assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4820 @ 0.00050703 = 2.4439 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21280 @ 0.00051153 = 10.8854 BTC [+]
smickles: "I wrote earlier “That characteristic being that early adopters are benifited greater than the latecomers. But this can be said of any appreciating asset.” in reference to the only submitted evidence for Bitcoin being anything near a ponzi scheme in the statements citations.
smickles: If it can be said about any appreciating asset, how is it noteworthy?"
smickles: "And how do you expect anyone to find a reliable source pointing this out about the vast majority of appreciating assets?"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15250 @ 0.00049846 = 7.6015 BTC [-]
smickles: SudoGhost (as expected) ignoring the point of my comment
mircea_popescu: smickles i'd guess it's anywhere from free to 50 or so euros here
smickles: 50 euro must get you a hight quality stamp impression from the notary
smickles: I can't imagine this giga issue would require anything above the 'inked rubber stamp' variety tho
smickles: if you only have 5 bonds then the effort to maintain a secure wallet is a higher cost than the value of the bonds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.0005091 = 4.8619 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25250 @ 0.00050971 = 12.8702 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42550 @ 0.00050389 = 21.4405 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10008 @ 0.00050845 = 5.0886 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.00051318 = 15.498 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17342 @ 0.00050962 = 8.8378 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4908 @ 0.00050703 = 2.4885 BTC [-]
dub: fishgame jumped the shark eh?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10498 @ 0.00050703 = 5.3228 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1630 @ 0.00325681 = 5.3086 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 5200 @ 0.00328979 = 17.1069 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 170 @ 0.00334934 = 0.5694 BTC [+]
smickles: …to mr voorhees getting more btc 'in his pockt'
smickles: it probably is ment as a rolling 365 days
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12489 @ 0.00050389 = 6.2931 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19861 @ 0.00050278 = 9.9857 BTC [-]
smickles: "While it has been said that the ECB report doesn't deny or disprove that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, it doesn't accuse it of being a Ponzi either. The Reuters source is just a headline (as far as it saying anyone even mentions Ponzi and Bitcoin in the same sentence). Headlines are often written by people other than the article's author for the purpose of attracting eyeballs, not communicating relevant information. The other citation (currently us
mircea_popescu: Born in 2007 as a Second Life insurance company, The Rock has evolved in a full featured virtual financial institution. Based in US, founded by EU citizens, run by long-standing virtual experts.
smickles: Based in US, founded by EU citizens, << dam ferriners
mircea_popescu: ftr, the entire "blogs are not a source" like of wikipedia, while they take utter junk such as news sites into account...
mircea_popescu: there's no newspaper in the world that can compete with the top blogs. in any respect.
smickles: yeah, the line should be drawn at quality, not labels
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.00334934 = 1.6747 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: any newspaper has to do 1.5x more than any blog for the same attention.
Namjies: Eh, so are requirements for claiming Gigamining shares bothering you, Mircea?
smickles: oh yeah, are you making the claime for the etf?
Namjies: Glad to know I'm not the only one which doesn't bother.
smickles: Namjies: you expected otherwise?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18002 @ 0.00050536 = 9.0975 BTC [+]
Namjies: I am unsure why the claim would not be made.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27247 @ 0.00050969 = 13.8875 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1487 @ 0.00051318 = 0.7631 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14719 @ 0.00051363 = 7.5601 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6732 @ 0.00051369 = 3.4582 BTC [+]
smickles: I have an idea, but at a low confidence interval
mircea_popescu: we're not in backwards world, we're in straightwards world. why would it be made ?
Namjies: Because you don't write off an account because it requires administrative procedures or otherwise? Who voids funds/value because of procedures?
smickles: Why would it be made? To recover value which was previously deemed lost
mircea_popescu: the problem here is this : the etf was an instrument to pass along value as conveyed
mircea_popescu: it wasn't an instrument to jump through random hoops and then pass along the value thus obtained.
Namjies: "The Owner will never own less shares of the underlying than the total float of this asset implies."
mircea_popescu: thus, no collect money from investors -> make upgrades
mircea_popescu: no preparation of legal documents and mailing, no other random shit.
Namjies: Gigavps never discontinued the shares.
Namjies: The etf states "The Owner will never own less shares of the underlying than the total float of this asset implies."
smickles: well, mircea_popescu never stopped owning the shares then
Namjies: GLBSE was discontinued. The contract does not state the shares ahve to be on GLBSE.
Namjies: It simply states 5 mhash/s bonds, which are not discontinued by Gigavps.
mircea_popescu: i don't think you get to randomly create an imaginary vehicle just because the actual vehicle imploded.
Namjies: So if someone assaults you and MPEx servers rendering it incapable to continue operations, all "financial vehicles implodes" and have no value whatsoever?
mircea_popescu: depends how contracts are made out, but i'd expect mpex-share derivatives to die there yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50800 @ 0.00051369 = 26.0955 BTC [+]
Namjies: There's a difference between the financial vehicle and it's exchange... an exchange can close or expel a specific stock.
mircea_popescu: well, "an" is inappropriate, and mpex comparison is inappropriate.
Namjies: You still own the stocks and can claim them. It's just not on the usual exchange anymore.
mircea_popescu: Namjies suppose for the sake of argument gigavps simply asked for 1 penny per share registration fee.
Namjies: The fact GLBSE doesn't deserve the appelation of an exchange because it was so bad doesn't change the fact it worked as such.
Namjies: You can't charge for registration of stock you already own.
Namjies: Gigavps simply requires people to identify themselves when claiming their shares.
Namjies: He's not charging anything.
Namjies: There's always paperwork involved when moving off of an exchange.
Namjies: The ETF contract has no conditional clause that it's execution requires GLBSE to be the platform where the bonds are exchanged or that the bonds must be issued on an exchange for the ETF to be honored.
mircea_popescu: well, it had a (details) clause that included all that.
mircea_popescu: The owner of this ETF holds 900 perpetual 5.0Mh/s bonds (details),
Namjies: Aye... you mean the gigavps thread?
Namjies: It never stated that to be honored, those bonds required GLBSE either.
Namjies: The bonds are off an exchange now. Securities don't have to be on an exchange.
mircea_popescu: well, they in principle don't have to, all things are in principle possible. these, however, were.
Namjies: They were on an exchange, yes. Now they got dropped off of it.
Namjies: They remain legitimate bonds.
Namjies: The issuer is still honoring them. Do you have any statement to the effect Gigavps will not honor them or claimed he won't pay them?
Namjies: Would you like to confirm with GigaVPS that the bonds remain valid?
mircea_popescu: no, the question is, do you have a statement from the issuer of the thing you're discussing saying that the thing you're discussing is going to behave in the manner you're proposing.
Namjies: Paying 5 mhash/s perpetually?
mircea_popescu: that in the event glbse goes away the thing still carries as if nothing happened.
mircea_popescu: or that in the event that glbse goes away, issuer will do "anything" or "do X" to obtain private registration
Namjies: What do you think he is doing? He's attributing bonds to each holder to continue honoring their coupons as usual.
mircea_popescu: you've made some presupositions which aren't borne by the facts, but would prefer to present these as fact.
Namjies: Well you should ask Gigavps then to verify that.
mircea_popescu: other, of course, the fact that he's not so far sending money.
smickles: the way that lawyer letter looked, 'gigamining' was a glbse only thing of another company
smickles: btw, i'm still waiting on my llc docs :(
mircea_popescu: really, the cost to me to get to the legal bottom of this would easily eat up the value of the etf
mircea_popescu: i guess i could do that, but then i'd have to make shareholders pay the difference somehow.
