 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8583 @ 0.00066756 = 5.7297 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2373 @ 0.00066704 = 1.5829 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4844 @ 0.00066565 = 3.2244 BTC [-]
smickles: mircea_popescu: if women fuck better in highheels, I'm willing to bet that it's just a (possibly localized) social phenomenon
jcpham: my data doesn't support that hypothesis
smickles: 10 btc, It's probably just a coincidence that it's high heels, could've been converse allstars
smickles: we could probably setup a double blind crossover trial
mircea_popescu: smickles well if we just kidnap test subjects off the street its unethical and if i let you bring your own you'll cheat.
smickles: that's why it needs to be double blind
smickles: you hire impartial subject, and impartial observers
smickles: how do human trials of drugs find subjects?
smickles: or, you're saying that only sexworkers would apply?
mircea_popescu: ya but drug stuff objectively interacts with the subjects
kakobrekla: seems to me usagi has an answer to everything always just before he quits.
mircea_popescu: im saying that whoever will apply fails to represent the entire set adequately
smickles: that's were statistics come in
smickles: you'd have to have a large enough set of subjects
mircea_popescu: smickles i doubt statistics can help, because the sample is selected
smickles: and make sure they don't know whats being tested
mircea_popescu: smickles you're gonna hire people to fuck without telling them ?
smickles: naw, they know generally what they are going to do
midnightmagic: dub: What's confusing about combining monies to obscure their sources and screw up crappy "taint" analyses?
midnightmagic: IMO, it is ethical to point out, publically, serious flaws in the way information is presented to the public.
smickles: but neither the observers or the subjects know what we're trying to test
mircea_popescu: smickles then they're only representing that subsection of the population who'll generally do that.
mircea_popescu: Zimbabwe, the country that's home to some of the world's largest platinum and diamond reserves, literally has the same financial standing as a 14-year-old girl after a really good birthday party.
smickles: mircea_popescu: then we could structure it in a way that we have people in situations where the might likely have sex without being prompted, it would make it larger, take longer and be more expensive
mircea_popescu: smickles sounds like a plan. now we know what's with all the cctv
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: A little while ago, dub was saying he doesn't understand gmaxwell's mixer thing. It's not really a mixer, it's guaranteed to be essentially impossible to disentangle those sorts of transactions due to the fungibility of bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: o, that thing where he's trying to create a trail showing himself to be rich ?
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: right. but it has other uses, too.
mircea_popescu: yeah. like, for instance, privately convincing some naive people with a lot of money that you matter.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: It is cryptographically secure; and, actually, gmaxwell is taking a bit of a risk doing it.
midnightmagic: no, it's mocking two things: 1) rich-lists, 2) taint analyses.
mircea_popescu: send your btc to mpex, withdraw it, end of story. it's as anon as it will ever get.
mircea_popescu: how are you going to disentangle btc that went through the same address ?
midnightmagic: We go to your house with a large lead pipe and start hitting you with it until you tell us.
midnightmagic: Figuratively of course; or apply legal pressure so it's not worth it to keep it secret.
mircea_popescu: i know nothing at all. you can create a gpg sig right now as 34jk5hty895ytg9g4t
smickles: mircea_popescu: the trail is by txid, addresses are just incidental
mircea_popescu: what do i know ? that it's really 34jk5hty895ytg9g4t's btc ?
midnightmagic: hrm. maybe I've misapprehended how you operate MPEX. I've never logged in.
midnightmagic: well, in that case, at the very least, there's a trust thing which can't be cryptographically avoided, unless you are doing multisig similar to what gmaxwell is.
mircea_popescu: sending to 1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx and then withdrawing has the certain advantage that you're actually in a pool of 10's of k's of btc,
midnightmagic: if I deposit 500,000 bitcoin to you, what happens if you decide to keep it?
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic deposit it over 500 transactions, what diff does it make to you ?
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Presumably you could, if you wanted, just decide to keep it.
smickles: mircea_popescu: I believe it's more accurate to say that control of coins goes from one txid to another, rather than one address to another. the fact that it's known which address is associated with wich txid at this time is incidental
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic you don't send the 5th 1k block till you got the 4th to your addy
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: But it would be an advantage to join with all those people and withdraw, you are correct.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic im just saying, if i were a scammer trying to part some fiat ivnestors from their money, i'd do the exact thing he's doing.
mircea_popescu: not meaning by this he is a scammer, i still think he's an idiot
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: The mathematics of it makes it impossible.
mircea_popescu: he just goes to buffett and proves to him that he owns address X
midnightmagic: it's impossible, he doesn't have sole signing authority of a multisig.
