Guest26114: any idea why this happens? its me mod6:
Guest26114: (14:18) [freenode] (!) Nick mod6 is temporarily unavailable
Guest26114: i re-auth'd with nickserv.. but i can't seem to /nick mod6 successfully
Guest26114: (14:22) -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- mod6 is not online.
Guest26114: ok, i'll just disconnect and reconnect.
Guest26114: i totally didn't even know I wasn't auth'd then boom
jurov: ;;rate mircea_popescu 4 "has coolest btc enterprise and is really helpful"
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 4 for user mircea_popescu has been recorded.
jurov: i completely forgot i didn't rate you yet
mod6: yeah, its all good. i forgot about the nickserv 'release' command
mod6: it was like, your 30 seconds are up mod6. *BLOOOOOP*
mod6: im glad some of us are good this irc thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19750 @ 0.00050281 = 9.9305 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126 @ 0.000503 = 0.0634 BTC [+]
mod6: i was like, "Ummmm"
mod6: RELEASE MY NICK?! WAIT DID SOMEONE TRY TO HAXoR ME?!
smickles: mircea_popescu: still no word from rg/grubles
mod6: err, nm... anyway. I also made a #BitOTTer channel for technical discussion
mod6: i figure, it'll keep my spam out of these trade channels :]
mod6: well, i've been workin on it quite a bit.
mod6: kinda not so ciked about the way this KeyStore thing is working out
mod6: or at least, its been a bit harder than I expected. i've done a bunch and it now creates a keystore (or loads an existing one)
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C120T] 2 @ 0.12 = 0.24 BTC [-]
mod6: basically takes a PublicKey and PrivateKey and stores them in a KeyPair object, when then can be used to create an X509 cert that can be then inserted and extracted from the KeyStore itself.
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P120T] 31 @ 0.09208812 = 2.8547 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3579 @ 0.000503 = 1.8002 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22072 @ 0.000503 = 11.1022 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2649 @ 0.00050303 = 1.3325 BTC [+]
mod6: anyway... its all technical stuff basically but... im having a hard time getting the private key back out for use
mod6: many examples show how to makes this work, but not anylonger because the main way to do this is now deprecated
mod6: lol, joke is on mod6
mod6: so... im kinda thinking, this is way to much effort for just a first release, can I not just use a symmetric key algo to enc the privkey on the local filestore?
mod6: then just decrypt into memory when needed, but never writing it to disk.
mod6: haha, see. its all good kakobreklaaa you don't need to worry.
mod6: just some technical bs about my bikeshed
mircea_popescu: anyone wants to bet there will be > 100 new btc/fiat exchange websites in 2013?
mircea_popescu: mod6 i guess you could, as long as the user knows about this.
mircea_popescu: heck, the original wallet.dat was plaintext for > 1 year.
jurov: mod6, bitcoinspinner does not encrypt the keys at all
mod6: right on. no matter what happens, I'll make sure the PrivateKey ring file will be protected
jurov: and upon pointed to it, Jan proposed to have two keys on paper backup and alternate them
mod6: jurov: hmm! i didn't know that. they really should be just to save a guy if his device gets stolen or hacked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12251 @ 0.00050303 = 6.1626 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21349 @ 0.00050304 = 10.7394 BTC [+]
mod6: I wanna make sure that if anyone uses BitOTTer that they know their key they put on the device is safe at lesat if the device is stolen or hacked
jurov: i started to be interested cause my phone got back from warranty prepair with completely replaced mobo
mod6: i have a screen now where the user goes in and sets the private key for the KeyStore, etc. but now I think I'm just gonna make that be the symmetric key for like AES or something
mod6: i've already got a java one written actually. heck, its even open source.
mod6: everything will be well documented in BitOTTer so the users will know what they are setting and what stuff means in the application
mod6: this will take some time, but I want to get this into the hands of a few people who'd like to test it before the end of the year.
mod6: its really getting close. i don't wanna let this damn keystore hold me back when I can just use something else.
mod6: anyway guys, I gotta run along to something else quick. i'll try to save the elaborations on that for #BitOTTer in the future. thx.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16901 @ 0.00050304 = 8.5019 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34556 @ 0.00050312 = 17.3858 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <jurov> and upon pointed to it, Jan proposed to have two keys on paper backup and alternate them << lol that one's good
mod6: ok. to be a bit more spacific, and the documentation will reflect this... i'll encrypt the private key on the local file store.