Namjies: Technically, your ETF doesn't contractually require the shares to be on GLBSE or any exchange. It says "The Owner will never own less shares of the underlying than the total float of this asset implies." No conditional statement. As such if bonds remain valid and your property, you have to claim them.
smickles: it's 'waiting to be examined' received on the 13th
mircea_popescu: o hey, right under $$$ $AVE WITH CLEAN AZ CARPET CLEANING
mircea_popescu: Namjies : i'm not doing affidavits as a proxy for anyone just cause you figure i should.
smickles: lol, 'smi concepts' and 'smi concepts 2'
mircea_popescu: the practical options are either i spend something which on a rough estimate is about 8k to get the thing thoroughly looked into,
Namjies: For anyone? You're the ETF owner who owns the shares. You're not proxying.
mircea_popescu: srsly, just because you imagine things a certain way doesn't mean they are a certain way.
Namjies: I'm not imagining it, it's what the ETF claims.
Namjies: >>The Owner<< will never own less shares of the underlying than the total float of this asset implies.
Namjies: You're the owner who owns the shares.
Namjies: You still own the bonds and GigaVPS intends to pay on them.
Namjies: You technically have the duty to collect those coupons and dispense them.
mircea_popescu: where in the contract does it say that "even if more fees, costs or proceedures will be imposed, the issuer will complete these"
Namjies: "Any and all revenue paid by the underlying will be distributed to the shareholders of this asset without remainder."
mircea_popescu: there you go. did i receive revenue i've not distributed ?
Namjies: You technically have but you're not claiming them.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't say "all revenue paid will be distributed and all revenue offered for claim will be claimed"
mircea_popescu: and if tomorrow gigavps comes up with a 10x dividend payment if i sleep with him, irrespective of what you may think my duty is, i ain't sleeping with him either.
smickles: c'mon, one little bj for the shareholders?
Namjies: He's not asking any payment either, simply to identify yourself officially.
smickles: that sounds like payment to me :/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29548 @ 0.00050803 = 15.0113 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24052 @ 0.00050278 = 12.0929 BTC [-]
Namjies: If you say so. You may value it.
mircea_popescu: well, he's asking to identify myself in a particular way
smickles: i dunno, mircea_popescu it is a little shocking that you arn't trying to recover the value there
mircea_popescu: which, because of it's nature, imposes a cost on my part, which isn't trivial, cause i have to put lawyers at work.
smickles: hmm, good point, it would be weighed against the cost
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00051086 = 7.2542 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i'd be much surprised if the entire series is actually worth 300 btc right now.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00051369 = 2.363 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: by the time the stuff is actually processed and alll... heh.
mircea_popescu: eventually someone brings asics to the table. maybe not this month, maybe not the next.
Namjies: "where in the contract does it say that "even if more fees, costs or proceedures will be imposed, the issuer will complete these""
smickles: Namjies: that would be the fiduciary responsibility
Namjies: I'd consider it a breach of contract. Being on the receiving end of that contract, any undefined situation should be treated in my favor unless a conditional clause goes against that.
mircea_popescu: heh. i don't think you can get that much mileage out of this.
smickles: Namjies: so you expect him to pay the expenses out of pocket?
mircea_popescu: Namjies when did you buy these ? (i presume you actually have some ?)
smickles: Namjies: maybe just show your STAT to the lawyer guy and you can get the gigamining shares directly
smickles: it should be easy enough to explain tho
Namjies: I think he's grossly exaggerating the fee to make an affidavit... but yes. He states he will never own less shares than the float. That should be done regardless of requirements if the shares remain valid.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the fiduciary duty is mostly : to not have conflicting duties, to not profit by fiduciary position
smickles: I mean in Namjies argument, if they still exist, then mircea_popescu never stopped owning them
Namjies: The GLBSE is gone. I'm pretty sure we went over the fact the bonds do not require GLBSE to exist.
mircea_popescu: but to the point : when did you actually buy these shares ?
Namjies: As such, all stocks/stocks/etc. require an exchange to exist?
smickles: ok then, mircea_popescu still owns the bonds, giga has an address to send cupons to, why is it mircea's fault the dividends arn't being sent?
Namjies: I don't recall the date. Over a month ago I believe.
Namjies: smickles: It's not his fault, it's GLBSE's. GigaVPS has to identify the claimers as GLBSE data cannot be fully trusted.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23668 @ 0.00051369 = 12.158 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00051374 = 3.9044 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6982 @ 0.00051379 = 3.5873 BTC [+]
Namjies: Regardless if it's his fault or not, Mircea should honor the contract as stated, regardless of requirements. There's no exception/discharge of responsibility in various situations for the ETF manager.
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> but to the point : when did you actually buy these shares ? <<<
Namjies: That's basically the same argument I had against Patrick Harnett when I was defending you Mircea against Joel Katz.
Namjies: Because Patrick simply stated that deposits could be withdrawn anytime.
Namjies: That the deposits are lost didn't matter as per the contract.
Namjies: [19:45] <Namjies> I don't recall the date. Over a month ago I believe.
Namjies: No. As far as I'm concerned, all bonds, shares, etc. on GLBSE would remain valid, even without an exchange.
mircea_popescu: so you bought a distressed asset on a vague contract and didn't ask
mircea_popescu: on the theory that then you can claim vague should be construed in your favour ?
Namjies: Well the financial vehicle and the place they are traded are 2 different entities.
mircea_popescu: looky. had you gotten lucky and things went smooth with giga, you'd have made some money, i imagine.
mircea_popescu: it didn't work out. that's business. no point in raising nonsensical arguments out of it.
smickles: mircea_popescu: do you have an opinion on these asic thingies?
Namjies: So you're pulling a Joel Katz argument on me? Since it would cause a loss to you to manage the ETF, I should eat the loss too?
smickles: do they seem worthwhile to purchase to you?
mircea_popescu: i'm not pulling anything. you expect something to happen. i ask why,. you say cause you expect it. i say ok.
Namjies: So keeping ownership of the bonds and keeping payments going should be dropped because it involves administrative/legal fees?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12918 @ 0.00051379 = 6.6371 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25303 @ 0.00051383 = 13.0014 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8427 @ 0.00051384 = 4.3301 BTC [+]
smickles: mircea_popescu: because mining is such a low margin activity?
mircea_popescu: smickles i suspect there's going to be a "real" asic run
mircea_popescu: blowing the current hacked-together stuff out of water.
smickles: ah, one not offered to the public?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00051016 = 16.7843 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <Namjies> So keeping ownership of the bonds and keeping payments going should be dropped because it involves administrative/legal fees? <<< should any admin/legal fees be expended whatsoever to guarantee someone's shares ?
mircea_popescu: smickles i imagine towards the end of the year someone's finally going to make a proper asic run.
Namjies: Yes, considering managing the ETF is your responsibility.
Namjies: There was no clause discharging you of any responsibility to that matter in case fees would be involved.
mircea_popescu: i specifically said, even here iirc to you, that i'm not doing anything actively
mircea_popescu: that was about the upgrade i think, back in august or w/e
Namjies: Ah, but the upgrade is a different matter.
Namjies: It was to exchange the bonds for another asset, in exchange of a fee.
Namjies: You have no obligation to convert a bond into a new bond.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5408 @ 0.00051384 = 2.7788 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00051396 = 16.5238 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4988 @ 0.00051415 = 2.5646 BTC [+]
Namjies: Under a different agreement.
Namjies: In this case the bond has not changed.
mircea_popescu: so if it has not changed then i don't need to do anything.
Namjies: Yes, administrative tasks.
Namjies: One was exchanging ONE security PLUS a fee (Gigamining 5 mhash/s bond + 0.29 BTC) for ANOTHER, COMPLETLY DIFFERENT security (Teramining bonds)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11867 @ 0.00051016 = 6.0541 BTC [-]
Namjies: The other is identifiying yourself through a claim for the same existing bond (Gigamining).
Namjies: Those two scenarios are different. It's not wordplay.
Namjies: It remains a gigamining bond paying 5 mhash/s perpetually.
Namjies: So it's not a new security. It's the same, except it moved off an exchange.
Namjies: Moving off an exchange creates a new identical security, according to you?
Namjies: Which is not the same, just identical?