mircea_popescu: buffett has a dim understanding of taint and blockchain and doesn't read the forum
mircea_popescu: thus believes this guy actually has a billionty bitcoinz
midnightmagic: how does he prove to buffett that he "owns" the address from which the money came from? he can't.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 456 @ 0.00066565 = 0.3035 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7344 @ 0.00066502 = 4.8839 BTC [-]
midnightmagic: Okay, from the top. When someone tries to figure out a particular identity, they use the method as described in the identifying mechanisms presented at 28c3 in germany: transactions "prove" that the person who "owns" the inputs is the same person.
midnightmagic: This method can be used to collect a pile of individual txn and "collapse" all the addresses into one entity.
midnightmagic: They're different addresses though. So gmaxwell comes along and offers to join his own money into a multisig *transaction* which has an output of some other, new addresses.
midnightmagic: Now, the old methjod of collapsing identity fails. *but* individual addresses still remain the property of the original people.
midnightmagic: and *actual coinage* never actually goes through gmaxwell's hands.
midnightmagic: there's no way of "proving" that the money is in an address that gmaxwell can use to spend.
mircea_popescu: the entire process actually involves an address of gmaxwell into what'd be a single collapsed identity.
midnightmagic: so he couldn't go to buffett and prove he owns the coins without lying to him and claiming that "that one txn right there proves i could have controlled x money" because he can't forge the signature of the address from the bigspender.
midnightmagic: because I've already done it with him a bunch of times, so lemme go check and see whether it's the same thing.
mircea_popescu: dude, it's simple. currently people think they can group addies into wallets
mircea_popescu: gmaxwell is trying to collect a number of addies in varying wallets into single such collapsed presumed wallets
mircea_popescu: but it may well be to show someone who doesn't read the forum that he has a huge wallet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1491 @ 0.00730522 = 10.8921 BTC [-]
midnightmagic: What would need to happen would be that someone would have to take the word of a totally untrusted third-party who says, "well look here, this is all from the same person"
midnightmagic: but this is the naive viewpoint, because identity collapsing could just be limited to txn which involve limited outputs.
mircea_popescu: There's addresses a1-an, b1-bn, ... x1-xn belonging to wallets A, B, ... X. Through tx collapse one can extract out of the blockchain what appear like wallets A', B', ... X'. These wallets will contain a number of addresses, which may or may not coincide with the proper a1-an set for A. In general it's safe to asume that A != A', but it may also be the case that A ~= A'.
midnightmagic: At any rate, there's no way to prove to buffett that he specifically had *control* of the coins.
midnightmagic: the spends go to completely unrelated addresses, which the end-user should be careful not to mix in terms of spending, with the input addresses.
midnightmagic: hrm. i'd have to think about it some more to agree with your statement. there's a large hand-wavey part wrapped up in the identity collapse.
mircea_popescu: well yeah. but it yields somehow some sort of A' approximation
midnightmagic: Also, when you use ~=, do you mean "approximately equals"?
mircea_popescu: in the sense that [1, 9, b] approximately equals the set of prime numbers.
gribble: There are currently 14208.378 bitcoins offered at or under 20.0 USD, worth 283035.775173 USD in total.
midnightmagic: I interpret the ~= to mean that some addresses overlap or can be related to the addresses prior, but that's what I say can't be related unless the owner of the outputs of the transactions signs a non-multisig transaction that requires A' *and* A addresses together in a single-output txn, *and* we assume that people would automatically steal from one another if they could.
dub: midnightmagic: I thought gmaxwell was generally against coin mixing, he railled aganst gpumax for that reason unless I am forgetful
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic what difference does all that make tho ?
midnightmagic: dub: Actually, he railed against gpumax because gpumax appeared to be a coin laundry that the participants were unaware of. (exchanging dirty for pristine at a premium.)
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: It means that gmaxwell can't prove to buffett that he owns those coins; and that his purpose isn't to put on a tweed coat and a bowler's hat and smoke a pipe and say he's rich.
mircea_popescu: im trying to construct the logic of this here, stay with the step we're on
dub: midnightmagic: so what he's doing isn't making laundry of btc unnecessary?
midnightmagic: lol but we can't move on without detailing the method of identity collapse.
midnightmagic: dub: What he's doing involves two or three (or more) parties who are taking an enormous risk that the outputs won't be used for nefarious purposes.
mircea_popescu: makes no difference. for all we care it can be throwing darts.
dub: its all about fungibility thought right?
dub: which is the aim of money laundering
midnightmagic: because you are formalizing something based on hand-wavey identity collapse methods which transactions like gmaxwell's proposed txn are being designed specifically to foil.