mod6: the users PGP PublicKey and MPEx PublicKey can stay as they are. no need to do anything with those at all.
mod6: the code can read them in either keyring format or ascii armor'd output format
mod6: yeah, im not sure whatever Jan or whomever was talking about. just want to be clear about that I'm doing :)
mod6: hmmm... well, this wont be a 6 digit pin like that
mod6: what I was thinking about using is currently a class that implements 256bit AES
mod6: use that... maybe in a future release i can get the keystore thing working better, or change it so the user might be able to select from a variety of different algos to use
jurov: you want to improve over gpg passphrase? how?
mod6: huh? i think we misunderstand eachother
mod6: i don't want to replace the gpg passphrase... im saying that the user can set a seperate passphrase to encrypt the unencrypted privatekey file on the filestore
jurov: you may find useful to look into KeePass code than
mod6: then when the user goes to trade, they'll need to enter their passphrase to decrypt the encrypted private key stored on the file system so the application can decipher the return tx statements from mpex
mircea_popescu: jurov i think maybe what he means is, have a sluttysally and a properpolly code.
mircea_popescu: you usually keep the slut loaded, but periodically load the safe one and move coins there
mod6: im using spongy castle to read in the PGP keys, I then have to convert them to be able to use them outside of its context, it gets hairy
mod6: yeah, in this situation that im setting up for the user, the user will have to do this: 1) copy the 3 pgp keys onto the device
mod6: 2) start BitOTTer and enter the path's to the keys.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16838 @ 0.00050312 = 8.4715 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18162 @ 0.00050313 = 9.1378 BTC [+]
mod6: 3) set the seperate password for the private key
mod6: 3a) encrypt private key and save output to localfile store
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22238 @ 0.00050313 = 11.1886 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9712 @ 0.00050314 = 4.8865 BTC [+]
mod6: 4) notify the user to delete unencrypted private key file
mod6: or the user could do it if so desired
mod6: i could write that in also... anyway. then the key will be safe... at least it'll be encrypted if the device is hacked/stolen
jurov: that means two mpex accts?
mod6: and then you can say, "THANKS MOD6!" instead of "FUUUUUUUUU MOD6!"
mod6: nope. just your 1 regular account.
jurov: what? we're talking about bitotter now, no?
mod6: currently to trade @ mpex you must be able to clearsign,and enrypt a message - decryption is helpful too!! - this requires the 3 keys I was talking about
mircea_popescu: anyway, mod6 : all this effort is not misplaced. I expect as bitcoins catch momentum that iphones/etc will be stolen for the btc content, much like wallets today
mod6: oh for sure. it'll be risky to probably keep any large amts on a mobile device
mod6: and your MPEx private key should be vastly important to you -- so trying to give the user a layer of extra protection
mod6: what i have code for now, and was trying to make work successfully was getting these three keys into a KeyStore for use as needed
mod6: but... hitting some issues with getting the private key back out -- hopefully I can whip up something different.
mod6: then put out that alpha release I've been talking about for forever. once that happens, I can get some feed back from all the users and make good changes based upon feeback
jurov: yes, i appreciate that effort too
mod6: its been a lot of fun coding it.
jurov: and do you have some business model, too?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3618 @ 0.00050314 = 1.8204 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14732 @ 0.00050315 = 7.4124 BTC [+]
jurov: like, paid app with some extras
mod6: Well, I had been wrestling with this for a while, but what I thought would be a good idea was if people use me for the referal program at MPEx, they can get BitOTTer to download and also save some on the MPEx registration as I'll kick them back 2.5 BTC
mod6: at least that was what was planned a while ago. I want to kinda get a alpha/beta program going
jurov: of course, but it's necessary to collect ideas. i'd also suggest scripting ability for paid version
mod6: sounds neat, but i'm not sure how you mean.
mod6: like atomated trades?
mod6: I see... very exciting feature to be implemented for sure.
mod6: I plan to add charting and graphing and all kinds of neato stuff actually.
mod6: I honestly hope to turn BitOTTer into a fulltime thing if all goes well.
jurov: or at least periodic fetching of new transactions and notifying the user
mod6: im so excited for the JSONSTAT cmd, thats the only other thing I need to implement really.