Namjies: That it would somehow be a "new" security, with an identical contract but that doesn't relate at all to the previous one on the exchange.
mircea_popescu: in general it would depend on the particulars. in the particulars of all glbse securities, this is true, any reconstruction either private or on a new exchange is a new security.
Namjies: Well I disagree on that point. When an exchange drops an asset, it usually remains the same asset. An ETF holding it would have to keep the shares even if it implies more administrative costs in managing their ownership off an exchange.
mircea_popescu: the case of exchanges dropping assets is irrelevant. glbse had not the ability to do that.
mircea_popescu: and no, when shares go off the exchanges into the pink sheets the funds do not keep them.
Namjies: Well then, you should sell your claim to them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 233 @ 0.00051016 = 0.1189 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1312 @ 0.00050278 = 0.6596 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9305 @ 0.00050131 = 4.6647 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: they weren't. they were just destroyed, practically speaking.
Namjies: technically, the exchange didn't drop them. The exchange was closed definitly.
Namjies: Forcing all assets on it out. Not voiding them.
mircea_popescu: this is what you'd like it to be. whether it actually is ... well...
Namjies: So all GLBSE asset issuers are entitled to not pay any shareholders anymore, is that what you claim?
mircea_popescu: the fact that people still expect to be paid... well... of course they do, people always do. but they have pretty much no claim to it.
Namjies: Because any holder would be hard pressed to prove ownership? The official data is being released.
Namjies: As far as I'm concerned, that's good enough for claims.
mircea_popescu: the correct civil avenue is : all shareholders sue glbse.
mircea_popescu: since glbse is not solvent this is a moot point however.
mircea_popescu: i don't see why you think it's good enough for claims. what weigh does it have ?
Namjies: It's basically the premise of GLBSE as the very poor ownership proof system it had. That GLBSE's records is the ownership proof.
mircea_popescu: how do you on the basis of this proof of yours disprove his claim ?
Namjies: Same for official stock exchanges... ownership is what the records say.
smickles: 01:08 < Namjies> Well then, you should sell your claim to them. << offer him any amount
pigeons: glbse records were provided by someone with an official scarlett letter of the forums though
Namjies: Yes, GLBSE records are far less documented.
mircea_popescu: smickles sadly the "do not further assign thing" fucks this.
Namjies: In both case, ownership is the records tho.
smickles: aw, i was going to bid 0.001btc
mircea_popescu: something doesn't become acceptable just because it's the only straw you have Namjies
mircea_popescu: a "proof of ownership" that fails to disprove contrary claim is no such proof.
mircea_popescu: and i don't dispute the released lists are some indication of ownership
Namjies: So what do you require to act at all on anything? Personal benefit or not interested?
mircea_popescu: the very reason people are stuck with messes such as giga's is exactly that : they find themselves in a situation where they have to assign other people's propetyu
mircea_popescu: i'd have to research as what i'm accepting them. i'd have to research how can i handle them once accepted. i'd prolly have to take them off mpex. on it goes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00051415 = 8.6891 BTC [+]
Namjies: I am uncertain why. It seems you only want to avoid any procedure/work/costs at any price.He simply requires you identify yourself along with a notarized claim that you own X shares.
mircea_popescu: then a month or so down the road they run you into a wall
Namjies: The ETF's owner listed is Mircea Popescu, not MPEx, according to the ETF page.
mircea_popescu: do you understand why i'd want a lawyer to research and report as to whether i'd better claim as a real person or as a legal person ?
Namjies: Yes. For protecting yourself.
mircea_popescu: so in short : i'm glad you see a duty of care for the btc thing. i don't see why you imagine it can be extended into this "free anything forever" construction.
mircea_popescu: and for the record, i'd be rather surprised if what giga offers actually is a weekly btc payout.
mircea_popescu: the logical thing would be for him to offer a dollar settlement to all applicants.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18745 @ 0.00050131 = 9.3971 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4431 @ 0.00049846 = 2.2087 BTC [-]
Namjies: But being listed as the owner and manager of the ETF, dropping the bonds altogether because it involves legal fees doesn't seem to be the best way to do that. The ETF's manager legal liability and related costs are not ETF holders concerns.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19050 @ 0.00051415 = 9.7946 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: they are, insamuch as they arise from the actual issuer.
Namjies: Those fees would be extra to protect yourself through consultation regarding the claim process.
mircea_popescu: basically, the way this worked out is this : i had X owned by Y on exchange Z. exchange Z dissapeared, destroying the records of X. there's some indication of the ownership on the basis of which Y wants to create unspecified something which you assume is X'.
mircea_popescu: now if you imagine that i will out of my own time and money a) go through whatever hoops Y comes up with and b) pay counsel to advise as to whether those hoops are safe
mircea_popescu: it's true the etf holders can't be held for those fees.
Namjies: Hmm... is fees incured by an ETF supposed to be shared among the holders.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6870 @ 0.00049846 = 3.4244 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5480 @ 0.0004982 = 2.7301 BTC [-]
Namjies: Or is the ETF issuer responsible for such fees, would be the question.
Namjies: Usually an ETF issuer should have management fees charged to the fund and be responsible for incurred fees related to it's management.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25920 @ 0.0004982 = 12.9133 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13867 @ 0.00049797 = 6.9053 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16764 @ 0.00049617 = 8.3178 BTC [-]
Namjies: Although this ETF charged nothing at all.
mircea_popescu: it charged nothing and it did nothing other than split up all payments received.
mircea_popescu: that was the original idea, and for the very reason that anything else is too difficult to spell out in a contract.
mircea_popescu: i still think this is the correct way to make such a passthrough thing
Namjies: Well fine. I'd say so too. I don't believe it's fair to require you to incur the fee now required after GLBSE's fiasco. But the need for simple thing, I still say it doesn't excuse you would have required a proper contract where you had protective clauses for yourself.
smickles: fees are totally shared by the etf holders, it's usually communicated by an expense ratio
Namjies: Hmm, but does this applies to all ETF or is it how ETF contracts are usually layed out?
Namjies: Could an ETF charge a management fee and assume all management/legal costs in their contract?
smickles: the etf contracts i've read don't explicitly mention the fee
mircea_popescu: kinda the reason index funds outperform managed funds, that fee.
Namjies: Well I'll default on assuming it was an automatic/index one since you didn't charge a fee, even if not specified as such.
smickles: Namjies: thing is, as described, the giga.etf wasn't actually an etf
mircea_popescu: spvs are these vehicles created in derivative trades rto insulate the parties
mircea_popescu: A makes SPV A1, B makes SPV B1, then B1 and A1 enter the contract
mircea_popescu: the SPVs can go bankrupt without touching A or B, and also their assets are off-balancesheet
Namjies: Hmm... well Gigavps lawyer is in charge of this claim process and claims are sent to him.
Namjies: I could always check with him if I can make a second claim for my interest in the ETF.
mircea_popescu: didn;t you hold a bunch of giga on glbse too ? or am i confused
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00050484 = 13.2268 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00050801 = 5.1309 BTC [+]
Namjies: GPG signed statements are technically valid legally and I have the signed contract and the signed statement.
mircea_popescu: Namjies you mean the contract as displayed on the etf ?
mircea_popescu: you can try, but gigamining would i imagine point out that it was assigned glbse shares, which is true.
Namjies: Let me guess, you have not provided GLBSE an email & BTC address? As such you're not even on Gigavps's list to start with?
Namjies: Or did you provide that, assuming Gigavps would pay without further requirements?
Namjies: If you don't have an account, then it's the GLBSE account owner who technically has to make the claim. He was the one proxying for you who was proxying for the ETF holders.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00049722 = 10.5411 BTC [-]
Namjies: The claim has to be made associated with the BTC address provided to GLBSE.
Namjies: As such I could simply claim with my signed statement from MPEx directly with that person, assuming that person will be making the claim.
Namjies: Especially if that person didn't hold shares strictly for you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00049722 = 5.0219 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 936 @ 0.00049617 = 0.4644 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27125 @ 0.00049566 = 13.4448 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11939 @ 0.00049549 = 5.9157 BTC [-]
Namjies: So they'd have to make the claim strictly for you...