approxprime: dub: i thought gmax didn't like gpumax b/c it gave financial incentive to undermine the mineing network
dub: smickles: idk, I thought it was the laundry aspect
dub: anyway, my confusion was teh apparent about face
mircea_popescu: dude, if i say "a car will move items around the surface of the earth" a discussion of combustion engines is out of place
midnightmagic: smickles: I'm not really sure how it could except by tipping someone over 50%. pirate claimed on many occasions that gpumax often had > 50% of the hashrate but he was being responsible wiht it.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Hey man that's a false analogy. But if you want to rhetorically accept the "identity collapse" thing, fine. Go on then and make your point, I'll listen.
mircea_popescu: so, accepting that however flawed, nonsensical or poiintless, some sort of method makes A' out of perceived interractions in the blockchain
mircea_popescu: gmaxwell proposes to deliberately add together a3, b9, c4, f12 etc
dub: sorry, whats the difference between "identity colapse" and "money laundering"?
mircea_popescu: so as to carefully construct something that by that however flawerd, nonsensical etc method WOULD APPEAR to be a single wallet, call it G
midnightmagic: dub: One of them is a forensic analysis of transactions to determine likely owners, and the other is an attempt to use transactions to foil the methods of determining owners.
dub: midnightmagic: lol but the end result is the same no?
mircea_popescu: publicly, we have the result that indeed the method is discredited.
mircea_popescu: privately, however, if some idiot doesn;'t know about all this, we have what may be construed as a very fat wallet G
mircea_popescu: which gmaxwell can :"prove" he owns by signing with his own address
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: By the methods of identity collapse as they stand, yes, it comingles wallets and makes A B C D ... X all appear to be G
mircea_popescu: my point is entirely that some naive party may actually be thus fooled.
midnightmagic: he couldn't prove he owned them because he could prove he was able to make *all* of the signatures in the multisig. only a fraction of them.
midnightmagic: Either you or I could go prove to a naive party that we own all the bticoins in the world right now.
mircea_popescu: well yes, but this is a little more ellaborate than just "it's based on math"
mircea_popescu: now, again, im not saying this is what gmaxwell is doing
mircea_popescu: all im saying is i wouldn't participate inter alia because i have not any way of knowing this isn't the case.
midnightmagic: Cryptographic proof would require gmaxwell produce sigs which show he was the owner of *all* the inputs to the transaction.
midnightmagic: I would offer that people who would believe gmaxwell's partial multisig signatures means he owned millions of dollars maybe aren't the sort of people you want to be getting into bed in business with anyway.
mircea_popescu: people who have money are usually old. people who grok technology are usually young.
midnightmagic: I love that guy. He looks like the Architect from the Matrix.
mircea_popescu: buncha niggers got uppity, kicked out the white "opressors"
midnightmagic: Don't super-rich people usually rely on other people to tell them what's going on?
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic yeah. problem is sometimes these people are experts a la taaki.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic right. stealing farmer's farms because they're white wasn't brutal.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Calling them names isn't helpful given the brutal oppression involved.
mircea_popescu: the civilisation of the human race is a work of opression. our problem is that we've stopped doing it.
mircea_popescu: "IRISVALE HALT, Zimbabwe, Jan. 17 (UPI) -- Residents of a Zimbabwe village said they've "cleansed" a medical clinic of goblins but nurses who fled the clinic are still too afraid to come back to work."
midnightmagic: i'm gonna have to back slowly away from this conversation now..
mircea_popescu: you seriously see a problem with smacking the "residents" of the hut agglomeration across the skull
smickles: i suspect the (language used in)zimbabwe to english transation which results in goblin, starts with ginger
smickles: that they arn't seriously talike about goblins
dub: thats the seat of the 'raping virgiins cures your aids' wisdom
midnightmagic: is the goblin cleanse involving people getting the shit kicked out of them?
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic i wonder how they pronounce salem in khosa
dub: unfortunately I think the reality is that our species needs quite a bit of die-back and the natural place for this to occur is the third world
midnightmagic: I see a problem with the notion that white people are blameless and that civilising people requires brutal murderous oppression.
midnightmagic: All it needs is a strong science-based education and it just naturally follows.
smickles: mircea_popescu: the only thing i have against gingers is that there is more humor revolving around gingers than mutt-american
mircea_popescu: ever since you bleedin' hearts took out the beatings nothing gets done anymore.
smickles: i don't hold that against them tho
mircea_popescu: anyway. so is zimbabwe becoming the first extrateritorial province of china ?
DeadWeasel: don't they own the majority of America's debt too?