mod6: just a screen that displays the results from that
mod6: and then we have a first release. much more to go from there, but it'll allow a user to trade, send commands and see the VWAP and Depth
mod6: i'll be stoked to use it from the car, or wherever. have you ever seen an MPEx trade fly by on twitter and wish you were home to but in a bid? lol
mod6: thanks for your input jurov
mod6: i'm gonna run and grab some foodz0r
jurov: you're welcome. while i just login to coinbr and do stuff, having app would be nice.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00050309 = 9.8606 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: mod6 in principle having a programmable bot with preset and also configurable strategies could be a nice add-on
mod6: sure..i see what you're getting at. these are great things, looking forward to talking about that more as the time comes.
mircea_popescu: just letting you know that you're gonna be working on this well into 2015 lol
mod6: haha, thats awesome.
jurov: hehe yes.. and don't let your gpg keys expire :P
mod6: haha, i set mine to expire in ...
mod6: haha, i'll have to change the expiration or whatever, no big deal
mod6: i guess in the past i've had other pgp keys, i think they just expired and I made new ones...
mod6: oh ok, I'll just have to make a new acct then.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00050309 = 2.3645 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17068 @ 0.00050315 = 8.5878 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30650 @ 0.0005032 = 15.4231 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16612 @ 0.00050329 = 8.3607 BTC [+]
jurov: 50btc for a new acct may be a worry for some people
jurov: but not for us by 2014. i wholeheartedly agree.
mod6: yeah, mine expires in august of 2014
mod6: yeah, to be honest, i actually meant to make a new one like 50x before it went up to 30.
mod6: i just haven't because i guess i didn't wanna step on my own toes.
mod6: but my lazyness has cost me 1bn satoshi's
mod6: DONT LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU, SIGN UP NAO
mod6: i better get one tonight and heed my own advice.
mod6: mircea_popescu: don't raise it before later tonight lol
mod6: ok cool. im gonna get some food. bbl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17388 @ 0.00050329 = 8.7512 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12512 @ 0.00050334 = 6.2978 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1660 @ 0.00050334 = 0.8355 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29314 @ 0.00050348 = 14.759 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: offered in july 2011 for 100 btc, still for sale in nov 2012 for... 100btc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2686 @ 0.00050348 = 1.3523 BTC [+]
Namjies: mircea_popescu, read my earlier comment?
Namjies: [12:53] <Namjies> So... apparently, nefario started to send out asset lists...
Namjies: [12:57] <Namjies> Mircea, you might actually have to find someone to buy ASICMINER shares from.
Diablo-D3: friedcat wants to setup an exchange just for his assets
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8014 @ 0.00050348 = 4.0349 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12086 @ 0.00050347 = 6.0849 BTC [-]
Namjies: If shares don't start being traded between people/on an exchange again, I was kissing goodbye to over 1000 Asicminer shares
Diablo-D3: the shares dont go away because you cant trade them
Diablo-D3: no I mean friedcat is already honoring them even without the lists
Namjies: I had a contract with Mircea, he borrowed shares
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 this is about a private deal, not much to do with friedcat really.
Diablo-D3: oh, so you two just fucked shit up? lol.
Namjies: No, the deal said should shares no longer be tradeable, a token payment of 1 BTC would be offered.
Namjies: It was a clause in the contract.
Namjies: Would you like to debate the point right away Mircea?
Diablo-D3: I think you have to wait to see what friedcat is going to do first
mircea_popescu: what's to debate ? just pointed out what the contract said.
Diablo-D3: okay so, did friedcat do preorders for his shit? or is he just selling them straight?
Diablo-D3: yes, like bfl and basic and avalon has
Namjies: Did he sell the whole 20000 shares to get 200k?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13854 @ 0.00050347 = 6.9751 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: Im talking the actual mining units
Diablo-D3: yes, just not as a full time thing for the first batch
Namjies: It's a mix. Self-mining and selling units.
Namjies: ASICMINER shares get their .10 paid in dividends in full first from all profits.