Namjies: Well basically, anyone can make a claim.
mircea_popescu: no, what i'm saying is, this detail is not important, i could actually make the claim as well as they could.
mircea_popescu: November 20 Hey all, I am attempting to start a new business where people can buy and sell bitcoins easily and safely
mircea_popescu: MPOE-PR points him to the "wanna start a business thread"
mircea_popescu: November 21 Thanks for the suggestion. So far we have been pretty successful doing a bunch of transactions
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14601 @ 0.00050732 = 7.4074 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8978 @ 0.00050801 = 4.5609 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 771 @ 0.00051216 = 0.3949 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23334 @ 0.00050679 = 11.8254 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6195 @ 0.00050679 = 3.1396 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48257 @ 0.00050936 = 24.5802 BTC [+]
Namjies: Well Mircea, could you at least let me know if the person holding shares for you on GLBSE will claim them?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19943 @ 0.00050936 = 10.1582 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3457 @ 0.00051415 = 1.7774 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40400 @ 0.00050665 = 20.4687 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5250 @ 0.00050303 = 2.6409 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7350 @ 0.00050181 = 3.6883 BTC [-]
Namjies: Ok, so no one is claiming them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00050267 = 7.4395 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00050946 = 4.5851 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00051299 = 2.9753 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8352 @ 0.00051415 = 4.2942 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19738 @ 0.0005143 = 10.1513 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24250 @ 0.0005143 = 12.4718 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 200 @ 0.00334934 = 0.6699 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38400 @ 0.00050888 = 19.541 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6932 @ 0.00050386 = 3.4928 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7809 @ 0.00051006 = 3.9831 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18969 @ 0.0005143 = 9.7558 BTC [+]
Namjies: Ah, income tax is annoying and complex. And too much exceptions and special cases.
Namjies: If a government is bent on providing services to the population and public infrastructure, I'd prefer it's budget be levied through a large property tax and luxury tax.
Namjies: Might achieve just the same thing, except it would be easier to manage for everyone and harder to evade.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36300 @ 0.0005143 = 18.6691 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6999 @ 0.0005143 = 3.5996 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42301 @ 0.00051431 = 21.7558 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10033 @ 0.00051397 = 5.1567 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31550 @ 0.00051397 = 16.2158 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19550 @ 0.00050791 = 9.9296 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13313 @ 0.00050774 = 6.7595 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00051307 = 2.1549 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1832 @ 0.00051415 = 0.9419 BTC [+]
Chaang-Noi: honestly im shocked giga is doing this
Chaang-Noi: he will be acting as a broker more or less
Chaang-Noi: well i guess he is not letting the stuff trade...
mircea_popescu: i dunno where people get the idea they will receive some replacement bond
Chaang-Noi: i dont think giga got a lawyer as good as mine...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2144 @ 0.0005064 = 1.0857 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21950 @ 0.00050571 = 11.1003 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00050464 = 3.4316 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10106 @ 0.0005046 = 5.0995 BTC [-]
Chaang-Noi: the SEC might still go after giga for what he is doing
Diablo-D3: what, if he buys back all the assets?
Chaang-Noi: he is changing the deal... that wont fly well, he should have just tried to keep the old one, and told people to deal with GLBSE...
Chaang-Noi: if he buys them all back, and people are okay with the price that might work, im not sure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00051415 = 2.8278 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3644 @ 0.0005046 = 1.8388 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116392 @ 0.00050413 = 58.6767 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.00051415 = 14.0877 BTC [+]
PsychoticBoy: he got 2 options: 1 pay up or 2 feel the consequences
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24558 @ 0.00050413 = 12.3804 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11259 @ 0.00050326 = 5.6662 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21683 @ 0.00050247 = 10.8951 BTC [-]
PsychoticBoy: I will invest as much btc a needed to...............
PsychoticBoy: at this point gigavps is stealing our money, he took my money without any ID or such, so paying me back would also not require any ID or such
PsychoticBoy: We all know who he really is so should be easier to hunt him than Trendon Shavers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13467 @ 0.00050247 = 6.7668 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30233 @ 0.00050219 = 15.1827 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 667 @ 0.00050219 = 0.335 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00050186 = 3.6636 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22857 @ 0.00050181 = 11.4699 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 617 @ 0.00050126 = 0.3093 BTC [-]
pigeons: PsychoticBoy: how would he "pay you back"? at the mpex last 15 day price as the contract specifies?
pigeons: ok so he paid you back then
PsychoticBoy: last on mpex does not mean last on glbse as stated in contract, but beeside that no dividend etc
mircea_popescu: so how much do you figure one gigavps bond is worth atm ?
pigeons: PsychoticBoy: last 15 days on glbse (which the words glbse are not in the contract for htat) is still 0
pigeons: so he bought back your contract at 0, thanks nefario
PsychoticBoy: sure, keep talking shit, last trade on glbse was 0.78
pigeons: it doesnt say last trade, it says last 15 days, glbse has been closed more than 15 days
gigavps: what is your email address? how many bonds do you own?
PsychoticBoy: I did not auth so everyone could have said that
gigavps: please submit the information requested, and you'll be paid
PsychoticBoy: I own lots (probably more than 100 bonds incl FDBF
gribble: ??? (~Psychotic@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy) has been on server kornbluth.freenode.net since 08:06 PM, November 22, 2012 (idle for 17 seconds) and is on #p2pool, #bitcoin-mining, #bitcoin-assets, and #bitcoin.
gigavps: pm me you email and i'll be sure to have my lawyer contact you on monday
PsychoticBoy: dont want to recieve the same email again with that .... story
mircea_popescu: <PsychoticBoy> I did not auth so everyone could have said that << ah come on.
PsychoticBoy: I am man enough to say I did say it but thats not the case
pigeons: someone stole your freenode password to threaten gigavps?
PsychoticBoy: I just want to recieve my outstanding div and final buyback
pigeons: seriously, how can he determine final buyback? ther is no last 15 days glbse
gigavps: PsychoticBoy how do you propose we decide on the final buyback?
PsychoticBoy: in the neightbourhoud of the last trade on glbse lets say 0.6 btc per bond and the outstanding div
gigavps: maybe we should use the last mpex trading price
gigavps: PsychoticBoy please submit the information requested
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44506 @ 0.00050707 = 22.5677 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00050564 = 2.3765 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31144 @ 0.00050126 = 15.6112 BTC [-]
PsychoticBoy: nope wont happen gigavps, I can give you my email and btc address and that would be it
pigeons: i like the guy on the forum who complained for a few pages and then at the end said, "does this mean my 2 shares of giga are gone?"
PsychoticBoy: thats the same info you got from glbse so that should be enough
gigavps: PsychoticBoy let me a least see if you are in the list
Diablo-D3: gigavps: I find it strange you hired a lawyer though
gigavps: if you go back 10 pages in the gigamining thread, there were multiple people asking me to get a lawyer
gigavps: Diablo-D3 why does it seem strange?
PsychoticBoy: you can get this email first and check this one: flyingdutchmanbitcoinfund@gmail.com
Diablo-D3: well, with DMC, Im going the route of telling my shareholders to go after GLBSE legally
Diablo-D3: I cant do it alone, even if DMC could afford a lawyer, it needs to be multiple independent complaints and suits against him
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87118 @ 0.00051415 = 44.7917 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5782 @ 0.00051498 = 2.9776 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52968 @ 0.00051147 = 27.0915 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20561 @ 0.00050126 = 10.3064 BTC [-]
gigavps: PsychoticBoy that email is not in either of the lists i have received
mircea_popescu: <gigavps> if you go back 10 pages in the gigamining thread, there were multiple people asking me to get a lawyer <<< lol
mircea_popescu: <Diablo-D3> I cant do it alone, even if DMC could afford a lawyer, it needs to be multiple independent complaints and suits against him << who told you this tho ?