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 19.65807, Best ask: 19.68000, Bid-ask spread: 0.02193, Last trade: 19.68000, 24 hour volume: 49442.39791191, 24 hour low: 18.70000, 24 hour high: 19.73800, 24 hour vwap: 19.37328
midnightmagic: americans seem to be more willing to just inflate their currency rather than let the chinese dominate foreign debt as much as they were.
mircea_popescu: yeah but i suspect the chinese are about a degree of magnitude more competent with infiltration
dub: <midnightmagic> All it needs is a strong science-based education and it just naturally follows.
dub: that is some religion level disconnect
dub: mircea_popescu: MAFF
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00066935 = 2.8923 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00066967 = 2.7456 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4079 @ 0.00067234 = 2.7425 BTC [+]
midnightmagic: dub: So.. I guess.. that is some religion-level context elimination
mircea_popescu: if you're going to make better people by educating them
dub: EskimoBob: stop talking to yourself crazy person, everyone else tuned you out a long time ago
midnightmagic: vitriolic people who aren't angry usually have scarier problems?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1800 @ 0.00730522 = 13.1494 BTC [-]
dub: I'd be out the door quick smart
dub: fuck work or whatever else he's doing
Bugpowder: every moment he delays is money out of his pocket
dub: boss: I've got the shits, bye
mircea_popescu: wasn't someone posting a supposed cgiminer screenshot earlier ?
dub: mircea_popescu: wizkid was trolling
jcpham: no way i'm giving that guy money
jcpham: i rememeber all his spew on the foum after pirate ditched
jcpham: he was going to "help out"
mircea_popescu: what, apprehend the evil doers and restore peace and justice
mircea_popescu: tom green is like gengis khan. somehow he's managed to have like 200 million kids.
smickles: lol, so he raised the 15million or so usd to start a credit union?
dub: I don't think he's in the US
mircea_popescu: has some funny site run off a sort of blogspot free hoster
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2385 @ 0.00066502 = 1.5861 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10450 @ 0.00066216 = 6.9196 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9350 @ 0.00065909 = 6.1625 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 85 @ 0.0075 = 0.6375 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 100 @ 0.0075 = 0.75 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: and theres some reference to having to do it in sweden somewhere
dub: they inevitably will
mircea_popescu: should have made a credit union instead of an accounting firm
DeadWeasel: it does. it's so easy it almost jumps out of my wallet.
smickles: § 54‑50. Number of incorporators; capital stock.
smickles: Any number of persons, resident freeholders of the State, not less than 15, may associate to establish an association on the terms and conditions and subject to the liabilities hereinafter prescribed. The aggregate amount of the capital stock of any such association shall not be less than twenty thousand dollars ($20,000). Such association shall mean a corporation organized under the laws of the State for the purpose of making loans upon agricultu
smickles: well, it's a little easer than arizona
smickles: but NC requires 15 peeps and 20kusd
smickles: and if he just meets the minimus, it severely limits what he can do in his operations
jborkl: Wait, I don't see the point of what he is doing. If you need to exchange there is GOX and if someone needs a loan they just go scam off the lending forum right?
smickles: mircea_popescu: actually, it changed in 1981
smickles: and an additional 75000 to be held has proof they can pay their expenses for the first year
dub: the internet might be about to have a bad day
smickles: all funds have to be withdrawable in us legal tender if requested
smickles: the administrator of it has to have a net worth of >=1.5 million usd
smickles: it needs a permanent capital reserver of no less than 500000 in addition to all this other stuff
dub: EskimoBob logic 101: 1) call eveyone names and generally make a cunt out of yourself 2) ask them to break teh law for you
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.008 BTC [-]
smickles: EskimoBob: rather than circumventing local law, why don't you get the law changed?
smickles: heh, i'm sure it take longer than that, but lowering taxes ought to be popular enough
smickles: and there is probably an organization already trying to acheive the same goal
rng29a: how long does it take before a bet appears on bitbet ?
smickles: if you ain't co.ukian, i'm sure they could put you in touch with your country's similar organization
smickles: heh, an excellent reason why you should pay the vat
zerokwel: whats the point in being in politics they all as bad as each other
jcpham: smickles the credit union is Sweeeeeeeeeedish
jcpham: he complies with all Sweeeeden laws
dub: rape capital of the world
Bugpowder: wow. S.DICE over 1,100,000 BTC bet this month
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 0.9789 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 5 @ 0.95 = 4.75 BTC [-]
Bugpowder: They shipped it with a chinese power cable?
Namworld: hmm... S.DICE profits went down like hell...
Bugpowder: nobody talks about the variance when S.DICE outperforms