Diablo-D3: but Im still interested in buying units
Namjies: Then it's shared. I don't remember what percentage of the profits the shares actually represent.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00050344 = 6.3182 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00050344 = 3.8261 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6805 @ 0.00050344 = 3.4259 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6395 @ 0.00050355 = 3.2202 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00050355 = 10.4235 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9255 @ 0.00050355 = 4.6604 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5395 @ 0.00050362 = 2.717 BTC [+]
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: not just pies in face, the SEC are after him
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35555 @ 0.00050362 = 17.9062 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11083 @ 0.00050362 = 5.5816 BTC [+]
smickles: lol, 3rd most view page on my blog... /xmlrpc.php
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: I actually have an interview with the SEC folks coming up next week, I offered to give them any info I have
mircea_popescu: you don't just get pies in the face, you get pies in the ass too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2917 @ 0.00050362 = 1.4691 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00050365 = 6.3208 BTC [+]
Azelphur: math question, if I'm arbitrating bitcoins, and I have a database with all my trades in it (buy and sell) how do I calculate my profits? is it the difference between average rate * total amount on buy and sell orders?
mircea_popescu: balance of your btc position start and end + balance of your fiat position start and end
mircea_popescu: - all you paid for btc added together + all you were paid for btc added togheter
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27331 @ 0.00050372 = 13.7672 BTC [+]
Azelphur: I don't keep business accounts separate from personal, so that ain't gonna work :P
Azelphur: yea, that's what I was planning on doing
Azelphur: sum(sell_rate)/num(sell_rate) * sell_total_amount - sum(buy_rate)/num(buy_rate) * buy_total_amount
Azelphur: was what I was thinking would yield the answer :P
mircea_popescu: (sum(sell_rate)/num(sell_rate) - sum(buy_rate)/num) * min (buy, sell ammts)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00050372 = 5.4905 BTC [+]
MrTiggr: its only microwave invisibility though isnt it ? not visible spectrum ... and only centimetre or less sized items
MrTiggr: if thats the same article i read ;)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8382 @ 0.00050372 = 4.2222 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8568 @ 0.0005038 = 4.3166 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37100 @ 0.0005038 = 18.691 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.0005038 = 6.7761 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 982 @ 0.0005038 = 0.4947 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27988 @ 0.00050382 = 14.1009 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4882 @ 0.00050397 = 2.4604 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5237 @ 0.00050397 = 2.6393 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00050398 = 4.3846 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13513 @ 0.00050399 = 6.8104 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22287 @ 0.00050399 = 11.2324 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14745 @ 0.00050399 = 7.4313 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17335 @ 0.00050399 = 8.7367 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22346 @ 0.00050399 = 11.2622 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7704 @ 0.00050404 = 3.8831 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00050367 = 8.7639 BTC [-]
smickles: mircea_popescu: huh, it must do one automatically, and the
https i have set up is just for me
smickles: so i don't broadcast my password in the clear
smickles: i sent a track back manually, prolly the
https one, i'll refrain in the future ;)
mircea_popescu: hehe it's not signed in any way, it's just a trackback that links to a
https address
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15731 @ 0.00050401 = 7.9286 BTC [+]
smickles: mircea_popescu: i can sign and send you the cert to import if you are actually concerned about the state of
https on my blog ;)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34787 @ 0.00050392 = 17.5299 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14713 @ 0.00050394 = 7.4145 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2927 @ 0.00050394 = 1.475 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11823 @ 0.00050401 = 5.9589 BTC [+]
smickles: not yet, but front page already
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20896 @ 0.00050401 = 10.5318 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3154 @ 0.00050404 = 1.5897 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10792 @ 0.00050404 = 5.4396 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7108 @ 0.00050405 = 3.5828 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1133 @ 0.00050367 = 0.5707 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22367 @ 0.00050349 = 11.2616 BTC [-]
smickles: too bad it didn't come much earlier
smickles: it would've been a lot less drama and bullshit
smickles: and I don't understand the limit of 3-4 per day
smickles: also, his metric for 'largest assets' is probably wonked
Azelphur: true, but at 3-4 a day you can't be too far down the list
Azelphur: there isn't exactly that many assets
smickles: Azelphur: actually, if he's using the same sort that he used to display the full asset list, it'll be well over a week till us
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00050401 = 7.1065 BTC [+]
jurov: Diablo-D3, i like bitstamp
jurov: did not collect statically significant data on reliability, tho :P
mircea_popescu: jurov seems pretty much everyone likes bitstamp, unless they fuck up they'll be #2 in short order.
jurov: *statistically [derp]
mircea_popescu: the problem i think is if each trilema article ends up there they'll prolly ban me or something
jurov: hehe... no reason to. Unless all articles were submitted by the same user, which isn't the case.