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: erm, DMC _cant_ afford a lawyer.
mircea_popescu: i mean the math of multiple independent suits. do you think courts work by ballot ?
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: oh no, its just going to ruin him financially
Diablo-D3: he'll have to keep showing up to court and the moment he doesnt he loses
Diablo-D3: in the end, it still causes him massive legal trouble and essentially bankrupts him
Diablo-D3: not if the community wants to make a point
mircea_popescu: forget "the community". the community is a bunch of howlers, they all turn out if there's a catered party.
mircea_popescu: they all fling shit if they have to buy on their own a post stamp
mircea_popescu: "ALL current exchange operators, including those who make several thousand dollars a month, are small peanuts, and will come under this pressure." that sounds a little nefarious.
Diablo-D3: if they dont want to fight for their investment, then I cant help them
Diablo-D3: DMC cant sue nefario, and the only thing DMC do is make sure nefario never gets another chance to fuck people
Diablo-D3: so its not like the community has many options here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.00050317 = 15.4473 BTC [+]
Chaang-Noi: im not as in the loop as i once was, but iv not seen it posted anywhere...
Chaang-Noi: i meant this "MOTION TO QUASH SERVICE OF PROCESS FOR LACK OF PERSONAL JURISDICTION"
Chaang-Noi: they are trying to get out of it cuz they are not in NZ...
gigavps: mircea_popescu the initials of my business are in my handle
Chaang-Noi: they are saying the TOS says tehy have to sue in a NZ court so suing in SF is fail...
Chaang-Noi: i dont think it will go far, but phantomcircuit is 100% sure he will get paid his 60k usd legal fees...
Chaang-Noi: that is why there is a motion to quash...
mircea_popescu: he's not the first one to die bankrupt cause he was sure he'll get his legal fees back
Chaang-Noi: yeah he is fail, but the motion is to toss the case cuz he is saying the bitcoincia customers can only sue in NZ cuz TOS said so...
Chaang-Noi: i dont think many people know this, its not on the forum...
mircea_popescu: court won't quash a trial that names him just because it names some foreign corp
mircea_popescu: and besides, bitcoinica is getting taken out because of insolvency
mircea_popescu: so it'll be just amir, patrick and co plus does 1 through 99 plus nefario.
Chaang-Noi: i dont think you understand what im saying.
Chaang-Noi: yea im not talking about the suit, in talking about the newest motion
mircea_popescu: looky : someone sues X, Y and Z. X files a motion to quash the suit because Y can not be sued in tha jurisdiction.
mircea_popescu: it will remove Y anyway, cause of insolvency of Y. so the motion is toothless in all respects.
Chaang-Noi: its costing him a huge amount of money.
mircea_popescu: ya well not the fiest time he spent huge amounts on useless shit
Chaang-Noi: i personally think he is getting fucked over by his lawyers
Chaang-Noi: the lawyers made him pay first, never a good sign, lol
mircea_popescu: he could be fucking some chick with a law degree and no practice
Chaang-Noi: the coin is at gox, and they are not being sued... and also tihan has control of the gox account now, and he is not being sued
Chaang-Noi: i dont think this court case is going to really do anything but fuck over everyone involved in it with legal fees
Chaang-Noi: cuz lawyer fees you can add two 0's to that...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00050917 = 0.5092 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25120 @ 0.00050918 = 12.7906 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35850 @ 0.00050759 = 18.1971 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11830 @ 0.00050317 = 5.9525 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2378 @ 0.00050126 = 1.192 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27322 @ 0.00050106 = 13.69 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Hi bixcoin, I have good news for you. The email address in your bitcointalk.org profile is not in the list sent from GLBSE so you have nothing to worry about!"
mircea_popescu: so neither PsychoticBoy nor bixcoin is on the list... gigavps you sure that list is actually right ?
PsychoticBoy: my other account is on the list, but yes the list is incomplete
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20 @ 0.00050226 = 0.01 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19130 @ 0.00050918 = 9.7406 BTC [+]
gigavps: mircea_popescu the list is incomplete
gigavps: it's one of the main reasons for having a claims process in the first place
mircea_popescu: i didn't realise "incomplete" means... two thirds or less.
gigavps: gigaminers shouldn't have to conceed to nefario's incompetence
mircea_popescu: i imagined something like 99%. in retrospect, i have no ideea why
gigavps: the other reason for the claims process is so no one can collude with nefario to defraud gigaminers and get away with it
gigavps: to put 100% faith into the list is like relisting with glbse
Diablo-D3: I swear to god Im going to buy another machine just so I can put 16gb of memory in it
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: might be cheaper to just get a woman pregnant
Diablo-D3: wait wait wait, I think japan has a thing for this
jcpham: ;;calc .13*[ticker --last]
jcpham: dunno about wholesale though
mircea_popescu: you know when i'll be old and unable to get it up anymore
mircea_popescu: ill prolly sell mpex and dedicate myself to woman milkfarming on the webs.
jcpham: distribution and retail aren't the same
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 54 @ 0.00325448 = 0.1757 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1600 @ 0.00325447 = 5.2072 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 850 @ 0.0032513 = 2.7636 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3946 @ 0.00321556 = 12.6886 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: jcpham: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: because fucking chicks is a god given right
mircea_popescu: my friends all fuck chickens and then eat their bills...
Diablo-D3: <god> NO. INSTEAD I SHALL BLESS YOU WITH A FOUR HOUR ERECTION. MAKE GOOD USE OF IT.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00050918 = 5.27 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051497 = 0.515 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00051498 = 5.8965 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23053 @ 0.00051498 = 11.8718 BTC [+]
EskimoBob: looks like you two are having your early morning wankerfest
EskimoBob: you can keep your cookie, you two keep licking it :)
EskimoBob: so, gigavps managed to show his real face and fucked everyone over...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00051424 = 5.2967 BTC [-]
EskimoBob: why do you say that? He had no problem taking the coin in the first place
pigeons: he's the only one trying to pay people
EskimoBob: for some reason I think that he made it up and asked some slimeball to write that letter
EskimoBob: those are all "if" and "then..." blaa blaa.
mircea_popescu: listen, EskimoBob : back in april he was under a lot of pressure (from me) to not even go ahead with the glbse listing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00051424 = 9.6163 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: well for everyone else it is. it was foresight for me bacvk then, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: so, yea he relied on glbse. guess what ? his investors did too.
mircea_popescu: everyone did, cause it was fashionable to do at the time.
EskimoBob: so what, this will note excuse what he is doing now
EskimoBob: question is, who will be the next greedy fuck, who pulls something similar
mircea_popescu: well, what he's doing now is trying to somehow fix it. he has scant alternatives and so he's stuck with lawyers.
EskimoBob: how is he fixing this shit now with that bs he posted?
EskimoBob: he changed the rules, demands info he has no need for etc
mircea_popescu: from what he's said (above) he has some grounds to suspect it may even have been tampered it, or might have been.
mircea_popescu: what if you had however many shares but simply WERE NOT on nefario's list ?
EskimoBob: i do not think so. He probably gor incomplete list because some did not send the double payment back
EskimoBob: James told issuers that this list is NOT! complete
mircea_popescu: you are the issuer. you receive a "list" which someone meanwhile tagged as a scammer says is not complete. what do you do ?
mircea_popescu: why is it two months late ? did he take this long to doctor the lists, put his own accounts in there ?
EskimoBob: list is incomplete because some received a double payment when James fucked up
mircea_popescu: how do you know what's on the list is the actual legitimate owners ?
EskimoBob: now few slimebags use that to force some to give up
mircea_popescu: look, i understand the cui prodest approach. it's fine, nothing wrong with it.
EskimoBob: how did I know that trades really happened in GLBSE, how do I know that sky is blue... blaa blaa blaa
EskimoBob: all he needed to forward to issuer was a hash and a payment account number
mircea_popescu: if by oct 6th everyone had that in their mailbox i could totally see your pov.