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 how many glbse assets you figure will get 0 claims ?
mircea_popescu: as in, nobody of the people who sent email of w/e had any shares in them
Diablo-D3: btw, is this when I cut off valid claims?
Diablo-D3: like, when I get the list, is that the final defacto list and if you're not on it you're boned?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23427 @ 0.00050449 = 11.8187 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i dunno what to say. if you get the list, someone not on it throws a shitfit and claims nefario made a mistake i literally do not know what i'd do.
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's one of those things gigavps is paying counsel for.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3323 @ 0.00050449 = 1.6764 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32350 @ 0.00050454 = 16.3219 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00050473 = 5.0473 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9537 @ 0.00050484 = 4.8147 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: yeah, I dont know what to do either
Diablo-D3: because I hired nefario to do a job
Diablo-D3: and then everyone jumped up my ass on the thread because I said exactly that
Diablo-D3: the contract with glbse was between dmc and glbse, he was paid x btc to register the asset.
Diablo-D3: the moment he closed doors he was in default of that contract
mircea_popescu: it's not clear what exactly the contract was, but probably what you say can be claimed as an implicit agreement
mircea_popescu: it'd be a duty of care / fiduciary breach not a contract breach
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.000505 = 6.0095 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3734 @ 0.00050507 = 1.8859 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9316 @ 0.0005051 = 4.7055 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: same difference in the end
Diablo-D3: and I cant sue him because DMC just doesnt have the resources for that
Diablo-D3: Im glad giga scared him straight, none of the rest of us have the money for it
mircea_popescu: tbh : he as far as we know gave "sort-of" a list to giga
mircea_popescu: this may all be premature. not saying it is, just... you know, nefario.
Diablo-D3: I wonder if I should just go start dmc 2.0 and try again
Diablo-D3: just let the dmc 1.0 shit sit in a seperate legal container all by itself
Diablo-D3: like, they say when doing the tech startup game, you're supposed to get right back on the horse
mircea_popescu: i guess the bar to attract finance has raised considerably
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16234 @ 0.0005051 = 8.1998 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31151 @ 0.0005051 = 15.7344 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7592 @ 0.00050511 = 3.8348 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: I dont think I want shareholders this time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6540 @ 0.00050492 = 3.3022 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00050412 = 12.7542 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00050405 = 7.9136 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17575 @ 0.00050401 = 8.858 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22783 @ 0.00050377 = 11.4774 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5665 @ 0.0005037 = 2.8535 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33750 @ 0.00050347 = 16.9921 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00050341 = 7.4001 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7987 @ 0.0005032 = 4.0191 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: well, whats wrong with doing bonds with maturity dates like 5 years from now?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.00050511 = 10.4305 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: like, people buy them, I send them a pgp signed blob
Diablo-D3: and then they can sell them to other people if they want
Diablo-D3: and whoever has them by the date of maturity can send them back to me for payment
Diablo-D3: no need for an exchange in any real sense
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: so Im thinking a non-callable zero-coupon bond
mircea_popescu: what sense does that make ? he who sent the blob can still claim on it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24658 @ 0.00050511 = 12.455 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19292 @ 0.0005052 = 9.7463 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: yeah, but they'd need to also pgp sign it notating who it was sent to
mircea_popescu: that'll be fun, if one blob makes it through 50-100 people.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29529 @ 0.00050432 = 14.8921 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18371 @ 0.0005032 = 9.2443 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: you'd sign the signed message to do it
Diablo-D3: so I'd just write a sh script that just keeps running pgp over and over
mircea_popescu: kinda makes it hard for the 50th user to see if the thing he's being sold is valid.
Diablo-D3: I'd just put a page up somewhere that does it
Diablo-D3: upload your text file, it recursively pgps
kakobreklaaa: i know im safe as long nobody is going after them
Diablo-D3: actually, I wonder if pgp already can recursively check
kakobreklaaa: if someone sticks a nose in and tries to tax em or whatever simmilar
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1742 @ 0.0005032 = 0.8766 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5960 @ 0.00050307 = 2.9983 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22898 @ 0.00050307 = 11.5193 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: yeah, I dont think I have to worry about legal regulations on issuing these bonds
Diablo-D3: its up to the bond holder to report his taxes, right?
kakobreklaaa: remember, i was at that connference in slovenia
Diablo-D3: you do pass through shit on mpex right?
Diablo-D3: well like, what would stop you from buying, say, 50 thousand bonds, and then issuing 50 thousand shares of passthrough?
Diablo-D3: well, would it be a viable way of doing this
Diablo-D3: multiple exchanges could trade the bonds as passthrough shares
Diablo-D3: so no need to do massive pgp chains since they'd never exit the exchange
jurov: whole pgp chain thing has one problem, i can send the same bonds properly signed to two different people
jurov: how do they verify no one other has them?
jurov: moving to that exchange level doesn't really solve that. the exchanges must trust each other anyway
Diablo-D3: well, the exchanges probably wouldnt buy or sell them beyond the initial asset creation
jurov: "probably"... even if they are honest, what if clients want to do arbitrage?
jurov: orly? you say that like we exhausted all options, that is not the case. you can look into opentransactions or colored coins maybe.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19508 @ 0.0005052 = 9.8554 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18795 @ 0.00050531 = 9.4973 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22100 @ 0.00050542 = 11.1698 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24426 @ 0.00050542 = 12.3454 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: I wonder if you COULD do a bitcoin chain that does bonds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21183 @ 0.00050542 = 10.7063 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00050561 = 6.9774 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7843 @ 0.00050996 = 3.9996 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31215 @ 0.00051319 = 16.0192 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4220 @ 0.00051319 = 2.1657 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 909 @ 0.00051143 = 0.4649 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41100 @ 0.00050367 = 20.7008 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9155 @ 0.00050307 = 4.6056 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00051 = 4.284 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00050604 = 7.5147 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43000 @ 0.00051 = 21.93 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00050604 = 6.0725 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7306 @ 0.00050371 = 3.6801 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12576 @ 0.00050307 = 6.3266 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6380 @ 0.00050307 = 3.2096 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19270 @ 0.00050303 = 9.6934 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26859 @ 0.00050303 = 13.5109 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8841 @ 0.0005027 = 4.4444 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00050526 = 4.7494 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32450 @ 0.00051 = 16.5495 BTC [+]
JWU42: does he really have this much free time on his hands?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11234 @ 0.0005027 = 5.6473 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7375 @ 0.0005027 = 3.7074 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18125 @ 0.00050234 = 9.1049 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20800 @ 0.00050234 = 10.4487 BTC [-]
jcpham: OH SHIT THIS CHANNEL STILL EXISTS>
jcpham: what exactly is a bitcoin asset these days
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20800 @ 0.00050349 = 10.4726 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1day: 0.00050234 / 0.00050439 / 0.00051319 (3404908 shares, 1,717.41 BTC), 30day: 0.00042823 / 0.00048447 / 0.00051331 (60966128 shares, 29,536.68 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX:S.BVPS] 1day: 0.00280004 / 0.00280004 / 0.00280004 (3300 shares, 9.24 BTC), 30day: 0.002 / 0.00230086 / 0.0032491 (38016 shares, 87.47 BTC)
mod6: i found this old starman script for BitchX that only rg could run anymore lol
mod6: did he ever turn up?
mod6: ;;tell rg i've got a starman for you
mod6: ;;later tell rg i've got a starman for you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51690 @ 0.00050625 = 26.1681 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00050758 = 8.4258 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7850 @ 0.00051 = 4.0035 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4860 @ 0.00050662 = 2.4622 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7631 @ 0.00050488 = 3.8527 BTC [-]
smickles: ;;calc (13,445 - 8,203 - 2,071 - 402) / 100,000,000 / 0.00339922
gribble: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
smickles: ;;calc (13445 - 8203 - 2071 - 402) / 100000000 / 0.00339922
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31009 @ 0.00050488 = 15.6558 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2026 @ 0.00051 = 1.0333 BTC [+]
jurov: smickles, what about mpoe shareholders?
jurov: i suspect we're in a very nice surprise :p
smickles: jurov: oh? yeah, not that I have a good grasp on the situation (i've just casually paid attention), but so long as the exchange rate doesn't go above 13.3 (or something like that) mpoe should have a good dividend. but i could be entirely wrong :D
jurov: so really nobody's watching mircea closely?