EskimoBob: and send the shareholder the "secret code", balance and the hash
EskimoBob: it was relly stupid to send the e-mail too
EskimoBob: encrypting somethinmg will not make it more correct or true
mircea_popescu: to own property you must either be identified and public or else anon AND SECRET
EskimoBob: I men we can do it with a md5 has and be done with . You never have to know my e-mail address
mircea_popescu: anonimity itself is destructive of property rights. only if coupled with secrecy does it work.
EskimoBob: but I can prove it's me who owns the shares
gigavps: EskimoBob do you own gigamining?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 354 @ 0.00321556 = 1.1383 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 7575 @ 0.00321486 = 24.3526 BTC [-]
EskimoBob: I did and I sold after I realized you can not be trusted. I think we have talked about it
gigavps: EskimoBob how can i trust nefario to give me a proper list?
gigavps: EskimoBob what should i do when people make claims that are not of nefario's list?
EskimoBob: before i obviously realized that perpetual bonds are losers :)
gigavps: EskimoBob do you think gigaminers should not get their past payments because nefario fucked up?
EskimoBob: it sure is hard but what else can you do?
mircea_popescu: gigavps you absolutely need to make a full length statement and discuss all this in excruciating detail.
EskimoBob: gigavps: there are 3 sides on this
mircea_popescu: prolly should have done it in parallel with the announcement.
gigavps: mircea_popescu it's coming
Diablo-D3: EskimoBob: were you here when I was talking about what I wanted to do with dmc 2.0?
EskimoBob: some of the 3 have beef with 2 and they need to fix that
gigavps: EskimoBob nefario can't even send me a properly formatted yaml file
gigavps: which means he put it together by HAND
EskimoBob: before you can do anything with their clime
gigavps: mircea_popescu don't be daft
Ukto: man, you can FEEL the love
gigavps: EskimoBob the ONLY think i am trying to do is to pay ppl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15350 @ 0.00051424 = 7.8936 BTC [-]
Ukto: mircea_popescu: why you being daft? :P
Ukto: Diablo-D3: I feel trollish today :/ Prolly didnt get enough sleep
mircea_popescu: ukto apparently for thinking nefario can run gpg --clearsing by hand ?
Diablo-D3: Ukto: I feel trollish every day, so /me shrugs
Ukto: mircea_popescu: I have already made statements on my personal expereince with Nefario's competency.
EskimoBob: gigavps: apparently not because the lawyer stuff you pulled is NOT helping you to prove shit
gigavps: EskimoBob maybe you should put on your thinking cap for a minute
EskimoBob: there has to be better way to do it without you getting fucked and your investors too
mircea_popescu: well wtf, so herp derp here's a plaintext-over-email statement of beneficial ownership
Ukto: gigavps: I have not had a chance to look into things yet for shares, but what about ppl who havent done their taxes in a while?
gigavps: EskimoBob if i pay someone according to the list, and the list is not correct, i'm still on the hook to pay them
Ukto: mircea_popescu: like evrey other action preformed in the past, no thought went into it.
Ukto: at least, no clear concise thought
Diablo-D3: EskimoBob: zero coupon non-callable corporate bonds.
gigavps: EskimoBob because i am now making payments, not glbse
EskimoBob: OK, let me ask this. Why did james remove some names from the list
Ukto: mircea_popescu: you heard what btc-mining is gonna do? close down/pay off? their own trading engine?
gigavps: 1. they never filled out the claims form
gigavps: 2. they were overpaid in the btc return
EskimoBob: now, why do you have to pay those people?
EskimoBob: they have not completed 2 or 1 task thy had to
Ukto: 1. Create Asset. 2. ??????? 3. Make Money... *joking..*
mircea_popescu: Ukto i think it is. iirc he was taking claims to confirm his lists.
gigavps: EskimoBob, if they own gigamining, they should be able to make a claim
EskimoBob: no scumbag lawyer will help to clear this up
EskimoBob: it's total waste of time and other peoples money
mircea_popescu: EskimoBob so you hate not just greeks and pornographers but also lawyers ?
Ukto: EskimoBob: while I agree with you, its at least the proper 'legal' course of action. well, mainly if gigavps plans to sue glbse/nefario
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 600 @ 0.00051424 = 0.3085 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27654 @ 0.00051333 = 14.1956 BTC [-]
Ukto: otherwise really imho I dont think a lawyer is necessary
mircea_popescu: hate to break it to you, but models smoke the cock on cam.
Ukto: A lawyer having info from someone is no diff than an issuer
gigavps: EskimoBob if there are enough claims that don't match with glbse, we can start making demands for the database
EskimoBob: gigavps has to take a step back and put his thinking hat on - all he did, was stir up another shitstorm
Ukto: gigavps: you prepared for a long 1~3 year international legal battle?
Ukto: aginst nefario/glbse
Ukto: to demand the database?
gigavps: Ukto my first demand letter is what sparked nefario to get off of his ass
EskimoBob: gigavps: for start, work with all the names on the list -
Ukto: gigavps: ah, nice. dont get me wrong, just questioning. :)
EskimoBob: then send the missing claims to james and find out, what happened
Ukto: I have my own extensive experience with lawyers and crap. just curious. :)
gigavps: EskimoBob that is exactly what i am doing
EskimoBob: gigavps: but whay apostill and al tht crap?
Ukto: EskimoBob: from nefario's point of view, gigavps's actions with the lawyer may actually help glbse holders further as he mentioned. nefario is afraid of lawyers/lawsuites, etc.
Ukto: EskimoBob: if nefario feels like things are getting out of hand and he has to do something, he will jump
EskimoBob: he jumped before he started to think
EskimoBob: gigavps: sorry, you are not doing that. You are demanding information that is not helping your form people who are on the list
Ukto: EskimoBob: yes, we do need alot of things
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9780 @ 0.00051333 = 5.0204 BTC [-]
EskimoBob: Diablo-D3: did you send me PM? I must be missing somethimng
Diablo-D3: [11:10:11] <Diablo-D3> EskimoBob: zero coupon non-callable corporate bonds.
EskimoBob: oh that one, sorry, I missed it :)
Diablo-D3: the bonds will be "physical" certs that are digitally signed with a single use pgp key
EskimoBob: you know I do not like that non-callable stuff at all
Diablo-D3: EskimoBob: its not perpetual, though
EskimoBob: zeros are super stuff but NC par is bad
Diablo-D3: it'll be like for 5 years or something
Diablo-D3: and then sell them with a bid-driven OID
EskimoBob: set the date, but add that bond can be refinanced
Ukto: EskimoBob: I just wanted to say Hi. :P
Diablo-D3: EskimoBob: refinancing them doesn't make sense imo
Ukto: alright, enough trolling for now.
Diablo-D3: EskimoBob: issuing multiple issues of bonds does
Diablo-D3: I want as little bullshit as possible
EskimoBob: you see, multiple issues after each other is bad
Diablo-D3: no dividends means no need for day to day exchange manhandling
Diablo-D3: no complex legal work means less work for both sides
EskimoBob: one issue, callable at X on date Y and if needed, refinanced before Y is good
EskimoBob: rolling out bond issues one after another is real crapp and build ZERO trust
gigavps: EskimoBob if i pay someone i shouldn't have, i need legal recourse, especially if this comes to light when btc is $1000/coin
gigavps: so notorizing signed documents is kind of important
Diablo-D3: EskimoBob: why would you want it to be callable though?
EskimoBob: Oh, btw, i made another cool and dark, bit rusty looking BTC mug
gigavps: plently of ppl have already submitted this info and will be paid next week
gigavps: EskimoBob there are about 10 ppl in the forums screaming
EskimoBob: Diablo-D3: because I want you asa issuer to show that you will call (buy) your bonds back at date X - means you will manage the funds so you will have the available coin to do so
Diablo-D3: EskimoBob: yes, but a non-callable bond means I _must_ buy it back at that date.