smickles: jurov: I'd have to setup a script to monitor things, I've only been noticing the large orders and haven't done an exact calculation. But it would be limited by the fact that it would be difficult to distinguish mircea_popescu's bot, from other's adding liquidity
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00051 = 8.7975 BTC [+]
jurov: smickles, you wanted to set up your own bot, so i guessed you'd have some grasp
smickles: jurov: i'm working on that bot still, i'll probably launch it afther this coming last friday (when i have more capital to work with ;)
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 11.70101, Best ask: 11.73969, Bid-ask spread: 0.03868, Last trade: 11.70101, 24 hour volume: 20219.34455426, 24 hour low: 11.60241, 24 hour high: 11.78400, 24 hour vwap: 11.70969
smickles: i'm looking at a 17% gain at the current rates, c'mon stability!
jurov: similar here, although somwheat less.. now if someone could buy these C120T's
smickles: heh, didj'a lower you price yet?
jurov: what price do you consider acceptable?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00051 = 10.2 BTC [+]
smickles: jurov: heh, my spreadsheet is telling me 0.02040816
smickles: i expect that's lower than mircea's bot
jurov: C110T sells at 0.25, C130T at 0.06.. market
jurov: is thinking differently
jurov: mircea's bot gave up on these :p
smickles: giving btc to a bot feels like playing with fire
kakobrekla: speaking of bots, im just backtesting freshly baked robot based on kalman filters
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35700 @ 0.00051 = 18.207 BTC [+]
smickles: kakobrekla: do you have a db of mpex trades?
smickles: I've been meaning to setup a good one for myself, and was wondering how far back the twiter feed goes
jurov: smickles, i have db since start of november
jurov: and python rss reader that updates it also, i don't trust twatter for this
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41300 @ 0.00051 = 21.063 BTC [+]
Namjies: I got the list of assets for BTC-Mining
Namjies: Check the list and see if you are included. Only the first 3 characters of email and BTC address are included
Namjies: There's 475 unclaimed shares so far on 2369 shares sold.
gigavps: anything exciting happening?
Namjies: It seems nefario is sending further asset lists
Namjies: I just received the one for BTC-Mining
Azelphur: gigavps: you got your asset list? :D
gigavps: i have received a partial list
Namjies: I'm missing 1/5th of shares to be claimed.
gigavps: can't wait till people start to make claims and aren't on the list
Azelphur: I guess the missing ones are from people who refused to give info?
Namjies: Odd that I'm not on your list Gigavps. My list contains my address and my email
Namjies: Ah, would 18CoGAeLJzwG3iLkBj1vARYDWW7eC7qUQ1 be included this time?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00050811 = 9.3492 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27150 @ 0.00050629 = 13.7458 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2850 @ 0.00050488 = 1.4389 BTC [-]
gigavps: that i have yet to hear a solid way to solve it
Namjies: My list seems to be accurate and contain users I was expecting to hold the amount of shares shown
Namjies: I recognize a few bitcointalk.org users too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00050488 = 6.311 BTC [-]
jurov: wasn't email required to glbse registration?
Namjies: and a rock with multiple pairs of eyes glowing from the darkness under labeled "issuers" could be seen somewhere in Bitcoinland.
Namjies: Aye, but my shares amount was public
Namjies: on the BTC-BOND spreadsheet
Namjies: I think the 300 shares is also guessable. I believe that's usagi which had that amount in his spreadsheet for BMF.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22935 @ 0.00050845 = 11.6613 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56780 @ 0.00051 = 28.9578 BTC [+]
JWU42: gigavps: I am finding gaps in what I received from GLBSe versus user submitted claims to me
JWU42: of primary concern are submitted claims from people i would trust
JWU42: and no reference in the GLBSE data
Namjies: How many shares did you have?
gribble: Current Blocks: 208949 | Current Difficulty: 3368767.1405329 | Next Difficulty At Block: 209663 | Next Difficulty In: 714 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 22 hours, 12 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3374381.13210326 | Estimated Percent Change: 0.166648252496
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00050488 = 8.9364 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00050349 = 3.1216 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13125 @ 0.00050234 = 6.5932 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5475 @ 0.00050228 = 2.75 BTC [-]
JWU42: YABMC has 54,278 outstanding
smickles: midnightmagic: heh, why the poke to 'em?
JWU42: ahh - sorry - missed you were speaking with Diablo-D3
Namjies: Well there's 1/5th of shares unclaimed.
Namjies: It's a surprisingly large amount
Namjies: So I guess the list are partial.