Diablo-D3: the only difference is I cant do it early at my choice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5066 @ 0.00051333 = 2.6005 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00051186 = 5.9376 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00051096 = 3.5512 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.0005082 = 9.4779 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6628 @ 0.00050106 = 3.321 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5092 @ 0.00050025 = 2.5473 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: EskimoBob: ie, a 5 year bond, at any point after those 5 years someone can show up with a bond and I have to pay out on it
EskimoBob: sorry, my bad, when i sayd callable I meant you buy them back on date X (date of maturity) - opposite to perpetual
copumpkin: callable is a bond with a prepayment option
Diablo-D3: EskimoBob: non-callable doesnt mean perpetual
EskimoBob: copumpkin: I know I just messed up
Diablo-D3: non-callable just means I cant pay the bond out early at a reduced payment
Diablo-D3: I dont want a perpetual bond, they dont fucking work
EskimoBob: become a UK , have a queen and I'll trust your perpetual bonds. everyone else can fuck off :)
Diablo-D3: zero coupon non-callable corporate bonds
copumpkin: I wouldn't say trust is as much of an issue. The thing about a perpetuity is that the later payments are effectively meaningless
Chaang-Noi: im reading the giga thread and loling and the guys saying they will file criminal charges aginst giga... do these guys not understand that they have no proof of ownership and only nefario has it?
Diablo-D3: Chaang-Noi: not only that, do they understand giga was fucked here?
Diablo-D3: a victim cant legitimately sue another victim
Chaang-Noi: im shocked giga is doing as much as he is...
Chaang-Noi: giga is not a victim in my mind, only the people who trusted nefario, if i was giga i would say, im not a broker, glbse was, go deal with them...
Chaang-Noi: i wonder if giga might be getting himself into more trouble by trying to help
Chaang-Noi: giga seems to be going out of his way to help
Chaang-Noi: i do understand about the apostile thing... i cant do that in thailand, we dont have them :/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39122 @ 0.00050025 = 19.5708 BTC [-]
Chaang-Noi: no, im just shocked at how stupid some of the people are who are bitching in your thread...
Chaang-Noi: i wonder the IQ level of the average bitcoiner at times...
Diablo-D3: EskimoBob: what Im thinking is sell like every 10k of bonds for ~7835
gigavps: i've already talked with one of them and they aren't even on the list
Chaang-Noi: maybe scammer, maybe the did not give back a double payment, maybe nefario is fucking around or gave you some other list... who knows.
Chaang-Noi: im shocked you are even trying to fix this mess.
Diablo-D3: Chaang-Noi, gigavps: you can chime in here as well btw
gigavps: what do i need to chime in on?
gigavps: i'm trying to pay people, not sure what else there is to say
Diablo-D3: well, Im trying to plan out DMC 2.0 here
Diablo-D3: I want something that actually works for investing and isnt a fucking failtrain like every exchange ever
Diablo-D3: the only thing that I can figure out that works is like 5 or 10 year OID non-callable bond
Diablo-D3: and then pgp sign them using a single use key and then bury the key
EskimoBob: Diablo-D3: I think that's a good idea, unless you actually need 10K
EskimoBob: Chaang-Noi: OT will not fix this problem actually :(
Diablo-D3: because I'd need like 1 million BTC.
EskimoBob: I love the idea but I do not see (at the moment) how it can help
EskimoBob: OT needs a frontend (not just users GUI)
EskimoBob: all the "servers" that host securities can connect to that "frontend"
Diablo-D3: that logs shit into a bitcoin chain
Diablo-D3: but it only prevents the exchange from running away with your shit
EskimoBob: but before the frontend, it needs direct connection to btc/ltc/ppc blockchain so you can pay for your trades and not buysome intermediate crap
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13169 @ 0.00051246 = 6.7486 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24966 @ 0.00051429 = 12.8398 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: yeah, which actually COULD be done
EskimoBob: preventing scams is close to impossible unless you want to run SEC type of outfit and basically go back to shit BTC is trying to rid us all
Diablo-D3: store the wallet.dat private keys in the exchangecoin chain
EskimoBob: to prevent scams, you need to elleminate humans
Diablo-D3: and encrypt them using the exchangecoin address private key
Diablo-D3: so you'd need a client that spoke both bitcoin and exchangecoin
EskimoBob: Diablo-D3: this is one more point if failure?
mircea_popescu: in the end, remarkable how low reputations lawyers enjoy with the general public, and how little consideration or indeed knowledge the latter has about legal process.
mircea_popescu: it's almost as if the western world is made of no citizens.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44615 @ 0.00050062 = 22.3352 BTC [-]
EskimoBob: mircea_popescu: lawyers are the scumbags who have made sure no normal person can survive the fkn traps they have woven. What a "wonderful" system to make sure the big Co's get what they want and common people get fucked left ans right.
EskimoBob: you do not understand it because you do not see the big picture, mircea_popescu
EskimoBob: maybe you see it but your obsession with money has blinded you so you do not understand it what you see.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21335 @ 0.00050062 = 10.6807 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00050194 = 10.4905 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3154 @ 0.00051429 = 1.6221 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5086 @ 0.00050025 = 2.5443 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00050021 = 9.3539 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30864 @ 0.00049948 = 15.416 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: or maybe i am one of those for whom lawyers usually work.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00051429 = 1.7743 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16610 @ 0.00049948 = 8.2964 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7250 @ 0.00049916 = 3.6189 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4413 @ 0.00049904 = 2.2023 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12280 @ 0.00051429 = 6.3155 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3215 @ 0.00051498 = 1.6557 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.0005162 = 0.5162 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.00051621 = 22.5584 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00051623 = 9.4986 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051644 = 0.5164 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24134 @ 0.00051645 = 12.464 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00051645 = 7.127 BTC [+]
EskimoBob: this is called stoneware (high temperature fire)
EskimoBob: I have more pictures from different angle
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9160 @ 0.00051623 = 4.7287 BTC [-]
gribble: Nick 'PsychoticBoy', with hostmask 'PsychoticBoy!~Psychotic@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy', is identified as user PsychoticBoy, with GPG key id 06DC71AFE4DAC520, key fingerprint 9E476C16F877E988110787BC06DC71AFE4DAC520, and bitcoin address None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23748 @ 0.00050395 = 11.9678 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15362 @ 0.00049904 = 7.6663 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21150 @ 0.00049903 = 10.5545 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19488 @ 0.00049887 = 9.722 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15492 @ 0.00050395 = 7.8072 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.00050398 = 1.9655 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.00050379 = 12.2925 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7988 @ 0.00050379 = 4.0243 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9462 @ 0.00050398 = 4.7687 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20188 @ 0.00050398 = 10.1743 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4208 @ 0.00051004 = 2.1462 BTC [+]
jurov: someone already did
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45550 @ 0.00051004 = 23.2323 BTC [+]
jurov: mircea, look to the orders table, not to graph
jurov: and latest trades in the bottom too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21692 @ 0.00051004 = 11.0638 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17059 @ 0.00051495 = 8.7845 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2753 @ 0.00051495 = 1.4177 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9638 @ 0.00050804 = 4.8965 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00050365 = 7.7058 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00050365 = 4.8854 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20032 @ 0.00049887 = 9.9934 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: well... need a powerful sales type for a joint venture
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34302 @ 0.00050578 = 17.3493 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33100 @ 0.00051054 = 16.8989 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11950 @ 0.00051054 = 6.101 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22350 @ 0.00051232 = 11.4504 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00051141 = 4.6027 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9298 @ 0.00050903 = 4.733 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7152 @ 0.00050303 = 3.5977 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Reward-Drop ETA: 2012-11-28 22:17:49 UTC (4 days, 2 hours, 50 minutes)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3395 @ 0.00316381 = 10.7411 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13456 @ 0.00050303 = 6.7688 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3744 @ 0.00050259 = 1.8817 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: apparently badbear is saying gigavps should get scammer tag ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10600 @ 0.00051232 = 5.4306 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051644 = 0.5164 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32724 @ 0.00051645 = 16.9003 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2214 @ 0.00051645 = 1.1434 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15350 @ 0.00051671 = 7.9315 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19836 @ 0.00051686 = 10.2524 BTC [+]
Namjies: Ah yes... well I suppose someone making an agreement he cannot honor afterward (for whichever reasons, even if forced not to honor it) could be considered as a scam, somehow...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18964 @ 0.00051686 = 9.8017 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3836 @ 0.00051693 = 1.9829 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00051397 = 9.7654 BTC [-]
Namjies: I know who you're referring to...