Diablo-D3: Azelphur: what tablet is that? a nexus 7?
Diablo-D3: Azelphur: I find it ironic they went with the phone ui on that
Azelphur: Diablo-D3: and here I was thinking you'd ask about the hat
Azelphur: yea, it is odd, there's builds of cyanogenmod with tablet mode enabled
Azelphur: I know, I was just reminding you how much you love ubuntu :P
Diablo-D3: I can do either phone ui or tablet ui on my kindle fire
Diablo-D3: phone ui just doesnt work with a screen that big
Azelphur: still, cyanogenmod fixes all the things
Diablo-D3: its hard to hit centered buttons in landscape mode, and having to drag down half the fucking screen to get notifications sucks
Diablo-D3: tablet ui + forced tablet ui in apps == delicious
Namjies: And you are 100% no shares were sold before GLBSE's closure and that the box agreeing to share info was ticked?
Diablo-D3: Namjies: yes, I had no sell orders up for assets
Diablo-D3: Namjies: and I was emailed by glbse saying whatever
Namjies: Okay. Well I'll try to at least get confirmation for most of the rest of the list.
Namjies: Can you PM me your email and BTC address used? I'll keep track of external claims.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00051 = 8.2875 BTC [+]
Namjies: I suspect that 1/3 are mostly holding a few shares. Most big accounts seems to have claimed.
Namjies: They might claim in the following few months tho
Namjies: Not sure how long Nefario will accept claims.
Namjies: Ah, could it be it? Have you received a double payment that was not returned, Diablo-D3?
smickles: i bet nefario could easily claim that
smickles: and peeps wouldn't have recourse
Diablo-D3: smickles: no, because we can just look at addresses on block explorer
smickles: Diablo-D3: he could just use any address which was sent a payment in that timeframe and still has funds at it
Namjies: We can hardly check if your GLBSE payment existed/was doubled/was repaid.
Diablo-D3: Namjies: true, but then hes going to have to falsify asset lists
smickles: or even if it does't have funds at it too
Diablo-D3: seeing as the money he sent me was the entire balance of DIBFLSC
smickles: Diablo-D3: point is, witholding shareholder data for that reason is bad
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43250 @ 0.00051 = 22.0575 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: Namjies, smickles: I dont like the fact I havent gotten lists for dmc or dibflsc
smickles: i haven't gotten lists for s²cm or mpoe etf yet :(
smickles: I haven't received the s²cm btceither
Namjies: he said he'd send a few lists daily
Namjies: Can you confirm you're on my BTC-MINING lists?
Namjies: match the BTC-Mining shares BMF held if I'm not mistaken
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00051 = 3.06 BTC [+]
smickles: kakobrekla: with that algo, after you run the backtest, is the error estimate really fricken' low?
kakobrekla: smickles the filter is used to trigger trading decision delivered from an input which in currently is velocity
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5325 @ 0.00050228 = 2.6746 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00050213 = 11.2979 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17565 @ 0.00050181 = 8.8143 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00051 = 9.333 BTC [+]
dub: this was momentarily confusing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44900 @ 0.00050315 = 22.5914 BTC [-]
EskimoBob: usagi, what is your fkn problem? are all shares accounted for (have a known owner)?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10955 @ 0.00050315 = 5.512 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13045 @ 0.00050268 = 6.5575 BTC [-]
Namjies: What is the issue EskimoBob?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2755 @ 0.00050268 = 1.3849 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2485 @ 0.00050181 = 1.247 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36750 @ 0.00050138 = 18.4257 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4782 @ 0.00050094 = 2.3955 BTC [-]
Namjies: Well Usagi should know the lists are not complete
Namjies: and since he has unclaimed shares, you could have 9 in those.
EskimoBob: i sent a e-mail to nefario. Lets see if he answers. Maybe he sent me twice those pennies I had over there and I never noticed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7237 @ 0.00051 = 3.6909 BTC [+]
dub: you didn't use a clean wallet?
Namjies: If you looked at payment claims thread.
dub: would have thought it sensible with the rumours about nefario getting tipped out by the feds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38790 @ 0.0005082 = 19.7131 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9760 @ 0.00051 = 4.9776 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.0005036 = 5.7914 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.0005036 = 11.2806 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28738 @ 0.00050319 = 14.4607 BTC [-]