Namjies: I argued a bit too much maybe.
Namjies: Well does it really make a difference? Other than persons are more careful of what they say when they can be seen...
Namjies: Eh, either way, I'm off for bit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00051693 = 3.3084 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051692 = 0.5169 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17914 @ 0.00051693 = 9.2603 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00051696 = 7.1599 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52200 @ 0.000517 = 26.9874 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27992 @ 0.00051712 = 14.4752 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00051397 = 0.9765 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00051273 = 14.2539 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40050 @ 0.00050927 = 20.3963 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2050 @ 0.00050927 = 1.044 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9106 @ 0.00050259 = 4.5766 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3344 @ 0.00050171 = 1.6777 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: random owners of random abandoned/burried websites need to learn that if anyone asks "how much for the site" bs replies a la "we're open to offers" do not work.
mircea_popescu: there's fifty million just like them. there's maybe five people in the market. maybe.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 12.44999, Best ask: 12.45000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 12.44999, 24 hour volume: 22381.31642394, 24 hour low: 12.25000, 24 hour high: 12.45000, 24 hour vwap: 12.35589
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00050946 = 1.2227 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8022 @ 0.00051204 = 4.1076 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10422 @ 0.00050744 = 5.2885 BTC [-]
Namjies: [15:47] <mircea_popescu> random owners of random abandoned/burried websites need to learn that if anyone asks "how much for the site" bs replies a la "we're open to offers" do not work.
Namjies: No, they wait for that 500 000$ offer. They're still in the dotcom bubble.
Namjies: Basically, as soon as you inquire about a domain/website, be sure to receive a "feel free to offer" or a 50x inflated price.
Namjies: They'll try to milk you if they know you want it.
Namjies: If you're not offering top dollars, they'll wait for the next person to come around.
Namjies: Anyway, off for a bit again.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13428 @ 0.00050744 = 6.8139 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5199 @ 0.00050171 = 2.6084 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2345 @ 0.00050529 = 1.1849 BTC [+]
jurov: scaring the markets after several months hiatus :P
jurov: we'll see... made a buy and now it's complaining about actual price
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00050263 = 12.1636 BTC [-]
jurov: waiting for the gap to open
jurov: yeah, my code is bitchy.. like me xD
jurov: WARNI [__main__] Price 49307 is below last buy price 50529
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 755 @ 0.00050263 = 0.3795 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00051145 = 4.0405 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26745 @ 0.00051204 = 13.6945 BTC [+]
jurov: INFO [mpex.stat] new order:S S.MPOE, amount: 2345, price: 50495
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00050171 = 21.2725 BTC [-]
jurov: i allow for few satoshi loss
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30429 @ 0.00050171 = 15.2665 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22852 @ 0.00050119 = 11.4532 BTC [-]
Ukto: Namjies: did nefario not include his little custom identification "codes"/tokens per share holder in the yaml file he sent out? just email/payment_address/shares ?
Ukto: or anyone else know?
smickles: no shareholder info here yet for the two things i expect to get it for
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1629 @ 0.00316381 = 5.1538 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 4121 @ 0.00308319 = 12.7058 BTC [-]
Ukto: mircea_popescu: interesting.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2345 @ 0.00050495 = 1.1841 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17933 @ 0.00051204 = 9.1824 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10620 @ 0.00051438 = 5.4627 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46499 @ 0.00051508 = 23.9507 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051711 = 0.5171 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56508 @ 0.00051712 = 29.2214 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31450 @ 0.00051733 = 16.27 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56700 @ 0.00051741 = 29.3371 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051745 = 0.5175 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101966 @ 0.00051746 = 52.7633 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00051751 = 17.6471 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48850 @ 0.00051759 = 25.2843 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31580 @ 0.00051768 = 16.3483 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41499 @ 0.00051772 = 21.4849 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24359 @ 0.00051785 = 12.6143 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34992 @ 0.00051788 = 18.1217 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00051816 = 11.555 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82904 @ 0.00051848 = 42.9841 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13242 @ 0.00051853 = 6.8664 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27415 @ 0.00051857 = 14.2166 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33800 @ 0.00051858 = 17.528 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74842 @ 0.00051861 = 38.8138 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00051874 = 8.6111 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00051875 = 5.7063 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37550 @ 0.00051876 = 19.4794 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00051876 = 17.1969 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22666 @ 0.00051882 = 11.7596 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29790 @ 0.00051889 = 15.4577 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32600 @ 0.00051907 = 16.9217 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42900 @ 0.00051908 = 22.2685 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.00051929 = 14.2285 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34900 @ 0.00051938 = 18.1264 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30900 @ 0.00051964 = 16.0569 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18850 @ 0.00051966 = 9.7956 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00051976 = 3.6903 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14950 @ 0.00051978 = 7.7707 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32750 @ 0.00052022 = 17.0372 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41450 @ 0.00052025 = 21.5644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.00052033 = 11.9156 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57000 @ 0.0005205 = 29.6685 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7148 @ 0.00052059 = 3.7212 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00052063 = 5.9352 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17043 @ 0.00052066 = 8.8736 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.00052067 = 14.9432 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00052077 = 6.77 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38700 @ 0.00052078 = 20.1542 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00052082 = 13.1767 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41600 @ 0.00052087 = 21.6682 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.000521 = 8.2058 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.00052107 = 14.2773 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24715 @ 0.00052116 = 12.8805 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34000 @ 0.00052122 = 17.7215 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39548 @ 0.00052128 = 20.6156 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36000 @ 0.00052144 = 18.7718 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00052165 = 15.5713 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32557 @ 0.00052177 = 16.9873 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50450 @ 0.00052186 = 26.3278 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97366 @ 0.00052197 = 50.8221 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45350 @ 0.00052203 = 23.6741 BTC [+]
Ukto: smickles: See what you did?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.00052205 = 16.0269 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.0005221 = 5.0644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26315 @ 0.00052213 = 13.7399 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25225 @ 0.00052214 = 13.171 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31788 @ 0.00052217 = 16.5987 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14950 @ 0.00052245 = 7.8106 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13127 @ 0.00052249 = 6.8587 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48650 @ 0.00052286 = 25.4371 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30106 @ 0.00052287 = 15.7415 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36500 @ 0.00052298 = 19.0888 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35700 @ 0.00052298 = 18.6704 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21361 @ 0.00052319 = 11.1759 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37700 @ 0.0005232 = 19.7246 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23800 @ 0.00052322 = 12.4526 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37694 @ 0.00052349 = 19.7324 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00052352 = 9.5804 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25795 @ 0.00052359 = 13.506 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28450 @ 0.00052362 = 14.897 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00052362 = 2.3039 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9063 @ 0.00052377 = 4.7469 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7509 @ 0.00052391 = 3.934 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30750 @ 0.00052438 = 16.1247 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45800 @ 0.00052455 = 24.0244 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29250 @ 0.00052463 = 15.3454 BTC [+]
smickles: Ukto: i was talking about s.dice tho
Ukto: si? its still your fault. :P
dub: I like to draw them where I can
dub: Kato: Kurisu-san suggested we study different types of penises in order to create figure out the relative shape and size people would draw. We spent a week doing that before we realized that we should have been looking at drawings of penises rather than real-life pictures. (laughs) We were very embarrassed about that.
dub: Kurisu: My judgement on these types of situations is poor. (laughs)
mircea_popescu: you have got to be a total fuckwit to even attempt "moderating" penis doodles.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea what they do buyt i hope it fails miserably.
jurov: lmao, looks like barebackbot impromptu found a new mpex bug indeed xD
jurov: will send email shortly